Date: Sun, 1 Aug 93 04:00:10 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #148 Kraftwerk Digest Sun, 1 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 148 Today's Topics: Synthesizer question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1993 22:03:12 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Synthesizer question To: kraftwerk Really-From: zerobeat@intacc.uucp (Ferenc Szabo) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu The Kork M1 is very unlikely used by Kraftwerk. The Mix is the only album that has come out since the M1 was introduced, and I don't hear anything that cries out: "I'm and M1!" The M1 is classified as a 'sample player/synth hybrid'. In other words, It'll give you lots of stock normalness like pianos, saxes, organs and trumpets (and drums), but it also contains a synth engine that isn't particularily versatile compared to most analog synths (and the Kurzweil K2000, a digital synth with a huge set of parameters rivaling most analogs......but not necessarily in the sound department) The best modern Korg synth is the WaveStation. Very interesting sounds. Very un-normal. If you are looking for a 'band in a box'; that is a box with drums, sequencer, effects, normal sounds, a dash of synth-likeness..................then the M1 is excellent for the price. It doesn't shine at any one particular duty though. If you already have the other things and you are simply looking for another sound source (and you have that certain aesthetic that one might have if they like Kraftwerk)..............then I would recommend the Wavestation or Oberheim Xpander (or Matrix 6 even) to name a couple of MIDI synths. I don't know anything about the Waldorf Wave or Microwave. Other excellent midi(able) analog synths are the Prophet 5, Jupiter 6 and MemoryMoog. A Midi-CV box would make most of those old analog monophonics compatible (not old Korg stuff though). f-erenc ************************************************************** * This message was sent from MATRIX ARTS BBS * * The views expressed in this posting are those of the individual author only. * ************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Tue, 3 Aug 93 04:00:13 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #149 Kraftwerk Digest Tue, 3 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 149 Today's Topics: Electric Cafe + Equipment (2 msgs) Kraftwerk's Politics Truckstop Gondoler/'Spirit of Sound' ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 14:09:17 +0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Electric Cafe + Equipment To: kraftwerk Really-From: Kevin Busby Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu I've only just joined this list, but have done my homework by reading up on the old digests. I hope people won't be bored if I briefly comment on a few old subjects. 'Electric Cafe' - there was discussion about the reason for this title. I think it must be a pun on the film 'Atomic Cafe', which compiled pieces of news footage and sundry silliness to attack the USA's nuclear defence policy. "L'age politique a l'age atomique"... I found D. A. C. Crowell's assessment of Kraftwerk's early equipment very interesting. I've compiled a list of the equipment they used in their 1981 tour, which I'll mail in the near future (unless it's already common knowledge?). Finally, I was glad to find out something about Die Dominas, *12 years* after hearing them on the radio!!! Regards Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 93 16:39:22 N From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Electric Cafe + Equipment To: kraftwerk Really-From: Rick Jansen Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu In message <199308021312.AA23766@cs.uwp.edu> you write: > Really-From: Kevin Busby > Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > > > I've only just joined this list, but have done my homework by reading > up on the old digests. I hope people won't be bored if I briefly comment > on a few old subjects. > > 'Electric Cafe' - there was discussion about the reason for this title. > I think it must be a pun on the film 'Atomic Cafe', which compiled pieces of > news footage and sundry silliness to attack the USA's nuclear defence policy. > "L'age politique a l'age atomique"... Nope. Man, Machine and Music sheds light: the title is from an old Marlene Dietrich film 'Cafe Electrique'. Rick Jansen -- rick@sara.nl She's a module and she's looking good ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1993 05:46:49 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Bruce_M._Lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu I've often wondered if the memebers of Kraftwerk subscribed to the Nazi, or skin-head movements now burgeoning in Germany. Being German people they must have confronted this,or may be dealing with it now. Has anyone heard anything about this? Or are they too busy with their music to worry about such things? bruce_lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 16:21:04 +0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Truckstop Gondoler/'Spirit of Sound' To: kraftwerk Really-From: Kevin Busby Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu I was very interested to read about 'Truckstop Gondoler' and the early days of Neu! and Kraftwerk. I was once told (by someone well up on Krautrock) that before Kraftwerk and before Organisation, Huetter and Schneider played together in a group called "Spirit of Sound". Unfortunately I can't find the original note I had, but I'm 99.9999% sure that the other name quoted in connection with the group was that of Michael Rother. Does anyone have any information about this? ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Wed, 4 Aug 93 04:00:11 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #150 Kraftwerk Digest Wed, 4 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 150 Today's Topics: Kraftwerk's Politics (5 msgs) Man Machine imagery (2 msgs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 03 Aug 93 13:20:53 N From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Rick Jansen Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu In message <199308030504.AA17753@cs.uwp.edu> you write: > Really-From: Bruce_M._Lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com > Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > > I've often wondered if the memebers of Kraftwerk subscribed to the Nazi, or > skin-head movements now burgeoning in Germany. Being German people they > must have confronted this,or may be dealing with it now. > > Has anyone heard anything about this? Or are they too busy with their > music to worry about such things? I think you are a very silly person, not to say plainly stupid. Rick Jansen -- rick@sara.nl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 09:23:43 -0600 (MDT) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Lazlo Nibble Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >> I've often wondered if the memebers of Kraftwerk subscribed to the Nazi, >> or skin-head movements now burgeoning in Germany. Being German people >> they must have confronted this,or may be dealing with it now. > > I think you are a very silly person, not to say plainly stupid. There's nothing stupid or silly about the question, though it's more than a little inflammatory. The German predeliction for insular nationalism never went away after the war -- it was merely supressed, and is only starting to surface again recently now that the external pressure from the cold war is off and the internal pressures from reunification are building. My (German-born, raised during WWII) mother returned from a visit with her remaining family there earlier this summer full of horror stories to tell about the hatred that's bubbling just under the surface. KW have embraced fascist imagery in the past (cf. Man-Machine). It's not completely out of the realm of possibility that some of the band's members are nationalists. By pretending that this is too horrible a possibility to even consider, you are simply clearing space for it to happen all over again. -- Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Aug 93 17:32:11 N From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Rick Jansen Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Just to put an immediate end to this discussion: Man Machine and Music quotes Huetter as to maybe write some songs about the mixing of the different cultures in present day Europe. In the good sense of the word that is. I'm really somewhat disgusted about the first message. Rick Jansen -- rick@sara.nl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 93 17:51:06 BST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: rj_ingra@hal.uwe-bristol.ac.uk (Ingram) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >In message <199308030504.AA17753@cs.uwp.edu> you write: >> Really-From: Bruce_M._Lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com >> Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >> >> I've often wondered if the memebers of Kraftwerk subscribed to the Nazi, or >> skin-head movements now burgeoning in Germany. Being German people they >> must have confronted this,or may be dealing with it now. >> >> Has anyone heard anything about this? Or are they too busy with their >> music to worry about such things? > >I think you are a very silly person, not to say plainly stupid. > >Rick Jansen >-- >rick@sara.nl Here here quite agree ! Rich, rj_ingra@btc.uwe.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1993 07:08:37 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: zerobeat@intacc.uucp (Ferenc Szabo) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu To all those who are flaming Bruce Lloyd for simply asking the question: Don't you think it would feel good to simply answer "no" to his question? It's obvious that some people out there might wonder about KW's politics simply because of their uniformist dressing style and the fact that they are German. Yes I agree that assuming that they are somehow facist shows a great deal of misunderstanding, but don't you think that an intelligent reply which might educate others reading would be the best way to go? Don't assume that everybody out there knows Ralf Hutter's underwear size and where Florian Schneider buys his bagels. In other words, not everybody has intimate knowledge of ALL THINGS KW. To many people, KW is some great band from Europe doing amazing music......and that's all. To quote Lazlo Nibble: >"By pretending that this is too horrible a possibility to even consider, you are simply clearing space for it to happen all over again." f-erenc #******************************************************************************* #This message was sent from MATRIX ARTS BBS * #The views expressed in this posting are those of the individual author only. * #******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Aug 93 13:17:42 EDT From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Man Machine imagery To: kraftwerk Really-From: Eric Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu On Tue, 3 Aug 1993 09:23:43 -0600 (MDT) Lazlo said: ... >KW have embraced fascist imagery in the past (cf. Man-Machine). It's not I've been studying up on El Lissitzky ever since my last diatribe on Russian constructivism. Now's as good a time as any for an update... For a start, the imagery on the original (ie not the Cema re-release) of Man-Machine has very little to do with the Nazi-sponsored art of WWII-era Germany. Nazi art was schmaltzy idealised "realism". (For more on the subject of what kind of art the Nazis supported and condemned, I recommend the film "Architecture of Doom", still making the rounds in US alternative film circles.) The art of El Lissitzky would've been condemned as "Bolshevik". In fact the Bauhaus (where Lissitzky taught after leaving Russia) was, for all practical purposes, shut down by the Nazis during WWII. The color scheme of red, black and white, was appropriated from revolutionary Russia. The red was for the blood of the workers; the white for the flesh of the workers; the black for....I don't know--the hair of the workers??? ;-) The Nazi flag with the bold central swatika bears more than a passing resemblence to the earlier communist flag with the large red star. The nazis appropriated many things from many sources, after all if it worked for someone else... And I hope everyone knows that the swastika itself is an ancient symbol which was certainly not invented by Hitler. That leaves us with the 4 uniformally dressed and lipsticked men. Again, not the sort of imagery that the SS would approve of. At least not in public--who knows what sort of bizzare cabaret entertainment they might have frequented out of the public eye? :) The uniformality could be interpreted as having some fascistic connotations, but it could just as easily stand for the selflessness of the workers, or the selflessness of the Kraftwerkers with their machine-like lack of indivisual personalites (as they might have us believe). Just my $0.02 :) --Eric "Now is the time on the Kraftwerk list when we dance! Auf Wiedersehen!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 12:02:42 -0600 (MDT) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Man Machine imagery To: kraftwerk Really-From: Lazlo Nibble Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >> KW have embraced fascist imagery in the past (cf. Man-Machine). > > the imagery on the original (ie not the Cema re-release) of Man-Machine > has very little to do with the Nazi-sponsored art of WWII-era Germany. The fact that there's no real ethnographic link between the two doesn't change the fact there there is a strong surface similarity; people will make the connection no matter what the true origins of the style were. -- Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu) ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Thu, 5 Aug 93 04:00:11 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #151 Kraftwerk Digest Thu, 5 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 151 Today's Topics: Imagery, etc. (2 msgs) Kraftwerk's Politics Kraftwerk Digest V1 #150 (2 msgs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 14:27:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Imagery, etc. To: kraftwerk Really-From: Michael D. Lyons Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > > I've often wondered if the members of Kraftwerk subscribed to the Nazi, or > > skin-head movements now burgeoning in Germany. Being German people they > > must have confronted this,or may be dealing with it now. > > > > Has anyone heard anything about this? Or are they too busy with their > > music to worry about such things? > > I think you are a very silly person, not to say plainly stupid. The question wasn't *that* stupid, but maybe it was formulated somewhat poorly. There are, apparently, more than a few skins and their ilk that get into Kraftwerk. I saw quite a few of them lurking around at the Kraftwerk concert in Osnabrueck this year, and at the gig in Muenchen in 1991. The musicians themselves seem to be normal though. I talked to Florian Schneider and he was pretty cool. This, taken with the fact that I'm an African- American, makes it doubtful that F.S. is a Nazi. As far as KW's imagery and style goes, there are quite a few neo- and pseudo-fascist bands that claim to be influenced by KW. In- terpret that as you will. > The color scheme of red, black and white, was appropriated from > revolutionary Russia. The red was for the blood of the workers; > the white for the flesh of the workers; the black for....I don't > know--the hair of the workers??? ;-) This is utter bullshit. A little bit of research should reveal to you the fact that there were many German flags with these colors long before the Russians (and the Nazis for that matter) had them. > The Nazi flag with the bold central swatika bears more than a passing > resemblance to the earlier communist flag with the large red star. See above. > The nazis appropriated many things from many sources, after all > if it worked for someone else... > And I hope everyone knows that the swastika itself is an ancient symbol > which was certainly not invented by Hitler. So, I guess that means that I should decorate my car with swasti- kas, and if anybody asks, I'll just say, "Hey, that's an *an- cient* symbol, Dude." > That leaves us with the 4 uniformally dressed and lipsticked men. > Again, not the sort of imagery that the SS would approve of. > At least not in public--who knows what sort of bizzare cabaret > entertainment they might have frequented out of the public eye? :) > > The uniformality could be interpreted as having some fascistic > connotations, but it could just as easily stand for the selflessness > of the workers, or the selflessness of the Kraftwerkers with their > machine-like lack of indivisual personalites (as they might have us > believe). Yawn! Look, come and visit here in Germany, or take a history course, and then maybe we'll be able to talk about this again sometime. Mike "I took my first German course because of Kraftwerk" Lyons -- +==========================================================================+ | Michael D. Lyons | Telefon: +49 911 996750 | EMail: mdl@BinTec.DE | | BinTec Computersysteme | Telefax: +49 911 6880725 | | | Willstaetter Strasse 30 / 90449 Nuernberg / Federal Republic of GERMANY | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Aug 93 09:15:53 EDT From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Imagery, etc. To: kraftwerk Really-From: Eric Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >Really-From: Michael D. Lyons >> > I've often wondered if the members of Kraftwerk subscribed to the Nazi, or >> > skin-head movements now burgeoning in Germany. Being German people they >> > must have confronted this,or may be dealing with it now. >> > Has anyone heard anything about this? Or are they too busy with their >> > music to worry about such things? >> I think you are a very silly person, not to say plainly stupid. >The question wasn't *that* stupid, but maybe it was formulated >somewhat poorly. I'm glad to see that you can treat his question fairly and keep the discussion on an intellectual level. >There are, apparently, more than a few skins >and their ilk that get into Kraftwerk. I saw quite a few of them >lurking around at the Kraftwerk concert in Osnabrueck this year, >and at the gig in Muenchen in 1991. The musicians themselves >seem to be normal though. I talked to Florian Schneider and he >was pretty cool. This, taken with the fact that I'm an African- >American, makes it doubtful that F.S. is a Nazi. So he actually talked to you? That proves he's not a Nazi? Not that I would assume otherwise, but that's still pretty flimsy circumstancial evidence. Given the way you tore into my argument, and your own report that neo-nazis were hanging aorund the gigs, I'm surprised that you'd make such an assumption. >As far as KW's imagery and style goes, there are quite a few neo- >and pseudo-fascist bands that claim to be influenced by KW. In- >terpret that as you will. There's a big difference between neo and psuedo...I was talking to Mike Banks of the local (Detroit) techno band Underground Resistance about the band's recent tour of Germany, and he told me how he saw neo-nazis at their concerts who had the name of their single "The Punisher" cut into their hair. (UR's promotional imagery and stance of "hard music for a hard city" could easily be taken for psuedo- fascist). Mike told me how this did not sit well with him and that he has to worry about the consequences of his band's actions. He said (quoting almost exactly) that he did *not* want to be associated with "any group that wants to kill Jews and make things hard for minorities". UR is all African-American, by the way. >> The color scheme of red, black and white, was appropriated from >> revolutionary Russia. The red was for the blood of the workers; >> the white for the flesh of the workers; the black for....I don't >> know--the hair of the workers??? ;-) >This is utter bullshit. A little bit of research should reveal >to you the fact that there were many German flags with these >colors long before the Russians (and the Nazis for that matter) >had them. Although I disagree that my satatment was "utter bullshit" I will do the little bit of reseasrch into previous German flags. No doubt a little more research will reveal that the color scheme of red black and white is even more ancient. I did take the time to investigate this color scheme, consulting more than one dictionary of signs and symbols in art. In any case, the colors of previous German flags may have been appropriated as well. >> The Nazi flag with the bold central swatika bears more than a passing >> resemblance to the earlier communist flag with the large red star. >See above. Here I must insist that the modernist *look* of the Nazi flag (the red flag with white circle and black swastika) was most assuredly influenced by the art of revolutionary Russia, regardless of whether of not the symbols and colors previously existed in German culture. I guess I should explain that the whole premise for my bringing the Russians into this is because of the attribution given for the inspiration of the cover art for the Man-Machine album. I'm trying to support _Kraftwerk's_ crediting the inspiration to revolutionary Russian artist/designer, El Lissitzky. Perhaps I'm taking too many liberties in the way I credit the Russians for inventing fascist imagery, but my main point is really to explain how the modernist look that was created in Russia has come to be identified with Germany (mainly through it's adoption by the Bauhaus) and, by extension, with fascism. I'll admit that my argument could be better presented and thought out. I tend to give a lot of credence to circumstancial evidence--i.e. if some imagery resembles resembles a style of art that was invented many years previously, then I will conclude that the earlier inspired the later. Obviously, this is not always the case. >> The nazis appropriated many things from many sources, after all >> if it worked for someone else... >> And I hope everyone knows that the swastika itself is an ancient symbol >> which was certainly not invented by Hitler. Right here I was going to add that Hitler's use of the swastika has changed the meaning of it virtually forever. I thought that was a bit too obvious... >So, I guess that means that I should decorate my car with swasti- >kas, and if anybody asks, I'll just say, "Hey, that's an *an- >cient* symbol, Dude." I think you know the answer to that, and I'm surprised that you imply that I would support that idea. But just to prevent any further mis- understanding, my answer is an unequivocal NO! >> That leaves us with the 4 uniformally dressed and lipsticked men. >> Again, not the sort of imagery that the SS would approve of. >> At least not in public--who knows what sort of bizzare cabaret >> entertainment they might have frequented out of the public eye? :) >> The uniformality could be interpreted as having some fascistic >> connotations, but it could just as easily stand for the selflessness >> of the workers, or the selflessness of the Kraftwerkers with their >> machine-like lack of indivisual personalites (as they might have us >> believe). >Yawn! Look, come and visit here in Germany, or take a history >course, and then maybe we'll be able to talk about this again >sometime. I doubt that another trip to germany or another history lesson would make you any more receptive to my argument, or any less bored. Perhaps you should read up on some art history. >Mike "I took my first German course because of Kraftwerk" Lyons Unfortunately I was not well aware of Kraftwerk until 1978--two years after my first German lesson. --Eric "Now is the time on the Kraftwerk List when we dance! Auf Wiedersehen!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 93 13:07:57 BST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: rj_ingra@hal.uwe-bristol.ac.uk (Ingram) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Hi, Just to make a comment on Nationalism and Nazism, it is not just a German problem, but Europe wide, witness the rise in France of the Right. Also in the U.K we have problems with Rascists and extreme right wing groups extolling their vile rascist views. Just this last weekend an Ayrian concert was banned in Nottinghamshire by the Police, they also turned away car loads of Scandanavians, Germans and other Europeans who had travelled over, to get drunk (10 000 cans of beer were found on site) commit violence and deprave our society with their views. I personally don't feel that Kraftwerk extol a Nazi image, don't Anarchists also wear black ? What about bands that wear black leather, or people that wear leather because they like it ? Also people that go to alternative night clubs in Leather, are they Nazis ? I would'nt think so. So my view is that just because someone wears black they are not Nazis, has anyone seen issue 10 of Mondo 2000, there is a picture of the archytypical Cyberpunk, wearing black Leather Jacket, Black trousers and black bike boots - are they to be seen as Nazis ? I would say they are Anarchists in the digital domain if anything. Well just my $0.02 worth. Rich rj_ingra@btc.uwe.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 93 14:00:12 -0700 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #150 To: kraftwerk Really-From: karty@cs.washington.edu (Richard Karty) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > The fact that there's no real ethnographic link between the two doesn't > change the fact there there is a strong surface similarity; people will > make the connection no matter what the true origins of the style were. OK fine, then let's just pack it in right now, shut down the universities, stop writing books, listen to whatever happens to be on the radio, and generally pander to the lowest common denominator. The political history of El Lissitsky and his art is a FACT. The opposition of the Nazis to his kind of art and politics is a FACT. Lots of people aren't aware of the distinctions, and that sucks. Lots of people are lame in many other ways, too, but that doesn't mean our first goal is to accomodate their ignorance. After all, that's what TV is for! ;^) Richard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1993 20:54:13 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #150 To: kraftwerk Really-From: zerobeat@intacc.uucp (Ferenc Szabo) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Doctor Professor Richard Karty PHD, BA, SU, CD, DAT, CK, says: >"OK fine, then let's just pack it in right now, shut down the >universities, stop writing books, listen to whatever happens to be on >the radio, and generally pander to the lowest common denominator. >The political history of El Lissitsky and his art is a FACT. The >opposition of the Nazis to his kind of art and politics is a FACT. >Lots of people aren't aware of the distinctions, and that sucks. >Lots of people are lame in many other ways, too, but that doesn't mean >our first goal is to accomodate their ignorance." Remember that KW is simply a pop band (and one of THE best at that). They attract a wide range of people with a wide range of education. I agree that it would be wonderful if everybody in the world knew everything about everything......ignorance is the cause of a lot of bad stuff that happens. But honestly, you're talking about a fact that mostly university educated history or art students might be privy to. Where does this fact rate in terms of importance in the world of facts? Not at the top, that's for sure. Remember that you didn't used to know all and were once ignorant about life, the universe and everything. If somebody asks a question, it's probably because they want an answer and not because they want to be told how uneducated they are. Bruce got a few excellent responses to his query which probably enlightened him somewhat. They sure enlightened me. Gasp.......yes I admit it.........I had no idea who El Lissitsky was. (By the way, many articles here do NOT come from Europe. You tend to know less about a place that you DON'T live in than you know about a place that you DO.) #******************************************************************************* #This message was sent from MATRIX ARTS BBS * #The views expressed in this posting are those of the individual author only. * #******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Fri, 6 Aug 93 04:00:13 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #152 Kraftwerk Digest Fri, 6 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 152 Today's Topics: Kraftwerk's Politics (3 msgs) Kraftwerk Digest V1 #151 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 05 Aug 93 11:12:45 N From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Rick Jansen Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > Bruce_M._Lloyd: > Being German people they must have confronted this,or may be dealing with > it now. > Ferenc Szabo: > Remember that you didn't used to know all and were once ignorant about life, > the universe and everything. If somebody asks a question, it's probably > because they want an answer and not because they want to be told how > uneducated they are. If you are asking or saying things on a public list, especially on gruesome subjects like this, you should be very very careful. I really haven't the faintest idea how you can be so generalizing as to link Kraftwerk "being German people" to skin-head movements or nazis. You may at least have looked up the word 'fascism' in a dictionary, see what the word means, and fail to detect any link with Kraftwerk. > Lazlo Nibble: > My (German-born, raised during WWII) mother returned from a > visit with her remaining family there earlier this summer full of horror > stories to tell about the hatred that's bubbling just under the surface. If you pay attention to the world news you'll see this happening all over the world, in present and past. There really isn't happening *anything* new. Somalia, Ethiopia, Bosnia, Iraq, Liberia, it has happened, is happening, and probably will happen in time to come. Unfortunately, if something is happening in Germany, it is very often directly linked to things that happened there in the past. "Hatred bubbling just under the surface" is everywhere, not least, for example, in the land of the free. I do remember images of Los Angeles burning some years ago. I see hate-messages in certain usenet news groups, I have felt the atmosphere in the street in some American cities, for example East St. Louis, which was described to me as a 'War Zone'. My friends wouldn't even let me out of the car. ("Do you really want to get killed?") Compared to all this Germany is a peaceful heaven with a stable and social society. For Kraftwerk this whole discussion must be a nightmare come true. Two such civilized people being discussed in connection with nazis and skin-heads, I *really* am appalled. Rick Jansen -- rick@sara.nl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1993 12:01:12 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: zerobeat@intacc.uucp (Ferenc Szabo) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Rick Jansen says: >"For Kraftwerk this whole discussion must be a nightmare come true. Two such civilized people being discussed in connection with nazis and skin-heads, I *really* am appalled." At no point did Bruce or anybody *assert* that KW must be involved in some kind of fascism. A question was merely asked. That question was asked without knowing 100% of what KW is all about or what true fascism/nazism is all about. I suppose that KW is considered such a sacred thing (by some) that blasphemy and sacriledge hath now occured by simply *asking*. You will not educate people by simply telling them they are NOT educated on certain things. f-erenc o la sa li ma #******************************************************************************* #This message was sent from MATRIX ARTS BBS * #The views expressed in this posting are those of the individual author only. * #******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Aug 93 10:04:20 N From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Rick Jansen Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > Ferenc Szabo: > I suppose that KW is considered such a sacred thing (by some) that > blasphemy and sacriledge hath now occured by simply *asking*. No, fascism and nazism are such diabolic things that the the thought of someone "often wondering" appalls me. You cannot ask certain questions. That is not a matter of education on facts, but a matter of manners. The original questioner knows very well nazism and "skin-head movements now burgeoning in Germany" are very bad things. The question should not have been asked. Rick Jansen -- rick@sara.nl "Are you a virgin?" -Monty Python ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 13:09:03 +0200 (MET DST) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #151 To: kraftwerk Really-From: Michael D. Lyons Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > So [Florian Schneider] actually talked to you? That proves he's not a > Nazi? Not that I would assume otherwise, but that's still pretty flimsy > circumstancial evidence. I've dealt with racists my entire life both in the US and here in Germany, and I can generally tell whether someone's a bigot or not. You may call this circumstantial (note the spelling :-) evi- dence if you'd like. Besides, I said that it was "doubtful" that F.S. is a Nazi, which isn't the same thing as saying that I know that he isn't one. > Given the way you tore into my argument, > and your own report that neo-nazis were hanging aorund the gigs, > I'm surprised that you'd make such an assumption. First off, there weren't *that* many skinheads at those gigs (I'm sorry if I gave anyone a different impression by saying "more than a few"). Second, the fans or spectators at a concert in no way define what the performers are like. I recently read an in- teresting anecdote from Neil Tennant about how hordes of skin- heads showed up at a Pet Shop Boys concert on the last tour. Are the Pet Shop Boys fascists? I don't think so either. > Here I must insist that the modernist *look* of the Nazi flag (the red flag > with white circle and black swastika) was most assuredly influenced by > the art of revolutionary Russia, regardless of whether of not the symbols > and colors previously existed in German culture. What are your references on this? > Perhaps you should read up on some art history. Do six semesters worth at Duke University count as "reading up"? I used to work in the archives for the Art History department there, and am fully versed in 20th Century art, thank you. :-) NOW FOR SOME OBLIGATORY KRAFTWERK MATERIAL :-) There's an interview with Karl Bartos & Lothar Manteuffel (aka Elektric Music) in the latest issue of the German synthesizer/high tech music magazine "Keys." I was thinking about translating this for the list when I have some time (in about 12 years :-). Bartos apparently doesn't like to talk about Kraftwerk much (he never mentions them by name). Here is a quick translation of the beginning of the interview: KEYS: You were apparently in seclusion for a longer period of time, composing and occasionally producing. Why did you decide to step back into the limelight with your own act? Karl Bartos: We didn't interrupt our work at all. It was like this: I left *that* band in 1990, and worked non-stop :-) from 1991 until now. It's not easy starting all over again. First we had to find a new studio in Duesseldorf, since *other people* are still working in the old studio. We had to renovate the news studio, and that took up an entire year. After that, we started working on the music: various projects, remixes, and produc- tion work. Finally, we made the album "Esperanto." It's not as if we'd had a lot of time to reflect over what we were doing. We just started working: Thinking while doing. Mike ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Sat, 7 Aug 93 04:00:13 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #153 Kraftwerk Digest Sat, 7 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 153 Today's Topics: Imagery, etc. Kraftwerk's Politics (6 msgs) Kraftwerk Digest V1 #151 Legal question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1993 01:44:17 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Imagery, etc. To: kraftwerk Really-From: Bruce_M._Lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >So, I guess that means that I should decorate my car with swasti- >kas, and if anybody asks, I'll just say, "Hey, that's an *an- >cient* symbol, Dude." Not wanting to stray too far from the pulse of this thread, the swastika is an ancient Greek symbol meaning peace and wealth. Sure, go ahead and put it on your car. Just dont put it on your Volkswagen, people may get the wrong idea. My parents have a swastika on a tea-cosy that was made pre-1900s... bml ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 93 8:49:08 BST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: kzim@ucrmath.ucr.edu (christopher zimmerman) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > > Ferenc Szabo: > > I suppose that KW is considered such a sacred thing (by some) that > > blasphemy and sacriledge hath now occured by simply *asking*. > Rick Jansen: > No, fascism and nazism are such diabolic things that the > the thought of someone "often wondering" appalls me. You ^^^ > cannot ask certain questions. That is not a matter of education > ^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ > on facts, but a matter of manners. The original questioner > knows very well nazism and "skin-head movements now burgeoning > in Germany" are very bad things. The question should not have > been asked. ^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ > ^^^^ ^^^^^^ Why, because you said so? Regardless of whether or not the question was in good taste (and whether that matters in the first place), the thread following it has been (sometimes) entertaining and (sometimes) educational. I don't know why he asked it. I'm willing to give him the benefit of a doubt, though. Would it be such a crime to wonder how Kraftwerk relate to the world around them? Or should we just assume they live in a vacuum? You can't tell me that they DON'T have an opinion on the subject. However, you're probably also right to tell me to mind my own goshdurn business and leave their personal opinions to themselves. So where does that leave me? I guess my own humble opinion is there isn't much to gain from flogging anyone who happens to say "skinhead" in a message to the Kraftwerk list. Call me an ignorant twentysomething American, but that's just how I feel. Christopher Robin Zimmerman A regular at the Electric Cafe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1993 01:51:46 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Bruce_M._Lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >A question was merely asked. That question >was asked without knowing 100% of what KW is all about or what >true fascism/nazism is all about. I know what KW is about and I know what fascism is about. I'm ticked off that no one read my message and understood it. Please see one of my many posts here, I'm tired of telling you people what my question was. bml ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1993 01:53:35 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Bruce_M._Lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >No, fascism and nazism are such diabolic things that the >the thought of someone "often wondering" appalls me. You >cannot ask certain questions. That is not a matter of education >on facts, but a matter of manners. The original questioner >knows very well nazism and "skin-head movements now burgeoning >in Germany" are very bad things. The question should not have >been asked. If fascism and nazism are such diabolical things, why are you saying that I should not have asked the question? Double standard? If you can't answer the question, shut up and say you cant! bml ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1993 01:40:55 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Bruce_M._Lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >So my view is that just because someone wears black they are not Nazis, has >anyone seen issue 10 of Mondo 2000, there is a picture of the archytypical >Cyberpunk, wearing black Leather Jacket, Black trousers and black bike boots > - are they to be seen as Nazis ? I would say they are Anarchists in the digital >domain if anything. That _isn't_ the point I am tryng to make! Wake UP people! Do you read what is on your terminals or does it just flow through a mindless and nebulous haze into oblivion or what your twisted opinions perceive? Let me paraphrase, AGAIN, what my question was about.... "How does Kraftwerk feel about the rise of Nazis and skin-heads in their country? What are their political feelings toward this?" Thats it! Its like asking a Frenchman what he thinks about Aloxe Corton '57 wine. Or a Englishman about the Chuck & Di scandal. Thats all! Dont get me angry! bml ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1993 01:31:05 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Bruce_M._Lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >>I think you are a very silly person, not to say plainly stupid. >> >>Rick Jansen >>-- >>rick@sara.nl 'Scuse me? I'm stupid because I asked a question? Why does asking about KW's politics make me a stupid person? Obviously, the only stupid person here is _you_ for making such aridiculous and irrational statement. In other words, fuck you. bml ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1993 01:35:09 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Bruce_M._Lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >>Here here quite agree ! >> >>Rich, >> >>rj_ingra@btc.uwe.ac.uk I cannot understand why you are so shook up about my question. I'm not implying that they're Nazis. I just asked if anyone knew of their opinions or feelings. If you're too anal retentive too think about it or come up with an answer, I would then have to assume that you do most things in life blind. KW is a great band, but they're not gods. They're human. And if you cant handle a simple question, perhaps you should find another digest to follow. bml ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1993 00:23:45 -500 (EDT) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #151 To: kraftwerk Really-From: Gabriel Yedid Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu On Thu, 5 Aug 1993, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > > > Perhaps you should read up on some art history. > > Do six semesters worth at Duke University count as "reading up"? > I used to work in the archives for the Art History department > there, and am fully versed in 20th Century art, thank you. :-) Ooh. Touche. > NOW FOR SOME OBLIGATORY KRAFTWERK MATERIAL :-) > > There's an interview with Karl Bartos & Lothar Manteuffel (aka > Elektric Music) in the latest issue of the German > synthesizer/high tech music magazine "Keys." I was thinking > about translating this for the list when I have some time (in > about 12 years :-). Bartos apparently doesn't like to talk about > Kraftwerk much (he never mentions them by name). Here is a quick > translation of the beginning of the interview: > > KEYS: You were apparently in seclusion for a longer period of > time, composing and occasionally producing. Why did you decide > to step back into the limelight with your own act? > > Karl Bartos: We didn't interrupt our work at all. It was like > this: I left *that* band in 1990, and worked non-stop :-) from > 1991 until now. It's not easy starting all over again. First we > had to find a new studio in Duesseldorf, since *other people* are > still working in the old studio. We had to renovate the news > studio, and that took up an entire year. After that, we started > working on the music: various projects, remixes, and produc- > tion work. Finally, we made the album "Esperanto." It's not as > if we'd had a lot of time to reflect over what we were doing. > We just started working: Thinking while doing. > > > Mike What exactly happened that Bartos quit the band? (I take it the split was not an amiable one) Who did he have a falling out with--Ralf, Florian, or both, and over what (if that WAS the case)? (Lemme guess: he'd been "silent" musically since 1986 and just couldn't take it any more.) AND DOES ANYBODY KNOW ANYTHING MORE ABOUT THAT NEW KW VIDEO? Gabe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 93 11:13:35 +0200 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Legal question To: kraftwerk Really-From: linstee@dutecaj.et.tudelft.nl (Erik van Linstee) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Hi, does anyone know if The Man Machine is a protected "name"? I am asking, since I am looking for a proper name for my company and since the main purpose is to make humans more comfortable with machines, I found something like Man Machine Interfaces or The Man Machine Connection or even Man Machinery to be a nice name. However, if someone knows of a reason not to use any of these names, it'd be much obliged. Erik ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Sun, 8 Aug 93 04:00:11 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #154 Kraftwerk Digest Sun, 8 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 154 Today's Topics: Kraftwerk's Politics Test! Please ignore. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1993 11:15:39 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: zerobeat@intacc.uucp (Ferenc Szabo) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Rick Jansen says: >"...fascism and nazism are such diabolic things that the the thought of someone "often wondering" appalls me. You cannot ask certain questions." I'll simply let your profoundly stifling attitude speak for itself. Not being able to ask question (even an ignorant one) simply compounds the ignorance. Your ban/silencing/censorship of questions will NOT change the fact that some people might still be wondering. Don't you think it's better to educate people rather than shutting them up? Face the fact that not everybody knows everything about everything. Other people posting to this thread have shed much light (to me and other "ignoramuses") on the matter. To them I thank you. I have been educated. To Rick and other like-minded people: You have done absolutely nothing to offer knowledge pertaining to the original question. That attitude will simply keep more and more people in the dark. f-erenc ps........Gee, was Hitler a big fan of Charlie Chaplin? Same moustache! I can just see some of you bursting a blood vessel on how heinous this question is. #******************************************************************************* #This message was sent from MATRIX ARTS BBS * #The views expressed in this posting are those of the individual author only. * #******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Aug 93 11:21:48 +0200 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Test! Please ignore. To: kraftwerk Really-From: linstee@dutecaj.et.tudelft.nl (Erik van Linstee) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu I hope I get this, or else I am of the list :-( ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 04:00:13 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #155 Kraftwerk Digest Mon, 9 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 155 Today's Topics: Imagery, etc. Kraftwerk's Politics why Bartos left KW ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Aug 93 19:26:19 -0400 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Imagery, etc. To: kraftwerk Really-From: prabhu@cs.umass.edu (Rajesh Prabhu) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Bruce_M._Lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com writes : >Not wanting to stray too far from the pulse of this thread, the swastika is >an ancient Greek symbol meaning peace and wealth. Sure, go ahead and put Well, just clarifying the matter here : The Swastika happens to be an ancient Indian (Vedic) symbol, which to this day is used in any auspicious religious ceremony (Hindu) in India, and means "good health" in Sanskrit. ( Please remember this if you ever go to India, else you may get the mistaken impression that most Indians are anti-Semetic ! ) The only difference between that symbol & the one used by the Nazis is that the arms go the other direction. (clockwise instead of anti-cwise) ObKraftwerk: Does anyone know if "Esperanto" will ever see a domestic release here in the USA ? -- Rajesh (prabhu@cs.umass.edu) >it on your car. Just dont put it on your Volkswagen, people may get the >wrong idea. > >My parents have a swastika on a tea-cosy that was made pre-1900s... > >bml > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 93 10:18:52 N From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Rick Jansen Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > >>> Bruce_M._Lloyd: > >>> I've often wondered if the memebers of Kraftwerk subscribed to the Nazi, or > >>> skin-head movements now burgeoning in Germany. Being German people they > >>> must have confronted this,or may be dealing with it now. > >> Rick Jansen: > >>I think you are a very silly person, not to say plainly stupid. > Bruce_M._Lloyd: > 'Scuse me? I'm stupid because I asked a question? Why does asking about > KW's politics make me a stupid person? Obviously, the only stupid person > here is _you_ for making such aridiculous and irrational statement. You may phrase your 'questions' a little bit more careful next time. I have even looked up 'to subscribe' to see if it had a meaning I was not aware of. It did not. > In other words, fuck you. Charmed I'm sure. Rick Jansen -- rick@sara.nl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 93 09:26:41 N From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: why Bartos left KW To: kraftwerk Really-From: Rick Jansen Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > What exactly happened that Bartos quit the band? (I take it the > split was not an amiable one) Who did he have a falling out with--Ralf, > Florian, or both, and over what (if that WAS the case)? (Lemme guess: > he'd been "silent" musically since 1986 and just couldn't take it any more.) Man, Machine and Music gives the impression he was fed up with 'not doing much'. Working so long and not bringin out anything new, and of course Bartos and Fluer being sort of second plan band members. Apparently Huetter and Schneider met David Bowie and Iggy Pop, but Bartos and Fluer "were never given the chance to meet Bowie and/or Pop". It seems Bartos and Fluer were 'just' hired musicians. Rick Jansen -- rick@sara.nl She's a module and she's looking good ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Tue, 10 Aug 93 04:00:10 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #156 Kraftwerk Digest Tue, 10 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 156 Today's Topics: Equipment in 1981 tour Fed up of latest thread (2 msgs) Kraftwerk's Politics (3 msgs) New Bartos/Flur collaboration Swastikas / Bartos / Man-Machine why Bartos left KW Why Schult 'left' KW ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 18:41:59 BST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Equipment in 1981 tour To: kraftwerk Really-From: Kevin Busby Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Well I hope this will be of interest: as promised/threatened, here's a list of the main equipment used by Kraftwerk in their 1981 tour (compiled from an article in the Sept. 1981 issue of 'Electronics & Music Maker' magazine...!). Two analogue sequencers, 64 notes each. Roland Micro-Composer "with expanded memory" Eventide Digital Delay (x2) Eventide Flanger Eventide Harmonizer Small stereo mixer "A special light-disc [laser disc?] instrument from Florida for mono choir sounds" Polymoog Minimoog Korg PS-3300 (How did they fit one of those monsters into a console?!!) + custom-built keyboard Tuning device, meters, graphic and parametric equalisers Custom-built drum consoles "Various filtering devices" Syndrum Limiter/compressors "Special drum machine built by Kraftwerk's engineer" Sennheiser vocoder Mixer "Switching facilities" Electronic flute - "It's not actually blown, but uses keys situated in flute pad positions that are "touched" by the fingers to give a D/A control voltage/trigger output for any of the synthesisers." EMS vocoder Prophet (presumably a Sequential Prophet 5) synthesiser "Florian's... trigger pad for starting his master clock". So there you are, he does run off batteries. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 08:02:08 EDT From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Fed up of latest thread To: kraftwerk Really-From: Richard=Paiement%DCN%DGBT=CRC=ADMSR@dgbt.banyan.doc.ca Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu I'm expecting tons of flames for this, but here goes... Let's face it, the KW-Nazi-Swastika-everything-else thread is getting a bit boring to read, for me anyways. I don't even read my KW mail past the subject list anymore. I subscribed to this list to read about and participate in the discussion of KW music, and not individual beliefs and philosophies of the band members. How about you guys start a spin-off group to discuss such matters, or if the majority wants this thread to continue, maybe I'll just unsubscribe myself from this list. It'll give me more time to do other things. Please, let's move on to more interesting topics. And try to avoid using such rude and foul language as typified by the word 'fuck', which isn't really appropriate in this list. Let's all show a bit of maturity. Richard P. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 17:09:25 BST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Fed up of latest thread To: kraftwerk Really-From: rj_ingra@hal.uwe-bristol.ac.uk (Ingram) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Hi I think this comment is very true, >And try to avoid using such rude and foul language as typified by the word >'fuck', which isn't really appropriate in this list. Let's all show a bit of >maturity. Onto a new topic now. Does anyone know when/if any new Kraftwerk material will be coming out soon. Has anyone heard any rumours ? Also are there any new boot CD's, say of the recent Euro concerts ? Rich. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 93 11:40:59 N From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Rick Jansen Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > f-erenc: > > ps........Gee, was Hitler a big fan of Charlie Chaplin? Same moustache! > I can just see some of you bursting a blood vessel on how heinous > this question is. If you would model this question after Bruce_M._Lloyd you would have asked: "Gee, was Charlie Chaplin a fan of Hitler?" Can you feel the difference? Rick Jansen -- rick@sara.nl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1993 19:09:18 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: zerobeat@intacc.uucp (Ferenc Szabo) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Rick Jansen says: >"If you would model this question after Bruce_M._Lloyd you would have >asked: > "Gee, was Charlie Chaplin a fan of Hitler?"" Today I saw a documentary about Hitler's rise to power. As far back as the late 1920's he had that same moustache. Therefore Charlie Chaplin was a Nazi and emulated Hitler's moustache as a sign of solidarity. It all makes sense now. Buster Keaton and Harold Lloyd must have been in on it somehow too. Would somebody out there please attempt to silence me instead of trying to explain that the two men's moustaches had nothing to do with eachother (coincedece), or perhaps Chaplin was mocking Hitler. That way I won't learn anything and will forever be ignorant of the issue. boing boom chuck the security gaurd f-erenc #******************************************************************************* #This message was sent from MATRIX ARTS BBS * #The views expressed in this posting are those of the individual author only. * #******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 03:12:47 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk's Politics To: kraftwerk Really-From: Bruce_M._Lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >You may phrase your 'questions' a little bit more careful next time. "more carefully next time"?! Since when can you tell _me_ how to phrase a question? Who died and made you God? I will ask ANY question I choose or feel about Kraftwerk, and if it doesn't suit your criterion, I suggest you come down off your pedistal and become a mere mortal like the rest of us. And no YET has answered my question. >I have even looked up 'to subscribe' to see if it had a meaning I >was not aware of. It did not. What definition were you expecting? bml ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 11:43:40 MET DST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: New Bartos/Flur collaboration To: kraftwerk Really-From: Trevor Warwick (dtn: 830-4432) 09-Aug-1993 1037 Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu There was a program on Radio 1 in the UK on Saturday about New Order. The members of New Order have had a number of side projects, the most successful of which has been Electronic, comprising Bernard Sumner from New Order and Johnny Marr, previously of the Smiths. Sumner mentioned that Electronic are going to be working with Karl Bartos and Wolfgang Flur for some tracks on Electronic's new album. ---- Trevor Warwick, (warwick@marvin.enet.dec.com) Internetworking Products Engineering Group, Digital Equipment Corporation, Reading, England. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 11:06:23 +0200 (MET DST) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Swastikas / Bartos / Man-Machine To: kraftwerk Really-From: Michael D. Lyons Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu I'll follow up to various posts at once: --------------- > >So, I guess that means that I should decorate my car with swasti- > >kas, and if anybody asks, I'll just say, "Hey, that's an *an- > >cient* symbol, Dude." > > Not wanting to stray too far from the pulse of this thread, the swastika is > an ancient Greek symbol meaning peace and wealth. Sure, go ahead and put > it on your car. Just dont put it on your Volkswagen, people may get the > wrong idea. That was the point actually. It's an ancient and simple geometric, the meaning of which has been permanently (at least in this century) altered by the National Socialists. In Germany, I can't put this symbol on *anything*, unless I has some justifi- able historical context (e.g. a model of a WWII German bomber). --------------- > What exactly happened that Bartos quit the band? (I take it the > split was not an amiable one) Who did he have a falling out with--Ralf, > Florian, or both, and over what (if that WAS the case)? I read an interview with Ralf around the time that "The Mix" came out (yes, I may translate it, too). There were rumors here in Germany that Kraftwerk was going to split up after the depar- ture of Bartos and what's-his-name, and Huetter said something along the lines that the band wouldn't break up just because two of his "employees" left the group. I still haven't seen anything conclusive about what happened and why, but a good friend of mine knows Kraftwerk pretty well (he worked on some of their gear), and maybe he'll be able to enlighten me. --------------- > does anyone know if The Man Machine is a protected "name"? Ed Stratton, an Englishman that's made a mint from marketing his Zero-G series of sampling CDs, used to perform under the name of "Man Machine" (I've got a CD of his, and he uses *lots* of sam- ples from Kraftwerk). The term "Man Machine Interface" crops up in computer literature occasionally, although I'm no longer sure of just what the context is. At least one company here in Germany has "Mensch-Maschine" in its name. Mike --- +==========================================================================+ | Michael D. Lyons | Telefon: +49 911 996750 | EMail: mdl@BinTec.DE | | BinTec Computersysteme | Telefax: +49 911 6880725 | | | Willstaetter Strasse 30 / 90449 Nuernberg / Federal Republic of GERMANY | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 93 14:10:39 EDT From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: why Bartos left KW To: kraftwerk Really-From: Eric Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >Really-From: Rick Jansen >Man, Machine and Music gives the impression he was fed up with >'not doing much'. Working so long and not bringin out anything >new, and of course Bartos and Fluer being sort of second plan >band members. Apparently Huetter and Schneider met David Bowie >and Iggy Pop, but Bartos and Fluer "were never given the chance >to meet Bowie and/or Pop". It seems Bartos and Fluer were 'just' >hired musicians. A quick glance at the composing credit will show that Bartos was not writing for KW at that time. After the Man Machine, Bartos' name appears in the credits as often or more so than Schneider's. >From what I've read here, it would seem that Bartos' leaving was not an entirely amicable split. I wonder how well they all got along when Bartos was in KW. Seeing Bartos' name at the end of the credits instead of in alpabetical order suggests that he was treated like a lesser member of the group. If Huetter and Schneider say that Bartos was strictly a hired musician throughout his tenure w/KW, then I would assume they are applying a certain amount of revision. (Perhaps we have a clue as to their political beliefs after all! ;-) --Eric ... non-stop "Now is the time on the Kraftwerk list when we dance! Auf Wiedersehen!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 93 17:20:35 N From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Why Schult 'left' KW To: kraftwerk Really-From: Rick Jansen Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Man, Machine and Music also gives some insight into why Schult is no longer involved in Kraftwerk. Apparently in the early 80's Schult would very much have liked Kraftwerk to collaborate with other musicians. Michael Jackson was named in this respect. Apparently Huetter and Schneider became more and more 'secretive' and keeping things to Kraftwerk alone, instead of opening up to the world. Then, Schult left for the Bahama's for a long while, and seemingly had no contact with the band for many years. When he heard they were working on The Mix, with tracks from their career, he designed a cover for the album, but got no reaction to it from the band. To quote MM&M: 'The situation right now is that they know my phone number, and I know theirs." Interesting to me is Schult's reaction to the current robots. He seems not to feel about the robots as Kraftwerk themselves do: "Do the kids really want to see Ralf as a robot, or do they want the terminator II?". Apparently he fails to see that those highly stylized robots fit in perfectly with their image, which surprises me a bit, as he has been KW's visual person for so many years. Rick Jansen -- rick@sara.nl She's a module and she's looking good ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 04:00:09 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #157 Kraftwerk Digest Wed, 11 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 157 Today's Topics: Are our heroes being ripped off--fascist-ly? (2 msgs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 22:28:39 -500 (EDT) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Are our heroes being ripped off--fascist-ly? To: kraftwerk Really-From: Gabriel Yedid Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu I recently had an "interesting phone conversation" with a friend of mine who I have not seen in almost three years. I asked her a simple question, namely if she'd ever heard of KW (she's from Germany). This is what I got: --they're a very secretive group (duh) --they are a bunch of ex-Dusseldorfers who now live in Iowa... --their lyrics are extremely far right and racist... --they count mostly KKK members and skinheads among their fans. Ok, maybe there's more to "The Robots" than meets the ear, but this sounds very much to me like she is VERY misinformed, or there is another band pirating the name. Can anyone shed light on this? Gabe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 10:47:15 N From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Are our heroes being ripped off--fascist-ly? To: kraftwerk Really-From: Rick Jansen Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu In message <199308110234.AA02791@cs.uwp.edu> you write: > Ok, maybe there's more to "The Robots" than meets the ear, ... Uh, like what? Rick Jansen -- rick@sara.nl S&H's a module and s&h's looking good ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Thu, 12 Aug 93 04:00:11 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #158 Kraftwerk Digest Thu, 12 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 158 Today's Topics: Are our heroes being ripped off--fascist-ly? KW--music for traffic jams ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 21:18:18 -500 (EDT) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Are our heroes being ripped off--fascist-ly? To: kraftwerk Really-From: Gabriel Yedid Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu On Wed, 11 Aug 1993, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > Really-From: Rick Jansen > Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > > > In message <199308110234.AA02791@cs.uwp.edu> you write: > > Ok, maybe there's more to "The Robots" than meets the ear, ... > > Uh, like what? > > Rick Jansen It was a gratuitous sarcastic comment. Gabe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 13:55:01 EDT From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: KW--music for traffic jams To: kraftwerk Really-From: "Eric...non-stop" Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu In today's Detroit News there's a mention of our favorite band...In the article entitled "Crank up these tunes while you're jamming on the freeway" written by Susan Whitall (p. 1-C). In a list of songs to listen to while you're trying to ignore the fact that you're in a traffic jam, Kraftwerk's Autobahn is listed third of ten. To add further evidence that Autobahn was a hit in the US initially because most Americans thought it was an electronic Beach Boys song, I offer this excerpt from the article: "*'Autobahn'--Kraftwerk. (Scream along with the boys: 'Fahn, fahn, fahn, on ze autobahn')" Of course _we_ know better. :) --Eric "Now is the time on the Kraftwerk list when we dance. Auf Wiedersehen!" ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Fri, 13 Aug 93 04:00:12 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #159 Kraftwerk Digest Fri, 13 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 159 Today's Topics: FrEE aLTeRnaTiVe MusIc InFo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Aug 93 17:34:46 -0400 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: FrEE aLTeRnaTiVe MusIc InFo To: kraftwerk Really-From: silva@mond1.ccrc.uga.edu Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu **************************************************************************** ||||||||||||||| QRM - The aLTeRnaTiVe Online Music Publication ||||||||||||| **************************************************************************** QrM, can be your new source of aLTeRnaTiVe music info! For over two years QRM has covered the best of what's new and happening in the reaLm of cutting edge music in the hardcopy world, and now we've made the cYBeR leap into the InterneT. To be featured in the AuG issue: Interviews with: The Fall Bjork (formerly of the Sugarcubes...) Smashing Pumpkins The Fluid OMD Stereolab Unrest Pennywise Radiohead Concert coverage of: Porno for Pyros LoLLaPoLooZa 93 The Noisy Land tour (New Zealand bands) and SCADS of reviews of new releases. So do it. Increase your hip quotient by a factor of ten with a few well placed clicks of your mouse. Just send your e-mail address to QRM (silva@mond1.ccrc.uga.edu) and look for our premiere issue towards the end of the month. QRM, sorta like SPIN/Rolling Stone/Alternative Press without the $3 cover charge. Oh yeah, and without the pictures...but were working on that! ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Sun, 15 Aug 93 04:00:12 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #160 Kraftwerk Digest Sun, 15 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 160 Today's Topics: Equipment in 1981 tour ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 13:10:08 -0400 (EDT) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Equipment in 1981 tour To: kraftwerk Really-From: TAVARESAC@VAX.ETOWN.EDU Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Cool, but do you have any info on the equipment used on the last tour? Thanks in advance, Andre' Tavares (God Save Bob Moog) ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 04:00:11 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #161 Kraftwerk Digest Tue, 17 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 161 Today's Topics: Bootleg CDs (2 msgs) KW racist and rightwing?? Huh? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 13:53:39 GMT+0200 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: To: kraftwerk Really-From: Jose Garcia Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Once again, I've managed to send an E-mail, so here are some opinions about the latest discussions and arguments on the list. Still don't have access to my own account. ** Please DO NOT E-mail to the address on the header of this message ** *** KW politics: > Really-From: Bruce_M._Lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com > > I've often wondered if the memebers of Kraftwerk subscribed to the Nazi, or > skin-head movements now burgeoning in Germany. ... > > Has anyone heard anything about this? Or are they too busy with their > music to worry about such things? First off, "subscribe to": phrasal verb, meaning "to agree with, approve of". So I guess you're (where) asking the opinion of KW members about the Nazi movements and so on, right? Don't think anyone knows, unless very close to the band. I have several transcriptions of interviews taken between '77 and '83, that are in a Spanish book on electronic music bands called "La nueva musica: del industrial al techno-pop". Of course the transcriptions are in Spanish, wich in turn must have been translated from English, German or... I'll do my best to translate back to English some interesting bits (sorry about any mistakes): "The first thing we must do is to change ourselves, and the music is one of the best ways to get to do it. We have to transform ourselves, but not, for instance, in the sense in which the nazis did, but by improving to ourselves, in our relationships with other people, with friends, in the relationships between a man and a woman... Electronic music makes everything transparent, as the X-rays do, and being transparent is the most important thing in politics, specially now that none of the politicians are." "Politics have gone too far along the history. Politicians have always wanted to have power and more power, specially in Germany; they've been isolating people, making people to work for them (the politicians); they've been cutting the world in pieces; they've been crushing the man. We try to liberate the individual, so that he can create, he can use his head, and he cannot be manipulated by the so-called leaders. Man must trust in himself and forget about frontiers." Well, I think this two pieces say quite a lot about their opinions on this subject. I'd like to point out that this list was started with the purpose to * DISCUSS * about anything related to KW, not to * ARGUE *, which is sth. different, and I think that any personal arguments are best resolved by private E-mail. I must also add that some replies to this Bruce's message were very instructive and constructive (ist :) Who said on this list KW didn't have a message / philosophy ? *** Hired musicians: > Really-From: Rick Jansen > > It seems Bartos and Fluer were 'just' hired musicians. Bartos and Fluer have been part of KW for quite a few albums: RA, TEE, MM, CW, EC. Credits for the composition of songs are: RA: Hutter, Schneider: 4 songs H, S, Schult: 8 TEE: Music: Hutter, the whole LP, except for the final "song" Endless Endless, H, Schneider. Lyrics: all by a combination of H, S, Schult MM: Music: Hutter, Bartos: 3 songs (half LP) H, Schneider, B: 3 songs Lyrics: all by Hutter, except for 'The Model', H, Schult EC: All tracks by Hutter, Schneider, Bartos, plus the help of Schult in one track and Maxime Schmitt (probably with the lyrics). Is that the contribution of a merely 'hired musician'? Judge by yourself... *** KW being ripped off: > Really-From: Gabriel Yedid > ... > This is what I got: > > --they're a very secretive group (duh) That's right. > --they are a bunch of ex-Dusseldorfers who now live in Iowa... I doubt it. I think they live in Duesseldorf. More likely they've been living in Spain than in Iowa, as Ralf and Florian know a bit of Spanish. I think they've spent some holidays in Spain. > --their lyrics are extremely far right and racist... This is one interpretation. There are other possible interpretations to their lyrics. > --they count mostly KKK members and skinheads among their fans. How many among us are KKK members or skinheads? ... There is no other KW, except in Germany: the power plants :) Jose' Garcia "The number you have reached has been disconnected" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 16:11:49 -0400 (EDT) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Bootleg CDs To: kraftwerk Really-From: MCDATMAN Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Here is a list of bootlegs I recently found at a store in NYC. I did not purchase any of them for I do not know how good they are. Have you heard of any of these, or all? Please inform as to which to get, if you want any, let me know? HEUTE ABEND P&C 1991 DEEP RECORDS 021 (2CD) TRACKS DISK 1 DISK 2 1-3 LONDON 1-3 SHEFFIELD 4-7 SHEFFIELD 4 EDINBURG 8-13 BIRMINGHAM 5-6 EDINBURGH (SOUND-CHECK) 7-9 GRASSINA $38.99 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- HYPER CEREBRAL MACHINE MEN AT WORK VOX POPULI WORK 5536-2 LIVE APOLLO THEATRE FLORENCE 1981 MAY 19TH $18.99 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ DANGER-RADIOACTIVITY OVER EUROPE RADIOACTIVE RECORDS 9201-2 ISRAEL (2CD) $39.99 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ACADEMY THEATRE PAPER CORN MUSIC 1993 PC 008/9 LUXEMBOURG (2CD) LIVE IN BRIXTON TIME 49:42 $38.99 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- VIRTU EX MACHINA DEUTSCH-JAPANISCH FREUNDSCHAFT-TONTRAEGER, DUESSELDORF, 1992 (2CD) TIME 72:38 LIVE ON SOUNDBOARD 1981-TOKYO (7.9.1981) $19.99 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- N1 TO ZUERICH CHAM 1-9300 TIME 1h6m48s LIVE IN ZUERICH, 1991 $19.99 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COMPUTERS IN LOVE SKELETON SONGS, 1991 SS 001/002 (2CD) LIVE IN BELGIUM, 1981 $36.99 If you have any comments on these please post them to the mailing list. I have read the Pascal Bussy book this summer. If you have not already got a copy, get one. John jrichey@sitvxc.stevens-tech.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 21:08:06 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Bootleg CDs To: kraftwerk Really-From: zerobeat@intacc.uucp (Ferenc Szabo) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Heute Abend has extremely bad sound. I've been told it is the mono sound recorded onto a video camera. At times the crowd is WAY louder than the band. It becomes obvious that it's a camera when the sound keeps changing (because the camera keeps moving). Sometimes you clearly hear audience/camera operator conversations on top of the band. I've never seen KW and I really enjoyed the CD anyway. It does the job of letting me hear what they do live, but I don't like playing it often because it sounds so bad. f-erenc #******************************************************************************* #This message was sent from MATRIX ARTS BBS * #The views expressed in this posting are those of the individual author only. * #******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 21:01:33 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: KW racist and rightwing?? Huh? To: kraftwerk Really-From: zerobeat@intacc.uucp (Ferenc Szabo) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Gabe Yedid says: >" --their lyrics are extremely far right and racist..." Please give one (or more) examples of what you base this belief in. (y'know......John Denver was accused of writing a dope song when he wrote "Rocky Mountain High". The song was actually banned in certain places in the 70's. The song is not even vaguely about dope!) f-erenc #******************************************************************************* #This message was sent from MATRIX ARTS BBS * #The views expressed in this posting are those of the individual author only. * #******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Wed, 18 Aug 93 04:00:15 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #162 Kraftwerk Digest Wed, 18 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 162 Today's Topics: Bootleg CD's Bootleg CDs KW racist and rightwing?? Huh? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 15:15:50 BST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Bootleg CD's To: kraftwerk Really-From: Kevin Busby Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 16:11:49 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: Bootleg CDs > Really-From: MCDATMAN > Here is a list of bootlegs I recently found at a store in NYC. I did not purchase > any of them for I do not know how good they are. Have you heard of any of these, > or all? Please inform as to which to get, if you want any, let me know? > HYPER CEREBRAL MACHINE Avoid. The sound quality is very poor; there's a lot of noise from the crowd (not just cheering, but talking near the mic) and even the crackle of poor connections. The cover is good though, very er... "cyber". :-/ I believe that VIRTU EX MACHINA, N1 TO ZUERICH and COMPUTERS IN LOVE have been reviewed here and there in previous digests (I haven't heard any of them). BTW I came across a very good quality cassette the other day, 'Performed Live in Cologne 1975', which includes Ruckzuck, Kometenmelodie [1 + 2] and Autobahn. I'll try to get a mini-review together. Regards Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 12:15:28 METDST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Bootleg CDs To: kraftwerk Really-From: Hillebrand Boorsma Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu John asks: > Have you heard of any of these, > or all? Please inform as to which to get, if you want any, let me know? > > COMPUTERS IN LOVE > SKELETON SONGS, 1991 > SS 001/002 > LIVE IN BELGIUM, 1981 I own this one, and I like it. The sound quality is reasonable, the tracks are great, for example 'Les Mannequins' in French, like 'Mini-Calculateur'. But, don't expect HiFi. > I have read the Pascal Bussy book this summer. If you have not already > got a copy, get one. 1 1 1 (One One One, True, true, true). > Really-From: zerobeat@intacc.uucp (Ferenc Szabo) > > Heute Abend has extremely bad sound. I've been told it is the > mono sound recorded onto a video camera. At times the crowd...... OK, but it has some recordings of soundchecks that are interesting if you're a more or less addicted KW member. In the Model soundcheck, you can hear Ralf sing : Now she's a big succes I want to *BEEP, CENSORED* her again. Quite nice to quote, I think. Hillebrand. p.s.: * BEEP, CENSORED* : Indeed, I don't want to talk fithy language on the list. If you want to know the word, encrypt the title of the Front 242 CD: 06:21:03:11 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 17:46:02 -500 (EDT) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: KW racist and rightwing?? Huh? To: kraftwerk Really-From: Gabriel Yedid Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu On Mon, 16 Aug 1993, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > Really-From: zerobeat@intacc.uucp (Ferenc Szabo) > Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > > Gabe Yedid says: > > >" --their lyrics are extremely far right and racist..." > > Please give one (or more) examples of what you base this belief in. I didn't say this. This is what my friend has heard about KW. I know they have never done anything like this; that's why I want to know if another band that DOES sing hate-lit songs is stealing the name. Gabe ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Thu, 19 Aug 93 04:00:11 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #163 Kraftwerk Digest Thu, 19 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 163 Today's Topics: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #162 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 23:40:45 -0400 (EDT) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #162 To: kraftwerk Really-From: 808STATE@delphi.com Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Hello, I'm new to this list, and a fan of Kraftwerk. Could someone tell me what Elektrik Music sounds like? A friend of mine told me they sound like "Electronic Lounge Music". Is it worth plunking down $25.99 to get the cd from Tower? ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Fri, 20 Aug 93 04:00:13 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #164 Kraftwerk Digest Fri, 20 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 164 Today's Topics: Elektric Music (3 msgs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Aug 93 18:48:30 +0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Elektric Music To: kraftwerk Really-From: Kevin Busby Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 23:40:45 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #162 >Really-From: 808STATE@delphi.com > Hello, I'm new to this list, and a fan of Kraftwerk. Could someone tell >me what Elektrik Music sounds like? A friend of mine told me they sound like >"Electronic Lounge Music". Is it worth plunking down $25.99 to get the cd >from Tower? Elektric Music seem - perhaps understandably - a little unsure of what they're about on 'Esperanto', and I have to say that I found some of the songs (for example, 'Kissing the Machine') rather taxing in their sugariness, but there's also a great deal of Kraftwerk-style experimentation which keeps bringing me back to this CD. Personally I wouldn't pay a fortune for it, but it's definitely a recommended purchase for any fan of Kraftwerk. There's quite an interesting interview with Karl Bartos in the current ("September") issue of 'Future Music' magazine; worth reading if you get the chance ("Kraftwerk were like a wonderful jumbo jet that almost never took off. Now I'd rather have my own little Messerschmidt and my own Luftwaffe, and make my own pirouettes."). BTW I understand (from a posting made by Jose Garcia last May) that Ralf rolled off the production line on 20th August 1946. - Happy Huettermass everyone! kV. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 14:14:56 -500 (EDT) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Elektric Music To: kraftwerk Really-From: Gabriel Yedid Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu On Thu, 19 Aug 1993, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > Really-From: Kevin Busby > Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > > > > >me what Elektrik Music sounds like? A friend of mine told me they sound like > >"Electronic Lounge Music". Is it worth plunking down $25.99 to get the cd > >from Tower? Holy shit! _Esperanto_ is actually available for less in Montreal! $25.99! Geez that's bad! > > There's quite an interesting interview with Karl Bartos in the current > ("September") issue of 'Future Music' magazine; worth reading if you get the > chance ("Kraftwerk were like a wonderful jumbo jet that almost never took off. > Now I'd rather have my own little Messerschmidt and my own Luftwaffe, and make > my own pirouettes."). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ OK, so NOW we know who the fascist in the band was. > BTW I understand (from a posting made by Jose Garcia last May) that Ralf > rolled off the production line on 20th August 1946. How 'bout the others? Who's older, Ralf or Florian? Gabe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 22:09:06 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Elektric Music To: kraftwerk Really-From: zerobeat@intacc.uucp (Ferenc Szabo) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Kevin Busby says: >"Elektric Music seem - perhaps understandably - a little unsure >of what they're about on 'Esperanto', and I have to say that I found >some of the songs (for example, 'Kissing the Machine') rather >taxing in their sugariness, but there's also a great deal of >Kraftwerk-style experimentation..." I completely agree that 'Kissing The Machine' is out of place on the album and quite sucky. It's co-written and completely sung by Andy McCluskey of OMD (a fairly sucky band in their later days). But for the rest of the album........If I had been told it was the latest Kraftwerk album I don't think I would have been so surprised by the style. It's *that* much like KW. A somewhat harsher sound than KW though. f-erenc #******************************************************************************* #This message was sent from MATRIX ARTS BBS * #The views expressed in this posting are those of the individual author only. * #******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Sun, 22 Aug 93 04:00:09 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #165 Kraftwerk Digest Sun, 22 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 165 Today's Topics: WANTED ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 93 22:44:50 PDT From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: WANTED To: kraftwerk Really-From: meistro@pro-nsdapple.cts.com (Brian Plume) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Hi there....... I am in search of the following Kraftwerk albums. I know most of you out there probably have these already, but as a HUGE Kraftwerk fan who JUST RECENTLY found out there was life BEFORE "AUTOBAHN", I would like to know where I can find the 4 or 5 albums listed in the discography. If someone out there could direct me to a record store in the world somewhere that has them, I would be most appreciative. Price isn't a concern at this point and time. I've got to have the musik, at whatever cost. Just the thought of something out there by Kraftwerk that I HAVEN'T EVER HEARD gives me a terrible feeling in my stomach. (Ok, maybe I'm carrying on a bit too much, but I really do want a FULL collection of their albums.) Please help a fellow Kraftwerker....... Brian ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Mon, 23 Aug 93 04:00:10 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #166 Kraftwerk Digest Mon, 23 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 166 Today's Topics: Esperanto.Reply ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1993 19:52:38 EST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Esperanto.Reply To: kraftwerk Really-From: Bruce_M._Lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu datta@cs.uwp.edu, corrections needed. @SONG: Esperanto [All phrases repeated twice] you've got the perfect pitch for the universal language esperanto muziko ? lingo you've got the perfect pitch for the universal language esperanto muziko ? lingo [Some stuff in ?Esperanto?] Esperanto musico ? ? ? ? lingo ------------ David: When I hear this song, it sounds like they are saying "Esperanto Speak-0/Future Lingo". I dont think they're speaking Esperanto either. It just sounds like a bunch of noise. Bruce_Lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 04:00:10 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #167 Kraftwerk Digest Tue, 24 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 167 Today's Topics: Crosstalk 10"? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 15:44:36 -0600 (MDT) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Crosstalk 10"? To: kraftwerk Really-From: Lazlo Nibble Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu How rare is Elektric Music's Crosstalk/Intercomix 10" white-label? Anyone know what it goes for? (Yes, I found one...two in fact.) -- Lazlo (lazlo@unm.edu) ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Wed, 25 Aug 93 04:00:12 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #168 Kraftwerk Digest Wed, 25 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 168 Today's Topics: Swap ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 15:50:32 EET DST From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Swap To: kraftwerk Really-From: jhsa@ee.tut.fi (Salmij{rvi Janne) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Klang... I'd like to swap my Virtu Ex Machina to N1 Zurich. Anyone interested ? :) Janne ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 04:00:10 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #169 Kraftwerk Digest Fri, 27 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 169 Today's Topics: Ages of Kraftwerk members (was: Elektric Music) (2 msgs) Esperanto.Reply ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 93 19:40:28 +0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Ages of Kraftwerk members (was: Elektric Music) To: kraftwerk Really-From: Kevin Busby Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu In digest 1.164 Gabriel Yedid wrote:- >How 'bout the others? Who's older, Ralf or Florian? Ralf, it seems. In Digest 1.84 Jose Garcia wrote:- > Birth-date of manufacture Place >Ralf Hutter 20-8-46 Krefeld >Florian Scheneider-Esleben 7-4-47 Duesseldorf -- "They're really old!" - unkind member of the audience on the cassette bootleg of Brixton Academy concert. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 93 23:11:37 EDT From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Ages of Kraftwerk members (was: Elektric Music) To: kraftwerk Really-From: Eric Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >Really-From: Kevin Busby >In digest 1.164 Gabriel Yedid wrote:- >>How 'bout the others? Who's older, Ralf or Florian? >Ralf, it seems. In Digest 1.84 Jose Garcia wrote:- >> Birth-date of manufacture Place >>Ralf Hutter 20-8-46 Krefeld >>Florian Scheneider-Esleben 7-4-47 Duesseldorf Let the record show that the subject of KW's age has come up twice now on this list, and neither time has anyone questioned the need to know such info, nor complained that their age is not relevant to their music (and it isn't)! --Eric "Now is the time on the Kraftwerk list when we dance! Auf Wiedersehen!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 93 19:48:49 +0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Esperanto.Reply To: kraftwerk Really-From: Kevin Busby Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu In digest 1.166 Bruce_M._Lloyd@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com wrote:- >datta@cs.uwp.edu, corrections needed. > >@SONG: Esperanto >When I hear this song, it sounds like they are saying "Esperanto >Speak-0/Future Lingo". > >I dont think they're speaking Esperanto either. It just sounds like a >bunch of noise. I thought so too initially, but no, they really are singing "Esperanto muziko / La lingvo futuro". (Actually, with my _very_ limited knowledge of Esperanto I wonder if that it shouldn't be "Esperanta muziko / La lingvo futura", but I could well be wrong - either way that's not the refrain on the song). BTW poor old Karl spent ages sampling his phonemes for these tracks! kV. ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Sat, 28 Aug 93 04:00:14 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #170 Kraftwerk Digest Sat, 28 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 170 Today's Topics: "Our Heaven"? Ages of Kraftwerk members Ages of Kraftwerk members (was: Elektric Music) (2 msgs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 17:23:14 +0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: "Our Heaven"? To: kraftwerk Really-From: Kevin Busby Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu A mail order price list which I saw recently includes the following: "OUR HEAVEN Heaven In Pain (German 4-trk CD produced by Elektric Music, inc 12" Edit, 12" Loop Mix and Ambient Mix, picture sleeve! [Wow! Whatever will they think of next?])". Does anyone know anything more about this? Just idly curious as to the sort of thing the members of EM are getting involved with. (Incidentally, the same price list states that 'Esperanto' features "Karl Burton & Wolfgang Flur". Heh heh...). kV. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 17:09:22 +0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Ages of Kraftwerk members To: kraftwerk Really-From: Kevin Busby Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu In digest 1.169 Eric wrote:- > Let the record show that the subject of KW's age has come up > twice now on this list, and neither time has anyone questioned > the need to know such info, nor complained that their age is not > relevant to their music (and it isn't)! With respect, I'm not sure why the subject should cause offence. Surely the times through which the members of Kraftwerk have lived have been an incalculable influence upon their music? And if they were older or younger than they are isn't it possible that their approach to their music would be different? Whatever, I think the ages of Kraftwerk members would be a very strange subject for them to be touchy about; there's a big difference between asking someone's age and insulting them about it. Regards, Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 18:16:39 -500 (EDT) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Ages of Kraftwerk members (was: Elektric Music) To: kraftwerk Really-From: Gabriel Yedid Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu On Thu, 26 Aug 1993, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > Really-From: Eric > Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu > > >Really-From: Kevin Busby > >In digest 1.164 Gabriel Yedid wrote:- > >>How 'bout the others? Who's older, Ralf or Florian? > >Ralf, it seems. In Digest 1.84 Jose Garcia wrote:- > >> Birth-date of manufacture Place > >>Ralf Hutter 20-8-46 Krefeld > >>Florian Scheneider-Esleben 7-4-47 Duesseldorf > > Let the record show that the subject of KW's age has come up > twice now on this list, and neither time has anyone questioned > the need to know such info, nor complained that their age is not > relevant to their music (and it isn't)! My God, curiosity about a band who cloak themselves really well seems to be a really taboo thing here! Are we going to have another flame war similar to the fascist-or-not one?!?!?! Of all the cs.uwp.edu lists I subscribe to, this one's members seem to be...as guarded about KW as they are about themselves. I think this is QUITE a shortcoming. Wasn't it Bartos who said "Information wants to be free" on _Esperanto_ (boy, I never thought I'd end up quoting that album!) It just seems like every time anything of a personal nature is aksed about the band, certain members (and it's the same ones ALL THE FRAGGING TIME) jump all over and try to cover up, like we shouldn't be privy to the info. So what? Did I imply that Ralf and Florian are getting too old to go on? No. So what gives? Who appointed you people (and u no who u are) KW's keepers anyway? Gabe A regular DJ at the Intergalactic Radio Station :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 21:31:05 EDT From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Ages of Kraftwerk members (was: Elektric Music) To: kraftwerk Really-From: Eric Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu >Really-From: Gabriel Yedid >> Really-From: Eric >> >Really-From: Kevin Busby >> >In digest 1.164 Gabriel Yedid wrote:- >> >>How 'bout the others? Who's older, Ralf or Florian? >> >Ralf, it seems. In Digest 1.84 Jose Garcia wrote:- >> >> Birth-date of manufacture Place >> >>Ralf Hutter 20-8-46 Krefeld >> >>Florian Scheneider-Esleben 7-4-47 Duesseldorf >> Let the record show that the subject of KW's age has come up >> twice now on this list, and neither time has anyone questioned >> the need to know such info, nor complained that their age is not >> relevant to their music (and it isn't)! >My God, curiosity about a band who cloak themselves really well seems to >be a really taboo thing here! Are we going to have another flame war >similar to the fascist-or-not one?!?!?! Let the record show that 2 persons have now misinterpreted my observation and misrepresented my views. I made the post to point out how no one was starting a flame war over a question of age, unlike before when persons seemingly objected to the desire to know their sexual orientation or their inclination toward fascism. I don't think we'd have much of a flame war here as my opinions (as I know them to be) here are fairly closely in line with yours. >Of all the cs.uwp.edu lists I subscribe to, this one's members seem to >be...as guarded about KW as they are about themselves. I think this is >QUITE a shortcoming. Wasn't it Bartos who said "Information wants to be >free" on _Esperanto_ (boy, I never thought I'd end up quoting that album!) >It just seems like every time anything of a personal nature is aksed about >the band, certain members (and it's the same ones ALL THE FRAGGING TIME) >jump all over and try to cover up, like we shouldn't be privy to the info. This time (the second time) no one tried to cover up the knowledge of their ages. I observed that lack of covering up. You now imply that I'm covering up the information. I'm not. True, I don't think age is important, as some thought sexual orientation wasn't important, but I didn't try to cover up that info or fight against the the desire to know the info. You have the wrong person. >So what? Did I imply that Ralf and Florian are getting too old to go on? No. You have no argument with me. >So what gives? Who appointed you people (and u no who u are) KW's keepers >anyway? I have always tried to add information to the discussion or to make sardonic and (what I hope are) thought-provoking comments. I have always taken every question seriously and not tried to discourage anyone's quest for information. Check the digests if you doubt me. >Gabe >A regular DJ at the Intergalactic Radio Station :-) --Eric As tired as you of the flame wars ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ****************************** Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 04:00:11 CDT From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (Kraftwerk) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #171 Kraftwerk Digest Tue, 31 Aug 93 Volume 1 : Issue 171 Today's Topics: 'Spirit of Sound' correction Elektric Music Limited Edition CD Single It Werks. Kraftwerk Digest V1 #170 several topics: best bootleg, EM 10", first KW albums, ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 17:55:27 +0100 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: 'Spirit of Sound' correction To: kraftwerk Really-From: Kevin Busby Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu In digest 1.149 I mailed about the pre-Kraftwerk group 'Spirit of Sound'. I've now found the original note I had about this: the line-up was in fact- or so I was told - Florian Schneider, Michael Rother and Wolfgang Riechmann. If anyone knows anything about this I would be grateful for the information. BTW Eric, I certainly don't think I misrepresented your views - since I was puzzled as to what they could be - but I'm glad light has now been shed! kV. -- Zimmer der Energie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 07:20:40 PDT From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Elektric Music Limited Edition CD Single To: kraftwerk Really-From: swatch@pro-nsdapple.cts.com (Brian Plume) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Hi again. I have an Elektric Music CD single that I purchased about 3 or 4 months ago, and it says "limited edition, only 5,000 copies made". I was just wondering if this is TRUE or whether they just mean they made 5,000 for the U.S. It's got the following songs on it: Crosstalk Intercomix Baby Come Back My copy is 1219 out of 5000. Thanks. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 11:24:57 -0400 (EDT) From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: It Werks. To: kraftwerk Really-From: LERXT@delphi.com Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu Datta: Thanks for hooking me up to the list. I've received a few messages, so I know it works. The list looks like a lot of fun. I would prefer to receive the list in one fell swoop, so you can send it to me in digest format. Thanks a mil. See you on the net, --Jeremy Goldberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 14:02:20 -0700 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: Kraftwerk Digest V1 #170 To: kraftwerk Really-From: karty@cs.washington.edu (Richard Karty) Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu I agree that it is quite significant that the question of age did NOT provoke a heated argument. I'm glad someone pointed this out. In various places on the Net I've seen some hypocritical views of what background information is or is not relevant to music. Look at it this way - can you imagine walking in to an art museum and telling people they SHOULD - or should NOT - read a biography of Michelangelo, or whoever? More to the topic: Found these tantalizing tidbits while skimming the book on Kraftwerk in the store. ($22? No way! :^) 1 - Around 1991 they recorded a tag or promo bit for a French radio program about them. Anyone heard it? I'd sooner have this than any live bootleg! 2 - in Autumn '91 a journalist from the French magazine Actuel was granted just about the only interview ever to take place in Kling Klang studio. Let's hit the libraries! If someone can scan it in, I'll be happy to translate. Richard karty@cs.washington.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 12:13:24 GMT+0200 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: several topics: best bootleg, EM 10", first KW albums, ... To: kraftwerk Really-From: IINF9@cc.uab.es Requests for add/removal from this list to kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu ** Please DO NOT E-mail to the address on the header of this message ** Hello again. Some answers to some of the questions that have appeared lately in the digest. No access to my own account yet. Nice to hear from you again MCDATMAN! As for the boolegs, you should do the homework and read the back issues of the digest! ;) Anyway, I you want the best ones as far as the sound quality concerns, go for: 1) Virtu ex Machina (the best KW bootleg in my opinion, a must for every fan; this one has been released under several titles. The original one is "Numbers", released originally in Japan, then later bootlegged itself and released in Europe). By the way, I've got an spare copy of "Numbers", with live pics. from the '81 tour. Price would be: $28. 2) N1 to Zurich (A certain KWker recognised it was OK. The best one in sound quality from the '91 tour). The rest are not very good quality. Some are OK. There's a new one though: Academy Theatre. Anyone with more info on it? Sound quality... > Really-From: Kevin Busby > > BTW I came across a very good quality cassette the other day, Performed Live > in Cologne 1975... I think I sent a review of a bootleg CD called "Live in Cologne 1975". It's a very good quality bootleg, a copy of an older bootleg LP though. About the Elektric Music album, I don't quite agree it's comparable to what KW have produced. It's more pop/rock oriented, and Information is rather disco oriented, don't like it at all. The rest is quite OK. specially TV. > Really-From: meistro@pro-nsdapple.cts.com (Brian Plume) > If someone out there could direct me to a record store in the world ... I recommend you get one of the collector's magazine around: Record Collector (from UK) or Goldmine (from US). They've got lots of dealers advertised with lists of records they offer. Happy hunting... > Really-From: Lazlo Nibble > How rare is Elektric Music's Crosstalk/Intercomix 10" white-label? VERY rare! Wouldn't mind to have one of the 2 copies you found. What price? About the ages of KW members. I don't think it's a taboo. Just maybe Ralf & Florian don't like people to know about it. They're VERY VERY reserved as far as personal information concerns. Anyway, happy birth-day-of- manufacture, Florian. > Really-From: Kevin Busby > ... >"OUR HEAVEN Heaven In Pain (German 4-trk CD produced by Elektric Music ... > Does anyone know anything more about this? Would you be a regular reader of the fanzine AKTIVITAET, you wouldn't ask! ;) I think there's some info about this in one of the issues of the fanzine. BTW, just curio, anyone out there subscribed to this list after reading info about the list on the fanzine? Jose' Garcia "The number you have reached has been disconnected" A regular AKTIVITAET reader at the Intergalactic News Agent :-) ------------------------------ End of Kraftwerk Digest ******************************