From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #480 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Friday, 1 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 480 Re: Synths Quality of P. Bussy's book Re: Quality of P. Bussy's book Re: Quality of P. Bussy's book Re: Quality of P. Bussy's book ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:38:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Synths Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com I work in NYC, on 21st. st. Is your studio commercial or private? Wouldn't mind stopping in someday--unless, of course, you maintain a "Kling Klang" policy of secrecy! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:43:34 +0000 Subject: Quality of P. Bussy's book Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" > How on earth could they say Bussy's > book was shit?? ... It's about 50 times better written than any of the > teeny bop pap photo books or mainstream sycophantic MOR 'RRack' > biographies that clog up the "music" shelves on in bookshops. Is the original version of the "Man, Machine and Music" book really so good? I've read the German translation, and it's incredibly bad, almost infantile writing, with *lots* of grammatical and stylistic mistakes. Is this also the case with the original English version, or is the German translator (Ingeborg Schober) the one to blame? Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:57:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Quality of P. Bussy's book Really-From: Curryous@aol.com I thought the book was exceptionally well written and informative especially in light of the reluctance of the subjects to have information about them brought out. Russ Curry ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 17:13:31 -0300 Subject: Re: Quality of P. Bussy's book Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) >is the original version of the "Man, Machine and Music" book really >so good? I've read the German translation, and it's incredibly bad, >almost infantile writing, with *lots* of grammatical and stylistic mistakes. >Is >this >also the case with the original English version, or is the German translator >(Ingeborg Schober) the one to blame? The English version is very nice to read, fluent and synthetic (with no pun, sorry =8-) !!). About the contents of the book, the gossips and personal information about R & F are so few that I just can't believe that they had any motive to protest about their "privacity"... =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:01:28 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Quality of P. Bussy's book Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 05:13 PM 2/29/96 -0300, Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) wrote: > The English version is very nice to read, fluent and synthetic > (with no pun, sorry =8-) !!). About the contents of the book, >the gossips and personal information about R & F are so few >that I just can't believe that they had any motive to protest about >their "privacity"... I will concur that Bussy's book was rather enjoyable to read, and somewhat informative considering the reluctance on the parts of some of those asked to participate in this project. I must admit that I did find the book to be lacking in the area of descriptive details, but as far as the overall, broader picture goes, I thought it was a noble attempt. As far as the inaccuracies in the book goes, we should at least give Pascal Bussy credit for mentioning the possible presence of errors and inaccuracies on page 6 of the 'Author's Note'. Furthermore, I feel that Bussy's obvious love for the music of Kraftwerk, as well as his eagerness to complete the project, are commendable. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "It only takes a camera to change her mind..." ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #480 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #481 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Saturday, 2 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 481 Re: Synths More Synths [none] Greetings and Midis? Ralph plays the Mouth-organ? Yes, he does. Does he? synths and Numbers bootleg Re: synths and Numbers bootleg WHERE IS THE NEW ALBUM? Re: Quality of P. Bussy's book Re: WHERE IS THE NEW ALBUM? RE: Bussy book....Ralph and Florian have lost it Re: Synths RE: Bussy's book. Re: Quality of P. Bussy's book Re: Bussy's book. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 07:35:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Synths Really-From: RCroz75755@aol.com In a message dated 96-02-27 03:04:49 EST, ManMacn2@aol.com wrote: >Since we are all Kraftwerk and electronic fans, I was wondering....do any of >us have synths and studios? If so, what synths do you all have and what >makes up your studios? I own a couple of dinosuar synths - Roland JX3P and a Korg Poly 61. I don't have a studio but a friend has an 8-track machine in his basement that we create some music on from time to time. I did make a tape a few years ago of just sythns - nothing like our beloved KW - more AOR stuff! I used to play in a band called "The Doctorz" and we were basically a "rock" band but from time to time we would dabble in the "synth world" and create some pretty decent experimental music. Rob Crozier rcroz75755@aol.com ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 09:37:58 -0500 Subject: More Synths Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Did anyone see the PBS broadcast about the history of rock in the summer? In the final segment, there was a little blip about kraftwerk, and it showed them playing "Autobahn" live with Karl Bartos and Wolfgang Flur so i'm guessing it was from about '75 or '76. It was only there because of the influence it had on the rap culture, which was the focus of the segment. --I also wanted to ask - does anyone know the extent of the equipment that Kraftwerk uses - I asked this question about a year ago and was wondering if there is anything to add to what I already know: minimoog, roland MC-8, arp odessey, synclavier, farfiasa organ, morely pedals..... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 01 Mar 96 10:01:04 EST Subject: [none] Really-From: JUSTYNA JORDAN <100131.634@compuserve.com> unsubscribe kraftwerk-digest 100131.634@compuserve.com ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:09:43 -0500 Subject: Greetings and Midis? Really-From: ae890@detroit.freenet.org (Ian Malbon) Guten abend, meine damen und herren... I'm new to the list, just finished the Bussy book (quick read!), but I've adored Kraftwerk produkt since 1980 or so. My secret passion is for the foundations of true "techno" music, and Kraftwerk's contribution is immense and unmistakable. But what I'm wondering is this: With all of the synthesizing power and tools many of you have listed, why are there only one or two Kraftwerk gm midi files floating about the net? I've seen only "The Model" and the two versions of "Computer Love" listed on the website (which are now unavailable). Surely some of you out there have midi versions of your favorite tracks that you have slaved over transcribing, non? I understand copyright concerns, and the attractively German belief that there can exist only one true "definitive" mix. On the other hand, distributing content that your audience formats interactively *is* in some sense a grand and worthy experiment in art. We're the operators with our pocket calculators, after all... Politics aside, does anyone care to comment? Or contribute? - -- Therefore, I.M. ae890@detroit.freenet.org ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 16:28:51 +0000 Subject: Ralph plays the Mouth-organ? Yes, he does. Does he? Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" > > Harmonika" in English means Harmonium, which is an upright > > keyboard instrument with reeds > > This is not quite correct, IMHO. "Harmonium" is used both in > english *and* german to name the instrument you describe above. > "Harmonika" is indeed a harmonica or mouth-organ. Two quotes from the Langenscheid dictionary, to add to the confusion: English "Harmonica" = German "Mundharmonika" German "Harmonika" = English "Accordion" Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 01 Mar 96 10:40:47 EST Subject: synths and Numbers bootleg Really-From: Michael Frantz <73353.1432@compuserve.com> I've got a JD-800 synth and a Casio FZ1 sampler. The JD-800 is great and the Casio hasn't been switched on in ages. I also live in New York City. Any New Yorkers interested in setting up a meeting? I recently picked up the Numbers bootleg from the Sept. 7, 1981 concert in Japan. I heard a bit of the Virtu ex Machina bootleg of the same concert which starts with a classical intro that is not on my CD. Are there any other differences in these boots? Mike F. 73353.1432@compuserve.com ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 11:25:10 EST Subject: Re: synths and Numbers bootleg Really-From: peballen@ENG.APPL.GE.COM (pat ballenger) > Really-From: Michael Frantz <73353.1432@compuserve.com> > > > I've got a JD-800 synth and a Casio FZ1 sampler. The JD-800 is great and the > Casio hasn't been switched on in ages. I also live in New York City. Any New > Yorkers interested in setting up a meeting? > > I recently picked up the Numbers bootleg from the Sept. 7, 1981 concert in > Japan. I heard a bit of the Virtu ex Machina bootleg of the same concert which > starts with a classical intro that is not on my CD. Are there any other > differences in these boots? > > Mike F. > 73353.1432@compuserve.com > > Where can I get some of these bootlegs? Does anyone have a price list? Pat B. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:12:36 GMT Subject: WHERE IS THE NEW ALBUM? Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) Following intense speculation through late 94 - early 95 a new album has still not apppeared in the shops. What is going on? If the Mix 2 was completed late in 1994 why hasn't it appeared yet - surely holding it back for too long will make it sound dated when it does appear. Perhaps yet another Kraftwerk album has been scrapped. Does any one know what has happened to Kraftwerks new album. Brian PS: If anyone is interested 'Espiranto' Elektric Musics album is to be found in the 'bargain bin' in many UK record shops. It is priced at =A35.99 (CD). Does anyone know if a new Electrik Music album is likely in the near future. PS2: If you listen to 'Destination Eschaton' by the Shamen you will hear what sounds very much like a sample from Autobahn as the track fades away. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:16:48 GMT Subject: Re: Quality of P. Bussy's book Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) > > > > > >>is the original version of the "Man, Machine and Music" book really >>so good? I've read the German translation, and it's incredibly bad, >>almost infantile writing, with *lots* of grammatical and stylistic >mistakes. >>Is >>this >>also the case with the original English version, or is the German >translator >>(Ingeborg Schober) the one to blame? > > The English version is very nice to read, fluent and synthetic > (with no pun, sorry =8-) !!). About the contents of the book, >the gossips and personal information about R & F are so few >that I just can't believe that they had any motive to protest about >their "privacity"... > > > =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= > carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br > EAESP/FGV > Brasil > > I can't believe anyone would claim the English version of the book is fluent. It is not only rubbish (for the last time its grammatical quality is dreadful!!!!), it is expensive rubbish to boot! The books one redeeming feature is the discography which appears at the end - assumig it is accurate. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 16:22:05 -0500 Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE NEW ALBUM? Really-From: Curryous@aol.com I spoke to someone "in the music business" last week who has had some indirect Kraftwerk dealings in the past. He said there is absolutely, positively a new album of new (not mix material) coming out this year Russ Curry ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:39:36 GMT Subject: RE: Bussy book....Ralph and Florian have lost it Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >I for one am getting whole-hartedly sick to death of Ralph and Florian's >obsessions and paranoia with their author functions I'm sure they'll have sleepless nights over this one!!!! >Even the departure of Bartos & Flur doesn't seem to have shaken them to >their senses! Do you personally know these guys. If NOT stop writing as though your an old aquaintaince. >They should stop their petty attempts to be in 101% control of the minds >of the people who hear their music and make some new bloody records! Stop peddling cobblers such as this. I think the diverse nature of Kraftwerk fans is apparent from this mailing list and for you to suggest we are all brainwashed is pathetic. >david.davis PS:Yes David "Dot" Davis they should release a new bloody record. If they don't soon they will loose the goodwill and enthusiasm which many people still have for them. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:39:38 GMT Subject: Re: Synths Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Really-From: dcakl006@nlmodnet1.mod.nl.mod.nl (ir D. Barth) > > >> Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com >> >> >> Since we are all Kraftwerk and electronic fans, I was wondering....do any of >> us have synths and studios? If so, what synths do you all have and what >> makes up your studios? >> > >Are we going to have the same discussions again? Please read first the >archives of this mailing list. > >Erik Barth > > This list should allow discussion if its members want it!!! Peoples private studios are of no interest to me but I'm not going to cry like a baby if this type of discussion takes place on this list. LET THE MEMBERS CHOOSE. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:45:36 GMT Subject: Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) If Kraftwerk considers itself an industry (since it produces a product and calls its members music workers) then perhaps it will follow in the footsteps of Siemens and Deutsche Bank and relocate to this blissful haven of free market capitalism which we proudly call Great Britain. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:01:55 GMT Subject: RE: Bussy's book. Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Really-From: Nexus > > >-- [ From: Nexus * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > > >Regarding the Bussy book: > >Pascal told me at the time the German release was scheduled that Florian >called him some night to tell him verbatim "Your book, it's shit." They were >very unhappy, apparently, about some personal facts cited in the book (i.e. >Florian's father was architect, etc). Following this Ralf & Florian tried to >cancel the German release by pretending to hold all of the photographs' >right in the book... > >Hope this helps, > >Nexus. > > The main problem with Bussys book is that it giives the impressionm of containing an exclusive interview with the band. What it actually does is rehash interviews which were already in the public domain. Although I do not know the accuracy of all the facts I can say that it is very badly written and it follows therefore that it may have been poorly researched. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 01:39:01 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Quality of P. Bussy's book Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 09:16 PM 3/1/96 +0000, bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) wrote: >I can't believe anyone would claim the English version of the book is >fluent. It is not only rubbish (for the last time its grammatical quality is >dreadful!!!!), it is expensive rubbish to boot! The books one redeeming >feature is the discography which appears at the end - assumig it is accurate. Perhaps Bussy's book is not "fluent," but I do think your attitude of dismissal is selling it short. The appropriate criteria for judging this book should center around its relevance to Kraftwerk history and info, and not the author's grasp (or lack thereof) of the English language. As I mentioned previously, the book may fail to provide details in the greatest of degree, yet it still makes for a noteworthy addition to any Kraftwerk collector's collection. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "The young man stepped into the hall of mirrors..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 20:39:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Bussy's book. Really-From: datta@archive.uwp.edu : Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) : The main problem with Bussys book is that it giives the impressionm of : containing an exclusive interview with the band. What it actually does is : rehash interviews which were already in the public domain. : Although I do not know the accuracy of all the facts I can say that it is : very badly written and it follows therefore that it may have been poorly : researched. Hmmm, this brings back what I posted about the book way back when I read it: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 18:04:10 -0500 From: kraftwerk (kraftwerk mailing list) Subject: The book To: kraftwerk Really-From: David Datta : Really-From: bombuzal : I also read this book, and as I didn't have all the information you may : have, I found the book quite interesting. It is written very easily, and : before you notice, you have read the entire book. Because of the nice : pictures, and because of all kinds of information, I think this book is a : must for all Kraftwerk fans. Oh of course! Any fan (like me!) will want a copy of the book. There is a lot of good information in the book. Almost all of the history is backed up with attributed sources. My problem with the book is the fact that it has too much speculation. We have, in our conversations on this list, speculated and argued back and forth about many of the topics in the book. The book is written like it has the definitive answers and reasons things are the way they are. The fact is, the band has never answered many of these questions and it appears that they never will. The authors acknowledge this: >From the Author's Note: Ultimately however, we must stress that this is not an official biography. Apart from direct interview material, all the appraisal of Kraftwerk's music and image are the opinions of the authors and not necessarily how the various group members see themselves. Given the above statement, they could have just left out their suppositions and stuck with facts. Here is an example of what I mean: (Re: Kraftwerk Album, Page 30) As a result of the difficulty in getting drummers to adapt to their music, the LP also features Florian Schneider on Electronic percussion. This was undoubtedly the result of Schneider's early efforts at building homemade rhythm devices on which he would later so successfully modify and expand. However in choosing Hohman and Dinger they were obviously aware of bringing in two people who were naturally rhythmically inclined, providing a balance in the group between rhythm and experimentation. It also gave more of an impression of a working band of four members, even if all the other instrumentation and compositions were credited to Hutter and Schneider. Now, there is an awful lot of speculation in the above paragraph. The only thing that is "known" is that the LP features Florian on electronic percussion and he built electronic percussion devices. The rest is supposition. Lots of the book is like this. It is written like the author has some great insight into the musicians minds which is total bullshit. The book is full of this kind of stuff. A random paging through the book yields an incredible amount of statements that contain: This could have been intrepeted as .... They were no doubt impressed by .... It is quite easy to understand why .... Perhaps they realised .... Hutter and Schneider were all to aware .... This ... probably .... .... may well have been inspired by .... ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #481 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #482 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Sunday, 3 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 482 P. Bussy's book for sale Ralph plays the Mouth-organ? Yes, he does. Does he? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 20:19:04 +0100 (MET) Subject: P. Bussy's book for sale Really-From: bombuzal I still have some copies of the Pascal Bussy book for sale. Price will be US$20 postage included. Please contact me on bombuzal@xs4all.nl ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 20:46:30 +0100 Subject: Ralph plays the Mouth-organ? Yes, he does. Does he? Really-From: Paulo Mouat > Two quotes (...) to add to the confusion: > > English "Harmonica" = German "Mundharmonika" > German "Harmonika" = English "Accordion" One other to add still more: English "Accordion" = German "Ziehharmonika" (sp?) / "Akkordeon" - -- ********************************* Paulo Mouat, mouat@telepac.pt ********************************* ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #482 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #483 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Monday, 4 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 483 'Ocean of Sound' book, features KW i/v Pascal Bussy's interviews with KW Yamo delay Steinberg covers "The Model" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 18:00:31 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Really-From: Olav Herbst unsubscribe kraftwerk subscribe kraftwerk-digest ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 03 Mar 96 14:57:04 EST Subject: 'Ocean of Sound' book, features KW i/v Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@compuserve.com> I have come across a new book, just yesterday, which contains some text on Kraftwerk. Haven't had a chance to read it properly as yet, but I thought I'd post some details for anyone else thinking on buying it. It is written by David Toop, carving out a niche as something of an authority on the more marginal/ambient musics, author for the UK magazine 'The Wire' he also composes his own music and is an occasional guest on the UK BBC Radio 3's rather fab 'Mixing It' programme (Monday's, 10.45pm) which is where I first heard of this book, some time towards the end of last year I think it was. Ocean of Sound; Aether Talk, Ambient Sound and Imaginary Worlds by David Toop Published by Serpent's Tail ISBN 1-85242-382-X Price (UK 10.99 pounds) Here's an extract from the back cover; 'Sun Ra, Brian Eno, Lee Perry, Kraftwerk, Kate Bush, Aphex Twin, Ryuichi Sakamoto and Brian Wilson are interviewed in this extraordinary work of sonic history that travels from the rainforests of Amazonas to virtual Las Vegas...etc.' The Kraftwerk interview is on pages 200-207 and it actually dates from 1987 - it was originally published in The Face magazine, in February of that year if memory recalls, so it is *not* an interview done especially for this book, which the back cover blurb may otherwise lead you to believe. There is also a double-CD featuring artists covered in the book, but Kraftwerk *do not* appear to be on the CD. (Ain't actually seen it as yet...) BTW; the latest issue of 'The Wire', issue 145, features an article by David Toop entitled 'A to Z of Electro', and, yes, Kraftwerk are indeed in there under the letter K! There's also a nice little colour pic. of the bands robots in 1991 mode. Ian Calder ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 03 Mar 96 15:38:36 EST Subject: Pascal Bussy's interviews with KW Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@compuserve.com> There's been quite a bit of debate about Pascal Bussy's book and whether or not the interviews with Ralf Huetter and Florian Schneider did in fact take place. In issue 8 of Aktivitaet, when it eventually appears, there will be a question/answer session with Pascal Bussy. The questions are culled from a number of the fanzines readers and were answered autumn 1995, they arrived *after* issue 7 appeared. One particular question/answer seems pertinent for an early appearance now; Question; 'How easy/difficult was it for you to gain access to band members themselves for interviews? Were they supportive of the book or more cautious? Florian Schneider for instance has been very, very reluctant to do interviews since the 1970s and it is known that he has told some fans that he was not interviewed for your book, claiming instead it was all made up. Can you understand his attitude about this?' Pascal Bussy's answer; "It was easy to get the interview with Ralf Huetter in Lyons in '91, but he was not supportive to the book project. The interview with Florian Schneider was really made by chance. It was after the gig. It was a good concert, Florian was happy. He had caught a bad cold and he came in the concert hall after the concert to ask/look for some Kleenex! A bunch of fans were there, he began to speak with them, he even signed some Kraftwerk album covers. He was in a very good mood. Then I went up to him, asked for an interview and we spoke for 30/45 minutes." Also worth noting; Pascal also explained that two DAT copies of the interviews are kept in safe keeping should there be reason to prove the authenticity of these interviews at any time. Ian Calder. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 02:17:43 +0000 Subject: Yamo delay Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de The first release of Wolfgang Fluer's new band Yamo will probably be delayed until the end of the year. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 02:17:43 +0000 Subject: Steinberg covers "The Model" Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de A new cover version of "The Model", done by Steinberg (Nick Kevlar and Steve Manchini) is announced to be released this week on Pikosso as a picture shape CD single. The single includes a "Happy Version" and a "Rave Version". The shape of the CD is described as "Grandma sitting in armchair". Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #483 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #484 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 5 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 484 Re: Bussy book....Ralph and Florian have lost it New Kraftwerk album Re: New Kraftwerk album Re: Bussy book....Ralph and Florian have lost it Re: Bussy book....Ralph and Florian have lost it Past KW Merchandising? Re: Bussy book....Ralph and Florian have lost it Re: WHERE IS THE NEW ALBUM? Re: WHERE IS THE NEW ALBUM? Re: Past KW Merchandising? Re: Bussy book....Ralph and Florian have lost it Re: Past KW Merchandising? we are all friends here Re: we are all friends here Re: Past KW Merchandising? Re: we are all friends here Re: Past KW Merchandising? Re: we are all friends here ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 10:33:04 EST Subject: Re: Bussy book....Ralph and Florian have lost it Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle Re David "Dot" Davis' message, Brian writes: >Stop peddling cobblers such as this. I think the diverse >nature of kraftwerk fans is apparent from this mailing list >and for you to suggest we are all brainwashed is pathetic. I think the point david.davis quite clearly expressed was that he feels Kraftwerk waste too much time with their "petty *attempts*" to control how they are perceived by the world outside Klingklang. He didn't say that you or I are brainwashed. You sound as paranoid as Ralph and Florian. I welcome the opinions of people like D "dot" D since they stimulate discussion, and the reason for having a mailing list is to provide a forum for such discussion. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:02:21 -0500 Subject: New Kraftwerk album Really-From: Nthings@aol.com i know there has been alot of speculation about a new album but does anyone think it will actully happen? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:12:12 -0500 Subject: Re: New Kraftwerk album Really-From: Curryous@aol.com I vote that a new KW album will happen this year but who knows for sure? Russ Curry ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:40:53 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Bussy book....Ralph and Florian have lost it Really-From: David Davis What is all this about Bussy's English / grammar being defective ?!?! I honestly can't see what the problem is with his text. Perhaps some of you linguistics professors out there can back up your allegations with some actual examples,hmm ? As mr Carlisle has kindly made clear, of course I wasn't saying all Kraftwerk listeners are brainwashed. What I am calling a touch on the silly side is Ralph efforts to convince us he is a robot. I mean really ...you'll be telling me Michael Jackson is Jesus next. I do love Kraftwerk's music, and it's all the more effective for the imagery woven into it by Ralph and Floian... but I think the point was passed some years ago where their efforts to control their image/audience are actually stifling the production of any music. This is a great shame !!! David:davis ^ ^ (specially for you, Brian dear) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:53:25 GMT Subject: Re: Bussy book....Ralph and Florian have lost it Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Really-From: David Davis > > >As mr Carlisle has kindly made clear, of course I wasn't saying all >Kraftwerk listeners are brainwashed. >What I am calling a touch on the silly side is Ralph efforts to convince >us he is a robot. I mean really ...you'll be telling me Michael Jackson >is Jesus ne to the best of my knowledge Ralph has never claimed to be a robot. Are we talking about the sane band. >but I think the point was passed some years ago where their efforts to control >their image/audience are actually stifling the production of any music. >This is a great shame !! Since they haven't made an album for 10 years this isn't a great revelation - - is it? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 21:48:43 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu Fellow Kraftwerkians, Many of you have been interested in the music of Kraftwerk for a long time now. Does anyone know if Kraftwerk ever officially released any memorabilia or merchandising for promotional or other purposes? By merchandising, this can be anything from T-shirts to posters to whatever isn't simply their recordings. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "It's in the air for you and me..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:51:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Bussy book....Ralph and Florian have lost it Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) >What I am calling a touch on the silly side is Ralph efforts to convince >us he is a robot It's obvious that Ralph is not exactly "normal" and also that he loves robots. Anyway, it's kind of like the vampyre thing. Some people are so obsessed with vampyres and wish so much to be one that they pretend they are one and try to convince others that they truely are one. These kind of people are just doing their thing. This type of activity is something that makes them happy or at least makes them feel better and I find behavior such as this quite interesting at times but I usually just ignore it. People just get into these mind sets and sometimes these mind sets can seem quite strange to others but they usually don't care how strange it seems. They know what they like and it shows in their personality. Any psychologists reading this? Do I know what i'm talking about? JoN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:48:32 GMT Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE NEW ALBUM? Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Really-From: Curryous@aol.com > > >I spoke to someone "in the music business" last week who has had some >indirect Kraftwerk dealings in the past. He said there is absolutely, >positively a new album of new (not mix material) coming out this year > >Russ Curry > If you are going to make such statements you should at least reveal your sources. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:25:34 -0500 Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE NEW ALBUM? Really-From: Curryous@aol.com I don't feel comftorable with revealing my source for various reasons, however I think he is probably correct. He may well be incorrect. Who knows? Russ Curry ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 18:17:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: "Gerald E. Withers" Anyone still heve some of those Radioactivity stickers that came with the Album. I used all mine years ago and have learned to reget it. Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/100HD 030/882/5Mb 50Mhz 401 Euclid Ave //// makes A2386 & VGA 150MB HD Syracuse N.Y. 13210 \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum 28/24 gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 23:28:30 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Bussy book....Ralph and Florian have lost it Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 03:51 PM 3/4/96 -0500, slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) wrote: > It's obvious that Ralph is not exactly "normal" and also that he >loves robots. Anyway, it's kind of like the vampyre thing. Some people are >so obsessed with vampyres and wish so much to be one that they pretend they >are one and try to convince others that they truely are one. These kind of >people are just doing their thing. This type of activity is something that >makes them happy or at least makes them feel better and I find behavior >such as this quite interesting at times but I usually just ignore it. Well, I was going to stay out of this particular discussion if I could avoid it, but I just had to jump in here. I certainly do not think it is fair or appropriate to pass judgment and make such an outrageous and ludicrous statement as 'It's obvious that Ralph is not exactly "normal"'. For starters, I do not believe that any of have the right to present any universal standards of morality regarding the definition of 'normality'. Secondly, I personally love robots too. Perhaps that makes me 'abnormal' as well. If so, I'll gladly accept the title. Finally, it seems absurd to liken Ralf to someone with a vampyre obsession. We can all draw those same exact comparisons between ourselves and some central interest of ours. It seems to me that some of you have been spending a bit more time lately putting down Ralf & Florian, rather than praising them for their wonderful and revolutionary contributions. If this is the case, so be it. I just wanted to have it recognized. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "I'm the antenna catching vibrations..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 19:02:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com i have a radioactivity sticker - 2 of them - one is pasted on my mercedes, the other is taped to it :-) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 19:10:38 -0500 Subject: we are all friends here Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) > Well, I was going to stay out of this particular discussion if I >could avoid it, but I just had to jump in here. I certainly do not think it >is fair or appropriate to pass judgment and make such an outrageous and >ludicrous statement as 'It's obvious that Ralph is not exactly "normal"'. >For starters, I do not believe that any of have the right to present any >universal standards of morality regarding the definition of 'normality'. >Secondly, I personally love robots too. Perhaps that makes me 'abnormal' as >well. If so, I'll gladly accept the title. Finally, it seems absurd to >liken Ralf to someone with a vampyre obsession. We can all draw those same >exact comparisons between ourselves and some central interest of ours. > It seems to me that some of you have been spending a bit more time >lately putting down Ralf & Florian, rather than praising them for their >wonderful and revolutionary contributions. If this is the case, so be it. >I just wanted to have it recognized. Hmmm.... well then I wouldn't concider you "normal" either. To the average person a love of robots is enough for them to think you are crazy. Robots are great! I sure as hell don't concider myself normal because I don't have a problem with gays, I am open minded, I don't dress "normal", I appreciate music made by humans using machines, I am an athiest, half the time my mind is either in a medieval forest or a futuristic cyber war, ect......I could go on for days, anyway.... I wouldn't concider Ralph a "normal" person because he does likes robots alot, he is mildly famous, he is probably very smart(no I have never talked to him but based on all he has done....), ect..... I don't for sure know if he even thinks he is a robot but if he does I surely wasn't trying to put him down because of it. I was just talking a bit about people who like to pretent they are something they are not, hell I even do it once in a while. I would like to think that we are all friends on this list because the wonderful and as you said "revolutionary" music of Kraftwerk bonds us as fans. I mean so what, Kraftwerk are weird and a bit crazy to the mainstream, i'll admite it, but aren't we all in some ways? :) JoN "the young man stepped into the hall of mirrors...." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:23:50 -0500 Subject: Re: we are all friends here Really-From: RudyD44@aol.com unsubscribe kraftwerk ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 19:31:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) >i have a radioactivity sticker - 2 of them - one is pasted on my mercedes, >the other is taped to it :-) That's cool. I've been lately thinking about getting a Saab(an old one but a Saab non the less). About KW merchandise, a mail order catalog called Isolation tank sells long and short sleeved The Robots t-shirts. I know, it's hard to believe but it's true. Finding a poster is my next goal. JoN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 03:02:36 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: we are all friends here Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 07:10 PM 3/4/96 -0500, slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) wrote: >Hmmm.... well then I wouldn't concider you "normal" either. To the average >person a love of robots is enough for them to think you are crazy. Robots As I mentioned previously, this is taken as a complement. Any positive efforts made to break away from the herd-conformity of the mainstream is an effort worth applauding. >are great! I sure as hell don't concider myself normal because I don't have >a problem with gays, I am open minded, I don't dress "normal", I appreciate What you are actually talking about are the opinions of the mindless masses, and not what is "normal". If one were to literally interpret your above statement, it would appear that you are saying that having a problem with gays is "normal". Even if most people in society did have some sort of homophobia, this should by no means be considered "normal". Just because one large group of people have a particular set of opinions, values, and beliefs, that does not make it acceptable for that group to dictate all that is "normal" in society. There are no universal morals or standards of normality. Most people may consider Ralf Hutter to be a bit bizarre as he lives a very isolated, privatized life, but this is one of the things that makes him all the more "normal" in my particular vision. My normality is one which finds agreement with Ralf's interests and seclusions. >ect..... I don't for sure know if he even thinks he is a robot but if he >does I surely wasn't trying to put him down because of it. I was just >talking a bit about people who like to pretent they are something they are >not, hell I even do it once in a while. I don't believe that Ralf ever made a statement to the effect that he literally believes himself to be a robot. He was most likely speaking of the fact (as he has done in numerous interviews) that mankind often operates from one day to the next in a very machinistic manner, thus demonstrating the presence of the robot inside of us all. Kraftwerk used robots as metaphors and symbols of what we are and have always been, and perhaps always will be. Now then, enough philosophy....back to Kraftwerk! :O) Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Eins...Zwei...Drei...Vier..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 03:11:19 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 07:31 PM 3/4/96 -0500, slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) wrote: >About KW merchandise, a mail order catalog called Isolation tank sells long >and short sleeved The Robots t-shirts. I know, it's hard to believe but >it's true. Finding a poster is my next goal. > >JoN Have an address (snail mail or e-mail) I can write to in order to receive that catalog (assuming the company is still in business)? Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "We're charging our battery..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 03:11:21 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: we are all friends here Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 08:23 PM 3/4/96 -0500, RudyD44@aol.com >unsubscribe kraftwerk Hey friends, I just had to re-post this one. It made my day and brought a big smile to my face to see this post pop up with the subject line reading "Re: we are all friends here", and then open the letter to find someone unsubscribing. How ironic. ;o) Letting the truth be known, we are all 'friends' here in the sense that we are united by a common bond, Kraftwerk. I can recall seeing this list go through some pretty dry-spells when it came to posting and discussion, so I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who's been participating in all the varied conversations lately. It's nice to know the list members are alive, and not actually 'robots' after all. hehe. (Ralf would be proud) ;o) Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Even the greatest stars..." ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #484 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #485 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 5 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 485 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 9:59:18 MET Subject: Re: past merchandising Really-From: Hillebrand Boorsma - -> - -> Fellow Kraftwerkians, - -> - -> Many of you have been interested in the music of Kraftwerk for a - -> long time now. Does anyone know if Kraftwerk ever officially released any - -> memorabilia or merchandising for promotional or other purposes? - -> merchandising, this can be anything from T-shirts to posters to whatever At the concerts in Utrecht and Groningen I bought a blue autobahn-sign T-shirt and a fluorecent yellow "Stop radioactivity" bicycle shirt. The last one draws some attention to you if you wear it, for the radioactive symbol is in fluorescent orange. Just the same colors as on the (very well printed) single CD of radioactivity from "The Mix". And there's a 'Robot' poster from their concerts at Groningen, Gent and Osnabrueck. Note: This is (semi?) official stuff since it was sold inside the theatre. In utrecht some guys were selling 'bootlegged' posters after the concert. The nicest KW gadget I saw was the special edition Casio pocket calculator which by pressing down a special key plays a little melody. It was sold at an auction of KLEM (the dutch club for electronic music) for about Dfl. 300,-, I think. _______________________________________________________________________________ Hillebrand Boorsma=Boorsma@tn.tudelft.nl=+31.15.2785038(wrk) +31.15.2615553(pri) "Dream carefully...." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 10:52:53 +0100 Subject: Re: we are all friends here Really-From: Paulo Mouat > It's nice to know the list members are alive, and not actually > 'robots' after all. hehe. Speak for yourself! Blip, Blip, vrrrrrr... :-) - -- ********************************* Paulo Mouat, mouat@telepac.pt ********************************* ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:20:39 +0100 (NFT) Subject: Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: KentKSHBSiv On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) > > > >i have a radioactivity sticker - 2 of them - one is pasted on my mercedes, > >the other is taped to it :-) > > > That's cool. I've been lately thinking about getting a Saab(an old one but > a Saab non the less). > About KW merchandise, a mail order catalog called Isolation tank sells long > and short sleeved The Robots t-shirts. I know, it's hard to believe but > it's true. Finding a poster is my next goal. > I have a 90 x 30 cm Kraftwerk poster on my wall, It's all black with the robot image from 'The mix' in white, has 'KRAFTWERK' written with a 'computerized' typeface in yellow. In the lower right corner is written 'The mix - Tour '91' in white and yellow. /Daniel Nilsson ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:56:47 +0000 Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #484 Really-From: DHOLTON@derwent.co.uk >anyone still have some of those Radioactivity stickers that came with the >Album. I used all mine years ago and have learned to regret it. Yes, if you mail me your address I'll send them to you. On the subject of merchandise I bought a computerworld tshirt in 1981(?) and a poster (man machine - which I suspect was a bootleg).They were also selling computerworld tshirts when I went to a gig in Munich. On the subject of output I gave up worrying about it years ago.At one point I bought Sounds and Melody Maker religiously for ten years waiting for a mention but no joy The other day to kill the pain I bought KW2 (which I had never heard).Unfortunately I did not like it. I had to swap it for ABDUCTION by EAT STATIC which is brilliant. Years ago I was all geared up to fly out to Detroit to watch them.As I was heavily into rap,Electro etc. I thought that this would have been the best ever (Munich audience was very muted) From what I can gather they never played US post 1970s(?) If this is the case then I think they have let down some of their fans - no doubt about it.I am lucky enough to have seen them six times. Dave Holton ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #484 Author: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu at Internet Date: 05/03/96 2:01 ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 05 Mar 96 11:02:54 EST Subject: Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: Jonathan.Jones@bbc.co.uk (Jonathan Jones) I also Have a Kraftwerk Poster which I am Very Proud of. I bought it in the street(off a very dodgy bloke) after Their concert in the Birmingham Hummingbird club in 91'.Its the same picture as the cover of the Man Machine Album (Red&Black) I know its not an official product but who cares............... Jonathan Jones ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 09:08:52 -0300 Subject: Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) > Many of you have been interested in the music of Kraftwerk for a >long time now. Does anyone know if Kraftwerk ever officially released any >memorabilia or merchandising for promotional or other purposes? By >merchandising, this can be anything from T-shirts to posters to whatever >isn't simply their recordings. I have a poster of The Mix album; a blue background with Ralf's robot in the centre (same picture of the cover), surrounded by the four heads of the cover of Electric Cafe (??), and KRAFTWERK in red at the top and THE MIX in yellow (same lettering of the cover) in the bottom. It measures around 1,20m x 0,60m. I don't know if is a official poster, but was used to promote the album in Brazil around '91. The layout is a little strange, with the blend of two different album covers, so I believe that was made by another foreign office of the record company (maybe in USA?). Anyone knows that poster ? =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:59:30 +0100 Subject: Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: d-sunjan@jmk.su.se (Jan Sundstrom) >Does anyone know if Kraftwerk ever officially released any >memorabilia or merchandising for promotional or other purposes? Oh yes. I got a few things but not a lot. I think Ian Calder will help you out, i think there was an article in Aktivitat about this. >By >merchandising, this can be anything from T-shirts to posters to whatever... I got (only official stuff noted): T-shirt black, Autobahn logo, UK dates -91 T-shirt blue, Autobahn logo, UK dates -91 T-shirt black, Autobahn logo, European dates -91 T-shirt black, Radioactivity -91 T-shirt white, robot logo -91 Concert poster, robot logo Stockholm -91 Press photo (The robots) -91 also a bunch of promo papers/press releases from the albums copy of the Japan Tour Program -81 I also know about: _real_ pocket calculator -81 T-shirt black, Pocket Calculator -81 shop promo "mobile", to hang from the ceiling, Electric Caf=E9 heads -86 The Mix shop poster -91 The Mix 3-D shop stand -91 Individual tour posters from all UK gigs -91 I don't bother listing the non-official stuff, which consists of pins/buttons, posters, stickers, T-shirts, etc etc... Jan Sundstrom "I guess i'm alone I left a message on your mobile my way home" The Verve - 'Come On' ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:06:03 +0100 Subject: Merchandising/ RA stickers Really-From: d-sunjan@jmk.su.se (Jan Sundstrom) >Anyone still heve some of those Radioactivity stickers that came with the >Album. I got the US ones, that you have to lick on. I wonder if the germans were real tack-on, or did you have to wet them too? Jan Sundstrom "I guess i'm alone I left a message on your mobile my way home" The Verve - 'Come On' ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:17:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Merchandising/ RA stickers Really-From: "Gerald E. Withers" On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > Really-From: d-sunjan@jmk.su.se (Jan Sundstrom) > > > >Anyone still heve some of those Radioactivity stickers that came with the > >Album. > > I got the US ones, that you have to lick on. I wonder if the germans were > real tack-on, or did you have to wet them too? > The German ones were real stick-on's ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:46:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE NEW ALBUM? Really-From: "Gerald E. Withers" On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > Really-From: Curryous@aol.com > > > I don't feel comftorable with revealing my source for various reasons, > however I think he is probably correct. > He may well be incorrect. Who knows? > > Russ Curry > So what is the name of this album supposed to be? Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/100HD 030/882/5Mb 50Mhz 401 Euclid Ave //// makes A2386 & VGA 150MB HD Syracuse N.Y. 13210 \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum 28/24 gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:27:07 -0500 Subject: KW T shirts!!!! Really-From: Nthings@aol.com where can i get KW tee shirts???? anyone have an adress to a catalog or something??? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 05 Mar 96 18:01:37 EST Subject: KW memorabilia Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@compuserve.com> > Many of you have been interested in the music of Kraftwerk for a > long time now. Does anyone know if Kraftwerk ever officially released any > memorabilia or merchandising for promotional or other purposes? By > merchandising, this can be anything from T-shirts to posters to whatever > isn't simply their recordings. Probably because Kraftwerk have never had a particularly large fan base there is a definite scarcity of memorabilia available these days. There has indeed been official merchandise available at past concerts and the like though, as well as record company promo-only items. An article about such memorabilia was carried in issue 4 of Aktivitaet, I hope that I'll be able to post this article, or an update, to the list at some future point. In the meantime, a brief taster; There were official T-shirt designs on sale at the concert halls for the bands 1991, 1992 and 1993 concerts in europe. The 1991 and 1992 ones were standard T-shirts, though there were also long sleeve ones if I recall. One or two of the designs were also later on sale in music stores too. The bands 1993 concerts in Germany, Belgium, Holland and Austria saw some merchandise on sale that was not available previously; cycling shirts! (yes!) a blue one with white 'Autobahn' motif and a very bright yellow one with day-glo 'Radio-Activity' graphics as per the 1991 single sleeve. There were also one or two other items; the UK concerts for instance there was a white and black 'radioactivity' button badge and the bands 'Klang Art' concert appearance in Osnabrueck in 1993 also had some merchandise specific to this one appearance available (e.g. concert poster, programme etc.) There is a merchandise sheet, which I came by a copy of from one of the mailing lists regulars, Gunther Poecker, that displays all the items available on the late-1981 German tour, there's plenty here; a red 'Man Machine' design T-shirt, a set of fourteen Kraftwerk A4 and A3 size artwork sheets (various designs, all good stuff), various stickers ('Dentaku', 'Radio-Activity', 'Pocket Calculator', 'Autobahn', 'Man Machine', 'Computer Welt' etc.) Spoilt for choice! There were also items on sale at other concerts in 1981. There is definitely a 'Pocket Calculator' design T-shirt and also a variant of the 'Man Machine' one, with only 'text', no band pic. There was also at least one design of Kraftwerk tie available at the UK shows. The 1981 Japanese dates saw an excellent tour programme on sale, with many exclusive live pix of the band and their mannequins. And no doubt plenty more too. This is just a quick skim through, I'm sure there's plenty more official and many, many more bootleg items available. In terms of record company promo items I think the most in-demand seems to be the Kraftwerk pocket calculator (a Casio, natch!) that was given out in a 'Computer Welt' box. There are also items like an 'Electric Cafe' mobile, a 'Telephone Call' telephone pad stand-up counter stands, posters/flats etc etc. I hope that this is an interesting taster then for all would-be KW memorabilia fans! Ian Calder ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 20:27:57 -0500 Subject: Car Tape Compilation--Update Really-From: mach25@indy.net (Fred Becker) I was re-recording my compilation tape using the CD's. They play faster than the turntable I was using, so more music fits on a tape. (The CD's do not sound as good as the original LP's, however!) I altered the playlist and got some different tracks on the tape for awesome results. German Music Car Tape by Fred Becker Most pieces produced by/with Conny Plank 90 Minutes TO BE PLAYED AT MAXIMUM VOLUME Side 1 Album Deluxe (Immer Wieder) 9:45 Harmonia, Deluxe, 1975 Isi 5:00 Neu!, Neu 75, 1975 Elektrisches Roulette 4:19 Kraftwerk, Ralf & Florian, 1973 Klinklang ~15:40 (less bell intro) Kraftwer, Kraftwerk 2, 1971 Tanzmusik 6:34 Kraftwerk, Ralf & Florian, 1973 Kristallo (faded out at 5:48) Kraftwerk, Ralf & Florian, 1973 Side 2 Hollywood 4:40 Cluster, Zuckerzeit, 1974 Fontana di Luna 6:39 Michael Rother, Sterntaler, 1977 Sowiesoso 7:17 Cluster, Sowiesoso, 1976 Seeland ~6:57 (less rain ending) Neu!, Neu 75, 1975 E-Musik ~10:00 (less wind intro/end) Neu!, Neu 75, 1975 Dino 3:30 Harmonia, Musik von Harmonia, 1974 Rheinita 7:37 La Dusseldorf, Viva, 1978 Heisse Lippen 2:20 Cluster, Zuckerzeit, 1974 Try it! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 19:45:34 -0500 Subject: Re: we are all friends here Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) >>are great! I sure as hell don't concider myself normal because I don't have >>a problem with gays, I am open minded, I don't dress "normal", I appreciate > > What you are actually talking about are the opinions of the mindless >masses, and not what is "normal". If one were to literally interpret your >above statement, it would appear that you are saying that having a problem >with gays is "normal". Even if most people in society did have some sort of >homophobia, >this should by no means be considered "normal". Just because one large >group of people have a particular set of opinions, values, and beliefs, that >does not make it acceptable for that group to dictate all that is "normal" >in society. There are no universal morals or standards of normality. Most >people may consider Ralf Hutter to be a bit bizarre as he lives a very >isolated, privatized life, but this is one of the things that makes him all >the more "normal" in my particular vision. My normality is one which finds >agreement with Ralf's interests and seclusions. > >>ect..... I don't for sure know if he even thinks he is a robot but if he >>does I surely wasn't trying to put him down because of it. I was just >>talking a bit about people who like to pretent they are something they are >>not, hell I even do it once in a while. > > I don't believe that Ralf ever made a statement to the effect that >he literally believes himself to be a robot. He was most likely speaking of >the fact (as he has done in numerous interviews) that mankind often operates >from one day to the next in a very machinistic manner, thus demonstrating >the presence of the robot inside of us all. Kraftwerk used robots as >metaphors and symbols of what we are and have always been, and perhaps >always will be. Now then, enough philosophy....back to Kraftwerk! :O) Hello. I was going to disagree with a certain thing you just said but after reading it over a few more times I concluded that you are right. Please excuse my high school ignorance(yep, i'm a senior in high school). Next time I will try to think more before I respond to such discussions. Thanks. JoN "....discover themselves in the looking glass" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 20:00:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) >>About KW merchandise, a mail order catalog called Isolation Tank sells long >>and short sleeved Robots t-shirts. > Have an address (snail mail or e-mail) I can write to in order to >receive that catalog (assuming the company is still in business)? Certainly. I should've just posted it the first time. It's- ISOTANK @ Net Com. Com and ISOLATION TANK P.O. BOX 336 JENKINTOWN, PA 19046 U.S.A. JoN "altered music shadow covers" - Ogre ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 20:28:04 -0500 Subject: Re: past merchandising Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) >The nicest KW gadget I saw was the special edition Casio pocket calculator >which by pressing down a special key plays a little melody. It was sold >at an auction of KLEM (the dutch club for electronic music) for about >Dfl. 300,-, I think. That somewhat reminds me of the Speak & Spell made by Texas Instruments in the late 70's and early 80's. I still have the one my grandma bought me when I was 4 or 5. Kraftwerk uses a Speak & Spell in the very beginning of the track Home Computer off the album Computer World. When I got this cd just last year I was immediatly taken back to my childhood upon hearing two sounds from the Spk & Spl. As a child I was somewhat scared of these sounds but also facinated. I would just keep hitting the buttons until one of my parents would make me stop. Anyway, a few months ago I dug out our old Speak & Spell to discover that it worked very poorly(actually great for industrial sounds) and sounded quite satanic. After messing with it for about 20 min. and recording the sound, it stopped working. I am no electronics repair expert so it still doesn't work. Yes, I tried different batteries. I also have reason to believe that KW may have used a Speak & Spell for more than just the two weird sounds though. Some of the vocals on the album Computer World sound almost exactly like I remember my little Spk & Spl sounding when it said words. Maybe I don't know what the hell i'm talking about but I think I am correct. Anyone? JoN "BUSINESS NUMBERS MONEY PEOPLE" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 20:37:12 -0500 Subject: Re: we are all friends here Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) >Speak for yourself! >Blip, Blip, vrrrrrr... :-) That's funny!!! :-] JoN ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #485 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #486 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 7 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 486 Re: past merchandising Speak, perhaps, Spell kraftwerk on tour again? Re: Quality of P. Bussy's book Re: New Kraftwerk album Re: New Kraftwerk album Re: Past KW Merchandising? Re: Past KW Merchandising? Re: WHERE IS THE NEW ALBUM? Re: Past KW Merchandising? Re: past merchandising The Messiah Saabs and Re: Past KW Merchandising? Speak & Spell Do Ralf and Florian like Saabs too? Re: Speak, perhaps, Spell ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:13:32 +0100 Subject: Re: past merchandising Really-From: d-sunjan@jmk.su.se (Jan Sundstrom) >I also have reason to believe that KW may have used a Speak & Spell for >more than just the two weird sounds though. Anyone know what Electric Music uses in Baby Come Back? I mean those cheesy little "Oh!" "Ey!" that comes inbetween the chorus. I like'm, it sound like a girl or a child is saying them... Also, i remember there was a synth/calculator that you could program by plaing the digits. One german magazine published a manual on how to play some KW tracks with this machine. I believe the sounds after "pressing down a special key..." originated from this. Maybe this was the speak & spell, i've never seen those machines? Jan Sundstrom "It's you and me against the world and the world is turning" The Verve - 'You and me' ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:50:27 -0500 Subject: Speak, perhaps, Spell Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Yes - "Computer World" uses it too. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:06:47 -0500 Subject: kraftwerk on tour again? Really-From: Nthings@aol.com if kraftwerk makes a new album, do you think that they will ever tour in the USA??? <<<>>>>> "Its sad that the man who wins aint always right" -Snakefinger '86 ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:42:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Quality of P. Bussy's book Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com I thought the English version of Bussy's book was excellent. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:51:27 -0500 Subject: Re: New Kraftwerk album Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com Y-y-yes I think it will happen. The alternative is unthinkable! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:54:34 -0500 Subject: Re: New Kraftwerk album Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com Which will happen first? (Pick one): 1. New Kraftwerk album 2. Existence of extraterrestrials on Earth finally proven 3. Second Coming of the Messiah ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:56:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com About five years ago my brother purchased a white-on-black "Autobahn" tour T-shirt in Scotland!! along with a black-on-white shirt featuring the line drawing of the robot from The Mix album with the word "Kraftwerk" below it. This was during a visit to the UK. Neither of us has even seen any others since. If you see someone in NYC wearing the "Autobahn" shirt, you know it's me! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:59:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com Forgot to mention I once bought two Kraftwerk buttons (black with multicolored "Computer World" type design of four band members' heads) in 1991 in Dublin Ireland! I've also seen promotional posters for the fromt and back cover of Computer World, and a too-cool Electric Cafe hanging mobile in 1987, featuring the four band members' heads, that the record store owner would not sell me even after shameless begging. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:00:53 -0500 Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE NEW ALBUM? Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com Don't tease us like that! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:07:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com Ahh, at last i get a chance to vent about Saabs! We own a 1988 Saab 9000. Bought it from a relative, beautifully maintaned at a great price. Soon after we purchased it, things started going wrong (has about 60,000 miles on it). Th electrical system in particular is quite flaky--fuses blowing on the power window circuit; battery dies after 1 1/2 years; heating system phases in and out of reality; gages sometimes don't shut off, or come on even when there's no problem. Cost of repairs is disgusting. Nevertheless, my wife loves it, and I hate it. I shouldn't be writing this; will probably jinx it even more! Maybe I got a lemon...? Wish I still had my 1968 Pontiac Le Mans! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:25:34 +0000 Subject: Re: past merchandising Really-From: "Gustav Holmberg" > Really-From: d-sunjan@jmk.su.se (Jan Sundstrom) > > > >I also have reason to believe that KW may have used a Speak & Spell for > >more than just the two weird sounds though. > > Anyone know what Electric Music uses in Baby Come Back? I mean those cheesy > little "Oh!" "Ey!" that comes inbetween the chorus. I like'm, it sound like > a girl or a child is saying them... > > Also, i remember there was a synth/calculator that you could program by > plaing the digits. One german magazine published a manual on how to play > some KW tracks with this machine. I believe the sounds after "pressing down > a special key..." originated from this. Maybe this was the speak & spell, > i've never seen those machines? Years ago, mideighties, I had a Casio FX...something that could be played in this way, using the interface normally used for storing programs. I even made some (experimental) music with it! > > Jan Sundstrom > > "It's you and me against the world > and the world is turning" The Verve - 'You and me' > > > > Gustav Holmberg, PhD student, History of Science and Ideas Lund University, Sweden. Gustav.Holmberg@fil.lu.se http://www.df.lth.se/~wilt ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:03:18 -0500 Subject: The Messiah Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com will end, unless aliens come and save it - or the inhabitants of earth finally are appeased with a new Kraftwerk album! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 19:58:58 -0500 Subject: Saabs and Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) >Ahh, at last i get a chance to vent about Saabs! We own a 1988 Saab 9000. >Bought it from a relative, beautifully maintaned at a great price. Soon after >we purchased it, things started going wrong (has about 60,000 miles on it). >Th electrical system in particular is quite flaky--fuses blowing on the power >window circuit; battery dies after 1 1/2 years; heating system phases in and >out of reality; gages sometimes don't shut off, or come on even when there's >no problem. Cost of repairs is disgusting. Nevertheless, my wife loves it, >and I hate it. I shouldn't be writing this; will probably jinx it even more! >Maybe I got a lemon...? Wish I still had my 1968 Pontiac Le Mans! Hopefully it's just a lemon(no offense intended) because I have this attraction to the Saab body styling and will hopefully get at least an old one, in which case it would be nice if they were indeed high quality automobiles. I should probably say something about KW. *IF* they do have a new album and go on tour(please let it be true!), will they come to the US? Why exactly I would think anyone here is qualified to answer that, I am not sure. A yes would be hopefull though. JoN "....and suddenly the picture was distorted" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:42:48 -0500 Subject: Speak & Spell Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) >Also, i remember there was a synth/calculator that you could program by >plaing the digits. One german magazine published a manual on how to play >some KW tracks with this machine. I believe the sounds after "pressing down >a special key..." originated from this. Maybe this was the speak & spell, >i've never seen those machines? > Well, the speak & spell does some great sounds but the special key was on that casio unit it think. JoN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:42:41 -0500 Subject: Do Ralf and Florian like Saabs too? Really-From: ChipLamb@aol.com Dear All: I am a loyal Saab owner for all you Saab freaks out there (I even have the in-dash CD player which is quite fond of Kraftwerk by this point - when I hit random it always plays "Computer World" from the Mix first!!!) Although I too have had weird problems, it is unmistakably the best car out there for hauling all the way over to sport driving. I don't however think much of the new Saabs (funded by General Motors who bought Saab Cars Division in 1992); they are too much like everything else on the market. So whomever it was planning on buying an older 900, contact me; I happen to know good and bad years for certain cars (turbo vs non-turbo, et.c.) Now back to the topic at hand...Gesamtkunstwerk? NOT!!! (jus' kidding Paolo and Klaus!) Long Live Kraftwerkians!! The Chipper "I'm the antenna, catching vibrations" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:41:26 -0500 Subject: Really-From: ChipLamb@aol.com - -06 15:04:43 EST, kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) writes: >Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com > > >will end, unless aliens come and save it - or the inhabitants of earth >finally are appeased with a new Kraftwerk album! I await the day to sing the Hallelujah chorus when a new KW album hits the streets!! LOL forever. The Chipper "For the Lord God and Kraftwerk omnipotent reigneth....Hallelujah!" -Chipper's addition to Handel's Messiah Forwarded message: From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Sender: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Date: 96-03-06 15:04:43 EST that Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com will end, unless aliens come and save it - or the inhabitants of earth finally are appeased with a new Kraftwerk album! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:41:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Speak, perhaps, Spell Really-From: ChipLamb@aol.com Gee I had a Speak and Math once. I'll just have to dig it out and start my own band. Cheers! The Chipper "It's in the air...For you and me" ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #486 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #487 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Friday, 8 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 487 Re: Saabs and Re: Past KW Merchandising? Re: Saabs and Re: Past KW Merchandising? Re: Saabs and Re: Past KW Merchandising? Re: Speak, perhaps, Spell Re: The Messiah Re: Saabs and Re: Past KW Merchandising? Re: Do Ralf and Florian like Saabs too? Re: Saabs and Re: Past KW Merchandising? Re: The Messiah Tour De France available on CD Re: The Messiah Re: Tour De France available on CD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 12:11:42 +0100 Subject: Re: Saabs and Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: Bjorn Knutsson > Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) > > >Ahh, at last i get a chance to vent about Saabs! We own a 1988 Saab 9000. > >Bought it from a relative, beautifully maintaned at a great price. Soon after > >we purchased it, things started going wrong (has about 60,000 miles on it). > >Th electrical system in particular is quite flaky--fuses blowing on the power > >window circuit; battery dies after 1 1/2 years; heating system phases in and > >out of reality; gages sometimes don't shut off, or come on even when there's > >no problem. Cost of repairs is disgusting. Nevertheless, my wife loves it, > >and I hate it. I shouldn't be writing this; will probably jinx it even more! > >Maybe I got a lemon...? Wish I still had my 1968 Pontiac Le Mans! > > Hopefully it's just a lemon(no offense intended) because I have this > attraction to the Saab body styling and will hopefully get at least an old > one, in which case it would be nice if they were indeed high quality > automobiles. I should probably say something about KW. *IF* they do have a > new album and go on tour(please let it be true!), will they come to the US? > Why exactly I would think anyone here is qualified to answer that, I am not > sure. A yes would be hopefull though. Sounds like a lemon to me, although I know SAAB did have some quality problems with the first 9000s, and I guess a '88 might be old enough to be affected. Generally speaking, SAABs are considered to be one of the better buys. I bought myself a 1980 SAAB 900 a couple of years ago, and for what I could sell it for today, I could buy a 1985 Toyota or Mazda. Haven't had any major problems with my SAAB so far, only what you'd expect from over 15 years of wear and tear on Swedish roads. Of course, getting spare parts etc is probably *much* cheaper here in Sweden, especially if you go for used parts. SAABs (and VOLVOs) are pretty popular here in Sweden - most other cars give you problems during the winters, especially when they're a couple of years old. /Bjorn ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 12:13:35 EST Subject: Re: Saabs and Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle Oh for god's sake kraftwerk WILL YOU MAKE A NEW BLOODY RECORD!!! If only to stop all this inexplicable discourse on SAABS OF ALL THINGS!! AHINE I suppose this is what you get for saying mailing list subscribers should be free to discuss anything.... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:12:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Saabs and Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) >Oh for god's sake kraftwerk WILL YOU MAKE A NEW BLOODY RECORD!!! If >only to stop all this inexplicable discourse on SAABS OF ALL THINGS!! > AHINE >I suppose this is what you get for saying mailing list subscribers >should be free to discuss anything.... Strangly enough, I think that Saabs somehow fit Kraftwerk, their music, and their fans. Don't hurt me too bad, i'm still a minor. JoN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:43:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Speak, perhaps, Spell Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) >Gee I had a Speak and Math once. I'll just have to dig it out and start my >own band. Sure, why not? I wish my damn Speak & Spell would work. JoN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:01:30 -0500 Subject: Re: The Messiah Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com My brother has a theory that Kraftwerk either are in contact with aliens, or are aliens--that's why their music sounds so...otherworldly! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:04:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Saabs and Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com No offense taken. In fact I've got a friend wo owns three Saabs and he loves 'em all. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:04:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Do Ralf and Florian like Saabs too? Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com Is it time for me to buy a can of yellow paint? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:06:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Saabs and Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com Oops, sorry! Point taken! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:15 -0500 Subject: Re: The Messiah Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) >My brother has a theory that Kraftwerk either are in contact with aliens, or >are aliens--that's why their music sounds so...otherworldly! That's kind of ironic because Ralph & Florian on vinyl has a picture of alien spaceships on each side. JoN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:41:48 -0600 Subject: Tour De France available on CD Really-From: Phil Lefkowitz I found a company that is selling the Tour de France EP on CD. Call World Wide CD at (612) 551-9222 and ask for Stu. Let me know what you think, as I have not yet purchased it. Phil mplefkow@gsbpop.uchicago.edu ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 03:54:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: The Messiah Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu Here's a wacky theory for ya: Perhaps when the Messiah finally does come to the Earth, it will appear in the form of the new Kraftwerk album! Thus, it will appear, we'll all have a chance to listen to the album once, and then armageddon will break loose directly following the event, killing everyone on the planet. Happy thought, huh? :O) Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "ananas symphonie......ananas symphonie......" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 02:31:00 EST Subject: Re: Tour De France available on CD Really-From: kraftwerk@MIT.EDU >Really-From: Phil Lefkowitz > >I found a company that is selling the Tour de France EP on CD. Call World >Wide CD at (612) 551-9222 and ask for Stu. Let me know what you think, as I >have not yet purchased it. > >Phil >mplefkow@gsbpop.uchicago.edu This was the bootleg that I was refering to when I sent mail a few weeks ago saying how frustrated I was loooking. The price I was quoted a month ago for the above by Stu was $85 + $6 shipping! Please let us know if the price is more reasonable now... Henning Colsman-Freyberger kraftwerk@mit.edu ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #487 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #488 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Saturday, 9 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 488 RE: Tour De France available on CD KW and SAABS ???? Re: The Messiah Re: Saabs and Re: Past KW Merchandising? KRAFTWERK TO MAKE COMEBACK Re: kraftwerk on tour again? Re: The Messiah Re: KW and SAABS ???? RE: Tour De France available on CD Re: Past KW Merchandising? Re: KRAFTWERK TO MAKE COMEBACK Re: kraftwerk on tour again? Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Capitol vs. Cleopatra ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 06:00:26 +0800 (U) Subject: RE: Tour De France available on CD Really-From: "Freeman, Lon C." >>Really-From: Phil Lefkowitz >> >>I found a company that is selling the Tour de France EP on CD. Call World >>Wide CD at (612) 551-9222 and ask for Stu. Let me know what you think, as I >>have not yet purchased it. >> >>Phil >>mplefkow@gsbpop.uchicago.edu >This was the bootleg that I was refering to when I sent mail a few weeks ago >saying how frustrated I was loooking. The price I was quoted a month ago for >the above by Stu was $85 + $6 shipping! Please let us know if the price is >more reasonable now... >kraftwerk@mit.edu I called the guy yetserday and he told me it would be $125.00 for that 4 track CD! Lon freeman@msmail.bms.com ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 12:01:13 +0100 (MET) Subject: KW and SAABS ???? Really-From: Hillebrand Boorsma About Saabs and KW: I think you are misjudging all of this. Imho Volkswagen is THE Kraftwerk car, considering their music being industrial electronic _volks_musik. Look at the Autobahn cover, listen to the delicious Kaefer sound at the start of the track. That's it. That's all. A 4 cylinder air-cooled boxer. I think the Kaefer symbolises the industrial worker spirit KW also tries to materialise in their music. As I heard, KW used to drive mercedes cars, but stopped it for environmental reasons. At the concert in Groningen, they came by black Volkswagen Polos. The closest I got to the Autobahn feeling was in a Volkswagen Golf I, driving from the Netherlands to Kassel playing different versions on tape of Autobahn for about 3 hours. And I drove from Trier to Koeln in a 1970 Mercedes 200 listening to these tapes. My next step to experience Autobahn will be aquiring a Kaefer, build in a CD-player and drive through the Ruhrgebiet for a day. But this will take some time to organise etc. Untill then I'll stick to my Renault 4GTL (Ok, it's french, but also has this industrial-standarised-mass-production feeling that a Saab definitely lacks). Hillebrand = boorsma@tn.tudelft.nl ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:50:09 -0500 Subject: Re: The Messiah Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com The one listen will be worth it. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:56:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Saabs and Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com maybe that Saab ain't so bad after all.... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 21:23:12 GMT Subject: KRAFTWERK TO MAKE COMEBACK Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) I have several suggestions for how R & F can revive their flagging careers. 1) Release 'Kraftwerk Unplugged', sub-titled '40 minutes silence', the album recieves widespread critical acclaim, with reviewers claiming it pushes forward the boundaries of electronic music to new hights. 2) Kraftwerk re-release the model as a remixed Kate Moss version. 3) Hutter announces he will be running to be Chancellor of Germany. Helmut Kohl is rumoured to be concerned. 4) Hutter announces to the world that he really is a robot. Any other suggestions....... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 21:10:25 GMT Subject: Re: kraftwerk on tour again? Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Really-From: Nthings@aol.com > > >if kraftwerk makes a new album, do you think that they will ever tour in the >USA??? ><<<>>>>> > >"Its sad that the man who wins aint always right" -Snakefinger '86 > > It's unlikely they will EVER tour the states again. Lets be honest, the reason the Mix tour of the USA was cancelled was due to lack of interest in the americas. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 21:54:25 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: The Messiah Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 01:50 PM 3/8/96 -0500, Spotnik@aol.com wrote: >The one listen will be worth it. I agree wholeheartedly. Regardless, there hasn't been a good armageddon in quite some time anyway, so I'll be looking forward to it. :O) Eschatologically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "The young man stepped into the hall of mirrors..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:14:51 -0500 Subject: Re: KW and SAABS ???? Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) >About Saabs and KW: > >I think you are misjudging all of this. Imho Volkswagen is THE Kraftwerk >car, considering their music being industrial electronic _volks_musik. > >Look at the Autobahn cover, listen to the delicious Kaefer sound at the >start of the track. That's it. That's all. A 4 cylinder air-cooled boxer. >I think the Kaefer symbolises the industrial worker spirit KW also tries to >materialise in their music. > >As I heard, KW used to drive mercedes cars, but stopped it for environmental >reasons. At the concert in Groningen, they came by black Volkswagen Polos. > >The closest I got to the Autobahn feeling was in a Volkswagen Golf I, driving >from the Netherlands to Kassel playing different versions on tape of Autobahn >for about 3 hours. And I drove from Trier to Koeln in a 1970 Mercedes 200 >listening to these tapes. > >My next step to experience Autobahn will be aquiring a Kaefer, build in a >CD-player and drive through the Ruhrgebiet for a day. But this will take >some time to organise etc. Untill then I'll stick to my Renault 4GTL >(Ok, it's french, but also has this industrial-standarised-mass-production >feeling that a Saab definitely lacks). Well, I never said that Saab is the most fitting car but it sure kicks the shit out of a Crysler. JoN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 00:02:55 +0000 Subject: RE: Tour De France available on CD Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de > I called the guy yetserday and he told me it would be $125.00 for that 4 track > CD! Is the exact tracklisting of this CD known? Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 00:02:56 +0000 Subject: Re: Past KW Merchandising? Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de > I have a poster of The Mix album; a blue background with Ralf's robot in the > centre (same picture of the cover), surrounded by the four heads of the cover of Electric > Cafe (??), and KRAFTWERK in red at the top and THE MIX in yellow (same lettering of the > cover) in the bottom. It measures around 1,20m x 0,60m. I don't know if is a official > poster, but was used to promote the album in Brazil around '91. The layout is a little > strange, with the blend of two different album covers, so I believe that was made by another > foreign office of the record company (maybe in USA?). > Anyone knows that poster ? It seems that this is the same motive as on the posters sold outside the concert halls after the 1991and 1993 German concerts. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 18:03:36 -0500 Subject: Re: KRAFTWERK TO MAKE COMEBACK Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) >I have several suggestions for how R & F can revive their flagging careers. > >1) Release 'Kraftwerk Unplugged', sub-titled '40 minutes silence', the album >recieves widespread critical acclaim, with reviewers claiming it pushes >forward the boundaries of electronic music to new hights. > >2) Kraftwerk re-release the model as a remixed Kate Moss version. > >3) Hutter announces he will be running to be Chancellor of Germany. Helmut >Kohl is rumoured to be concerned. > >4) Hutter announces to the world that he really is a robot. > >Any other suggestions....... why, yes! 5) Kraftwerk signs to American Recordings who make them redo the new album so it sounds more like Nine Inch Nails. 6) Kraftwerk teams up with Pantera to record a full length industrial metal album. anyone else? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 18:08:29 -0500 Subject: Re: kraftwerk on tour again? Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) >>if kraftwerk makes a new album, do you think that they will ever tour in the >>USA??? >> >It's unlikely they will EVER tour the states again. Lets be honest, the >reason the Mix tour of the USA was cancelled was due to lack of interest in >the americas. Well, maybe we don't have that many *Kraftwerk* fans here but alot of people like techno, industrial, goth, .... and alot of the hardcore fans of that stuff would surely see Kraftwerk live if they came. Maybe they could just play in New York, Chicago, and LA at least. JoN "she's our model and she's looking good" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 19:46:15 -0600 Subject: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Really-From: Phil Lefkowitz Let us try to use this forum to increase our purchasing power for the Tour de France CD!!I think those of us who are interested in purchasing this item all e-mail one person and that person will tally how many potential orders of the Tour de France cd we have. Thus, we will be able to negoitate a better price from World Wide CD. I am sure we can get at least 20 orders. With 20 orders, we can bargin the price from $85 to at least $35. My question is who wishes to be the "conduit" for the e-mails and the ordering/negotiating? At time of purchase we will provide our individial payment methods (direct to World Wide) and shipping. Sound like a good idea? Phil mplefkow@gsbpop.uchicago.edu >>>Really-From: Phil Lefkowitz >>> >>>I found a company that is selling the Tour de France EP on CD. Call World >>>Wide CD at (612) 551-9222 and ask for Stu. Let me know what you think, as I >>>have not yet purchased it. >>> >>>Phil >>>mplefkow@gsbpop.uchicago.edu > >>This was the bootleg that I was refering to when I sent mail a few weeks ago >>saying how frustrated I was loooking. The price I was quoted a month ago for >>the above by Stu was $85 + $6 shipping! Please let us know if the price is >>more reasonable now... > >>kraftwerk@mit.edu > >I called the guy yetserday and he told me it would be $125.00 for that 4 track >CD! > >Lon >freeman@msmail.bms.com > > > > ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 09 Mar 1996 00:40:23 EST Subject: Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Really-From: kraftwerk@MIT.EDU >Really-From: Phil Lefkowitz > >Let us try to use this forum to increase our purchasing power for the Tour >de France CD!!I think those of us who are interested in purchasing this item >all e-mail one person and that person will tally how many potential orders >of the Tour de France cd we have. Thus, we will be able to negoitate a >better price from World Wide CD. I am sure we can get at least 20 orders. >With 20 orders, we can bargin the price from $85 to at least $35. My >question is who wishes to be the "conduit" for the e-mails and the >ordering/negotiating? At time of purchase we will provide our individial >payment methods (direct to World Wide) and shipping. Sound like a good idea? Excellent suggestion! I volunteer to be the conduit. If you are possibly interested in obtaining a Tour de France CD, send an email according to the following format: To: kraftwerk@mit.edu Subject: Tour de France CD order I am willing to spend up to $nn. There is NO OBLIGATION to do anything if you send me mail. The price you would be willing to pay is only to give me an idea of how to bargain. Do not write a ridiculously low figure such as $10, this will not get the price down. What I imagine is when I am quoted a price of $85, I can say "That's nice. How about 20 copies at $25 a piece?" and then settle on a figure such as $30. I will contact the people who contact me before I call Stu. Any questions/suggestions? Henning Colsman-Freyberger kraftwerk@mit.edu http://web.mit.edu/henning/www/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 22:31:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Really-From: dougt@netcom.com (Doug Terrebone) OR, if anyone wants, for $25 + postage I will copy this Tour de Kraft bootleg I picked up a while back to a CD for you... It has: 1. Tour de France - French version 2. Tour de France - Remix 3. Tour de France - 10 Speed Instrumental 4. Tour de France - 10 Speed Mix 5. Radioactivity - Wm Orbit Hardcore Mix 6. Radioactivity - Wm Orbit Remix 7. Radioactivity - Kevorkian Remix 6. Telephone Call - Remix 7. Telephone Call - House Phone 8. Telephone Call - Der Telefon Anruf 9. Computerwelt - Special Mix 10. Musique Non Stop - Kevorkian 7" Mix Sound quality is generally excellent (record pops can sometimes be heard)... Send me Email if interested (dougt@netcom.com) Thanx, Doug ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 22:43:15 +0000 () Subject: Capitol vs. Cleopatra Really-From: Brian MacDonald Sorry if this is an overdiscussed issue. What's the history of post-Autobahn Kraftwerk CD reissues? I see both Capitol and Cleopatra versions for Radioactivity, Trans-Europe Express, The Man*Machine, and Computer World (although I've yet to see a Cleopatra version of The Man*Machine and Computer World) I've been sticking with the Capitol CDs personally.. as they are cheaper and sound great! I know it shouldn't be an issue, but I'd feel almost embarrassed to buy the Cleopatra versions, even if they were the same price or cheaper than the Capitol versions. There something,..ur... not right about the packaging. Again, I SHOULDN'T feel weird about it because it's the music that counts... but there's something about the Cleopatra rework of the art that seems slimy... Does anyone else understand what I'm getting at? K!z!K "You stand behind me... with a TV and a keyboard that someone has lent... you. You're good at standing still. I am good at singing. We love it. It pays our rent." -- Raw Sex ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #488 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #489 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Sunday, 10 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 489 Re: Capitol vs. Cleopatra Re: Capitol vs. Cleopatra Tour de france CD order Re: Tour de france CD order ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 09 Mar 1996 14:39:07 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Capitol vs. Cleopatra Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 10:43 PM 3/8/96 +0000, Brian MacDonald wrote: >What's the history of post-Autobahn Kraftwerk CD reissues? I see >both Capitol and Cleopatra versions for Radioactivity, Trans-Europe >Express, The Man*Machine, and Computer World (although I've yet to see a >Cleopatra version of The Man*Machine and Computer World) As far as my knowledge goes, Cleopatra has thus far only re-issued 'Radio-Activity', 'Trans-Europe Express', and 'The Man-Machine', all 3 of which I own and which were also released by Cleopatra in the Kraftwerk "Capitol Years" CD boxed set. In addition to these 3, Cleopatra has also issued two versions of their "best of" CD called 'The Model', as well as a 5 song CD EP called 'Showroom Dummies'. I personally own all of the aforementioned CDs rather than the Capirol releases simply because those were the only ones my record stores were carrying at the time. Since then, I have seen the difference in the artwork on the covers, so I understand what you're talking about. The Cleopatra cover for 'Radio-Activity' is tinted green instead of black and white, the cover to 'Trans-Europe Express' is tinted gloomier than the original and the album's title is in the wrong place, and the cover of 'The Man-Machine' features a close-up shot of KW's necks up instead of the whole body picture in the red suits. As disheartening as this was to learn, I stuck with my Cleopatra CDs simply because I already had them, the sound quality wasn't terrible or anything, and I didn't want to bother with buying the new Capitol re-mastered artwork releases. >I've been sticking with the Capitol CDs personally.. as they are cheaper >and sound great! About a month or so ago, I posted a question to this list asking why the Cleopatra releases cost more than the Capitol ones if they had the wrong artwork and supposedly poorer sound quality, but I never got a response from anyone, so the world may never know. ;oP >I know it shouldn't be an issue, but I'd feel almost embarrassed to >buy the Cleopatra versions, even if they were the same price or cheaper >than the Capitol versions. There something,..ur... not right >about the packaging. Again, I SHOULDN'T feel weird about it because it's >the music that counts... but there's something about the Cleopatra >rework of the art that seems slimy... Does anyone else understand >what I'm getting at? Yes, for some time I was embarrassed about letting anyone find out that I owned the Cleopatra re-issues, but with time and a little counseling, I've finally begun to speak out publicly about my collection again. Wait a minute - this is starting to sound like an AA meeting for KW collectors - "Hi (stands up before the peer group)....My name is Scott and um (looks around the room anxiously).....and I own Cleopatra re-issues." Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "We are the robots..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 09 Mar 1996 11:51:58 -0300 Subject: Re: Capitol vs. Cleopatra Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) >I know it shouldn't be an issue, but I'd feel almost embarrassed to >buy the Cleopatra versions, even if they were the same price or cheaper >than the Capitol versions. There something,..ur... not right >about the packaging. Again, I SHOULDN'T feel weird about it because it's >the music that counts... but there's something about the Cleopatra >rework of the art that seems slimy... Does anyone else understand >what I'm getting at? I thoght that is a very good idea to buy the *original* German-lyric albums, in the German releases, and the Cleopatra's re-issues. Then, you have the original cover designs and the re-issues packages (that contains some pretty good pictures, also !!!), with the English-lyrics. I use to do that and in my opinion that's the best solution !!! =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 11:27:43 -0500 Subject: Tour de france CD order Really-From: Nthings@aol.com i am willing to pay up to $25 plus S and H add me to the list of people trying to get it! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 09:37:10 -0800 Subject: Re: Tour de france CD order Really-From: l.meyer@ix.netcom.com (L. Meyer ) You wrote: >Really-From: Nthings@aol.com >i am willing to pay up to $25 plus S and H >add me to the list of people trying to get it! Me too: $25 + s/h. |_ |\/| --- L.Meyer@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #489 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #490 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Monday, 11 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 490 Re: Capitol vs. Cleopatra Kraftwerk at Linz Re: Kraftwerk at Linz Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 01:00:52 -0800 Subject: Re: Capitol vs. Cleopatra Really-From: sampo@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Georg Donde) I've always wondered why a lot of Cleopatra reissues had different cover art from the original... I own all the Kraftwerk releases on cleo, as well as the Capitol versions, and, IMHO, there's not that much difference in sound quality. But, another album cover butchered by Cleopatra is Laibach's Nova Akropola. For a while, I had a sneaking suspision that this may be a way to avoid paying royalties to the artists...if anyone cares to comment on that, I would like to hear their opinions. Cleopatra apparently does not have a good track record of securing permissions from the artists: Dave Vanian apparently was never approached about including his track on The whip compilation, and, last I heard, he was quite upset about it. I'd like to stay away from Cleo releases for this reason, but it is difficult: some stuff (Synesthesia, for example) is only available, to my knowledge from them. Cheers, Georg "Earth Is the Cradle Of Humanity, But We Cannot Spend All Our Life In the Cradle" ---Tsiolkovsky "And pray that there is intelligent life somewhere up in space cos there's bugger all down here on Earth" ---Monty Python ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 01:46:28 -0800 Subject: Kraftwerk at Linz Really-From: Staggman@eworld.com Did anyone see KW play at Linz, Austria in June 1993? Or does anyone know the set list or have any more info about the show? I assume that the set was similar to the Gronigen/Ghent/Osnabruck shows a month earlier, but would like confirmation. I know that this was the show where Florian donned the MOGLI midi-glove - can anyone tell me what he did with it?! Mark Stagg. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:08:42 +0000 Subject: Re: Kraftwerk at Linz Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de > Did anyone see KW play at Linz, Austria in June 1993? I assume that the set was > similar to the Gronigen/Ghent/Osnabruck shows a month earlier, but would like > confirmation. Yes, the set was *very* similar to the earlier shows, with only one exception: "Die Mensch-Maschine" was played before "Tour de France", while it followed "Tour de France" in the shows at Groningen/Gent/ Osnabrueck. The only other major changes were slightly different intros to "Heimcomputer" and "Musique non stop". > I know that this was the show where Florian donned the MOGLI > midi-glove - can anyone tell me what he did with it?! He used it for the "Musique non stop" intro, when he left his console to trigger the initial "Boings", "Booms" and "Tschaks" with this device. After one or two minutes he returned to his console, and everything went the normal way. BTW: There's a rumour of a secret Kraftwerk gig one or two days before the Linz concert, allegedly held either in Germany or Austria. Is there any truth behind this? Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 11:49:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Really-From: NLavely@aol.com In a message dated 96-03-09 01:33:38 EST, you write: >OR, if anyone wants, for $25 + postage I will copy this Tour de Kraft >bootleg I picked up a while back to a CD for you... It has: you have a cd-r and are willing to make a copy? i will take one! nick ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #490 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #491 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 12 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 491 Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! CARS Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Re: CARS Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Re: KRAFTWERK TO MAKE COMEBACK Re: CARS Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Re: KRAFTWERK TO MAKE COMEBACK Newton's Apple Theme Re: Newton's Apple Theme Re: Newton's Apple Theme ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 00:59:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Really-From: dougt@netcom.com (Doug Terrebone) Yes, I have a CD-R and software to copy it digitally... Here's the track listing: 1. Tour de France - French Version.........6:45 2. Tour de France - Remix..................6:45 3. Tour de France - 10-Speed Instrumental..4:44 4. Tour de France - 10-Speed Mix...........3:50 5. Radioactivity - Orbit Hardcore Mix......6:13 6. Radioactivity - Orbit Remix.............7:22 7. Radioactivity - Kevorkian Remix.........7:25 8. Telephone Call - Remix..................8:12 9. Telephone Call - House Phone............4:58 10. Telephone Call - Der Telefon Anruf.....3:47 11. Computer World - Special Mix...........5:04 12. Musique Non Stop - Kevorkian 7" Mix....4:10 Send me you address and I'll send it out USPS COD... Thanx, Doug ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:19:09 +0000 (GMT) Subject: CARS Really-From: David Davis " ... the truth is - comfort kills ... ... and you don't need that car " Phil Oakey 1979 ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 10:21:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Really-From: gewither@mailbox.syr.edu (gewither) >-- Really-From: dougt@netcom.com (Doug Terrebone) >Yes, I have a CD-R and software to copy it digitally... >Here's the track listing: >1. Tour de France - French Version.........6:45 >2. Tour de France - Remix..................6:45 >3. Tour de France - 10-Speed Instrumental..4:44 >4. Tour de France - 10-Speed Mix...........3:50 >5. Radioactivity - Orbit Hardcore Mix......6:13 >6. Radioactivity - Orbit Remix.............7:22 >7. Radioactivity - Kevorkian Remix.........7:25 >8. Telephone Call - Remix..................8:12 >9. Telephone Call - House Phone............4:58 >10. Telephone Call - Der Telefon Anruf.....3:47 >11. Computer World - Special Mix...........5:04 >12. Musique Non Stop - Kevorkian 7" Mix....4:10 >Send me you address and I'll send it out USPS COD... >Thanx, >Doug Please send me one. Jerry Withers 1215 Madison Str. Syrracuse NY. 13210 Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/950HD 030/882/17Mb 50Mhz //// makes A2386 & VGA & 150MB HD gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum 28/24 - \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 CD-ROM ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 11:15:22 EST Subject: Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Really-From: peballen@ENG.APPL.GE.COM (pat ballenger) > Really-From: gewither@mailbox.syr.edu (gewither) > > > > >-- Really-From: dougt@netcom.com (Doug Terrebone) > > > >Yes, I have a CD-R and software to copy it digitally... > >Here's the track listing: > >1. Tour de France - French Version.........6:45 > >2. Tour de France - Remix..................6:45 > >3. Tour de France - 10-Speed Instrumental..4:44 > >4. Tour de France - 10-Speed Mix...........3:50 > >5. Radioactivity - Orbit Hardcore Mix......6:13 > >6. Radioactivity - Orbit Remix.............7:22 > >7. Radioactivity - Kevorkian Remix.........7:25 > >8. Telephone Call - Remix..................8:12 > >9. Telephone Call - House Phone............4:58 > >10. Telephone Call - Der Telefon Anruf.....3:47 > >11. Computer World - Special Mix...........5:04 > >12. Musique Non Stop - Kevorkian 7" Mix....4:10 > > >Send me you address and I'll send it out USPS COD... > > >Thanx, > >Doug > > Please send me one. > > Sorry about this folks, but: ME TOO!!! How much are you charging, doug? - Pat B. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:29:41 -0500 Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Wow, someone else who likes Human League. Reproduction is the best album by far - the words are really great and the music is wonderful....! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:12:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Really-From: yankel On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > > >Send me you address and I'll send it out USPS COD... > > > > >Thanx, > > >Doug > > > > Please send me one. > > > > > Sorry about this folks, but: > > ME TOO!!! How much are you charging, doug? - Pat B. Since we're stooping to this level: ME TOO !!!!! - Jon |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| THE OMEN It's really opinionated. It's got style. It's Hampshire College's school newspaper. It's at http://hamp.hampshire.edu/~omen/index.html |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:24:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Really-From: fl12@cornell.edu (fernando) >> >-- Really-From: dougt@netcom.com (Doug Terrebone) Just a suggestion on efficiency -- the above line says the address of the person being so kind to this stuff. So, although the Reply sends it to the list, I hope your software allows a change or redirect. >> >Yes, I have a CD-R and software to copy it digitally... >> >Here's the track listing: [we have seen it, of course] How about a DAT copy option? This could be cheaper for some. >Sorry about this folks, but: me too! ;^) >ME TOO!!! How much are you charging, doug? - Pat B. So then we can avoid this going to whole list. As we know, nobody else can help. thanks, fernando ___________ * Fernando Lopez-de-Victoria * ::: fl12@cornell.edu ::: fldv@ee.cornell.edu ::: PO Box 3906 -- Rhodes Hall #397, Cornell University <> Ithaca, NY 14852-3906 -- Ithaca, NY 14853 <> 607.257.8218/1838 [vox/fax] -- 607.254.8819 [vox]___________________<> ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:35:52 -0500 Subject: Re: KRAFTWERK TO MAKE COMEBACK Really-From: prabhu@cs.umass.edu (Rajesh Prabhu) someone wrote: >I have several suggestions for how R & F can revive their flagging careers. > >1) Release 'Kraftwerk Unplugged', sub-titled '40 minutes silence', the album >recieves widespread critical acclaim, with reviewers claiming it pushes >forward the boundaries of electronic music to new hights. Now there, why should "KU" be all silence? Didn't they use acoustic instruments in the pre-Autobahn albums? In fact, when I first heard "Ruckzuck" I couldn't help but wondering why they gave up on the flute in the later albums! - -- Rajesh ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:06:18 -0500 Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (Steve Lang) > " ... the truth is - comfort kills ... > > ... and you don't need that car " > > Phil Oakey 1979 Ok, well I know that's just a quote but I just want a Saab. I don't want it so others will think I have money or for comfort reasons. I think a Saab would fit me, that's all. JoN "even the greatest stars...." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:56:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Really-From: dougt@netcom.com (Doug Terrebone) Send me your address and I'll send it for $25+shipping&COD... Thanx, Doug ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 14:05:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Tour De France available on CD: Everyone Please Read!!!! Really-From: dougt@netcom.com (Doug Terrebone) Just send me your address and I'll send it out for $25+shipping&COD... Thanx, Doug ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:48:05 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: KRAFTWERK TO MAKE COMEBACK Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 01:35 PM 3/11/96 -0500, prabhu@cs.umass.edu (Rajesh Prabhu) wrote: > Now there, why should "KU" be all silence? Didn't they use acoustic >instruments in the pre-Autobahn albums? > > In fact, when I first heard "Ruckzuck" I couldn't help but wondering why >they gave up on the flute in the later albums! > >-- Rajesh True, the first 3 albums including the fourth album 'Autobahn' incorporated a mixture of synthsized sounds, drum machines, AND acoustic instruments like guitars, drums, flute, violin, bass, and so on. I must agree with you in that as much as I love ALL of Kraftwerk's material, I do kind of wish that Florian had continued to utilize the flute sound in later recordings. It had become a Kraftwerk staple and trademark from 1970-1974 which graced songs like "Ruckzuck", "Tongebirge", "Heimatklange", and "Morgenspaziergang". Oh well, at this rate, with all the uncertainty as to whether or not new material will be released at all, I'd better not start whining about how I miss Florian's flute sound. hehe... Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "business...numbers...money...people..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:48:08 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Newton's Apple Theme Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu Fellow Kraftwerkians, I just threw on public television so I could catch the opening intro sequence to the "Newton's Apple" program. As you all know, this TV show always used the beginning of Kraftwerk's "Ruckzuck" as its theme music. What I want to mention to you now is that 1) although the show still uses "Ruckzuck" for the opening theme, there has been additional music (piano and sound effects) added on top of the Kraftwerk recording to make it sound more rock-oriented (which in my opinion makes it sound really bad), and 2) Kraftwerk was NOT credited anywhere at the end of the show for writing the opening music!! This I couldn't believe. This program samples "Ruckzuck" right off of the 'Kraftwerk' album and doesn't even have the decency or common courtesy even to give them writing credit?? As a matter of fact, the only credit at the end of the show that was even related to music at all simply said, "Open Music", and right underneath it were the words "Absolute Music". Does anyone know what the hell's the story with this one? Isn't it against the laws of copyright protection for "Newton's Apple" to use KW's music without crediting them? Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "We start to move...and we break the glass!" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:20:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Newton's Apple Theme Really-From: Curryous@aol.com Is it really the KW track? I was always under the impression it was a sound-alike track?? Russ Curry ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:53:56 +0000 () Subject: Re: Newton's Apple Theme Really-From: Brian MacDonald Regarding "Ruckzuck", a good friend and bandmate of mine swears he's heard this song used as background for live basketball games in Portland! I didn't believe this was possible at first... Now that I hear this, it's more likely the sports director taped the theme to Newton's Apple. Regarding copyright issues, aren't Ralf and Florian supposedly embarrassed of this early material (seemingly the only reason why it's relegated to bootlegs)? If so, they probably wouldn't want to be credited for it. Then again, how old is the show Newton's Apple? Which leads to a more relevant question... When did Ralf and Florian decide to ax their first three albums? K!z!K "You stand behind me... with a TV and a keyboard that someone has lent... you. You're good at standing still. I am good at singing. We love it. It pays our rent." -- Raw Sex ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #491 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #492 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 13 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 492 Re: Newton's Apple Theme When were the early LP's deleted? Is it ok to sell kraftwerk vinyl on this list ? Re: Is it ok to sell kraftwerk vinyl on this list ? Re: Is it ok to sell kraftwerk vinyl on this list ? kraftwerk videos KW stuff for sale... RE: KW stuff for sale... Re: KW stuff for sale... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:06:09 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Newton's Apple Theme Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 06:20 PM 3/11/96 -0500, Curryous@aol.com wrote: >Is it really the KW track? I was always under the impression it was a >sound-alike track?? As far as I can tell, it is an identical sampling off the original Kraftwerk recording right down to the last breath of flute. Years ago, it used to be that "Newton's Apple" would simply play the track as it appeared on the KW album, but nowadays the show has added additional music to the song making it sound very poor indeed. At first I wasn't even going to put the show on yesterday because I tuned in about 2 months ago and they played an entirely different theme song having no Kraftwerk relevance whatsoever. I thought they had abandoned the KW intro that they've been using for years. However, sure enough, "Ruckzuck" was back in the intro (and outro) yesterday, but this time with rock accompaniment by piano and acoustic drums. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "We are the robots..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 12 Mar 96 14:36:54 EST Subject: When were the early LP's deleted? Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@compuserve.com> > Really-From: Brian MacDonald > Which leads to a more relevant question... When did Ralf and Florian > decide to ax their first three albums? My own guess would be around about 1982... I recall that the Vertigo material was still available new in 1981, with 'Computer World' then released there was also the Vertigo 'Elektro Kinetik' compilation in the UK, to cash in on 'CW's success no doubt. I forget exactly when, but it was sometime in 1982 or 83, a friend of mine wrote to Vertigo records in the UK, asking when they would be re-issuing 'Ralf and Florian' on LP. The reply from Vertigo stated that the rights to the release of the material now belonged to Kraftwerk, so it was up to them now. Whether Kraftwerk actually bought the rights or whether they reverted back to them after a certain contracual time period is not known, but it does explain why 'Autobahn' is available via their *current* record label(s) (Warners/Elektra in the USA and EMI in the UK/Germany etc.). Also, it was announed in 1982 that EMI were to re-release 'Autobahn', so they must have at least had the rights to release this LP, probably also the others ('KW', KW2', 'R&F') ? So, I would say that it may have been around about 1982, possibly 83, when the Vertigo label relinquished the rights to release this material. Since then, only 'Autobahn' has been re-issued from this early period of their work. One slightly related topic ... considering the proliferation of compilation LP's culled from the Vertigo/Philips era tracks released in the UK/Germany/France /Canada etc., it always seemed surprising that there was never such a compilation put together for the US market, especially considering how successful the 'Autobahn' single was in the States? Also, because 'KW' and 'KW2' were never issued in the US, seems like another reason why there should have been a compilation? Ian Calder ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 17:33 EST Subject: Is it ok to sell kraftwerk vinyl on this list ? Really-From: dvrt@passport.ca (Dave Rout) i was just wondering if it's ok to sell KW stuff on this list...i have a good collection of vinyl (about 40 pieces) and after about 10 years of collecting records i need to let go of some of them...would someone let me know if this is ok ? thanks, dave " i'm the operator with my pocket calculator " -kw- ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 17:33:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Is it ok to sell kraftwerk vinyl on this list ? Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (Steve Lang) > i was just wondering if it's ok to sell KW stuff on > this list...i have a good collection of vinyl > (about 40 pieces) and after about 10 years of > collecting records i need to let go of some of > them...would someone let me know if this is ok ? Well, I haven't been on here too long but I don't think anyone would mind. I would maybe buy some. JoN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 19:25:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Is it ok to sell kraftwerk vinyl on this list ? Really-From: Nthings@aol.com send the list! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 19:39:10 -0500 Subject: kraftwerk videos Really-From: Nthings@aol.com does any one have any kraftwerk music videos that they would sell >>??? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 20:38 EST Subject: KW stuff for sale... Really-From: dvrt@passport.ca (Dave Rout) o.k...quite a few people said it was ok to sell KW stuff here, so here goes... lp's - ---- kraftwerk (double lp uk 1972) kraftwerk (single lp japan 1970 , red cone on front) ralf and florian (canada 1973 , no comics) exceller 8 (canada vertigo 1974) exceller 8 (canada mercury 1974) elektro kinetik (u.k 1974) autobahn (canada mercury 1974) autobahn (canada phillips 1974) autobahn (uk 1974 , blue and white "highway" cover) radioaktivitat (germany , full sheet of stickers !) trans europe express (canada 1977) die mensch maschine (germany 1978) the man machine (canada 1978) computerworld (canada 1981) electric cafe (germany 1986) electric cafe (canada 1986) the mix (germany 1991) the mix (uk 1991) 12" - --- showroom dummies (uk) the model (uk) trans europe express (us) trans europe express (can) computerwelt (ger. special mix kling klang) neon lights (uk glow in the dark vinyl !) musique non stop (can) the telephone call (can) die roboter (france) 1991 radioaktivitat (france) 1991 tour de france (uk remix) tour de france (canada french remix) 7" - -- radioaktivitat (ger. 1976) showroom dummies (uk) t.e.e (ger) pocket calculator (canada promo) numbers (canada promo) the telephone call (usa promo) the robots (uk 1991) cassettes pocket calculator (cardboard calculator box) robots (canada only compilation cassette) vinyl boot double vinyl 1981 (yellow jacket with russian writing) (possibly munich or firenze,italy ?) cd boots live in cologne 1975 hyper cerebral machine 1981 firenze italy elite recordings - remixes with sex object demo !) ultra rare trax - remixes heute abend - double cd 1991/1992 uk/italy videos - ------ i have 2 videos full of KW. they are taped on fast speed for a total of 4 hours of stuff... includes live in 1991 - 1992 camcorder stuff and various promo videos, the 18 minute autobahn animated movie, live clips from man machine and computerworld tours, interviews , and full videos of neon lights, trans europe express , the model , the telephone call , and musique non stop plus lots more...i'll copy these for the first ten people only , as a lot of the stuff on these masters is not the greatest quality, i'll need two blank chrome tapes and postage (inquire for info)...however i'm still taking care of requests from last year , so expect at least a month or two for the videos...anyways , that's the list...i also have old magazines from the 70's and 80's as well... please email me if interested in any of these goodies thanks, dave " i'm the operator with my pocket calculator " -kw- ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 20:21:12 -0600 Subject: RE: KW stuff for sale... Really-From: Phil Lefkowitz Dave: I am interested in the below cd. How much??? I would like to combine my order with the request for video. heute abend - double cd 1991/1992 uk/italy Phil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 23:46:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: KW stuff for sale... Really-From: lotus@connectnet.com (*+*) how much are you asking for these records: >lp's >---- > >kraftwerk (double lp uk 1972) >kraftwerk (single lp japan 1970 , red cone on front) > >cassettes > >pocket calculator (cardboard calculator box) >vinyl boot > >double vinyl 1981 (yellow jacket with russian writing) > (possibly munich or firenze,italy ?) > >cd boots > >live in cologne 1975 >videos >------ > >i have 2 videos full of KW. they are taped on fast speed for a >total of 4 hours of stuff... i am intersted in these too as far as sending you videotapes + postage. thanks, david *+* ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #492 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #493 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 14 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 493 Re: KW stuff for sale... RE: KW stuff for sale... Re: KW and SAABS ???? Re: KW stuff for sale... KW videos...i've got my first ten people... Tour de Kraft CD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 01:10:11 -0800 Subject: Re: KW stuff for sale... Really-From: sampo@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Georg Donde) >videos >------ > >i have 2 videos full of KW. they are taped on fast speed for a >total of 4 hours of stuff... >includes live in 1991 - 1992 camcorder stuff and >various promo videos, the 18 minute autobahn >animated movie, live clips from man machine and >computerworld tours, interviews , and full videos of >neon lights, trans europe express , the model , >the telephone call , and musique non stop plus >lots more...i'll copy these for the first ten people >only , as a lot of the stuff on these masters is not >the greatest quality, i'll need two blank chrome tapes >and postage (inquire for info)...however i'm still >taking care of requests from last year , so expect at >least a month or two for the videos...anyways , that's >the list...i also have old magazines from the 70's and >80's as well... I am definitely interested. Please let me know the postage/etc. info... Georg "Earth Is the Cradle Of Humanity, But We Cannot Spend All Our Life In the Cradle" ---Tsiolkovsky "And pray that there is intelligent life somewhere up in space cos there's bugger all down here on Earth" ---Monty Python ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 3:01:23 -0700 (MST) Subject: RE: KW stuff for sale... Really-From: DON ECKSTEIN DAVE, Can you send a price list for these items for sale to deckstein@az.intel.com thanks don ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:25:40 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: KW and SAABS ???? Really-From: wisse@nlr.nl (E. Wisse) Hillebrand Boorsma wrote: > Look at the Autobahn cover, listen to the delicious Kaefer sound at the > start of the track. That's it. That's all. A 4 cylinder air-cooled boxer. Is that a beetle? Sure? It sound like something bigger to me, I always thought it sounds like a VW minibus (admittedly pretty close to a beetle) > The closest I got to the Autobahn feeling was in a Volkswagen Golf I, driving > from the Netherlands to Kassel playing different versions on tape of Autobahn > for about 3 hours. Of course, I'vw also got a Autobahn tape for those trips to Germany, and I've got a Golf :-) _________________________________________________________________________ wisse@nlr.nl ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:11:02 -0500 Subject: Re: KW stuff for sale... Really-From: Nthings@aol.com In a message dated 96-03-12 20:43:07 EST, you write: >dvrt@passport.ca put me on the list for the video!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! send info to meee ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 16:02 EST Subject: KW videos...i've got my first ten people... Really-From: dvrt@passport.ca (Dave Rout) WOW ! i got the first ten people for the KW videos in less than 5 hours... i'll email each one of you "lucky ten" individually regarding info... i have to send out a few packages to a few people who've been waiting a long time. (they know who they are :) ) once those are sent off this week, i'll start working on the dubs this weekend... thanks...for those who missed out i'll repost in about a months time to try again if my master tapes haven't died... dave " i'm the operator with my pocket calculator " -kw- ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:33:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Tour de Kraft CD Really-From: dougt@netcom.com (Doug Terrebone) Thanks to all that replied for the copy of the Tour de Kraft CD... I'm afraid at this time that I will have to limit the orders to those in the U.S. until I can figure out the best way to handle international orders... For those in the U.S. I'll start sending out the CDs early next week... Thanx, Doug ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #493 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #494 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Friday, 15 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 494 Re: KW and SAABS ???? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:30:18 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: KW and SAABS ???? Really-From: Thomas Weckert > > Look at the Autobahn cover, listen to the delicious Kaefer sound at the > > start of the track. That's it. That's all. A 4 cylinder air-cooled boxer. > > Is that a beetle? Sure? It sound like something bigger to me, I always > thought it sounds like a VW minibus (admittedly pretty close to a beetle) > > > The closest I got to the Autobahn feeling was in a Volkswagen Golf I, driving > > from the Netherlands to Kassel playing different versions on tape of Autobahn > > for about 3 hours. > > Of course, I'vw also got a Autobahn tape for those trips to Germany, > and I've got a Golf :-) > I have a 1962 Mercedes 220S (in black, like on the Autobahn cover), but the sound mentioned above is(I guess) a Mercedes Diesel (which they used in the MB lorrys and 190's made in the 1960's). Thomas ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #494 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #495 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Saturday, 16 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 495 Re: CARS CARS RE: CARS Re: CARS Re: CARS Re: CARS Re: CARS Re: CARS SAD??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 21:41:59 GMT Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com > > >Wow, someone else who likes Human League. Reproduction is the best album by >far - the words are really great and the music is wonderful....! > > Human League are the best band of all time (better than KW). I saw them in November in London and they were awesomely good. Reproduction and Travelogue are cool albums and display a wicked sense of humour - eg Being Boiled cracks me up. However Dare was their finest moment. All you robots out their probably don't understand the human pleasures which the League relate to..... SAD Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 21:46:14 GMT Subject: CARS Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) All this talk of Cars recently and no one has even mentioned Gary Numan. For those not in the know Numan sung live on Top of the Pops this Thursday. Cars has been re-released and is in the UK top 20. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 17:06:06 +0800 (U) Subject: RE: CARS Really-From: "Freeman, Lon C." >>Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com >> >> >>Wow, someone else who likes Human League. Reproduction is the best album by >>far - the words are really great and the music is wonderful....! >> >> >Human League are the best band of all time (better than KW).... >All you robots out their probably don't understand the human pleasures which >the League relate to..... SAD >Brian Uhhh.....yea. right. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 23:07:38 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 09:41 PM 3/15/96 +0000, bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) wrote: >Human League are the best band of all time (better than KW). I saw them in >November in London and they were awesomely good. Reproduction and Travelogue >are cool albums and display a wicked sense of humour - eg Being Boiled >cracks me up. However Dare was their finest moment. >All you robots out their probably don't understand the human pleasures which >the League relate to..... SAD > >Brian In my humble opinion, Human League are certainly a good band. They are nowhere near as great as Kraftwerk, but they are good nonetheless. The late 70s and early 80s saw the emergence of many fantastic KW-influenced bands like The Talking Heads, Depeche Mode, New Order, Human League, Devo, and so on. Ah, whatever happened to the good ol' days of music? :oP Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "The young man stepped into the hall of mirrors..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 18:08:32 -0500 Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (Steve Lang) >All this talk of Cars recently and no one has even mentioned Gary Numan. For >those not in the know Numan sung live on Top of the Pops this Thursday. Cars >has been re-released and is in the UK top 20. I only have Telecon but I like it. JoN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 20:38:00 -0500 Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com I love Numan. BTW - i never said human league was better than KW - i just think Reproduction is the best HL album.......... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 23:00:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: gewither@mailbox.syr.edu (gewither) >-- Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >>Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com >> >> >>Wow, someone else who likes Human League. Reproduction is the best album by >>far - the words are really great and the music is wonderful....! >> >> >Human League are the best band of all time (better than KW). I saw them in >November in London and they were awesomely good. Reproduction and Travelogue >are cool albums and display a wicked sense of humour - eg Being Boiled >cracks me up. However Dare was their finest moment. >All you robots out their probably don't understand the human pleasures which >the League relate to..... SAD >Brian I have Human League Stuff and Gary Numan for that matter. Iwas a fan of both from their beginnings. Kraftwerk Still rules though. :) Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/950HD 030/882/17Mb 50Mhz //// makes A2386 & VGA & 150MB HD gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum 28/24 \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 CD-ROM ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 23:10:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: nfn05970@naples.net (Jeff Pogan) unsubscribe kraftwerk ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 00:38:06 -0500 Subject: SAD??? Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (Steve Lang) >>Human League are the best band of all time (better than KW). I saw them in >>November in London and they were awesomely good. Reproduction and Travelogue >>are cool albums and display a wicked sense of humour - eg Being Boiled >>cracks me up. However Dare was their finest moment. >>All you robots out their probably don't understand the human pleasures which >>the League relate to..... SAD >> >>Brian Ok, first this Brian guy calls us all sad robots and noone cares and people just start talking with him about Human League and Gary Numan? I have to say something. IMHO Kraftwerk are very emotional. "We start to move and we break the glass" seriously gets to me everytime. Maybe i'm just a bit more emotional than most people but Kraftwerk really touches my senses. I get "human pleasures" from alot of other bands too such as Skinny Puppy, KMFDM, Depeche Mode, New Order, Joy Division, Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus, Inkubus Sukkubus, Delta 9, Gary Numan, The Cure, and most of the other bands I listen to. I know most of you seem to be at peace with dear Brian but I thought I should say something. Please don't flame me too bad. *shrug* JoN ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #495 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #496 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Sunday, 17 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 496 re SAD?? SAD Re: SAD??? Numan vinyl & KW Kraftwerk Komputer E.P. Happy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 00:39:56 -0800 Subject: re SAD?? Really-From: Luther Welsh >Ok, first this Brian guy calls us all sad robots and noone cares and people >just start talking with him about Human League and Gary Numan? Poor Brian is a sick individual. He crawls out of his dweeby hole every so often and tries to stir up trouble. He is not trolling -- he has emotional problems. During his last little foray into our list, he had a lot of wishful thinkers believing that the next KW album was being released shortly. He had an unnamed source. Never mind that a few days ago he flamed somebody on this list for not naming sources. My advice is to ignore him. And if anybody responds to Brian here on the list, then to politely and *privately* ask the responder to keep quiet. I just hope that "somebody whose account was hacked" doesn't send us a meg of uuencoded wavs, again. And please don't respond *here* to this note. Goodbye, Brian Gaze. Go find somebody else to play with. *plonk* - --Luke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 05:53:05 -0600 (CST) Subject: SAD Really-From: Jason Musser I must admit to not being familiar with every album in the Human League catalogue, but I find it hard to believe since that boring Jam & Lewis produced album they did that they've done enough to qualify them as the greatest band ever. The Beatles spring to mind as a more likely contender. As for human pleasures, you can find bands that talk about those on any street corner. One of the nice things about Kraftwerk is that since the lyrics are so sparse, the listener can read in as much or as little emotion as he wants to. What Kraftwerk does that is nice is not talk about love or sex in every song. Sure, those are things we worry about a lot, but there are other things that we worry about too. Kraftwerk sometimes touch on our feelings that stem from living in modern society (or post-modern society, if you want to get technical). Of course they're not unique in that, but that is certainly one of their more popular themes. I don't try to argue that Kraftwerk are particularly profound. It's difficult to champion the profundity of a song like 'Pocket Calculator'. Which is not to say I don't like the songs like 'Pocket Calculator'. Another big attraction of Kraftwerk is the charm that the intentionally silly songs like that have. Sometimes music that deals with human relationships degenerates into a competition to see who can be the most deeply-feeling and most miserable person. How many times can Trent Reznor lose his innocence and be totally destroyed by a relationship before we get bored with hearing about it? Eventually the topic is exhausted, and if the artist can't find something else to talk about, he's going to languish in an artistic dead end. Kraftwerk at least doesn't get mixed up in a futile contest to out-emote anyone else, and they don't beat every theme to death. That's one of the few benefits of their low rate of production, I guess. But enough about this, though it is nice to have some controversy to stir us up. In more mundane matters, has the '(Keep Feeling) Fascination' EP ever been issued on cd? I never see it. To JoN: You seriously need to buy a copy of 'Replicas' by Gary Numan. 'Telekon' has a few nice tracks, but I still regard 'Replicas' as Gary's greatest achievement. If you're trying to find copies of those old Gary Numan albums (the ones on Beggar's Banquet), the best thing to do is wait until a new Best Buy store opens, then get there as soon as you can. It seems that each Best Buy gets one copy each of those albums, but they never replace them. I guess you could just order them, but that's like admitting defeat. Personally, I kind of enjoy the thrill of the chase. It also helps me to limit my expenditures to roughly the same order of magnitude as my income. - -Jason Musser ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 17:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: SAD??? Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu JoN wrote: >Ok, first this Brian guy calls us all sad robots and noone cares and people >just start talking with him about Human League and Gary Numan? I have to >say something. IMHO Kraftwerk are very emotional. "We start to move and we >break the glass" seriously gets to me everytime. Maybe i'm just a bit more >emotional than most people but Kraftwerk really touches my senses. I get >"human pleasures" from alot of other bands too such as Skinny Puppy, KMFDM, >Depeche Mode, New Order, Joy Division, Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus, Inkubus >Sukkubus, Delta 9, Gary Numan, The Cure, and most of the other bands I >listen to. I know most of you seem to be at peace with dear Brian but I >thought I should say something. Please don't flame me too bad. I think one of the beautiful things about the mailing list is the fact that we are all entitled to express our beliefs in an open forum type of environment. You see, I disagreed with what Brian had to say every bit as much as you did, but I certainly will not criticize his right to say it here. Instead, I am more than happy to respond with my own personal beliefs, opinions, and so on. So, what I'm basically trying to say is, instead of getting angry at Brian, just say your peace. Instead of getting irritated that people are talking about Saabs and Gary Numan, I smile and simply offer my sincerest notion that Saabs and Gary Numan both suck when compared to Kraftwerk. :o) hehe...gotta love that first amendment... Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "We're charging our battery..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 12:12:12 -0500 Subject: Numan vinyl & KW Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (Steve Lang) >To JoN: You seriously need to buy a copy of 'Replicas' by Gary Numan. >'Telekon' has a few nice tracks, but I still regard 'Replicas' as Gary's >greatest achievement. >If you're trying to find copies of those old Gary Numan albums (the ones >on Beggar's Banquet), the best thing to do is wait until a new Best Buy >store opens, then get there as soon as you can. It seems that each Best >Buy gets one copy each of those albums, but they never replace them. I >guess you could just order them, but that's like admitting defeat. >Personally, I kind of enjoy the thrill of the chase. It also helps me to >limit my expenditures to roughly the same order of magnitude as my income. Sounds like a good idea but how much does Best Buy charge for those? Isolation Tank sells Numan stuff but I think most of it is quite expensive on cd. I really hate paying $20+ for stuff I could get on vinyl for $4. Oh, wait, I just looked. Iso Tank sells Replicas/The Plan for $22.99 on cd with 6 bonus tracks. That sounds like a good price. Maybe i'll get it. I'm not done checking all the local record shops for KW, Numan, Depeche Mode, New Order, ect...though. I really like vinyl now. JoN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 12:21:40 -0500 Subject: Kraftwerk Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (Steve Lang) >>Ok, first this Brian guy calls us all sad robots and noone cares and people >>just start talking with him about Human League and Gary Numan? I have to >>say something. IMHO Kraftwerk are very emotional. "We start to move and we >>break the glass" seriously gets to me everytime. Maybe i'm just a bit more >>emotional than most people but Kraftwerk really touches my senses. I get >>"human pleasures" from alot of other bands too such as Skinny Puppy, KMFDM, >>Depeche Mode, New Order, Joy Division, Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus, Inkubus >>Sukkubus, Delta 9, Gary Numan, The Cure, and most of the other bands I >>listen to. I know most of you seem to be at peace with dear Brian but I >>thought I should say something. Please don't flame me too bad. > > I think one of the beautiful things about the mailing list is the >fact that we are all entitled to express our beliefs in an open forum type >of environment. I think that's what I did. You see, I disagreed with what Brian had to say every bit >as much as you did, but I certainly will not criticize his right to say it >here. Instead, I am more than happy to respond with my own personal >beliefs, opinions, and so on. So, what I'm basically trying to say is, >instead of getting angry at Brian, just say your peace. Well, I wasn't really that angry when I responded. That's why I put the *shrug* at the end of my message. I didn't know the whole story of our friend. Instead of getting >irritated that people are talking about Saabs and Gary Numan, I smile and >simply offer my sincerest notion that Saabs and Gary Numan both suck when >compared to Kraftwerk. :o) hehe...gotta love that first amendment... Yup. First amendment. Saabs and Gary Numan IMHO are somewhat related to KW, as they both came up in messages that had to do with Kraftwerk. I have responded to both of these topics because I wanted to. This list isn't that big and their is more to life than KW and it shows in our messages. Of course you allready know that. JoN "we start to move and we break the glass" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:40:12 -0800 Subject: Komputer E.P. Really-From: Staggman@eworld.com Just been given a copy of this 'Komputer' E.P. by Komputer on Mute Records (CDMute 175)...not sure if It's a promo or if it's in the shops yet, but of all the recent Kraftwerk 'tributes' we've had I'd say this is the most convincing yet. The 4 tracks are: 1. Valentina Tereshkova 2. We Are Komputer 3. Komputer Krash 4. Oh Synthesizer The lead track is possibly the least Kraftwerk flavoured, but still has a rather obvious set of influences; the second two are very much KW homages, and the last track is the cheekiest of them all, being pretty much an reworking of 'Neon Lights' with a slightly amended chord sequence and melody. Pretty good though! Don't know anything else about it, but I'll try and find out... Mark Stagg. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:57:11 -0500 Subject: Happy Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com I regard Pleaure Principle as Gary Numan's greatest work - it is between Telekon and Repilcas - Replicas is a bit too little and Telekon is a bit too much but all three are excellent albums.....but i should talk about this on my Numan list. Back to Kraftwerk:-) ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #496 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #497 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Monday, 18 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 497 Numan cd's Doepfer System A-100 Modul-Synthesizer Aktivitaet 7 - 'The K-Files...' - Part 1 Aktivitaet articles Ian's article kraftwerk-digest V2 #496 show room dummies Re: Komputer E.P. Re: list ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 03:09:50 -0600 Subject: Numan cd's Really-From: Jason Musser I didn't realize Isolation Tank sold that stuff. I wrote them for a catalogue after hearing about them here, but it's still en route. Best Buy's prices are about the same. The Replicas/Plan package is actually a two disc set, so it's a pretty good buy for $22. Personally, I have the older cd releases, where Beggar's Banquet tried to jam two albums on one cd. For that package, they didn't mess with Replicas; they just cut out some of The Plan. I also have the butchered, one disc version of Pleasure Principle/Warriors. They cut stuff out of both of those albums, so maybe that's why I never got as excited about Pleasure Principle--I wasn't hearing the whole thing. As for the vinyl/cd debate, my turntables kept dying or playing at different speeds, so that encouraged me to switch to cd's. It's also pretty handy to be able to throw them right into the cd-rom drive. - -Jason ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 10:57:26 +0000 Subject: Doepfer System A-100 Modul-Synthesizer Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de The April issue of the German "Keys" magazine reviews the A-100 Synthesizer from Doepfer. The review includes a short statement from A-100 tester Florian Schneider. Bypacked is a free CD, that contains a vocoder poem from Florian Schneider, read by himself. The lyrics are as following: Analog-Synthese mit System, kleinlich, optisch, angenehm, technisch, logisch, funktionell, prototypisch und speziell, modular und variabel, leicht, kompakt und transportabel, fuer ein Musikabenteuer A-100 nicht zu teuer. MIDI-Kontrolle vom Computer, A-100, drittes Feature. A Demo-CD for the A-100 is available from Doepfer for DM 15,00. Does anyone know if this CD contains more Kraftwerk material? Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 17 Mar 96 11:34:20 EST Subject: Aktivitaet 7 - 'The K-Files...' - Part 1 Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@compuserve.com> 'The K Files - the Truth is Out There' (Aktivitaet 7 - September 1995)' The more mysterious side of Kraftwerk; cancelled releases, experimental projects etc. Part 1 of 3 Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Throughout Kraftwerk's career there have been many rumours of tours, record releases and other such projects that, though talked of in interviews, have never materialised. The most obvious example is the cancelled release of the 'Technopop' album back in 1983, which has entered into almost mythic status amongst fans, something of a holy grail almost. Towards the end of the 1980's, when the gap since the release of 'Electric Cafe' seemed increasingly significant, rumours abounded of Kraftwerk having 'destroyed' the master tapes for a new album. As we shall see within this article, such speculation goes back some time and is not always helped by the lack of clarification from the band themselves... Unreleased Records 'Technopop' is obviously the most famous example of this type. Technopop' was the name given to Kraftwerk's 1983 album of songs that was scheduled for release towards the middle of the year. The LP had been anticipated for some time by the bands record labels EMI (UK) / EMI-Electrola (Germany). Kraftwerk themselves had been talking of the project since at least early 1982, it being mentioned in numerous interviews. In the NME of 5.2.83 it was reported that "...Kraftwerk will be playing some UK concerts in the early Spring. They're being set up for late March and early April and details are expected shortly. The visit will coincide with the release by EMI of their new studio album titled 'Technopop'..". By late April it became clear that the album and tour were not going to appear as soon as predicted, with the following report carried in the NME of 30.4.83 revealing that "Kraftwerk will not now be touring here this spring, even though some ticket agencies have actually been taking reservations for projected London concerts. It seems their new album won't be completed for some time, so their visit has been put off until early autumn." In Germany there was even a press advert for the 'Technopop' LP, in a freebie music shop magazine. This advert, originally featured in colour on the back page of the magazine, is reproduced on the cover of this issue. Whether this advert is an example of the intended picture sleeve design is unclear; it seems that mock-up draft copies of utilising this design were used by EMI company reps when visiting shops. This design borrows the 'Kraftwerk-on-bikes' illustration used, more aptly, on the preceding 'Tour De France' single for the front, with one of the pictures of the band performing 'Mini Calcolatore' from an Italian TV appearance from 1981 on the rear. 'Tour De France' was of course one of the intended tracks for inclusion on 'Technopop', along with 'Technopop' itself, 'Sex Object' and 'The Telephone Call'. In the UK the allocated catalogue number for the LP was EMC-3407, while the German press advert reveals that their catalogue numbers were 1C 064-65087 for the LP and 1C 264-65087 for the cassette release. So what happened to 'Technopop'? Obviously, it was never released in its original form. The most logical answer from Kraftwerk themselves suggests that they were unhappy with the albums recordings at the time and continued to work on the songs until they were eventually happy with them. By which time they had moved from analogue to digital technology and the album had mutated from being called 'Technopop' into the now more familiar 'Electric Cafe' instead and, as far as the songs go, gaining 'Electric Cafe' while 'Technopop' spawned two additional derivative tracks, 'Boing Boom Tschak' and 'Musique Non Stop' and with 'Tour De France' being omitted altogether. From an interview from the German magazine Frontpage in 1991 Ralf was asked 'Is it true that a complete finished LP was destroyed?'. 'Not destroyed, but deleted. This 'Techno Pop' LP was practically finished, but we've re-recorded it. 'For a long while rumours persisted that copies of the LP had been pressed, though in extremely limited numbers. No credible proof of this was forthcoming until the plot thickened somewhat in 1992 when demo versions of 'Technopop' and 'Sex Object' appeared on bootleg CD's. From knowledgeable sources, it appears that these recordings are not actually from a finished LP copy, but are rough demo takes, leaked by two people from one of the American studios used during the LP's recording. It is probable that many such tapes exist within the confines of Kling Klang studio and associated personnel, but it still remains doubtful that any actual vinyl LP copies are in existence with the label bearing the name of 'Technopop'. But the Kraftwerk history tends to be so mysterious, it would not come as a shock to be proved wrong on this one... 'Technopop' is not the only example of this kind though. A release that was to appear in 1979 has also been mentioned. In an interview in the Spanish 'Popular 1' magazine with Ralf Huetter, conducted some months before the publication date, reveals comments that Florian, Karl and Wolfgang were then in the studio finishing the mix of a new album, due for release in April 1979. The magazine had intended that the interview should coincide with the release of the new album, but published the interview in November of 1979 when, with no signs of the LP arriving, they could wait no longer. The band turned down an opportunity to appear on the local Catalonian channel TV programme 'Musical Express' because they were working to finish the new album. They had even cancelled a European tour, according to what Ralf said. When asked about the new LP Ralf was very vague and the only explanation given to the interviewer about it is that 'the recording conditions of the new album have been the same as previous ones'. (Kraftwerk were again invited onto the same music programme in 1981 but again refused. The programme this time was about electronic music and featured live, not playback, performances by Neuronium, Klaus Schulze, Ashra, Vangelis and some video material from Tangerine Dream and Jean Michel Jarre.) Certainly, there seems to be some substance to this idea, because it prompted a response from Ralf in an official EMI promo interview circulated at the time of 'Computer World's release; 'Are the rumours true that you've destroyed a finished record because you were not satisfied, respectively because another group did a similar project earlier?' "We've worked three years [on this new record. ...] I don't know anything about these rumours." On the other hand, Ralf has often stated in interviews throughout the years that the band members are currently hard at work on a new album, with no resulting release to qualify such statements. As Ralf's answer implies, it may simply be that 'Computer World' absorbed what may have been intended as an earlier LP release. Similarly, towards the end of the 1980's there were further rumours that Kraftwerk had recorded an LP and then destroyed the master tapes. From Select magazine in 1990; 'Kraftwerk were last in the news in Spring '89, when there was a strong rumour that they had destroyed all the material for a new LP, after deciding not to release it. "We would never do anything like a 'Black Album'', said a band spokesman, referring to the Prince album that never was. "For us it is satisfaction to know what the new Kraftwerk album is like". The same article mentions that, due to the unoffical tape recordings that were made at the concert, '...Kraftwerk are to release an 'official bootleg' of one of the gigs'. This may be confused with 'The Mix', which Kraftwerk themselves appear to regard as being something of a live album in itself. Such reports do coincide with a period when the rumour on the grapevine was that an LP called 'Inspector' was to be preceded by a single called 'Rendezvous'. Again, no actual evidence of such releases are available. These titles still pop-up in conversation amongst fans, with the rumours mutating into new variations on the familiar theme. Since 1991 there has been speculation of a follow-up to 'The Mix', a second volume of re-recorded songs called 'The Mix 2'. It is known that Ralf revealed that the band had also recorded versions of 'Neon Lights' and 'The Man Machine' for inclusion on 'The Mix', but which were left off of the eventual release. Despite numerous hoaxes suggesting otherwise, no LP matching the purported contents of 'The Mix 2' has appeared as yet and I would recommend that you believe it only when you see it! Comments from Ralf such as this one (from an article entitled 'Kraftwerk' sind wieder unter Strom' from the Swiss 'Blick' newspaper (27.07.1991)) only confuse matters; 'Another remix record can be expected. Ralf told BLICK: 'We've remixed some other songs, too.' And next year a new record shall appear with new songs'.' Similarly, in an interview printed in the NME, July 1991, Ralf answers, asked about the obvious omission of 'The Model' from 'The Mix', that 'maybe in a couple of years we'll do another album like this'. As yet, 'The Mix 2' is all just talk. 'The Mix' clearly showed that Kraftwerk were still in business after all and, apart from 'The Mix 2', expectations of a brand new album of material were also raised. Again, it exists only in theory. From an interview in the German magazine 'Frontpage' (7-8/1991), Ralf is asked 'Millions of fans are waiting for a new record...' to which he answers, 'Yes, it will appear. After the tour. [... We can't play new songs live] without having released a record, otherwise [...] we would have hundreds of bootlegs'. With 1991 witnessing Kraftwerk's return from a lengthy period of silence rumour also spread of them releasing a box set. A radio interview with Ralf H tter and Olaf Zimmermann on the German radio station DT 64 (pt. 1: 28.08.91, pt. 2: 11.09.91, pt. 3-4: dates unknown) touched upon this subject; 'Will your first three albums be re-released on CD?' 'Well, we must go into the archives and look if we're still able to find the master tapes. Then we can copy the tapes on CD. Maybe after the tour, when we're back in Duesseldorf. We can certainly do that. [...] We think also about compiling a box set next year, with the singles, but in a different form.' A report in the German 'Audio' magazine (10/91) stated that 'In autumn, the original albums will appear in a CD box (set)'. The only box set to appear thus far is the rather poor 'Capitol Years' cash-in release from the American Cleopatra label, which in no way approaches the sort of set that fans would appreciate. This radio broadcast interview is actually a rich source of such information it was also mentioned during it that the band hoped to participate in a Greenpeace 'Anti-Sellafield' sampler - which, via the 'Stop Sellafield' concert appearance in 1992 and later video clip, came true. A French interview from 1991 raised the prospect of a third single release from 'The Mix' in the form of 'Pocket Calculator', though it is difficult to judge just how substantial this possibility was, as in another interview Ralf was quoted as saying that a third single release from 'The Mix' may be 'Autobahn'. The most recent example of a release that never was came at the tail end of 1994, when the German EMI-Electrola records release schedule revealed that an LP-length CD release of 'Tour De France' was scheduled for release on November 16th. When the release date came and went, further enquiries revealed that this had in fact been on and off the release schedule for some time previous to this time. Kraftwerk themselves appear to be the main instigators behind the release and the main instigators behind its continuing non-appearance! The CD is purported to contain a 30+ minute version of 'Tour De France'. Clumsy hoaxes towards the end of 1994 suggesting it was the first single release from 'The Mix 2' seem only to be clutching at straws. Every indication points that the CD would be a weird and wonderful release all of its own. While not what could be classed a cancelled release, back in 1971, during the period when Ralf Huetter had left the band for a period of six months or so, the then line-up of Florian Schneider, Klaus Dinger and Michael Rother recorded about 35 minutes of material that remains unreleased. In an article entitled 'Genug Energie fuers Jahr 2000: La Duesseldorfs Neu-Es Kraftwerk', printed in the German 'Sounds' magazine in 1979, journalist Ingeborg Schober reveals that '...a colleague brought him [Michael Rother] to Kraftwerk: 'They planned to do soundtracks' ... before they split up, they started to work on an album with Conny Plank. The tapes are still in the archive.' The material is reported as sounding much like Neu!. There seems little likelihood of it ever being released. - - End of Part 1 - ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 17 Mar 96 11:30:21 EST Subject: Aktivitaet articles Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@compuserve.com> Greetings, There's been a bit of a gap since I last posted an article from Aktivitaet to the mailing list. I've recently written to past contributors to gain clearance on re-distributing the articles from past issues, so I hope that more and varied articles will be appearing before long. An article about some of Kraftwerk's more recent equipment purchases (well, 1994 anyway) will be coming along in a few days, courtesy of an article that originally appeared in Aktivitaet 6, penned by Mark Stagg who has recently gone on-line and posted to the mailing list of late. (Hi Mark!) In the meantime, over the next three days, I will post a rather lengthy article from issue 7 of Aktivitaet - 'The K-Files - the Truth Is Out There'. Beforehand, I'd like to point out that this article was written by using a fair amount of detective work and, like most other Aktivitaet articles, there is no official Kraftwerk involvement. There's much guesswork involved and perhaps some areas where little conclusive facts are shed. Still, I hope the article proves an interesting read. I doubt if Kraftwerk will ever comment on many of these mysterious areas and many of these seem to be ever present on the rumour mill. My hope is that while the article doesn't solve too many of the mysteries, it at least clears up some of them and presents what facts *are* known in the one place. Ian Calder ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 13:32:46 -0600 (CST) Subject: Ian's article Really-From: Brendan Heading Congrats Ian and the rest of Aktivitaet for an excellent article on KW's releases. I've a few points relating to that interview that folks may be interested in.... On the subject of a new album, I find it real hard to believe that KW are sitting doing nothing. We should stop asking ourselves "Is their going to be a new album ?" and instead saying "I wonder what the new album's going to be like ?" Also mentioned is the rumour of Kraftwerk releasing a box set. When I was in Dublin a year ago, I saw a KW box set - it was called "The Capitol Releases" or something similar, and contained TEE, MM and another one ... Radioactivity I think. Does anyone know anything about this ? I have in my possession a 1-hour recording of a BBC Radio 1 programme broadcast about 4 months ago devoted to Kraftwerk and their music. It contains snippets from past interviews with KW, and comments by David Bowie, Andy out of OMD, Mark Sinker, and a French friend of KW whose name I cannot remember. They talk about what inspired each of their albums and why the group split up. Very interesting - apparently, according to Wolfgang Flur - "We made two records in the 80's and it wasn't enough for me. Also, we didn't play live... my partners turned all the tours down and in the end I had to leave. We didn't fall out... but there's not much to say." Flur speaks highly of David Bowie, and his dismayal at the fact that the band turned down the opportunity of touring with him". If anyone wants me to post up the interview, I'd be glad to. - --- Brendan Heading (brendan@heading.demon.co.uk) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 17 Mar 96 15:23:47 EST Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #496 Really-From: Thistlethwaite <100341.2320@compuserve.com> >You see, I disagreed with what Brian had to say every bit >as much as you did, but I certainly will not criticize his right to say it >here. Instead, I am more than happy to respond with my own personal >beliefs, opinions, and so on. So, what I'm basically trying to say is, >instead of getting angry at Brian, just say your peace. Maybe this is slightly going outside what the conference is supposed to be about, but I'm afraid I disagree with what you are saying. I do not think it is worth getting angry with Brian, but I do think we are free to criticize what other people say. For example if the next KW album was slated by all the music press under the sun, but as dedicated KW fans, we disagreed, we should be perfectly free to criticize their opinions. Likewise, the opinions expressed within the mailing list. I am not advocating mass slagging off matches, but the world would be a poorer place without well thought out criticism. Does anyone have any views about Mouse on Mars, a German duo writing electronic listening music (slightly more relevant). Tom ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 15:53:58 -0500 Subject: show room dummies Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (Steve Lang) >As for the vinyl/cd debate, my turntables kept dying or playing at >different speeds, so that encouraged me to switch to cd's. It's also >pretty handy to be able to throw them right into the cd-rom drive. > >-Jason Hear ya. I don't even know how to make our drive play cds though. I just can't get it to work. I counts like it's playing but I hear nothing. ???. I am getting new turntable soon though. That pretty much solves the vinyl problems. JoN "we are show room dummies" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 21:54:05 EST Subject: Re: Komputer E.P. Really-From: Henning Colsman-Freyberger >Really-From: Staggman@eworld.com > >Just been given a copy of this 'Komputer' E.P. by Komputer on Mute Records >(CDMute 175)...not sure if It's a promo or if it's in the shops yet, but of >all the recent Kraftwerk 'tributes' we've had I'd say this is the most >convincing yet. >The 4 tracks are: 1. Valentina Tereshkova > 2. We Are Komputer > 3. Komputer Krash > 4. Oh Synthesizer How long are the tracks? >... >Don't know anything else about it, but I'll try and find out... >Mark Stagg. It's available through musicexpress.com (telnet musicexpress.com): MUTE773383 KOMPUTER KOMPUTER EP $10.56 MUTE 1/96 CD SINGLE MAXI SINGLE CD They charge $3 per order (regardless of size) for shipping. Henning Colsman-Freyberger kraftwerk@mit.edu ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 00:16:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: list Really-From: nfn05970@naples.net (Jeff Pogan) unsubscribe kraftwerk please remove me from mailing list ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #497 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #498 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 19 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 498 Re: Komputer E.P. RE: KW Infobahr, Fernwarme? Re: RE: KW Infobahr, Fernwarme? Re: Ian's article Aktivitaet 7 -' The K-Files...' - Part 2 Re: Is it ok to sell kraftwerk vinyl on this list ? Re: Is it ok to sell kraftwerk vinyl on this list ? Re: Is it ok to sell kraftwerk vinyl on this list ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 05:52:53 -0800 Subject: Re: Komputer E.P. Really-From: Staggman@eworld.com I've managed to glean a bit more info on the 'Komputer' E.P....apparently Komputer contain at least one member of Fortran 5 (another Mute Records band) and have recently been playing a few club dates in London...from a friends email: >I saw them live at a Romo club about 10 days ago and they were top. >They're playing at Madame JoJo's tonight... (Mon 18/3/96) I can imagine that some of you may be horrified by the blatant KW rip-off that I guess it is, but if you take it in good fun I do think it's much more interesting than, say, Cleopatra's 'Trancewerk Express' album for example. I suppose it was only a matter of time before a KW tribute band emerged from the Romo scene, and to be honest the tunes are pretty good, and the lyrics pretty funny in a minimalist KW-type fashion, e.g: "Oh synthesizer play me one more melody A tune to conjure up some hidden memory..." or even: "Work is pleasure; pleasure is work" (*almost* to the tune of 'The Robots"!) >How long are the tracks? 1. Valentina Tereshkova (4'51) 2. We Are Komputer (3'58) 3. Komputer Krash (5'29) 4. Oh Synthesizer (8'14) Total time (including spacing): 22'44 As for availibility, I know that Mute Records have a 24-hour credit card hotline on +44 (0) 181 964 0029 and a website at http://www.mutelibtech.com/mute/ But I don't work for them, honest! Mark Stagg ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 9:12:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: KW Infobahr, Fernwarme? Really-From: MCINTYRE@pa.msu.edu >Really-From: Anders Wilhelm >Does anyone know anything about a record with the name Fernwarme? >I believe that M. Rother is involved in it. It is in fact one of Michael Rother's albums. As usual, the CD has lots of bonus material. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept Michigan State University mcintyre@pa.msu.edu ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 10:08:22 -0500 Subject: Re: RE: KW Infobahr, Fernwarme? Really-From: Curryous@aol.com Rother's new CD, Esperanza, just came out on Random Records two weeks ago. Russ Curry ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 16:10:28 +0100 Subject: Re: Ian's article Really-From: mlberg@infolink.no (Magne Lilleberg) Brendan Heading wrote: BH> If anyone wants me to post up the interview, I'd be glad to. Please do! :-) Magne mlberg@infolink.no ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.21 [NR] ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 18 Mar 96 13:20:37 EST Subject: Aktivitaet 7 -' The K-Files...' - Part 2 Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@compuserve.com> 'The K Files - the Truth is Out There' (Aktivitaet 7 - September 1995)' The more mysterious side of Kraftwerk; cancelled releases, experimental projects etc. Part 2 of 3 Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Video's, Films etc. One question never far away is when will Kraftwerk release a video, either live or a collection of promo clips. There is a strong rumour that a 'Live Mix' video appeared in 1991 in a very small number of promo copies but was sanctioned by Kraftwerk and hastily withdrawn. There has also been comments in interviews from Ralf about the band compiling a video compilation, but again nothing with any substance in terms of the information given. Typical of such enquiries is this quote from Ralf, from the German 'Fachblatt Musik-Magazin' (5/1987); 'We have some film material. Sometime we will [...] release it on a video disc.' Again, the radio interview from late 1991 raised the subject, Ralf answering that 'we have a lot of video material. [...] Sometime, maybe next year, when we find the time, we have to look over it and then we might release it, together with additional films and computer graphics, maybe on a video disc. It will be a long process, but it will happen.' The same radio interview touches slightly on the likelihood of the purported 'Live Mix' video, when Ralf is asked about whether any live recordings were made; 'We did live video recordings, but very, very few.'. Unfortunately, I cannot clear up this little mystery at all. Another such quote which is more mysterious is this one where Ralf reveals that the band obviously have some plans for a 'Tour De France' visual accompaniment. From the German magazine 'Keyboards' (5/1987), Ralf states 'To finish 'Electric Cafe', we've put back the work for the 'Tour de France' film'. I have little other information related to this project, so details are scarce. Speculation suggests that, with Ralf's keen interest in cycling, it may have more to do with documenting past 'Tour De France' races, possibly focusing on past participants, in the way that the archive film the band use to accompany the live performance of the song does. But it is to be emphasised that this is just speculation. Even stranger, a German radio interview from 1991 when Ralf revealed that he had taken part in some medical 'research' by cycling while having his body's responses recorded by medical equipment, the readouts from this equipment being filmed. He is said to have mentioned that these films may possibly be released as part of a new version of the 'Tour De France' video. Again, nothing of substance, but there certainly seems to be something going on to do with 'Tour De France', especially if you take the cancelled CD release from 1994 into account. Most mysterious of all is perhaps a film project that seemed to be on the cards at one point. In Paul Wilkinson's article 'A Dream Come True' back in issue 3, which detailed his encounter with Karl Bartos in 1989, the subject is raised; Paul Wilkinson; 'What about the Kraftwerk movie - whatever happened to that?' Karl Bartos; 'Well, a person called Karl Reinhart was making a movie about us, about out history, using footage and live footage but he died and we considered nobody else suitable for the position. Only he could do the film, so it was never completed and doesn't exist. ** Unfortunately, little else in the way of hard fact has come to light on this film. ** Since the publication of this article, the 'evidence' for the Kraftwerk film discussed here seems rather flawed; other than Karl's comments, the other 'evidence' put forward for the existence of such a project is incorrect, it being mistaken with a 1978 press article which used a movie-making scenario merely as a journalistic prop. - IAC, March 1996. Cancelled TV Appearances Kraftwerk's wariness of the media stretches back a long way and it seems that from an early time into their career, they were pulling the plug on scheduled TV appearances. the German magazine 'Musik-Joker' (25/1976) carried this short report; 'Kraftwerk [...] have specialised in breaking contracts. In October they've fooled the TV two times. A team [...] travelled to Paris, only to film their [...] concert and the gold disc award, but when the spotlight fell on the stage, the manager came and ordered: 'Lights off! Camera away!' [...] After three hours waiting the group said only: 'We're tired! We're not interested in an interview'. [...] Even the almighty EMI was powerless. Similarly, another example . . .Kraftwerk agreed to come to Baden-Baden for studio recordings for the 'Info Show' [on October 18th, ...] but they didn't appear. Five days ago they came back from their European tour. TV and record company tried non-stop to contact [them ...], but without success. Editor Kramer: 'Their families have them surely denied.' Result: Record company and TV had (incurred) 'thousands of DM costs' (Kramer), but (are left with) neither promotion nor broadcast material. Tours Live appearances and the lack thereof again provide a rich source of cancelled activities. It appears that, in addition to their realised tours, Kraftwerk have intended to tour in 1978/79 (to promote 'The Man Machine'), 1983 (to promote 'Technopop'), 1987 (to promote 'Electric Cafe') autumn 1991 (in America, Canada and Japan, to promote 'The Mix') and more sporadic one-off events in the 90's. The degree to which the tours were finalised varies of course, but the bottom line is that none of these events took place. It appears that Kraftwerk did not tour at all to promote 'The Man Machine'. They did take part in TV appearances and suchlike, with the aid of their mannequins. (Further details of this period can be found in issue 5's article 'Man Machine At Large'.) Interviewed in the German 'Musik-Express' Ralf is asked 'You wanted to tour in 1978. Why haven't you?', replying, somewhat vaguely, 'Our work wasn't finished'. There is nodocumentation about the band doing such a tour and no other reason to its non- appearance. Some dates were announced for the 'Technopop'-era tour, an article in 'Electronics and Music Maker' from May 1983 listed these dates; London Hammersmith Odeon, Thursday/Friday 16/17 June, London Lyceum, Sunday/Monday 19/20 June. Numerous interviews from 1986/1987 mention that Kraftwerk planned to play live to promote 'Electric Cafe', England, Germany, Spain, America certainly. It is not known why Kraftwerk eventually scrapped these plans. No definite details emerged as to such a tour, other than Ralf stating, relevant to the country of the interview, that they would be touring soon. Interestingly, it seems that the modernised versions of the bands mannequins, with the motorised limbs, were in existence, as these are referred to in interviews. Once again, Ralf's answers were known to refer to the fact that the band had been busy at work modernising the Kling Klang equipment, in preparation for taking it out on the road to tour with again. Whether the lack of success generated by the 'Electric Cafe' album killed off the plans to play live or whether there were other reasons is unknown. The original idea for the 1991 world tour was to play American and Canadian dates in the autumn of 1991 and indeed dates were announced and tickets went on sale. For whatever reason, these concerts were cancelled and remain unfulfilled. Similarly, projected dates in Japan never came around. In the German radio interview from late 1991, Ralf mentioned the following; 'I don't know exactly if it's possible, but we think about participating in some open air events in the summer. This is a technological problem, because our computers are very sensitive'. Previous to this, it had been reported earlier in 1991 that Kraftwerk were to take part in a large scale concert in Paris along with 808 State and other techno artists in June of 1991 ('Frontpage' magazine (5/91)). It was not until March 1994 that such a theme reappeared when it was reported that the band were expected to play at an open air event, 'Experience', to take place at Lydd Airport in Kent, England on April 30th 1994. The event, which was publicised in the UK media, was eventually cancelled due to objections from local residents. Later reports stated that the band still hoped to play live in England in the summer, but nothing ever came of this. Possibly the earliest example of a cancelled tour however, is from 1975, this report from the German magazine 'Fachblatt' (11/1975) revealing 'Kraftwerk were unlucky with their announced tour. All dates were cancelled. [...] The reason: lack of demand for tickets.' 1981 was of course Kraftwerk's most widely travelled period, but even then there were some cancellations; interviews reveal that the band had hoped to play live in the USSR and also East Germany, but it appears that such concerts did not take place. There has also been speculation about Kraftwerk's involvement with a project to be based in Barcelona, Spain, other contributors being Brian Eno, Peter Gabriel and the like. This project was mentioned briefly in the 1991 Radio DT64 German language radio interview; 'In two years we will maybe participate in a project in Barcelona. There will be a permanent installation of our music, where we could do performances etc.' A site in Barcelona is earmarked for this project but their has been no tangible progress of any significance, the project, something of a multimedia them park judging by descriptions, remains largely a pipedream at present. - -End of Part 2 - ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 21:19:55 +0100 Subject: Re: Is it ok to sell kraftwerk vinyl on this list ? Really-From: h8551159@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at (Michael Wilhelm Melzer) >Really-From: dvrt@passport.ca (Dave Rout) > > > i was just wondering if it's ok to sell KW stuff on > this list...i have a good collection of vinyl > (about 40 pieces) and after about 10 years of > collecting records i need to let go of some of > them...would someone let me know if this is ok ? > >thanks, > >dave > >" i'm the operator with my pocket calculator " -kw- please send me your list " und wenn die nacht anbricht ist diese stadt aus licht " ______________ Mag. Michael Melzer Hietzinger Kai 125/11; A-1130 Wien (Vienna) tel privat: +43 1-87 65 637 tel office: +43 1-50 1 36-86 fax office: +43 1-50 1 36-67 ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 21:19:48 +0100 Subject: Re: Is it ok to sell kraftwerk vinyl on this list ? Really-From: h8551159@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at (Michael Wilhelm Melzer) >Really-From: dvrt@passport.ca (Dave Rout) > > > i was just wondering if it's ok to sell KW stuff on > this list...i have a good collection of vinyl > (about 40 pieces) and after about 10 years of > collecting records i need to let go of some of > them...would someone let me know if this is ok ? > >thanks, > >dave > >" i'm the operator with my pocket calculator " -kw- > please send me your list =.. und wenn die nacht anbricht, ist diese stadt aus licht" ______________ Mag. Michael Melzer Hietzinger Kai 125/11; A-1130 Wien (Vienna) tel privat: +43 1-87 65 637 tel office: +43 1-50 1 36-86 fax office: +43 1-50 1 36-67 ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 21:19:51 +0100 Subject: Re: Is it ok to sell kraftwerk vinyl on this list ? Really-From: h8551159@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at (Michael Wilhelm Melzer) >Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (Steve Lang) > > >> i was just wondering if it's ok to sell KW stuff on >> this list...i have a good collection of vinyl >> (about 40 pieces) and after about 10 years of >> collecting records i need to let go of some of >> them...would someone let me know if this is ok ? > > please send me your list "und wenn die nacht anbricht ist diese stadt aus licht" ______________ Mag. Michael Melzer Hietzinger Kai 125/11; A-1130 Wien (Vienna) tel privat: +43 1-87 65 637 tel office: +43 1-50 1 36-86 fax office: +43 1-50 1 36-67 ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #498 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #499 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 19 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 499 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 08:58:11 -0300 Subject: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) Anyone can informe me : who is Andy McCluskey, singer of the track "Kissing the Machine", of the Elektric Music's album "Esperanto" ? I buyed the album few days ago and it is great!! We can close our eyes for a moment and to pretend are listening for a new Kraftwerk album !!!! I thought that the best tracks (the most "kraftwerkianians"...) are "TV", "Lifestyle" and "Esperanto". =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 12:03:29 GMT Subject: NDN: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 12:19:15 GMT Subject: NDN(2): Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 12:35:16 GMT Subject: NDN(3): Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 12:51:14 GMT Subject: NDN(4): Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:54:44 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Lars Nellemann Andy McClusky is the singer and only remaining original member of OMD, Ochestral Manoevres in the Dark. If you want to check out that group, check out the early albums - or their greatest hits. Lars - -- ******************************************************************** * Lars Nellemann * I'm confused - Like a thirsty * * nelleman@biobase.dk * baby in a topless bar ! * * National Hospital of Denmark * ******************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 10:03:29 GMT-3:00 Subject: Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Eduardo Marcel Macan > Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) > Anyone can informe me : who is Andy McCluskey, singer of the track "Kissing > the Machine", A friend of mine told me he does the vocals for OMD (am I wrong?) I know little about OMD, their only music I really like is "Neon Lights" which is not theirs at all :) It's a nice version, almost as pleasant as the original one by KW... By the way... They changed the lyrics a little bit didn't they? If I am not wrong they added a spoken part which I never understood... If someone could send me the words for that part... :) regards Eduardo. | macan@dcc.unicamp.br | "I program my home computer, | | http://www.unicamp.br/~macan | beam myself into the future" --Kraftwerk | ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 13:00:42 GMT Subject: NDN: Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 13:00:41 GMT Subject: NDN(5): Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 13:15:34 GMT Subject: NDN: Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 13:15:38 GMT Subject: NDN(2): Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 13:15:38 GMT Subject: NDN(6): Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 13:28:20 GMT Subject: NDN(2): Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 13:28:14 GMT Subject: NDN(7): Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 13:34:26 GMT Subject: NDN(3): Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 13:39:44 GMT Subject: NDN(3): Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 13:39:50 GMT Subject: NDN(8): Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 13:45:26 GMT Subject: NDN(4): Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 13:55:17 GMT Subject: NDN(4): Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 13:55:14 GMT Subject: NDN(9): Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 13:56:35 GMT Subject: NDN(5): Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 14:03:26 GMT Subject: NDN(10): Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 14:03:20 GMT Subject: NDN(5): Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 14:12:15 GMT Subject: NDN(6): Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 14:12:19 GMT Subject: NDN(11): Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #499 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #500 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 20 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 500 NDN(6): Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? What the heck? Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Re: What the heck? Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? New KW Album due this Summer Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Aktivitaet 7 - 'The K-Files...' - Part 3 electronic music on the Web... Re: New KW Album due this Summer WILL PAY TOP $$ FOR KW BOOTLEG CDS L.F.O-Karl Bartos. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 1996 14:19:21 GMT Subject: NDN(6): Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) ________________________________ Sent via TVOntario's Online Service ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 09:25:22 EST Subject: What the heck? Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: peballen@ENG.APPL.GE.COM (pat ballenger) > Really-From: Gateway@tvo.org > > > Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: > > Mike Lemega,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that > the name has been entered correctly.) > > > > ________________________________ > Sent via TVOntario's Online Service > > Why do we keep receiving this message? Pat B. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 08:34:01 -0600 Subject: Re: What the heck? Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: datta@cs.uwp.edu (David Datta) } Really-From: peballen@ENG.APPL.GE.COM (pat ballenger) } Why do we keep receiving this message? Because we have yet another mailer program that doesn't correctly send errors to the Errors-To: line in the messages and instead sends it to the From: address. All mail from the offending mail program is now being filtered out of the list. - -- ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 17:40:09 +0100 Subject: New KW Album due this Summer Really-From: majortom@muc.de (((mw))) Hi, I've been hasteling with myself if I should post this or not but I've decided to do it, so here goes... This information is from a friend who knows Mr. Doepfer, the owner of the German Synth Company of the same name quite well. Doepfer works a lot with KW, as seen by Florian Schneider's Poem for them and Mr. Doepfer visits their studio frequently. Last time he was there he supposedly heard their new album. He claims it is totally new material, alledgedly quite different from the old music. He says KW gave him a tape of this material and he had to promise of course not to play it to anyone. KW told him the lp is to be released this summer... So this is the info, lets hope it's true and KW doesn't decide to destroy the masters again... ________ michael __________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 16:48:51 GMT Subject: Re: Who is Andy McCluskey ? Really-From: mmalcolm crawford (Please note, I offer the spelling corrections as a *friendly service*, for someone whose first language I understand not to be English, not as a flame.) > Anyone can informe me : who is Andy McCluskey, singer of the track inform > "Kissing the Machine", of the Elektric Music's album "Esperanto" > ? I buyed the album few days ago and it is great!! We can close bought > our eyes for a moment and to pretend are listening for a new ^ we > Kraftwerk album !!!! I thought that the best tracks (the most > "kraftwerkianians"...) are "TV", "Lifestyle" and "Esperanto". > Andy McCluskey is the lead singer of Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark, (OMD) formed around 1979/80, and who recorded such greats as "Electricity" and "Enola Gay". They regularly cited Kraftwerk as inspiration. Whilst I do like most of OMD's early work, and much of Esperanto, I'm afraid I cannot concur with your evaluation of "Kissing the machine". For me, McCluskey's voice just isn't suited to this work -- it's too whining -- which is a shame as the instrumentation is excellent. "TV" is my favourite. Best wishes, mmalc. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Mar 96 13:24:48 EST Subject: Aktivitaet 7 - 'The K-Files...' - Part 3 Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@compuserve.com> 'The K Files - the Truth is Out There' (Aktivitaet 7 - September 1995)' The more mysterious side of Kraftwerk; cancelled releases, experimental projects etc. Part 3 of 3 Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Live Ideas When it comes to actual live performance, Kraftwerk have, more than most, come up with some interesting ideas over the years. The most famous example is no doubt their idea of playing concerts in more than one city at a time, using various technological advancements, such as video projection or more advanced developments of their mannequins. 'Bravo' (36/1978) carried this quote from Ralf; 'We don't like touring, so we plan to do a really big thing: A European tour in at least twenty cities - at the same day, at the same hour! But of course we don't want to say now what will there happen with our dummies...'. From 'Musik-Express' (4/1979); 'They plan to let the dummies play in future concerts, while they sit in the audience'. The nearest these ideas have come to reality is in the bands use of their mannequins/robots during the live rendition of 'The Robots' in their 1981, 1991-1991 live performances. The opposite scenario, with the bands seated mannequins enjoying the show at their leisure, actually took place in 1978 at an Italian TV show shoot in 1978 when the band performed 'The Robots', further details in Aktivitaet 5's 'Man Machine At Large' article. Another often spoken of project was the bands idea to one day devise an instrument that could be played by the movements of the body alone. Again, this reached a certain level, but not the full- blown realisation. The bands 1976 concerts featured a percussion instrument triggered by light beams. Ralf is quoted with the following in 'Musik-Express' (12/1976); 'The man in the UV-cage is only the prototype, we did this first during this tour, but we will go on with this concept of a Man Machine: to dance and to produce music by the movements of the body at the same time.' The reference to the man in the UV cage is further filled in by this description from a live review in 'NME' (16.10.76); 'They had a scaffolding which enabled first Wolfgang, then he and Karl, to stand aside making traffic cop signals and create the electronic rhythm section simply by their hand gestures breaking photo- electric beams connecting various parts of the structure. Their hands glowed blue and it was all a bit ridiculous except maybe on 'Radioactivity''. Ridiculous?! I'm sure Jean-Michel Jarre would disagree with that, having got much mileage from this behaviour! A 1976 interview in 'Melody Maker' also found both Ralf and Florian in almost garrulous mood on the subject. Ralf; 'Not (to) dance to existing music but through dance create the music, and the first step we have found in this direction has been from the drum kit through body movements to trigger the music. ...we have had some technical problems with it, if the light beams are not exactly aligned, but now we only trigger the percussive side of the music. Later we will find things out so we can play body melodies'. An interview, of unknown origin but titled 'Tuning In With Kraftwerk', from the 'Radioactivity' era reveals more in the way of technicalities; Ralf once more; 'Through the use of photo- electric beams we set up a circuit which would operate a selection of cassette tapes when the beam was broken. By synchronising the rhythm on tape with the rhythm of a drummer's hand, say, an almost infinite variety of syncopations can be produced simply each time the drummer strikes a beat on his conventional drum kit. We patented this idea some time ago and have more recently been working with members of the Stuttgart Ballet Company on plans to stage a dance production which, through our light- triggered equipment, would play its own electronic music as a simultaneous accompaniment'. Scrutiny of Stuttgart Ballet Company's event programmes has failed to reveal such an event taking place, although the vagueness of the project doesn't help the search at all. Kraftwerk's equipment has always been a mixture of specially developed/customised technology. Even back in 1976 there is talk of an 'optical light disc' organ, to play melodies and rhythms. Presumably this may be the source of the slightly eerie sounds heard chiefly on 'Radioactivity' and 'Trans-Europe Express'. The idea that they may have produced such equipment for sale is a possibility raised in this quote from the German 'Sounds' magazine of 3/1977; 'Some of their instruments will be produced serially soon, so that people can do 'electronic housemusic' at their homes'. On a more light-hearted note; while not exactly a cancelled project, it is an interesting concept, worth bringing to light here; in an interview in 'Spex' magazine (4/1987) when asked if '...you might release Kraftwerk products under a different name?', Ralf answers with the bizarre idea of a franchised Kraftwerk!; 'Yes, but we rather think about giving licenses; then there would be a Kraftwerk/England, a Kraftwerk/America and a Kraftwerk/Japan. But this isn't concrete yet'. Books To date, Pascal Bussy's biography of Kraftwerk is the only dedicated book written about Kraftwerk that is known of. However, back in 1990 the first such tome about Kraftwerk was planned. Called 'Die Mensch-Maschine' and published by the German publishers Schirmel/Mosel Verlag it is described, in the official description from the publishers thus; 'This book is dedicated to the work of Kraftwerk [...]. It contains drafts, photos and the best stills from the commercially unavailable videos. The introduction was written by the [...] arts professor Otto Karl Werckmeister [...]. The book appears on the occasion of the new Kraftwerk world tour, which starts in November 1990.' Neither the book or the November 1990 tour materialised, the reason unknown. The publishers do not have any plans for its release now. Interviews with Ralf have again touched upon similar projects originated by the band themselves. There appears little substance to these, so there is no clue as to the form of the book. Again, an example of such a quote from Ralf, from 'Blick' newspaper (27.07.1991); 'When comes the book which was announced twelve years ago?' - 'It's still not finished.'. It is known that Wolfgang Fluer has been working on a book that details his days with Kraftwerk amongst other aspects of his life. Despite having been offered to various publishers, this remains unpublished as yet. It is to be hoped that such an 'inside' account of Kraftwerk will eventually appear in print and perhaps answer some of the mysteries raised by this article. What can we draw from these observations then? Kraftwerk are well taken with the concept of their work taking more than music itself as its form. The band have always been as concerned with the overall presentation of the music, via videos, live performance, graphics etc. Such activities are no doubt more involved and more time-consuming than simply producing the music itself. Is it simply that they bite off more than they can chew with projected activities. Perhaps the fault is that the ideas are discussed, in interviews, too soon, before the complexities of the act have been thought through. Or, more simply, is it a case of a bit of playfulness from Ralf Huetter, seeing how much the journalist is willing to swallow?! It would be foolish to take every quote as gospel truth it seems, judging by the obvious non-appearance of so many mooted projects. The true nature probably lies somewhere in the middle and with more else besides. The most galling aspect of it all is of course the incredible dearth of tangible activity/produkt from the band; when the band achieved so much in the 70's and early 80's, the continuing silence from Kling Klang studio, punctuated only by the revision of old material, grows ever louder. Perhaps the news that EMI have been told by Kraftwerk to expect an album release in 1996 gives us something to look forward to and may answer our queries. It all depends on which side of the argument you come down on; Kraftwerk may possibly be the first ever band to retire gracefully, while not terminating completely, an almost noble gesture in these times where ageing bands prostitute their muse, seemingly blind to their redundancy, never knowing when to call it a day. On the other hand, the obvious waste of talent that lies dormant, possibly from the fear of finding that you are no longer at the front of the pack is anathema to the likes of Brian Eno, who has profited as much from risk as strategy. Are these cancelled projects the signs of malaise or the evidence of risk? Unfortunately, a project such as 'Technopop'/'Electric Cafe' implies the former, that a band would spend the best part of four years refining a single album while so much around is changing. The fact that there is still such anticipation surrounding the prospect of new Kraftwerk produkt, despite the years of mere ticking over, suggests the latter; we all still keep the hope alive that Kraftwerk will end the years of self- imposed silence someday and release a genuinely 'new' record. Will it actually happen? Like most Kraftwerk matters, there's no easy answer, but plenty to ponder. - - END - 'The K-Files', parts 1-3; written by Ian Calder with extensive information/ translations from Klaus Zaepke. (Thanks Klaus). ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 20:21:06 +0100 Subject: electronic music on the Web... Really-From: majortom@muc.de (((mw))) Thanks to all who mailed me about my homepage :-) I've reworked it a bit - that is I've deleted all the old loops and put on some new music. I'd describe it as rythmic electronic music. All tracks were made without Midi. I hope you enjoy it :-) http://www.muc.de/~majortom/analogue/amusic.htm ________ michael __________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:09:49 -0500 Subject: Re: New KW Album due this Summer Really-From: Curryous@aol.com Here we go again....... I hope it's true, too! Russ Curry ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:50:00 -0600 Subject: WILL PAY TOP $$ FOR KW BOOTLEG CDS Really-From: Phil Lefkowitz I am looking to purchase on CD any or all of the below titles, can anyone help? 1. 1981 Tokyo concert ('Numbers', 'Nippon Numbers', 'Virtu Ex Machina' etc.) 2. 1981 concert 'Computers In Love' 3. Full concerts, 1991; 'Traffic Jam Om Autobahn', 'Rebuilt in '92' (Parts 1 and 2)(also will buy with a different title like 'Kraftwerk - Duesseldorf' or such.) 4. 1991 - 'N1 To Zuerich'/'Tanz Musik' (same recording on both discs, though 'N1...' is slightly longer). and also 'Kling Und Klang'. Phil Lefkowitz University of Chicago Graduate School of Business mplefkow@gsgpop.uchicago.edu "Create, don't vegitate" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 00:12:57 +0100 (MET) Subject: L.F.O-Karl Bartos. Really-From: Anders Wilhelm A small but interesting article is found at http://www.ghg-verlag.com/saturn/02_96/lfo.htm Concerning the possibility of a new Kraftwerk album this year, I would like to know more on where this infomation originates from. /anders - -- *************************************************************************** * Anders Wilhelm * em: dvlawm@cs.umu.se * "I program my Home-computer, * * Umea University * url:http://wwwtdb.cs.* feel myself into the future" * * Sweden * umu.se/~dvlawm/ * -Florian Schneider, 1981 * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #500 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #501 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 21 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 501 Re: CARS Re: Doepfer System A-100 Modul-Synthesizer Re; Who is Andy McCluskey? New record, old dreams Influences Re: CARS Re: CARS Re: CARS The Foreshadowing Of "Atom" KW on NewOrder (was Re: CARS) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 13:05:54 -0500 Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com Let's not forget New Order! SOngs like "The Perfect Kiss," "Bizarre Love Triangle," "Everything's Gone Green" and others are, to my taste, fantastic. If KW didn't exist I'd consider New Order the best electronic rock/pop/whatever band. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 13:48:12 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Doepfer System A-100 Modul-Synthesizer Really-From: Thomas Weckert On Sun, 17 Mar 1996, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de > > > > The April issue of the German "Keys" magazine reviews the A-100 > Synthesizer from Doepfer. The review includes a short statement from > A-100 tester Florian Schneider. > Bypacked is a free CD, that contains a vocoder poem from Florian > Schneider, read by himself. > > The lyrics are as following: > > Analog-Synthese mit System, > kleinlich, optisch, angenehm, > technisch, logisch, funktionell, > prototypisch und speziell, > modular und variabel, > leicht, kompakt und transportabel, > fuer ein Musikabenteuer > A-100 nicht zu teuer. > MIDI-Kontrolle vom Computer, > A-100, drittes Feature. > > > A Demo-CD for the A-100 is available from Doepfer for DM 15,00. Does > anyone know if this CD contains more Kraftwerk material? > > Klaus Zaepke > Additionally, they did (I think in 1993) several tracks for a demo CD of Quasimidi, the texture of the tracks was like Homecomputer, Autobahn, The Robots, etc., and that was it. Qusimidi itself never officially stated they they were done by Kraftwerk, they just said that they were recorded in a klinging Klang-Studio in Duesseldorf... Thomas ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 20 Mar 96 13:51:04 EST Subject: Re; Who is Andy McCluskey? Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@compuserve.com> > Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) > > Anyone can informe me : who is Andy McCluskey, singer of the track "Kissing > the Machine", of the Elektric Music's album "Esperanto" ? As previously posted, Andy McCluskey is the sole remaining original member of OMD (Orchestral Manouevres in the dark). As well as singing on 'Kissing The Machine' it is rumoured that he has done another track with Karl Bartos, though under what name this may be released is unknown, whether it be Elektric Music, OMD or something else, assuming that this rumour is correct of course. What's maybe worth shedding more light on is that Andy McCluskey has always been very upfront about how much he is a fan of Kraftwerk; he has for a number of years now been a regular 'soundbite' on BBC Radio 1 FM documentary programmes when electronic music and Kraftwerk in particular are mentioned. There is likely to be a short article in issue 8 of Aktivitaet about OMD and their specific Kraftwerk influences. In the meantime, some examples... One of Andy's first bands, VCL XI were named after a valve that can be seen in diagram form on the rear cover of Kraftwerk's 'Radio-Activity' LP! (Except it is VCL 11 on the KW LP, rather than the Roman numeral VCL XI ) OMD's second LP is called 'Organisation', the name of Ralf and Florian's pre-Kraftwerk band (though I believe OMD are on record as saying that this is just coincidence and that it was not inspired by this.) They did a cover version of 'Neon Lights' on their 1991 LP 'Sugar Tax'. IMHO, I'd agree with what was said in a previous mail, the earlier OMD LP's are better. If you're looking at it from purely a 'does it sound like KW' perspective, then you should check out OMD's fourth LP, 'Dazzle Ships', which borrows greatly from KW's 'Radio-Activity', even down to very similar lyrics on the OMD track 'Radio Waves'. ('From the transmitter, to the receiver, across the aether, out of your speaker' !) 'Time Zones' too is also a mirror of the techniques used in 'News'. The bands first four LP's ('Orchestral Manouvres in the dark', 'Organisation', 'Architecture & Morality' and 'Dazzle Ships') are where you'll find KW influences the most, from the above detailed 'Radio-Activity' influences to similar shaky Mellotron string sounds and metal bashing of 'TEE', these mainly in 'Architecture & Morality'. I would say though that, in general, early OMD had a fairly unique sound of their own and the KW influences are quite minimal, save for 'Dazzle Ships'. After 'Dazzle Ships' they added a brass section and relegated the weirdness factor a fair bit and were only interesting on fewer occasions. Ian Calder ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 14:44:21 +0000 Subject: New record, old dreams Really-From: "Salvador Macip" >There has also been speculation about Kraftwerk's involvement >with a project to be based in Barcelona, Spain, other contributors >being Brian Eno, Peter Gabriel and the like. This project was >mentioned briefly in the 1991 Radio DT64 German language radio >interview; 'In two years we will maybe participate in a project in >Barcelona. There will be a permanent installation of our music, >where we could do performances etc.' A site in Barcelona is >earmarked for this project but their has been no tangible progress >of any significance, the project, something of a multimedia them >park judging by descriptions, remains largely a pipedream at >present. > Hi all you electric people! I'm a Kraftwerk fan here in Barcelona, waiting as anxiously as everybody else for the new record. Reading this article (good work, people from Aktivitat, nice idea to post this stuff on the net!), I begin to realise that even this time the _official_ rumour can end being nothing more than the usual hoax...Well, there's nothing we can do! :-( But what I can do is comment this paragraph a little. The project you are refering to is Peter's Gabriel dream to build a Multimedia park in my town. He was here a years ago to find financial support to build the place; he had some nice drawings and he even claimed he had found the ideal place to build it. Avant-garde artists such as Eno, Laurie Anderson and David Byrne (not sure about this one) also collaborated to present the idea as a kind of garden of Eden where everybody could expand their artistic abilities...something very vague. It sounded great, of course, but we know it was only a wild dream. I didn't knew Kraftwerk were involved too. Anyway, it would have been great to have such a place built in my town, but business men round here are wise enough not to invest money in poet 's dreams, especially knowing Gabriel's financial record (i.e. WOMAD). What a pity! The government was happy to have our town chossen to this story, though, and collaborated in what was needed, except providing money. It has been all forgotten right now: we will probably see before a Video compilation from Kraftwerk than this place... Now I would like to ask something. What are all Kraftwerk members doing nowadays? I mean past and present members. Electric Music? Ralf & Florian (you'll never know with these two...)? What is the current KW line-up? Anyone? Any rumour? See you! Salva By pressing down a special key plays a little melodie BIP BIP BRRRRL __________________________________________________________________________ S a l v a d o r M a c i p , M . D . M o l e c u l a r G e n e t i c s R e s e a r c h G r o u p D e p t. o f P h y s i o l o g y (F a c. o f M e d i c i n e) U n i v e r s i t y o f B a r c e l o n a Av. Diagonal s/n. Pedralbes (Annex Farmacia) 08028 Barcelona CATALUNYA(SPAIN) Tel: 34-3-402.45.18. FAX: 34-3-402.18.96. E-Mail:macip@medicina.ub.es _________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 12:32:43 +0000 () Subject: Influences Really-From: Brian MacDonald Let's face it. Discussing Kraftwerk's influence on electronic music is like discussing KISS's influence on glam metal... or Bob Marley's influence on reggae. Both Kraftwerk and James Brown pretty much form the foundation of modern dance music, at least in the pop forum. K!z!K "Rock & Roll is gonna set the night on fire... Rock & Roll is gonna set the night on fire" -- Pretty Boy Floyd ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 22:15:30 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 01:05 PM 3/20/96 -0500, Spotnik@aol.com wrote: >Let's not forget New Order! SOngs like "The Perfect Kiss," "Bizarre Love >Triangle," "Everything's Gone Green" and others are, to my taste, fantastic. >If KW didn't exist I'd consider New Order the best electronic >rock/pop/whatever band. Now you're talking! I'm actually listening to New Order right now in the CD-rom drive while I'm typing this. Of course, we must remember that Peter Hook (bass player from New Order) confessed many times to New Order's deep respect for Kraftwerk as the pioneers of electronic music, and they also claim to have been heavily influenced by them as well. True, the music of New Order is highly guitar-driven with a much brasher, more rock-oriented approach than Kraftwerk, but we cannot overlook the attention they both pay to detail, particularly when it comes to art and conceptualism. Both are fantastic bands who've made a lasting mark on the music world. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "The young man stepped into the hall of mirrors..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 16:23:37 -0500 Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (Steve Lang) >Let's not forget New Order! SOngs like "The Perfect Kiss," "Bizarre Love >Triangle," "Everything's Gone Green" and others are, to my taste, fantastic. >If KW didn't exist I'd consider New Order the best electronic >rock/pop/whatever band. Oh, yeah, New Order is very good.... but don't forget about industrial! JoN "altered music shadow covers...." -Skinny Puppy ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 22:12:01 GMT-3:00 Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: Eduardo Marcel Macan > deep respect for Kraftwerk as the pioneers of electronic music, and they > also claim to have been heavily influenced by them as well. When New Order came to Brazil in 1988 (or was it 1989) They said to a Brazilian music magazine that after their 1st album their producer came to them, showed a couple of KW albums and said "Listen, that's what you should be doing!" This was remarkable, because I started liking Electronic music after listening to New Order (the Substance album) and when I read that I started paying more attention to an Album my brother had, called "Trans Europe Express"... :) Eduardo "The young man stoped into Kling Klang studio, where he begged for a new KW album..." :) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 02:00:02 +0000 (GMT) Subject: The Foreshadowing Of "Atom" Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu Fellow Kraftwerkians, Greetings all. I was just listening to my 'Kraftwerk' (1970) cd, and particularly my personal favorite track from this LP, "Megaherz". As the track reached its final 10 seconds, something dawned on me. Did anyone else out here catch the breathing noises that can be heard at the very end of this song? If you're not sure what I'm referring to, throw on either the cd or the vinyl record and take a listen to the very end of "Megaherz". The breathing noises that can be heard sound a lot like the same breathing from "Atom" and "Strom" on 'Kraftwerk 2' (1972). Perhaps "Megaherz" was foreshadowing what was to come 2 years later on down the road. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "From station to station..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 23:52:38 -0400 Subject: KW on NewOrder (was Re: CARS) Really-From: fl12@cornell.edu (fernando) >Really-From: Eduardo Marcel Macan >When New Order came to Brazil in 1988 (or was it 1989) They said to a Brazilian >music magazine that after their 1st album their producer came to them, showed >a couple of KW albums and said "Listen, that's what you should be doing!" Hmm. That is not what they have said in other interviews... they claim that JoyDivision's lead singer, Ian Curtis, loved KW and introduced them (along with VU and IggyPop) to the rest of the band (which became NewOrder). Indeed, the label for their first single on Factory, Transmission, has a design drawn from the back cover of the ManMachine album. This telling, by Bernard (the lead singer), is also found in their NewOrderStory video. later, fernando "my chest is burning, like if someone set my soul alight"-- the Chameleons "heart and soul... one will burn" -- Joy Division "death is not the answer, for your soul may burn in hell"-- the The ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #501 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #502 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Friday, 22 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 502 Re: CARS Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' Kraftwerk and New Order Early Orchestral Manoeuvres Re: CARS Cone GIF Re: CARS / Industrial suggestions industrial(hope nobody minds too much:) Re: KW on NewOrder (was Re: CARS) Re: CARS Re: Cone GIF Re: Doepfer System A-100 Modul-Synthesizer Re: KW/New Order Other Electronic Music ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 12:10:36 -0500 Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com No, I won't! Any suggestions for what albums i should check out? My tastes are wide open.... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 21 Mar 96 13:03:39 EST Subject: Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@compuserve.com> Vorsprung durch Technik? by Mark Stagg, September 1994 (Aktivitaet 6) Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * If you want to know what Kraftwerk are up to these days, you're better off scanning the pages of the music technology press, rather than the conventional music papers and magazines. The first of these was with regard to the MAQ 16/3 Analog/MIDI sequencer, a new product by German company Doepfer. Briefly, this device harks back to the early days of sequencing, having perhaps more in common with classic drum-machines rather than the software-based sequencers popular at the moment. Rows of knobs are each stepped through in turn - forwards, backwards or both. Each of these knobs can be adjusted to output a certain type of MIDI message, note information for example, or perhaps changes to program (sound) or volume. This approach lends itself well to the creation of fast, unusual, hypnotic and even mechanical sounding musical sequences, rather different from that which a musician might come up with when playing a conventional keyboard. Florian Schneider was apparently quite involved with the development of the 16/3, being regularly sent updates to the operating system and giving his comments in return. The unit is now generally available at a price of L666, although both New Order and The Human League, who have also recently purchased the 16/3, will have to make do with the standard black finish; Florian's, of course, is grey - to match the Kling Klang livery! Doepfer, it seems, have enjoyed a healthy working relationship with Kraftwerk over the last few years, having built the mini-keyboard that Ralf used during live performances of 'Pocket Calculator' and carrying out other work for the band, such as the MIDI-retrofit on their old EMS vocoder. And its another of the company's recent products, the MOGLI-MIDI Glove that has also found favour with our musical heroes. This unusual device (an abbreviation of MIDI Operated Glove Interface) is actually based on a games peripheral - the Nintendo Power Glove - which has been modified to generate MIDI information. Various hand movements can therefore control the music in different ways, triggering a certain sound, for example, or increasing/decreasing volume. The MOGLI was used by Florian Schneider during Kraftwerk's appearance at the ARS Electronica festival in Linz, Austria, July 1993, where he donned the glove for 'Pocket Calculator' and 'Music Non Stop'. The glove is now commercially available to all-and-sundry priced at a very reasonable L366. Remember though that both these products do not actually make any sound of their own, merely offering ways of controlling other devices that do. One such device might be the QUASAR Synthesizer Module, the latest addition to the Kling Klang racks. This piece of kit, manufactured by another German company, Quasimidi, looks set to become a very popular sound source among electronic music-types, featuring as it does a large collection of vintage synthesizer and drum- machine sounds, together with real instrument samples, effects processing and the option of three different types of synthesis (subtractive, additive and FM), whereas most modules usually offer just one. Also included is another echo of the old-days of synthesizers; the arpeggiator. And there are even a handful of sounds named directly after Kraftwerk themselves, who promptly purchased four QUASAR's (it has been reported elsewhere), preserving, as ever, the Kling Klang symmetry. The unit is now available in this country from a supplier called Music Connections, whose salesman described it as "Kraftwerk in a box" no less! The price is around L1000, depending on the various memory options available. So what are Kraftwerk up to with this new gear? Obviously they must be doing *something* with their purchases, so I suppose its fairly encouraging in that respect. The QUASAR article in 'Sound On Sound' magazine mentioned that they were using the modules on their "next album and tour", though quite when these will see the light of day is another matter altogether, as we all know by now. And, scratching below the surface for a moment, I do think there are a couple of pertinent observations that can be made. Throughout the seventies and early eighties, the Kling Klang arsenal would consist of all manner of weird and wonderful devices, many of them custom-made, some modified from existing equipment and others just plain and simply bloody expensive! By contrast, what these three new products have in common (besides being manufactured in Germany) is that they are all widely available and relatively cheap. Even the powerful Synclavier system, which Kraftwerk adopted during the second half of the eighties, seems to have been replaced by a clutch of industry-standard, and somewhat cheaper, AKAI samplers. And glancing around the live-performance Kling Klang set-up over the last three years reveals that many other, quite common 'off the peg' items, from such established names as Roland, Yamaha, Waldorf, AMS and TC Electronics. In short, *mainstream* equipment. On the one hand of course, all of this completely vindicates Kraftwerk's original vision of electronic-music-as-modern-day-folk- music, with the means to make such music available to everyone. On the other hand however, I think we can begin to see something of the bands current dilemma. As long ago as 1981, Ralf commented in an interview "we spend a month on the sound and five minutes on the chord changes". And indeed, the band have never seemed interested in releasing records when, say, they have a collection of new songs, like conventional artists do. The only time we get a new Kraftwerk record these days is when they feel they have a new technology to explore, such as the all- digital methods employed on 1991's 'The Mix'. In 1994 then, when you or I can go out and buy ourselves a QUASAR module and create music not entirely dissimilar to Kraftwerk's, perhaps there is simply no reason for a new Kraftwerk album to exist. I'd love to be proved wrong of course... Mark Stagg, September 1994 Latest news; One of Aktivitaet's German readers, Klaus Zaepke, adds that adverts for the Quasimidi QUASAR sound module mentions that "a well known synthesizer band from Duesseldorf" use the QUASAR because of its analogue sounds and that a small close-up photo from a "klinging Klang-studio" with two QUASAR's installed was also published. The second demo-CD to promote the QUASAR is also available which contains a track called 'Die Zensur' (Duesseldorf Mix) (English; 'The Censor') which is very much in the style of Kraftwerk. - -END- ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 12:21:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: Kraftwerk and New Order Really-From: Jason Musser Yeah, for what it's worth, I read in the Joy Division book (the title of which escapes me at the moment) that Ian was keen on Kraftwerk. The book even claimed that he used to make his band-mates listen to "Trans-Europe Express" before performances, if you buy that. I always had a hard time getting excited about New Order since I'd been a Joy Division fan first. New Order seemed kind of shallow by comparison. My first exposure to New Order was a tape someone made me of the 'Blue Monday'/'The Beach' 12 inch. I didn't realize it till I heard 'Substance' years later, but he'd inadvertantly recorded those songs with the record player at 33 1/3 instead of 45! After hearing them played at the intended speed, I find that I much prefer the slow versions... - -Jason ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 19:14:18 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Early Orchestral Manoeuvres Really-From: Kevin Busby Ian Calder <101460.571@compuserve.com:- > 'Architecture & Morality'. I would say though that, in general, early OMD had > a fairly unique sound of their own and the KW influences are quite minimal, > save for 'Dazzle Ships'. One exception: 'Electricity' was obviously influenced by 'Radioactivity'. But it was a very different song (unlike, say 'Reel-to-Reel Cacophony' by Simple Minds - anyone remember that?!). Kevin ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:44:40 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: Brendan Heading >>Let's not forget New Order! SOngs like "The Perfect Kiss," "Bizarre Love >>Triangle," "Everything's Gone Green" and others are, to my taste, fantastic. >>If KW didn't exist I'd consider New Order the best electronic >>rock/pop/whatever band. >The music >of New Order is highly guitar-driven with a much brasher, more rock-oriented >approach than Kraftwerk, but we cannot overlook the attention they both pay >to detail, particularly when it comes to art and conceptualism. Both are >fantastic bands who've made a lasting mark on the music world. Me's a NO fan also! Kraftwerk influence is particularly noted in the BRILLIANT tracks "Blue Monday" and "True Faith". Must get some NO stuff. I heard their first album ages ago, and it sounded a LITTLE weak. What's their best album ? - --- Brendan Heading (brendan@heading.demon.co.uk) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 13:01:10 -0800 Subject: Cone GIF Really-From: Luther Welsh Friends-- Off my home page, I have a small music page that is very much under construction (and will be for a long time). Probably the only thing of interest to you is a KW traffic cone GIF that I made. Please feel free to lift a copy for yourselves. The cone is on page: http://www.scruznet.com/~luke/music.htm Some of you may want to visit my "Die Wildecker Herzbuben Home Page". But be warned! It is only for the brave of heart and strong of stomach. http://www.scruznet.com/~luke/herzbub.htm Finally, one of you recently mentioned, in passing, that this was "a musician's mailing list". I didn't know that! I hope the rest of us are also welcome! - --Luke http://www.scruznet.com/~luke | Luke Welsh | "Ich bin Ihr Diener und Ihr Herr zugleich" | | luke@scruznet.com | <"I am both your servant and your master"> | | luke@svpal.org | Kraftwerk, The Voice Of Energy | ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 22:29:31 +0100 Subject: Re: CARS / Industrial suggestions Really-From: Paulo Mouat > No, I won't! Any suggestions for what albums i should check out? My > tastes are wide open.... I have some 40 CDs on industrial music, but are mainly of some half a dozen bands--I concentrated on the more electronic side of the vast industrial genre, particularly what could be termed as "cyberpunk," although none of the bands claim to be so (in spite of flagrant aesthetics, some of them...) OK. Let's see... I'll list some of my favourites, with perfect knowledge that I'm talking of my tastes and presenting a very narrow selection). On a lighter and not so noisy sound, you have Front 242. Typical EBM, there are also more industrial-like tracks. CDs/Tracks - Front By Front (Circling Overland, Headhunter), Tyranny For You (Sacrifice, Rhythm Of Time, Neurobashing), 06:21:03:11 Up Evil (Skin, Melt, Flag). If you want overt cyberpunk, try Front Line Assembly. Hard techno without that all too common underground/dance aesthetics. Noisier than Front 242 but more powerful sound. Music that fits perfectly with movies like Predator II--a near-future urban sprawl chaos. CDs/Tracks - The Blade (Target), Tactical Neural Implant (Final Impact, Mindphaser, Bio-Mechanic), Millenium (Vigilante, Liquid Separation,), Hardwired (Neologic Spasm, Barcode). On the weirder side of industrial, you should try Skinny Puppy and particularly one of its offspring, Download. CDs/Tracks - Worlock CDsing (Worlock ed), Last Rights (Circustance, Download). From Download, CDs/Tracks - Furnace (haven't memorized the tracks yet, but they all are pretty good--and strange :-) ...). Hope this helps! (there are other good bands, not exclusively electronic as the above, such as Laibach or SPK, which frequently have a crossover attitude towards the style of their music). - -- ********************************* Paulo Mouat, mouat@telepac.pt ********************************* ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 15:51:35 -0500 Subject: industrial(hope nobody minds too much:) Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (Steve Lang) >No, I won't! Any suggestions for what albums i should check out? My tastes >are wide open.... Industrial? Well, i'll just name a few of my favorites. Einsturzende Neubauten- Strategies Against Architecture(early cling clang noise) Throbbing Gristle- The Second Annual Report(early noise) Skinny Puppy- Back and Forth Series Two(early Puppy), Too Dark Park(my favorite album), Rabies(mildly newer guitar stuff) Front 242- Backcatalogue(perfect mix of industrial and synthpop!) KMFDM- What Do You Know Deutchland?(sp?) and theres plenty more but those are some of the more well known ones that I like. Some of you folks probably know alot more than I about industrial since I wasn't of listening age when these bands started and what not. Only Skinny Puppy do I like more than KW. JoN brap on! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 18:12:38 GMT-3:00 Subject: Re: KW on NewOrder (was Re: CARS) Really-From: Eduardo Marcel Macan > >a couple of KW albums and said "Listen, that's what you should be doing!" > Hmm. That is not what they have said in other interviews... they > claim that JoyDivision's lead singer, Ian Curtis, loved KW and introduced > them (along with VU and IggyPop) to the rest of the band (which became > NewOrder). Indeed, the label for their first single on Factory, > Transmission, has a design drawn from the back cover of the ManMachine > album. This telling, by Bernard (the lead singer), is also found in their > NewOrderStory video. Well, maybe they meant their producer wanted them to sound more electro nic...and a bit less depressive... as somebody said about their first album... the ghost of Ian Curtis was still around on the tracks of the LP... I think KW music is very optimistic, I could listen to The Man Machine non stop many times, but I never got to listen to CLOSER twice in a row, though I like them the same... but this is falling out of the scope of the list I think :) regards Eduardo ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 00:13:17 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 02:44 PM 3/21/96 -0600, Brendan Heading wrote: >Me's a NO fan also! Kraftwerk influence is particularly noted in the BRILLIANT >tracks "Blue Monday" and "True Faith". Must get some NO stuff. I heard their >first album ages ago, and it sounded a LITTLE weak. What's their best album ? > > >--- Brendan Heading (brendan@heading.demon.co.uk) What's their best album, huh? Hmmm...let's see here. Well, being someone who feels a deep affection for totally synth-oriented, computerized music, my personal favorite New Order album is "Technique" from 1989, since this album is much more electronic and dancey than the rest of the New Order catalog. When listening to this album, check out songs like "Fine Time", "Vanishing Point", and "Round & Round" for the full electronic effect. However, the 1987 New Order album known as "Substance" tends to be their most popular album with the fans since it is a double album set and a sort of "best hits" compilation spanning their career from 1981 through 1987. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "We're charging our battery..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 00:13:20 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Cone GIF Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 01:01 PM 3/21/96 -0800, Luther Welsh wrote: >Friends-- > >Off my home page, I have a small music page that is very much under >construction (and will be for a long time). Probably the only thing >of interest to you is a KW traffic cone GIF that I made. Please feel >free to lift a copy for yourselves. Just thought I'd add that about a month ago I designed an exact duplication of the Kraftwerk cone by hand as a bitmap file for my PC, which I'm currently using as wallpaper for my desktop. :O) It's always fun to see what the cone would have looked like in different colors had Kraftwerk continued to use it on their successive album covers. Does anyone else here think that if KW releases a new album this year, they should bring back the traffic cone on the cover? Personally, I would love it, but it seems more like KW would rather forget their first 3 albums entirely. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "It's in the air for you and me..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 20:27:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Doepfer System A-100 Modul-Synthesizer Really-From: Nthings@aol.com does anyone know where i can get the demo cd? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 21 Mar 96 21:31:32 EST Subject: Re: KW/New Order Really-From: Mark Stagg <101706.1667@compuserve.com> Here's a piece of trivia regarding the Kraftwerk/New Order connection: The original title for NO's 'Your Silent Face' (from 1983's 'Power Corruption & Lies' album) was 'Kraftwerk One' ('KW1') because the hypnotic argeggio sequence that runs through the track was thought by the band to be very Kraftwerkian. And the track is still referred to as 'KW1' by the (former?) members of NO to this day, who in typical fashion only made up the final title on the spur of the moment, when label copy for the record was required. On the early Factory US cassette release of the album, of which I have a copy, the original title is used, although it is somehow mutated into 'Kwi'. On a related subject, I have been told by a mutual aquaintance here in Manchester, England, that Electronic (i.e. Bernard Sumner & Johnny Marr) have now fallen out with Karl Bartos, and though Bartos has definitely made some contributions to the forthcoming Electronic album, he is not going to be a full member of the band, as previously reported in the UK music press. Mark Stagg ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 03:41:04 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Other Electronic Music Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu Fellow Kraftwerkians, Since there's been this discussion of people's favorite electronic music other than Kraftwerk, I figured I'd get in on the action too and offer my listening suggestions for all lovers of electronic and synth-oriented music. Bear in mind that none of these bands sound like Kraftwerk or necessarily attempt to, but their common bond is that they were influenced by KW and are electronic in nature. While these are all favorites of mine, I still like KW the very best of all, but here goes: Synth-Pop ========= New Order Depeche Mode Pet Shop Boys Cause & Effect Camouflage (also German - great band!) Modern Talking Erasure Yaz Bukimi 3 Anything Box Industrial ========== Front 242 Nitzer Ebb Frontline Assembly Nine Inch Nails (I can imagine what you're all saying - hehe) Mona Lisa Overdrive Skinny Puppy Contagion KMFDM Insekt Dance/Techno ============ Red Flag Psykosonik The Overlords Juno Reactor 808 State Sunscreem Well, that's a few of them, anyway... :oP Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Turn the dials with your hand..." ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #502 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #503 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Saturday, 23 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 503 Re: KW/New Order Bartos & Elektric Music Autobahn Video Forthcoming (?) Electronic Album Steinberg's "Das Modell" Cover Re: WILL PAY TOP $$ FOR KW BO Re: Other Electronic Music Re: re SAD?? Re: New KW Album due this Summer Re: Other Electronic Music Re: re SAD?? Re: CARS Re: Other Electronic Music Re: Other Electronic Music Re: Bartos & Elektric Music Re: Other Electronic Music ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:26:25 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: KW/New Order Really-From: Anders Wilhelm > On a related subject, I have been told by a mutual aquaintance here in > Manchester, England, that Electronic (i.e. Bernard Sumner & Johnny Marr) have > now fallen out with Karl Bartos, and though Bartos has definitely made some > contributions to the forthcoming Electronic album, he is not going to be a full > member of the band, as previously reported in the UK music press. So this means that Karl may get back to do what he *really* should that, continue with Elektric Music... Or can it be that Karl has to joined LFO. Does anyone know how involved he is with them? Listening to the new album it strikes me how much the track Psychodelic resembles one of the improvised(?) songs that Electric Music played on their first tour. /anders - -- *************************************************************************** * Anders Wilhelm * em: dvlawm@cs.umu.se * "I program my Home-computer, * * Umea University * url:http://wwwtdb.cs.* feel myself into the future" * * Sweden * umu.se/~dvlawm/ * -Florian Schneider, 1981 * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:18:30 +0000 Subject: Bartos & Elektric Music Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de > So this means that Karl may get back to do what he *really* should that, > continue with Elektric Music... I've recently heard a rumour that Elektric Music will continue as a Karl Bartos solo project. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:18:30 +0000 Subject: Autobahn Video Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de Last Monday there was a documentary film about the Autobahn on German TV channel WDR 3, "Reichsautobahn", based on historic film material from the 1930ies. Some of these film snippets were also used by Kraftwerk for the video they played as accompaniment for "Autobahn" during their 1990-1993 concerts. The documentary was from 1984, so I'm wondering: Was the 1981 version of the video different from the 1990-1993 version? Were the historic b/w parts of video already present in 1981? Any eye-witnesses? BTW: Has somebody recorded this documentary? Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:18:30 +0000 Subject: Forthcoming (?) Electronic Album Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de > Bartos has definitely made some contributions to the forthcoming Electronic > album This album is now announced and postponed again and again since almost two years... Are there still any concrete plans for a release? Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:18:29 +0000 Subject: Steinberg's "Das Modell" Cover Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de Here are the full details about Steinberg's "Das Modell" picture shape CD single: Steinberg: Das Modell (Pikosso Records 743 213 547 02) 1. Das Modell (Dancefloor Mix) 4:05" 2. Das Modell (Happy Mix) 3:53" 3. Das Modell (Rave Version) 3:17" Composed by Ralf Huetter & Karl Bartos 1978 Produced and mixed at the Sample Temple Studio, Berlin by Nick Kevlar & Steve Manchini Published by Kling Klang Musik Verlag Powered by Oma Meinherz (70 years) Very special thanks for supporting with Soft- and Hardware to the Steinberg team: Karl, Manfred, Markus, Torsten, Michael, Norbert & Wolfgang Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 21:39:00 +0200 Subject: Re: WILL PAY TOP $$ FOR KW BO Really-From: dolf.wiemer@bbs.hacom.nl (DOLF WIEMER) FOR SALE: Bootlegs: Non Stop (2CD), 1991 Stockholm Hyper Cerebral Machine, 1981 Firenze Academy Theathre (2CD) Rimini Rimimi (2CD) N1 to Zurich. Please respond if interested. groeten, Dolf / / dolf.wiemer@bbs.hacom.nl ----/---/---- Dolf Wiemer, the Netherlands / / Tel.: int +31 24 677 00 06 ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:52:39 GMT Subject: Re: Other Electronic Music Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) Scots list: >========= >New Order >Depeche Mode >Pet Shop Boys >Cause & Effect >Camouflage (also German - great band!) >Modern Talking >Erasure >Yaz >Bukimi 3 >Anything Box I would agree with most of these, however I would add: Propoganda Fiction Factory Gary Numan Human League FGTH AFOS Art of Noise THe ZTT ones really are excellent..... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:13:17 GMT Subject: Re: re SAD?? Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) A selection of the nice things some people say about me............ >He crawls out of his dweeby hole every so >often and tries to stir up trouble. >During his last little foray into our list, he had a lot of wishful thinkers >believing that the next KW album was being released shortly. He had an >unnamed source. Never mind that a few days ago he flamed somebody on this >list for not naming sources. > >My advice is to ignore him. And if anybody responds to Brian here on the >list, then to politely and *privately* ask the responder to keep quiet. > >I just hope that "somebody whose account was hacked" doesn't send us a meg of >uuencoded wavs, again. I have to reply to this. The point I try to make by writing to this list is that nobody is an authority on what Kraftwerk are doing and thinking. Least of all those one or two people who are self proclaimed authorities on Kraftwerk. I will not bad mouth people directly as this serves no purpose. Those one or two people who have pompous illusions of grandeur should realise this list is open to any one with an interest in Kraftwerk and an e-mail account. I always respect the right of others to discuss what they like on this list, even though it may be of little or no interest to me. The atmosphere is generally good, compared to many lists it is blissful. It is only mails like the one above that spoil this and underline the old saying that one or two bad apples spoil the bunch. There have been many rumours of a new album. The point I am making is that these should not necessarily be taken seriously, even though they may be genuine. Finally, this is a mailing list not the Nine O'clock News. If some of its content is wrong so what...... Brian PS: Lukes final comment was as follows: >Goodbye, Brian Gaze. Go find somebody else to play with. *plonk* If the majority of people want me to stop writing to the list I will. Please feel free to comment. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:23:00 GMT Subject: Re: New KW Album due this Summer Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) I certainly hope this rumour is true. In my opinion it is now do or die as far as Kraftwerk is concerned. A new album this summer could well renew interest in the band and introduce many new people to them. There is however a danger that they will not stand out from the crowd. Making an electronic record is no longer the preserve of the few. The quality of the music will be far more important than the quality of the production. In my opinion they should look towards the idea of a united europe for the theme of the album. The production should be............well it depends on when the record is released. The Shamens album 'Axis Mutatis' sound dated when released last year because it was so long in the making. By the time it was released the production styles were old fashioned (relatively). I have a feeling the new album may take its inspiration from some of their earlier material. Certainly the Computer World - Electric Cafe era is gone. Dance bands have taken this and are developing it continually. If Kraftwerk try to compete with these they will sound good, they may sound great, but they will not be anything different. Therefore Kraftwerk will surprise us all agin with a futuristic return to the past....... >Hi, > >I've been hasteling with myself if I should post this or not but I've >decided to do it, so here goes... > >This information is from a friend who knows Mr. Doepfer, the owner of >the German Synth Company of the same name quite well. Doepfer works a >lot with KW, as seen by Florian Schneider's Poem for them and Mr. >Doepfer visits their studio frequently. Last time he was there he >supposedly heard their new album. He claims it is totally new >material, alledgedly quite different from the old music. He says KW >gave him a tape of this material and he had to promise of course not >to play it to anyone. KW told him the lp is to be released this >summer... > >So this is the info, lets hope it's true and KW doesn't decide to >destroy the masters again... > >________ michael __________________________________________________ > > ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 17:35:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Other Electronic Music Really-From: gewither@mailbox.syr.edu (gewither) >-- Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Scots list: >>========= >>New Order >>Depeche Mode >>Pet Shop Boys >>Cause & Effect >>Camouflage (also German - great band!) >>Modern Talking >>Erasure >>Yaz >>Bukimi 3 >>Anything Box >I would agree with most of these, however I would add: >Propoganda >Fiction Factory >Gary Numan >Human League >FGTH >AFOS >Art of Noise >THe ZTT ones really are excellent..... I like all those mentioned, except MODERN TALKING!!!! GET REAL!!!! (Wurg!) :) Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/950HD 030/882/17Mb 50Mhz //// makes A2386 & VGA & 150MB HD gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum 28/24 \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 CD-ROM ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 16:16:55 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: re SAD?? Really-From: Lazlo Nibble > I always respect the right of others to discuss what they like on this list, > even though it may be of little or no interest to me. Up to and including the right to discuss the fact that someone else on the list has a habit of posting unsupportable nonsense, I hope. - -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:49:14 GMT Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) You'll should buy the double album called substance which has New Orders greatist hits on it. This was released in the 88 I think. Since then they have released some very good material - Technique is worth buying........ if your budget will stretch to this!!! Brian >Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu > > >At 02:44 PM 3/21/96 -0600, Brendan Heading wrote: > >>Me's a NO fan also! Kraftwerk influence is particularly noted in the BRILLIANT >>tracks "Blue Monday" and "True Faith". Must get some NO stuff. I heard their >>first album ages ago, and it sounded a LITTLE weak. What's their best album ? >> >> >>--- Brendan Heading (brendan@heading.demon.co.uk) > > What's their best album, huh? Hmmm...let's see here. Well, being >someone who feels a deep affection for totally synth-oriented, computerized >music, my personal favorite New Order album is "Technique" from 1989, since >this album is much more electronic and dancey than the rest of the New Order >catalog. When listening to this album, check out songs like "Fine Time", >"Vanishing Point", and "Round & Round" for the full electronic effect. > However, the 1987 New Order album known as "Substance" tends to be >their most popular album with the fans since it is a double album set and a >sort of "best hits" compilation spanning their career from 1981 through 1987. > >Robotically Yours, >Scott M. Barnhill >mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >"We're charging our battery..." > > ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 23:56:23 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Other Electronic Music Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 05:35 PM 3/22/96 -0500, gewither@mailbox.syr.edu (gewither) wrote: >>Scots list: >>>========= >>>New Order >>>Depeche Mode >>>Pet Shop Boys >>>Cause & Effect >>>Camouflage (also German - great band!) >>>Modern Talking >>>Erasure >>>Yaz >>>Bukimi 3 >>>Anything Box >I like all those mentioned, except MODERN TALKING!!!! GET REAL!!!! (Wurg!) :) >Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/950HD 030/882/17Mb 50Mhz > //// makes A2386 & VGA & 150MB HD >gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum 28/24 > \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 CD-ROM Well, as far as I can tell from the empirical evidence before me and my reaction to external stimuli, I *am* real, and what's more, I still like Modern Talking very much. Modern Talking became a huge international craze back in the 70s, primarily in Europe and then spreading their influence over to the U.S. as new European immigrants began to filter in, bringing their Modern Talking records and cassettes with them. Modern Talking combined the classic elements of pop disco together with the electronic synthesis of Kraftwerk, and went on to inspire some of the best electronic musical acts of the 80s, like the Pet Shop Boys and Erasure. Over the last 2 years, their material has begun to surface on CD in record shops across America and is no longer only to be found in the International section of the stores. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Eins...Zwei...Drei...Vier..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 23:00:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Other Electronic Music Really-From: gewither@mailbox.syr.edu (gewither) >-- Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >At 05:35 PM 3/22/96 -0500, gewither@mailbox.syr.edu (gewither) wrote: >>>Scots list: >>>>========= >>>>New Order >>>>Depeche Mode >>>>Pet Shop Boys >>>>Cause & Effect >>>>Camouflage (also German - great band!) >>>>Modern Talking >>>>Erasure >>>>Yaz >>>>Bukimi 3 >>>>Anything Box >>I like all those mentioned, except MODERN TALKING!!!! GET REAL!!!! (Wurg!) >>:) Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/950HD 030/882/17Mb >>50Mhz >> //// makes A2386 & VGA & 150MB HD >>gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum >>28/24 >> \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 CD-ROM > Well, as far as I can tell from the empirical evidence before me and >my reaction to external stimuli, I *am* real, and what's more, I still like >Modern Talking very much. Modern Talking became a huge international craze >back in the 70s, primarily in Europe and then spreading their influence over >to the U.S. as new European immigrants began to filter in, bringing their >Modern Talking records and cassettes with them. Modern Talking combined the >classic elements of pop disco together with the electronic synthesis of >Kraftwerk, and went on to inspire some of the best electronic musical acts >of the 80s, like the Pet Shop Boys and Erasure. Over the last 2 years, >their material has begun to surface on CD in record shops across America and >is no longer only to be found in the International section of the stores. >Robotically Yours, >Scott M. Barnhill >mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >"Eins...Zwei...Drei...Vier..." You mean the german band Modern Talking with Dieter Bolan right? If so they were the worst kitsch band ever!. all the other Bands ar egreat though. Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/950HD 030/882/17Mb 50Mhz //// makes A2386 & VGA & 150MB HD gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum 28/24 \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 CD-ROM ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 05:16:28 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Bartos & Elektric Music Really-From: Anders Wilhelm > > Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de > > > > > So this means that Karl may get back to do what he *really* should that, > > continue with Elektric Music... > > I've recently heard a rumour that Elektric Music will continue as a Karl Bartos > solo project. > > Klaus Zaepke > Has anything happened between Karl Bartos and Lothar Manteuffel and Ralf Beck? If that is the case what is Lothar doing now? /anders - -- *************************************************************************** * Anders Wilhelm * em: dvlawm@cs.umu.se * "I program my Home-computer, * * Umea University * url:http://wwwtdb.cs.* feel myself into the future" * * Sweden * umu.se/~dvlawm/ * -Florian Schneider, 1981 * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 23:01:33 -0600 Subject: Re: Other Electronic Music Really-From: datta@archive.uwp.edu Ummm, folks could you please edit out some of the growing previous conversations in this thread? There is no need to quote everything every reply... ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #503 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #504 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Sunday, 24 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 504 Re: Influences Re: Other Electronic Music Re: Other Electronic Music Kraftwerk & LFO Re: Bartos & Elektric Music Re: Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' Re: Other Electronic Music ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 01:12:11 -0800 Subject: Re: Influences Really-From: llacost@ix.netcom.com (Larry LaCost Jr. ) You wrote: I will make sure that this is on a 30 day approval. The request I made was on an approval basis and I will adjust it if this is not the case. > - ------- majordomo@cs.uwp.edu that the available list. - ------- >Really-From: Brian MacDonald > > > >Let's face it. Discussing Kraftwerk's influence on electronic music is >like discussing KISS's influence on glam metal... or Bob Marley's >influence on reggae. > >Both Kraftwerk and James Brown pretty much form the foundation of modern >dance music, at least in the pop forum. > >K!z!K > >"Rock & Roll is gonna set the night on fire... > Rock & Roll is gonna set the night on fire" -- Pretty Boy Floyd > > ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:35:10 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Other Electronic Music Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 11:00 PM 3/22/96 -0500, gewither@mailbox.syr.edu (gewither) wrote: >You mean the german band Modern Talking with Dieter Bolan right? If so they >were the worst kitsch band ever!. all the other Bands ar egreat though. > >Jerry Withers Yes, that is indeed the Modern Talking I am referring to, with Dieter Bolan. There is only one Modern Talking, and they are indeed a band that has made great strides in crossing the international electronic music boundaries, as I mentioned in my previous letter. They made an especially heavy impact in European nations like Germany (their homeland) and Russia, and then their influence spread to England and the U.S. After Modern Talking, Dieter went on to form the band Blue System, which continued to mantain the international appeal and sustenance of his previous band. You do not have to like all of the bands I put on my suggested listening list, or even like any of them for that matter. I put the list there so people with an interest in either the historical, cultural, or popular aspects of electronic music over the past 15 years or so, would have a guide with which to broaden their horizons and wet their appetities. You are certainly entitled to express your opinion freely here, regardless of how poor and shallow I may find your opinion to be. ;o) Carry on, folks. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "I'm the antenna catching vibrations..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 09:00:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Other Electronic Music Really-From: gewither@mailbox.syr.edu (gewither) >-- Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >At 11:00 PM 3/22/96 -0500, gewither@mailbox.syr.edu (gewither) wrote: >>You mean the german band Modern Talking with Dieter Bolan right? If so they >>were the worst kitsch band ever!. all the other Bands ar egreat though. >> >>Jerry Withers > Yes, that is indeed the Modern Talking I am referring to, with >Dieter Bolan. There is only one Modern Talking, and they are indeed a band >that has made great strides in crossing the international electronic music >boundaries, as I mentioned in my previous letter. They made an especially >heavy impact in European nations like Germany (their homeland) and Russia, >and then their influence spread to England and the U.S. After Modern >Talking, Dieter went on to form the band Blue System, which continued to >mantain the international appeal and sustenance of his previous band. You >do not have to like all of the bands I put on my suggested listening list, >or even like any of them for that matter. I put the list there so people >with an interest in either the historical, cultural, or popular aspects of >electronic music over the past 15 years or so, would have a guide with which >to broaden their horizons and wet their appetities. You are certainly >entitled to express your opinion freely here, regardless of how poor and >shallow I may find your opinion to be. ;o) Carry on, folks. >Robotically Yours, >Scott M. Barnhill >mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >"I'm the antenna catching vibrations..." You are the first person I have ever met (in the exttended sense of the word) that has ever admitted to have really liked Modern Talking. Granted they had a few songs i liked, but to say that were istrumental in the scene. That's really pushing it. I live (most of the time) in Germany and I was there when they were on top. Mostly a teenie-bopper band. I know of Blue System. BS (no pun intended :) ) never really had the same success. At least we can agree that Kraftwerk RULES! :) P.S. No flame intended :) Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/950HD 030/882/17Mb 50Mhz //// makes A2386 & VGA & 150MB HD gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum 28/24 \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 CD-ROM ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 15:11:15 +0000 Subject: Kraftwerk & LFO Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de Some magazines reported recently that LFO have visited Kraftwerk in Duesseldorf and that they did a jam-session together. From what other magazines write it appears that it wasn't Kraftwerk they were visiting, but Karl Bartos. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 15:11:15 +0000 Subject: Re: Bartos & Elektric Music Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de > Has anything happened between Karl Bartos and Lothar Manteuffel and Ralf > Beck? There's a *rumour* that they broke up mainly because Karl Bartos was unhappy with Lothar Manteuffel's vocal qualities. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 15:23:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com i aways thought that kraftwerk had a Synclavier in at least "Computer World" days. I also notice a Roland MC-8 sequencer in the Pascal Bussy book.....I know they use a ARP Odessey because Florian played one in a live segment on PBS's history of rock and roll last summer......... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 17:03:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Other Electronic Music Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 09:00 AM 3/23/96 -0500, gewither@mailbox.syr.edu (gewither) wrote: >You are the first person I have ever met (in the exttended sense of the word) >that has ever admitted to have really liked Modern Talking. I am glad I can accept that honor. >Granted they had a >few songs i liked, I knew you'd come around to admitting that. ;o) hehe... >but to say that were istrumental in the scene. That's >really pushing it. I live (most of the time) in Germany and I was there when >they were on top. Mostly a teenie-bopper band. I know of Blue System. I certainly did not say that Modern Talking were "instrumental in the scene". What I did say, was that Modern Talking achieved much international acclaim and popularity in their day due to their interesting blending of classic 70s disco and electronic synthesis. I also said that they went on to provide inspiration for some of the more prominent synth-oriented bands of the 80s, a la Pet Shop Boys and Erasure. >BS (no pun intended :) ) funny guy. :) >At least we can agree that Kraftwerk RULES! :) Hear Hear! Indeed we can, no argument there. >P.S. No flame intended :) None taken. ;o) Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Boing Boom Tschak..." ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #504 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #505 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Monday, 25 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 505 Re: Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 00:24:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' Really-From: NDKent@aol.com >>>Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com i aways thought that kraftwerk had a Synclavier in at least "Computer World"<<< "Electric Cafe" is a certainty and "Tour de France" uses it. I hear nothing that sounds like it on "Computer World". I don't think it was it even out then? An additional asumption would be that a Synclavier would have held up the live tour in those days, if they had one then. (Not that you can't tour with one, but only with serious logistical support as Zappa found out). Its interesting that "Computer World" is often mentioned as having a "digital sound", while after close listening to the sounds they are playing, nothing actualy sounds like it is made by digital gear except for the voices. I think it is just the computer theme and reductive style of the music that foreshadows much of 80s music. You might disagree with me. On another subject there is a new art book I took a quick peek at featuring techno album cover art (sorry don't have tha name, something like "Techno Style", but it is fairly large and hard to miss.) It has a Karl Bartos foreward. The printing quality is superb, but I'll reserve judgement on the editorial content and the selection of art. I laughed out loud when I read the English translation of the forward. In it is a 1936 quotation by John Cale (a wee bit young in 1936). The German foreward correctly attributes the quote though. Nicholas Kent in progress Japanese Electronic Music website at: http://id.thing.net/artskool/jem/jem.html ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #505 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #506 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 26 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 506 Re: CARS Re: Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' BBC Radio documentary - "Kraftwerk" capiotal years box set Re: 'Vorsprung durch Teknik' / Synclavier Re: capiotal years box set Re: Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' Re: Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' Sync Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' Re: capiotal years box set ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 11:19:47 -0500 Subject: Re: CARS Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com Yes, you cannot, cannot go wrong with the "Substance" double album. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 13:04:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com The Synclavier came out in the early 80's around the time of Computer World....I don't think that the album has a digital sound at all....but i wondered how many of the little "tinkling" sounds in "Home Computer" were made - none of my analogs must be that good:-)...Also - if you have any clue as to how those tinkling sine wavy sounds on "Home Computer" were done - because sequences of them start, then abruptly stop, then start up again identically....i though that possibly a Syclavier could have sampled them...and Ralf just press a key to start the sequence....???? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 13:27:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: BBC Radio documentary - "Kraftwerk" Really-From: Brendan Heading Greets all, There follows the hallowed Kraftwerk interview, which was broadcast on BBC Radio 1 during December 1995 (I think; around that time anyway). It's not quite an interview; it's mainly a commentator asking various music people about kraftwerk's musical influence, while at the same time there is a lot of input from Kraftwerk themselves (obviously, going by recording quality, interviews from a long time ago from Hutter + Schneider). The interview goes through all of KW's albums and the story behind each one. The only bits I have cut/rephrased are bits telling us what a great influence KW where (we all know that already!). I've split it into a few bits, to keep compatible with dodgy mail servers around the world. Unclear speech is placed in brackets() with what it sounds like, and bits by me are in square brackets[]. Here goes... (Opens up playing The Mix version of The Robots). Commentator: Immaculately hip, fashionable, and one of the most influential groups of modern times. Nonetheless, KW remain a mystery to most modern pop- fans. Andy McCluskey is one of the most senior figures in British electronic pop, having enjoyed many hits with OMD. KW provided an inspirational moment in his youth. Andy: They actually came to play in Liverpool. October '75. I remember going to the empire theatre. While everyone else was on about long hair, flares etc. these 4 guys walked on stage in short hair, suits + ties, playing the most bizarre collection of instruments I'd ever seen - two looked like they were playing tea trays with wired up knitting needles and I just thought - That's what I want to do!!! [Begins playing edited version of Autobahn, 1975.] Commentator : After a number of years dabbling in experimental music in their native town, Dusseldorf, KW first entered the public imagination with their 1975 international hit Autobahn - a mesmeric, or as Deep Purple fans would have it, monotonous, (homage) to motorway driving, using only electronic instruments and using the conventional love-song format of the pop single, they had created something completely new. Ralf Hutter: Yes, we had done about 5 years of touring in Germany, we played everywhere, Universities, Berlin, Hamburg, and every time we went from city to city, it was always on the Autobahn, so in my old grey Volkwagen we had done about 200000 miles, so one day we had the idea, why not record, electrically or synthetically, make an album about what we really do, that is, driving from city to city. So that's how it really came about, the sounds of motors, the [tunes] of motors, the wheels and the landscape, and the picture of the car. Midge Ure [UltraVox]: It was one of the first electronic singles that I had, it's quite old, what was it '74 ? - that's a long time ago to be delving into electronics, and when I heard it first I thought it was fabulous, just the style of the recording and the way it was recorded, and all the rest of it. John Warracker : [a lot of what we know, about how brill Autobahn was, as well as some other nonsense. You wouldn't miss it.] [Radioactivity] Commentator: Music Critic Mark Sinker believes that the groups inscrutibility and anonimity is all part of their game-plan. Sinker: They were focussing on the idea of a group, but unlike the 60's where you had, say, 4 wacky individuals, they were like 4 cogs in a machine, they only looked slightly different, so they all dressed alike and they played up the idea of interchangability, and they were all very similar. Ralf Hutter: Yes, we all have the same size of clothes, so we can all exchange clothes, only I think Karl [presum. Bartos] has bigger shoes [background laughter] Commentator: Most people associate Kraftwerk with the founders, Ralf Hutter and Florian Schneider. Ralf explains how the group came about. Ralf: We had a lose form of musicians playing together in Germany, and at one point somebody recorded something in a studio, but it wasn't our project really [is he referring to KW 1 and KW 2 ? This might explain why they sound so different], so really, Kraftwerk came about in 1970, we formed our KlingKlang studio in Dusseldorf, and we recorded the first KraftWerk album, which we kind of like, produced ourselves, you know, everything we did was like, self produced [funny how Ralf repeats himself like this!! Not a mistake!!] we had an old (drey box machine [I think]) and some tape recorders, and some feedback, and that's really when we started. [Starts playing that song that comes after Radioactivity, forgotten the name!] Nick Fish [apparently, KW's biographer] : Ralf is reponsible for most of the melodies and the lyrical ideas, where Florian is more involved with the actual sculpting of the sound, if you like... The tonal possibilities, getting the early machinery to work and everything else. Commentator: In 1975, the duo, Hutter and Schneider, were joined by session drummers Wolfgang Flur and Karl Bartos. Bartos : Actually, they (called my professor ?!?) I was a session musician, session player, and it turned out very good, so in the end, I became a partner and co-writer. Fish: They decided that, rather than recording in a studio like most rock bands would do, they would essentially build their own, they rented a loft in Dusseldorf, and began aquiring as much equipment as they could so that they could build up these industrial sounds on their own, and very early on, the studio became an important part of the group's existance, they looked at the studio as being almost another member of the group. [Starts playing a version of airwaves, without the lyrics! Cheek!] Flur: [Flur's English isn't great! No offence!!] The Klingklang studio was more like a rehearsal room, with all those effects units,amplifiers, tape recorders, self made speaker cases with the golden horns on top [!] , and Florian's side with his flute and the very first ARP Odyssey synthesizer, and Ralf's place on the other side, with Hammond Organ, and a Farfisa model, and his new MiniMoog. A small children's drumset was standing on one edge. Bartos: We had this idea of making an electronic drum set, and there was none around at that time, so Florian came up with the idea of pulling an organ apart and using the built in drums, you know, these duh-duh-dish, duh duh dish [Bartos makes sound like Autobahn drums - very well, I must say!] built in analogue drums loops. So we pulled it apart, and - we used it. Opinions and criticism, guys! Do ya want more ? (The above is about 20% of the whole feature!!) - ---Brendan Heading (brendan@heading.demon.co.uk) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 14:34:11 -0500 Subject: capiotal years box set Really-From: Nthings@aol.com what is the capiotal yeager boxed set, is it worth buying if i dont have the albums, i only have tapes and need cds ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 20:50:28 +0100 Subject: Re: 'Vorsprung durch Teknik' / Synclavier Really-From: Paulo Mouat > >>>Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com > i aways thought that kraftwerk had a Synclavier in at least "Computer > World"<<< > > "Electric Cafe" is a certainty and "Tour de France" uses it. I hear > nothing that sounds like it on "Computer World". I don't think it was > it even out then? An additional asumption would be that a Synclavier > would have held up the live tour in those days, if they had one then. > (Not that you can't tour with one, but only with serious logistical > support as Zappa found out). I heard or read somewhere that "Electric Cafe" was made with a Fairlight, a curious episode being referred--Florian had disassembled it trying to fit it in a rack, only to find that it didn't work once reassembled. From an interview with Bartos, it seems that the use of the Synclavier is much more recent than "Electric Cafe," since he expresses his disagreement with the option to use the machine as one of the most important motives for leaving Kraftwerk, and he left shortly after "The Mix" was being worked on. If they're using it since the beginning of the 80s, maybe Bartos would have expressed his opinion much sooner and wouldn't have remained some 10 years more. Also, some recent live pictures feature the controller keyboard from the Synclavier, which is instantly recognized by its 160 little round LEDs :-), but it is the keyboard of one of the latter models NED has built before closure. The front has the same looks as the I/II models, the only difference being the number of keys and the casing, which is much deeper than the early models. This controller keyboard is used also in their 9600 Tapeless Studio version, which was the last (?) they ever built, 1992 or so. - -- ********************************* Paulo Mouat, mouat@telepac.pt ********************************* ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 23:03:17 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: capiotal years box set Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 02:34 PM 3/25/96 -0500, you wrote: >Really-From: Nthings@aol.com > > >what is the capiotal yeager boxed set, is it worth buying if i dont have the >albums, i only have tapes and need cds The 'Capitol Years' Boxed Set is a set containing 3 CD re-issues of the following Kraftwerk albums: "Radio-Activity" (1975), "Trans-Europe Express" (1977), and "The Man-Machine" (1978). Theses CDs are the same exact ones that were marketed by Cleopatra individually as well as in the boxed set. If you're looking to just get all the KW albums on CD, these Cleopatra re-issues are fine. There has been much discussion on this list regarding how good the sound quality is on these Cleopatra releases compared to the original Capitol CDs, so perhaps you may wish to take that into consideration, as well as the fact that the Cleopatra releases contain slightly different artwork and sleeve desgins than the originals. Also, you may note that the boxed set was in limited numbers and is not that easy to find nowadays. I personally purchased the three Cleopatra re-issues individually well before the boxed set had been released, so it seemed like a waste for me to shell out another $40 for the same three CDs plus a nice little booklet. The choice is yours. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "We are the robots..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 16:59:57 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' Really-From: Brendan Heading >>>>Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com >i aways thought that kraftwerk had a Synclavier in at least "Computer >World"<<< >Its interesting that "Computer World" is often mentioned as having a "digital >sound", while after close listening to the sounds they are playing, nothing >actualy sounds like it is made by digital gear except for the voices. I think Well, obviously the human voices are analogue, but the computer voices are in fact analogue as well - they're processed using a vocoder, as you may know. This uses bandpass filters and thus is inherently analogue. Sorry for being a smug git. The Synclavier is a sampler - it takes soundbites from places (not sure if it synthesizes or not). So there is no concept of "sounding" like one. It is definitely used in Electric Cafe. Don't know about Tour De France - don't think so. It's used to do all the voices in Boing Boom Tsak, for example. (BBT is the only one I've heard off EC - I haven't got EC yet). >Nicholas Kent >in progress Japanese Electronic Music website at: >http://id.thing.net/artskool/jem/jem.html What, like Tomita and Kitaro ? Cool! (I'm listening to Kosmos right now, b4 I put on TEE). - --- Brendan Heading (brendan@heading.demon.co.uk) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 23:23:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' Really-From: Chris LaRose The voices on the Computer World album-come from various sources. The voices in Numbers are KW's alone and were developed by them with the assistance of several programmers and hardware engineers (See CW credits sheet). It is unique to them and is phoneme based. In addition extensive use is made of a Texas instruments Speak and Spell....a kids learning toy. This is the 'gritty' sounding voices. Some vocoding is used here and there but the majority of Computer World's voicing is of purely synthetic origin. According to Marvin Katz's (KW manager) office in New York, Kraftwerk used a Synclavier for the first time on the Tour de France EP. The strings on that album were from the Synclavier as well as most of the samples. They obtained their own Synclavier and used it extensively on the EC album and planned to tour with it at the time. Synclaviers are primarily samplers but they also allow you to perform additive synthesis. KW used that technology a lot on EC. Just a few notes to clarify.... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 23:51:47 -0500 Subject: Sync Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Ok Ok - so my CW Synclavier theory has been cleared up. I still want to know where they get most of the sounds on CW. My Juno 106 can get sounds that are almost identical to the super-staccato sounds at the end of "It's more fun to compute." Did they primarily use their Roland MC-8 to sequence the album do ya think? If so, wow that must have taken patience. Beautiful :-) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 23:25:42 -0500 Subject: Re: capiotal years box set Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) I personally purchased the three Cleopatra re-issues >individually well before the boxed set had been released, so it seemed like >a waste for me to shell out another $40 for the same three CDs plus a nice >little booklet. The choice is yours. Ahhh, but if you can find it used(like I did) for around $15!!!!! I surely suggest getting it! JoN ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #506 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #507 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 26 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 507 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 26 Mar 96 09:09:46 EST Subject: Jon of The Pleased Wimin' Really-From: Jonathan.Jones@bbc.co.uk (Jonathan Jones) Having Bought "Give me Strength" By John of the pleased Wimin'(Released 25/3/96 Perfecto) I noticed it features a sample from "Tour de France" Heavily throughout the song. It is not using the main hook,Just the rattle type noise --It is very effective. This is not the only song to use this sample as I have heard it before in other songs but am unable to remember which ones. JJ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 10:29:38 +0200 (MDT) Subject: Re: Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' Really-From: Anders Wilhelm > The Synclavier came out in the early 80's around the time of Computer > World....I don't think that the album has a digital sound at all....but i > wondered how many of the little "tinkling" sounds in "Home Computer" were > made - none of my analogs must be that good:-)...Also - if you have any clue > as to how those tinkling sine wavy sounds on "Home Computer" were done - > because sequences of them start, then abruptly stop, then start up again > identically....i though that possibly a Syclavier could have sampled > them...and Ralf just press a key to start the sequence....???? Those sounds you are describing comes from the Speak&Spell-machine. From what I remembers, it is three patterns, you can hear them when you turn the machine on. We used one of those in early trafo concerts (87). /anders - -- *************************************************************************** * Anders Wilhelm * em: dvlawm@cs.umu.se * "I program my Home-computer, * * Umea University * url:http://wwwtdb.cs.* feel myself into the future" * * Sweden * umu.se/~dvlawm/ * -Florian Schneider, 1981 * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 96 10:45:36 GMT Subject: Re: Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' Really-From: mmalcolm crawford Brendan Heading wrote: > Well, obviously the human voices are analogue, but the computer > voices are in fact analogue as well - they're processed using a > vocoder, as you may know. This uses bandpass filters and thus is > inherently analogue. > Umm, I can't think of any reason why, in principle if not indeed in practice, a vocoder should not be made using digital filters... Best wishes, mmalc. posn. research facilitator where institute for language speech and hearing sheffield university west court 2 mappin street sheffield s1 4dt england vox (+44) 114 282 5269 fax (+44) 114 278 0972 email m.crawford@dcs.shef.ac.uk NeXTMail, SunMail, MIME welcome PGP key available on request http://www.dcs.shef.ac.uk/research/ilash/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 13:36:02 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: synclaviers on computerwelt Really-From: David Davis synclaviers are just digital storage devices...they can't generate sounds it's fairly easy to generate the gurgly bleepy squelchy tinkles used by analogue frequency modulation....this means modulating a fairly simple waveform (eg the self oscillation of a filter when resonance is at max) with another of similar frequeny (eg an audio VCO), making subtle adjustments to the settings. some of the best examples of this are on radioland and antenne ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 13:42:10 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: digital versus analogue Really-From: David Davis > > > Umm, I can't think of any reason why, in principle if not indeed in > practice, a vocoder should not be made using digital filters... > > because didital filters sound like shit ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 96 14:50:25 EST Subject: ELEKTRIC MUSIC Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle HI DAVID, Former ANTHROPOMORPHIC/BPM drummer DAN SLATZZ gave me a tape of Elektric Music's Esperanto album the other day. Have you heard this? I think it is awful! Way worse than Electric Cafe or The Mix. The first track 'TV' uses mellotron samples, synclavier voices and the drum sounds from the last 2 KW albums, but all thrown together carelessly to make a kind of 'ultimate' Kraftwerk sound which just ends up sounding like a charicature/KW coverband. And the others sound like somewhere between dreadful Euro-advertmusic and New Order (New Order I like)- nearer the admusic though. It sounds very dated, even for 91. Let's hope Ralph and Florian have heard Autechre! Kraftwerk somehow seems like a very familiar/boring topic to type about... Feline demoes (Ozrics, Subjects) or the 92 piano Animal Daydreams- I hope they haven't been erased...... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 96 17:03:53 EST Subject: Re: ELEKTRIC MUSIC Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle Good grief Kraftwerk subscribers- you weren't supposed to get that last message about Elektric Music- sorry! (Hi David!!?) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 12:11:25 -0500 Subject: Synclaviers Etc. Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Actually, Synclaviers can produce their own sound if you are willing to pay for it. And the tinkling noises on "Home Computer" are not Speak & Spell - that only occurs in the beginning. I am talking about the Tinkling sounds in the rhythmic interludes (three of them) throughout the song....I realize that self modulation from an oscillator obviously produces these sounds - for instance - it sounds like self modulating filter with some sample and hold or something - but the sequences are exactly the same and I don't think that syncing a sequencer up to the LFO of a synthesizer was possible in 1981. Example of what i am talking about - The very last rhythmic interlude in "Home Computer" starts with a sine wave blip sequence and stops, breaking into the scale.....this exact sequence repeats to the end....how did they do it? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 12:17:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Synclaviers Etc. Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Oh wait - i think i figured out how they do it - i guess you actually can sync a sequencer to an LFO via CV gate............anyone? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 12:19:31 +0800 (U) Subject: RE: ELEKTRIC MUSIC Really-From: "Freeman, Lon C." >Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle >Good grief Kraftwerk subscribers- you weren't supposed to get that >last message about Elektric Music- sorry! >(Hi David!!?) I didn't think so. You bad boy. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 13:32:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: ELEKTRIC MUSIC Really-From: "Gerald E. Withers" I personally like ESPERANTO, I think it is cool. Granted it isn't Kraftwerk, but at least is is somtething that is remotely connected to Kraftwerk. I wish it was a Kraftwerk album, at least then we would have a new one to talk about. Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/100HD 030/882/5Mb 50Mhz 401 Euclid Ave //// makes A2386 & VGA 150MB HD Syracuse N.Y. 13210 \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum 28/24 gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 20:08:59 +0200 (MDT) Subject: Re: Synclaviers Etc. Really-From: Anders Wilhelm > > Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com > > > Actually, Synclaviers can produce their own sound if you are willing to pay > for it. > And the tinkling noises on "Home Computer" are not Speak & Spell - that only > occurs in the beginning. I am talking about the Tinkling sounds in the > rhythmic interludes (three of them) throughout the song....I realize that > self modulation from an oscillator obviously produces these sounds - for > instance - it sounds like self modulating filter with some sample and hold or > something - but the sequences are exactly the same and I don't think that > syncing a sequencer up to the LFO of a synthesizer was possible in 1981. > Example of what i am talking about - The very last rhythmic interlude in > "Home Computer" starts with a sine wave blip sequence and stops, breaking > into the scale.....this exact sequence repeats to the end....how did they do > it? > Ok, now I know what sounds you are refering to. My guess is that those originates from the Korg PS3200, and is fed by their Doepfer MAQ 16/3 sequencer.If you listen to the scales they begin with patterns going from C2->F4, F3->D5 and D4->A6. Later in the song the same pattern re-appears, but is transposed and has a differnt gap (eg C2->D5, A2->G5). That kind of effect is easily done by using the MAQ. The sound is then inserted into their effect arrays, which probably consists of Eventide delays reverbs. Please observe that this is merely my own guess, based on my own experiences. /anders - -- *************************************************************************** * Anders Wilhelm * em: dvlawm@cs.umu.se * "I program my Home-computer, * * Umea University * url:http://wwwtdb.cs.* feel myself into the future" * * Sweden * umu.se/~dvlawm/ * -Florian Schneider, 1981 * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 15:25:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Synclaviers Etc. Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Ok - but it would be impossible to use the MAQ sequencer in 1981 - they didn't have one - and MIDI wasn't even around. I can see how this may work on The Mix, but i don't know if the MAQwas out then either.........I know they had a Roland MC-8 in '81. Is all this possible on that?? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 21:43:48 +0200 (MDT) Subject: Re: Synclaviers Etc. Really-From: Anders Wilhelm > > Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com > > > Ok - but it would be impossible to use the MAQ sequencer in 1981 - they > didn't have one - and MIDI wasn't even around. I can see how this may work > on The Mix, but i don't know if the MAQwas out then either.........I know > they had a Roland MC-8 in '81. Is all this possible on that?? > They did have an analogue sequencer made by Doepfer, I am not sure if it is the MAQ. /anders - -- *************************************************************************** * Anders Wilhelm * em: dvlawm@cs.umu.se * "I program my Home-computer, * * Umea University * url:http://wwwtdb.cs.* feel myself into the future" * * Sweden * umu.se/~dvlawm/ * -Florian Schneider, 1981 * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 21:43:48 +0200 (MDT) Subject: Re: Synclaviers Etc. Really-From: Anders Wilhelm > > Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com > > > Ok - but it would be impossible to use the MAQ sequencer in 1981 - they > didn't have one - and MIDI wasn't even around. I can see how this may work > on The Mix, but i don't know if the MAQwas out then either.........I know > they had a Roland MC-8 in '81. Is all this possible on that?? > They did have an analogue sequencer made by Doepfer, I am not sure if it is the MAQ. /anders - -- *************************************************************************** * Anders Wilhelm * em: dvlawm@cs.umu.se * "I program my Home-computer, * * Umea University * url:http://wwwtdb.cs.* feel myself into the future" * * Sweden * umu.se/~dvlawm/ * -Florian Schneider, 1981 * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 16:40:04 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Aktivitaet 6 - 'Vorspring durch Teknik' Really-From: Brendan Heading >Brendan Heading wrote: >> Well, obviously the human voices are analogue, but the computer >> voices are in fact analogue as well - they're processed using a >> vocoder, as you may know. This uses bandpass filters and thus is >> inherently analogue. >> >Umm, I can't think of any reason why, in principle if not indeed in >practice, a vocoder should not be made using digital filters... True. I forgot about that !!! |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |***** Amiga makes your fantasies become reality!! ******| ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 00:35:46 +0100 Subject: 'Vorsprung durch Technik' / Synclavier / Filters Really-From: Paulo Mouat > Synclaviers are primarily samplers but they also allow you to perform > additive synthesis. Don't forget about FM synthesis. In fact, you can't say that the Synclavier is primarily a sampler. The original designs were only for a machine that would be capable of additive synthesis with integration with computer software. Sampling capabilities came much later. >> Umm, I can't think of any reason why, in principle if not indeed in >> practice, a vocoder should not be made using digital filters... > because digital filters sound like shit What digital filters? Of course, quality varies among available models, but if you want a... "serious" approach, you have some options that you could consider. You have a number of examples of pure digital compositions with heavy filtering in recordings such as those from Wergo, "Music with computers." And there is public domain software with these capabilities, some of which was used in the aforementioned recordings--proving the extraordinary quality of the software. You can say that analogue is best if we are considering ordinary synthesizers, whose digital technology is not as proficient as their analogue counterparts. But if you turn to computer music, which curiously is rarely made with synthesizers, you have much more powerful tools than any existing analogue machines could provide. Of course, you cease to be able to play with knobs and sliders, but you have other types of control, much more exact and perfected. Just some thoughts. - -- ********************************* Paulo Mouat, mouat@telepac.pt ********************************* ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 19:04:20 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Vorsprung durch Technik' / Synclavier / Filters Really-From: stdwle@shsu.edu (W. L. Ellett) >Really-From: Paulo Mouat > > >> Synclaviers are primarily samplers but they also allow you to perform >> additive synthesis. > >Don't forget about FM synthesis. > In fact, you can't say that the Synclavier is primarily a sampler. >The original designs were only for a machine that would be capable of >additive synthesis with integration with computer software. Sampling >capabilities came much later. > >>> Umm, I can't think of any reason why, in principle if not indeed in >>> practice, a vocoder should not be made using digital filters... > >> because digital filters sound like shit > >What digital filters? Of course, quality varies among available models, >but if you want a... "serious" approach, you have some options that you >could consider. You have a number of examples of pure digital >compositions with heavy filtering in recordings such as those from >Wergo, "Music with computers." And there is public domain software >with these capabilities, some of which was used in the aforementioned >recordings--proving the extraordinary quality of the software. > You can say that analogue is best if we are considering ordinary >synthesizers, whose digital technology is not as proficient as their >analogue counterparts. But if you turn to computer music, which >curiously is rarely made with synthesizers, you have much more powerful >tools than any existing analogue machines could provide. Of course, >you cease to be able to play with knobs and sliders, but you have other >types of control, much more exact and perfected. > >Just some thoughts. > >-- >********************************* > Paulo Mouat, mouat@telepac.pt >********************************* Digital Filters are on the whole BETTER than analogue filters. Its just that the controlling agents (sliders and so forth) were not especially keen when they were first used to control digital synths. I think digital synthesizers have ALOT more going for them than analogue. Of course there are some things you can do with an ARP that you could never do with a newer digital synth. By the way, digital keyboards are still synthesizers . . . W. L. Ellett W.L.Ellett Email:stdwle@shsu.edu ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #507 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #508 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 27 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 508 Tone Float ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 04:19:33 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Tone Float Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu Fellow Kraftwerkians, Would any of you KW fans who have a copy of Organisation's 'Tone Float' album be willing to dub a copy onto a cassette for me if I mailed you one? You may send your replies to me privately in email so as to not take up space on the mailing list. Also, do any of you know where I might be able to find a bootleg copy of this album on CD? Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Interpol and Deutsche Bank...FBI and Scotland Yard..." ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #508 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #509 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 27 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 509 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 10:07:50 +0200 (MDT) Subject: Home Computer bassline? Really-From: Anders Wilhelm As one of the current issues is sounds on Home computer, I realised that I have been wondering about how the bass sound on Home computer was made. My guess is that it is made up from at least two sounds, one being a dry bass from one of their Mini Moogs, together with a ring-modulated bass. If anyone else has been trying to duplicate that sound, please give information. I'm the antenna/anders - -- *************************************************************************** * Anders Wilhelm * em: dvlawm@cs.umu.se * "I program my Home-computer, * * Umea University * url:http://wwwtdb.cs.* feel myself into the future" * * Sweden * umu.se/~dvlawm/ * -Florian Schneider, 1981 * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 10:41:56 +0000 (GMT) Subject: never underestimate analogue Really-From: David Davis > syncing a sequencer up to the LFO of a synthesizer was possible in 1981. > Example of what i am talking about - The very last rhythmic interlude in > "Home Computer" starts with a sine wave blip sequence and stops, breaking > into the scale.....this exact sequence repeats to the end....how did they do > it? > a decent modular system (eg Klingklang studios!) will easily allow you to route CV and gate to sync whatever sequencers ,LFOs, etc ,etc, you desire and don,t forget tape loops!! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 13:32:35 +0100 Subject: Re: Synclaviers Etc. Really-From: majortom@muc.de (((mw))) >Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com > >Actually, Synclaviers can produce their own sound if you are willing to pay >for it. Very true. But I don't think there is a Synclavier on Computerwelt, because as far as I know it wasn't around before 81. I believe it appeared around this date (maybe 79) but in a very rudimentary form. Also it is not to be seen on their stage setup of this time. >rhythmic interludes (three of them) throughout the song....I realize that >self modulation from an oscillator obviously produces these sounds - for >instance - it sounds like self modulating filter with some sample and hold or >something - but the sequences are exactly the same and I don't think that >syncing a sequencer up to the LFO of a synthesizer was possible in 1981. This has been possible ever since 1965 (Moog Modular etc.). Basically there has been nothing new in the way of subtractive synthesis since then... I think your right in that the sound you're referring to was made with a high speed S&H or an analogue sequencer (which is basically the same thing). Lots of modern day Midi people would be surprised of what could be done with analogue Synthesizers and Sequencers in the old days. (surprised because they would find no way at all to reproduce most of this with todays equipment). And there are quite some electronic musicians today who are turning their back on Midi for very good reasons. Is it only me who thinks that KW reached their peak with Computerwelt and things didn't get any better when they started using Midi and digital devices like the DX-7 or Synclavier? Like on Electric Cafe, while I can't say I don't like it, somehow this is the turning point where KW lost their leadership role in electronic music. For instance on Sex Object there is this slap bass sound which probably comes from a DX-7. I think KW using this is like going "Oh look we've got a new toy" and has not much to do with the unique electronic avantgarde sounds we heard from them before. As for digital keyboards still being synthesizers I think you have to differ how the basic sonic material is generated. The very most use samples and provide facilities to modify them. That means one of the most important components of sound synthesis comes out of a can somebody else filled. The main difference between analogue and digital synthesis is that analogue has an unpreadictable unreproducable element to it which varys from machine to machine, from day to day and even room temperature and atmosperic pressure have an influence. This ads a "chaotic" organic element to the output which just can't be reproduced by digital DSP even if you use as many random generators as you wish. This is something which is in between the lines and there is not much use in argueing about it because it is something you have to experience - you won't get it if someone explains (because words are inadequate to describe these phenomena). It's like if you want to describe why a Stradivari sounds better than a modern day violin. It is my opinion that a certain part of the typical atmosphere of KW's records was lost when they turned to the new technologys. It also goes to show that audio quality of a recording has nothing at all to do with how the material is recieved by the listener. Furthermore I think additional signs of decline in terms of KW's old reputation is shown by the fact that KW lower themselfes into doing promotion for something like the Doepfer A-100 modular synthesizer. KW must have seen enough synthesizers to realize that the Doepfer is a cut down caricature of what is possible with this technology just to fit in with a trend. I think Florian Schneider's vocoded poem about the Doepfer is downright embarrassing, in terms of the words and the sound. Florian Schneider has a Sennheiser + EMS Vocoder so he really knows what a good Vocoder sounds like but his voice through the Doepfer is just a plain joke. Having said this I should ad that for me KW is still the greatest ensemble in music history. And history will always remain. ________ michael __________________________________________________ http://www.muc.de/~majortom/analogue/amusic.htm ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 09:28:49 -0500 Subject: analog v digital Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com i wasn't the one who said digitals are 'still synthesizers.' i agree that analog offers a tremendous sound element over digital. i have a few midi synthesizers--jd-800 and yamaha sy-85 - and they pale in comparison to my pro-one and yamaha cs-5 and juno-106 in the ability to make interesting sounds.....i am one of those people who is turning their head to midi in search of older sounds - that's why i need a modular ;-0 p.s. my caps are absolutely not working and it is making me mad ;-o ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 16:16:29 +0100 Subject: Re: BBC Radio documentary - "Kraftwerk" Really-From: majortom@muc.de (((mw))) >Really-From: Brendan Heading >Opinions and criticism, guys! Do ya want more ? (The above is about 20% of the >whole feature!!) I say, that is brilliant material! This is the first time that I heard some of the facts like first hand comments about how KW made their percussion back then. I've always admired the drums on tracks like Kling Klang and Tanzmusik but until now only heard rumours and theorys on how it was done. Also the description of the Kling Klang studio sounds very much like the setup pictured on the back of Ralf & Florian. This documentary certainly is more authentic than Bussy's book. Thanks for typing that in and I'd love to read the rest too. ________ michael __________________________________________________ http://www.muc.de/~majortom/analogue/amusic.htm ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 10:55:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: help Really-From: nfn05970@naples.net (Jeff Pogan) can anyone help me to stop getting this list? I did unsubscribe thing with majordomo and got a succeeded reply but am still getting the mailing. I like the list ,but need to be able to turn it on/off as necessay. thanks, jeff pogan ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 14:04:17 -0300 Subject: RE: BBC Radio documentary - "Kraftwerk" Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) >Opinions and criticism, guys! Do ya want more ? (The above is about 20% of the >whole feature!!) >This documentary certainly is more authentic than Bussy's book. Thanks >for typing that in and I'd love to read the rest too. I'm sure that ALL OF US in the list also will like it!!! Maybe there's some others guys with radio or TV interviews to transcribe here for eveyone??? I heard something???? Hummmm???? =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 14:03:15 -0500 Subject: pbs Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com damn - my caps still aren't working...... so i guess no one saw the pbs thing in the summer with a bit of kraftwerk on it.... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 20:40:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: pbs Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 02:03 PM 3/27/96 -0500, ManMachn2@aol.com wrote: >damn - my caps still aren't working...... >so i guess no one saw the pbs thing in the summer with a bit of kraftwerk on >it.... I saw it. As a matter of fact, I was watching it back just about 4 nights ago. I must say, I would have preferred a larger segment on Kraftwerk since I feel that their presence in the world of music is a bit more prominent than what was pictured on the pbs special, but at least they mentioned Kraftwerk and gave them some of the due they deserve, unlike a similar program which ran on the UPN network (if I am not mistaken) roughly around the same time, which made absolutely no mention of KW at all. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Electronic music - sounds from Radioland." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 21:48:38 +0100 Subject: Filters / Digital x Analogue Really-From: Paulo Mouat > Digital Filters are on the whole BETTER than analogue filters. My opinion too. Reliable, precise. > I think digital synthesizers have ALOT more going for them than > analogue. You can't compare both this way. Analogue is more "cooperative" in the sense that you can abuse it--you can explore some design glitches present in some of the most famous machines and use them to create some particular and unmistakable sound. If you try it with digital, it either sounds good or not--digital distortion and aliasing is too bad. > Of course there are some things you can do with an ARP that > you could never do with a newer digital synth. Oh yes... If only the manufacturers would design something pure digital with the same spirit of older analogues, with total customizable control and routing... Especially not taking the easy path of using inappropriate or cheap hardware, as is the case of MIDI, which is a very good standard but is not taken to the full by the current hardware implementations. > By the way, digital keyboards are still synthesizers . . . Yes, I agree. If it synthesizes, it is a synthesizer. But if you are referring to what I said about computer music ("which is rarely made with synthesizers"), you misunderstood me. Computer music in general is made with... computers! Not synthesizers. And I'm not talking about sequencing, I'm talking about computers building the entire piece of music, from sound creation to organization, mixing, fx, etc. As an example, there is an extraordinary piece by Jonathan Harvey, "Mortuos Plango, Vivos Voco" which uses as base material the sound of the tenor bell of the Cathedral of Winchester and the voice of his own son, reciting the inscriptions of the bell. What he does with this is much more interesting: He analyzed the spectral components of the two samples and obtained from this a series of weighted and ordered quantities--the partials--from which he structured the entire piece. You have here the microstructure of sound defining the macrostructure of the piece! There are a number of other interesting aspects, such as sound projection, morphing between the two timbres, partial reconstruction of the timbres, a multitude of sound processing that makes the piece one the most appreciated in the electronic and computer music circles. I can provide you with an extract via e-mail if you're curious about it. Best! - -- ********************************* Paulo Mouat, mouat@telepac.pt ********************************* ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 21:52:31 +0100 Subject: Synclavier Really-From: Paulo Mouat According to my sources, the Synclavier was actually in use as early as 1976, and from then on was a big success because of the music-production orientation taken in the design of the machine--an innovation then. - -- ********************************* Paulo Mouat, mouat@telepac.pt ********************************* ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 20:00:36 -0500 Subject: Re: analog v digital Really-From: SINBYTE@aol.com In a message dated 96-03-27 09:30:43 EST, you write: >- know where i can get juno type sounds cheap? i love the anolog synth but i want to sequence the filters, you know, assign to a channel and play with them. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 02:02:25 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Electric Cafe & The Mix Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu Fellow Kraftwerkians, Greetings all. I do believe that I've touched on this issue once before on this list, but since it has resurfaced, I decided to put in my two cents and cast my ballot of support for 'Electric Cafe' and 'The Mix'. I happen to be a big fan of both of those albums, and I feel that they perfectly fit into the evolving development scheme of KW's music. This scheme can be traced from the experimental & avant-garde qualities of 'KW', 'KW2', and 'R&F' all the way up through the structured perfection of 'EC' and 'The Mix'. In fact, you will notice that the music from KW's middle period (1975-81) moves more in the direction of achieving definite structure, yet is not perfect as it still contains slight glitches in sequencing ("Europe Endless", "Trans-Europe Express") as well as wrong notes being played (7" edit of "Computer Love"). Therefore, since the technology became available, it seems only proper and fitting that KW's more recent period (1986-1991) should contain a more digitally-made, structured, sound, free of error and glitch. This is precisely what I feel KW have accomplished with 'EC' and 'The Mix'. While I do speak rather highly of 'Electric Cafe' and 'The Mix', I do not mean to give off the impression that these albums in any way surpass the others in terms of quality of music. All I am suggesting is that they are different and they are following in a logical succession. On a different note altogether, someone made a reference to the 'slap bass' sound patch that KW uses on the song "Sex Object" from the 'Electric Cafe' album. I just wanted to add that while this sound may be a much more commonplace and rock-oriented sound than anything KW has used in the past, it sure does work well within the confines of "Sex Object" - and also - that same exact slap bass sound patch is also used in the immortal classic "Tour de France". "TdF" just wouldn't be the same without it!! Perhaps we can say that just as Florian's infamous electronic flute aided in hallmarking KW's early period (encompassing 'KW', 'KW2', 'R&F', and even 'Autobahn'), maybe the slap bass sound aided in hallmarking KW's "Technopop Period". :o) Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Synthetic electronic sounds..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 22:01:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Synclaviers Etc. Really-From: ChipLamb@aol.com > Is it only me who thinks that KW reached their peak with >Computerwelt and things didn't get any better when they started using >Midi and digital devices like the DX-7 or Synclavier? Computerwelt was the best. Let's hope the new album (and here I probably jinx it) will return to that height which they left upon releasing Elektrik Cafe over Tour de France. Cheers- Wm. "Chip" Lamb "One, two..." Forwarded message: From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Sender: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Date: 96-03-27 07:28:36 EST that Really-From: majortom@muc.de (((mw))) >Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com > >Actually, Synclaviers can produce their own sound if you are willing to pay >for it. Very true. But I don't think there is a Synclavier on Computerwelt, because as far as I know it wasn't around before 81. I believe it appeared around this date (maybe 79) but in a very rudimentary form. Also it is not to be seen on their stage setup of this time. >rhythmic interludes (three of them) throughout the song....I realize that >self modulation from an oscillator obviously produces these sounds - for >instance - it sounds like self modulating filter with some sample and hold or >something - but the sequences are exactly the same and I don't think that >syncing a sequencer up to the LFO of a synthesizer was possible in 1981. This has been possible ever since 1965 (Moog Modular etc.). Basically there has been nothing new in the way of subtractive synthesis since then... I think your right in that the sound you're referring to was made with a high speed S&H or an analogue sequencer (which is basically the same thing). Lots of modern day Midi people would be surprised of what could be done with analogue Synthesizers and Sequencers in the old days. (surprised because they would find no way at all to reproduce most of this with todays equipment). And there are quite some electronic musicians today who are turning their back on Midi for very good reasons. Is it only me who thinks that KW reached their peak with Computerwelt and things didn't get any better when they started using Midi and digital devices like the DX-7 or Synclavier? Like on Electric Cafe, while I can't say I don't like it, somehow this is the turning point where KW lost their leadership role in electronic music. For instance on Sex Object there is this slap bass sound which probably comes from a DX-7. I think KW using this is like going "Oh look we've got a new toy" and has not much to do with the unique electronic avantgarde sounds we heard from them before. As for digital keyboards still being synthesizers I think you have to differ how the basic sonic material is generated. The very most use samples and provide facilities to modify them. That means one of the most important components of sound synthesis comes out of a can somebody else filled. The main difference between analogue and digital synthesis is that analogue has an unpreadictable unreproducable element to it which varys from machine to machine, from day to day and even room temperature and atmosperic pressure have an influence. This ads a "chaotic" organic element to the output which just can't be reproduced by digital DSP even if you use as many random generators as you wish. This is something which is in between the lines and there is not much use in argueing about it because it is something you have to experience - you won't get it if someone explains (because words are inadequate to describe these phenomena). It's like if you want to describe why a Stradivari sounds better than a modern day violin. It is my opinion that a certain part of the typical atmosphere of KW's records was lost when they turned to the new technologys. It also goes to show that audio quality of a recording has nothing at all to do with how the material is recieved by the listener. Furthermore I think additional signs of decline in terms of KW's old reputation is shown by the fact that KW lower themselfes into doing promotion for something like the Doepfer A-100 modular synthesizer. KW must have seen enough synthesizers to realize that the Doepfer is a cut down caricature of what is possible with this technology just to fit in with a trend. I think Florian Schneider's vocoded poem about the Doepfer is downright embarrassing, in terms of the words and the sound. Florian Schneider has a Sennheiser + EMS Vocoder so he really knows what a good Vocoder sounds like but his voice through the Doepfer is just a plain joke. Having said this I should ad that for me KW is still the greatest ensemble in music history. And history will always remain. ________ michael __________________________________________________ http://www.muc.de/~majortom/analogue/amusic.htm ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 22:01:38 -0500 Subject: Re: pbs Really-From: ChipLamb@aol.com Will those who know of the upcoming special being rebroadcast please leave notice on the board beforehand? I would like to see it, not to mention the others here who like me have not already. Chip ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #509 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #510 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 28 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 510 Re: Filters / Digital x Analogue ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 08:24:30 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Filters / Digital x Analogue Really-From: Anders Holmberg On Wed, 27 Mar 1996, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: [ --- ] > > Of course there are some things you can do with an ARP that > > you could never do with a newer digital synth. > > Oh yes... If only the manufacturers would design something pure digital > with the same spirit of older analogues, with total customizable control > and routing... Especially not taking the easy path of using > inappropriate or cheap hardware, as is the case of MIDI, which is a very > good standard but is not taken to the full by the current hardware > implementations. > You just might want to take a look at the following W3-locations: http://www.websys.com/drums/ddrum/products.html http://www.clavia.se/ This, i think, is the answer to your plea... /Anders - -- Anders Holmberg Dept. of Scientific Computing andersh@tdb.uu.se Box 120 Phone: +46 18 182978 S-751 04 Uppsala Fax: +46 18 523049 SWEDEN ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #510 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #511 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 28 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 511 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 11:34:32 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: 'Vorsprung durch Technik' / Synclavier / Filters Really-From: David Davis i really find it laughable that people on this list are expounding on the virtues of digital sound over analogue! some of you out there obviously need your ears tested... the fact is that MIDI is a primitive compromise system, not even as good as it's early 1980s contempories ,like Roland's DCB, or the computer interface on the Rhodes Chroma.... sliders and knobs aren't really an issue...they could easily be built into a digital system...manufacturers are just cost cutting. some of the problems with 60s and 70s ICs were long ago solved...eg,by upgrading to modern op-amps,most old analogue synths tuning stability and general performance can be drastically improved. however manufacyurers simply aren't interested in producing instruments using these technologies it seems, for reasons which are 100% economic and zero % aesthetic ultimately, the random subtlety and superior resolution and bandwidth on a well designed analogue system beats digital hands down any time next.. yours analoguely david davis ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 10:28:24 -0500 Subject: KW and DX7? Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Kraftwerk used a DX-7? Yikes. For what - like where can I here an example of this? Electric cafe i am guessing. DX-7 isn't a bad instrument but programmers have to be creative to get anything really nifty out of it - the presets and usuall stuff is very bland. innovation...Electric Cafe sounds too much like something I could do in my basement (minus Synclavier of course!!) - but home electronic music is also an innovation that Kraftwerk is known for too...... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 10:38:57 -0500 Subject: Trans Europe Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Ok Ok - I have the Cleopatra CD of TEE and I have a question: In "Europe Endless," - is the lyric "Elegence and thick curtains" like the liner note says or is it "Elegence and decadence" like David Datta's internet lyric sheet says? Hmm.....Plus, does anyone know the english translation of the extra words that are in Computerwelt as opposed to Computer World? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 18:40:52 GMT Subject: New Order Really-From: "J.A.Dearnley1" Two questions I thought some of you might be able to answer - Did New Order pay any royalties for their track Kw1 (or Your Silent Face), which owed much to a Kraftwerk track (the name eludes me!) on Trans Europe Express? The New Order track appeared on their seminal 'Power Corruption and Lies' album in 1983. How much money did Kraftwerk get from Arthur Baker from his (unauthorised) version of Trans-Europe-Express in 1982 (ish)? Cheers, James - -- +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + James Dearnley. DILS. Loughborough University. LE11 3TU.+ + Tel. 01509 223079. Fax. 01509 223053 + + ** OXFORD UNITED FC *** + + http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/oufc1/ + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 14:06:58 -0500 Subject: ANALOG! Really-From: Nthings@aol.com analog rules all digital sucks ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 21:03:25 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: New Order Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 06:40 PM 3/28/96 +0000, "J.A.Dearnley1" wrote: >Did New Order pay any royalties for their track Kw1 (or Your Silent Face), >which owed much to a Kraftwerk track (the name eludes me!) on Trans Europe >Express? The New Order track appeared on their seminal 'Power Corruption and >Lies' album in 1983. I would imagine that Kraftwerk did *not* receive any royalties off of New Order's song entitled "Your Silent Face", since the song did not contain any lyrics or music that were written by KW. "Your Silent Face" is entirely and exclusively the work of New Order. The style of the song is certainly patterned after and influenced heavily by Kraftwerk's "Europe Endless", but there are no legal grounds for paying KW royalties. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "We're functioning automatic..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:58:09 +0200 Subject: Re: ANALOG! Really-From: Paulo Mouat > analog rules all digital sucks No comment. - -- ********************************* Paulo Mouat, mouat@telepac.pt ********************************* ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:58:01 +0200 Subject: Re: 'Vorsprung durch Technik' / Synclavier / Filters Really-From: Paulo Mouat > i really find it laughable that people on this list are expounding on > the virtues of digital sound over analogue! Yes, I consider digital better than analogue on some aspects, especially regarding on what you want to do--the comparison was never made on sound properly, rather on possibilities and precision. On one side you may have a warm sound, on the other a cold, clinical sound. And the "clinical" is often more important than warmth. Note that I didn't say that digital sound is better than analogue sound--it depends on what you want to do. > some of you out there obviously need your ears tested... My ears have been tested already, thank you. Perhaps you should hear some good digital before passing judgment. And that does not include PCM-synthesizers. > the fact is that MIDI is a primitive compromise system, not even as > good as it's early 1980s contempories ,like Roland's DCB, or the > computer interface on the Rhodes Chroma.... Opinions diverge about this, and my personal one is that the problem is with the hardware that processes MIDI, often of poor capabilities. You should try Opcode's Max with a good Mac to see what MIDI can do. > sliders and knobs aren't really an issue...they could easily be built > into a digital system...manufacturers are just cost cutting. Beside the point. I was referring that one of the interesting aspects of analogue are sliders and knobs. With computer music, you don't need them... in fact they prove too limiting, although useful. > ultimately, the random subtlety and superior resolution and bandwidth > on a well designed analogue system beats digital hands down any time > next.. If you compare a well designed analogue system, you should compare it to a well designed digital system. Or else everyone at IRCAM or MIT would be making a huge mistake with excellent facilities for sound research, composition and creation. - -- ********************************* Paulo Mouat, mouat@telepac.pt ********************************* ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 28 Mar 96 17:45:35 EST Subject: Aktivitaet 7 - 'Bits' (Part 1) Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@compuserve.com> 'Bits' (Part 1) (Aktivitaet 7, September 1995) Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 'KOHOUTEK' - by Ian Calder Ever wondered what 'Kohoutek' was, as in the bands first single 'Kohoutek-Kometenmelodie'? Kohoutek was in fact the name given to a much-hyped comet that passed by the earth in 1973/74, named after its discoverer, Dr Lobus Kohoutek, a Czechoslovakian astronomer working from Hamburg Observatory, who discovered two such comets within a space of ten days in the first half of 1973. Before the comet's appearance it had been widely predicted that it would be the 'comet of the century' and put on a more dazzling nightly display than that provided by Halley's comet in 1910, perhaps even greater than the most spectacular example, from a century earlier, the great comet of 1811. Presumably, Kraftwerk must have felt that a song to mark this event was in order, hence the single. On this single, the versions are the reverse of what we are more accustomed to on the 'Autobahn' LP; that is to say the 'fast' version is part one, the slower version part two. It works better on the 'Autobahn' LP, where we can easily imagine that part one's slow, minimal style reflects the comet's long period away from the solar system, a dim ball of rock and ice, drifting through the dark, cold depths of space. Part two sees it radiate into life, as it enters the solar system and is heated by the suns rays, producing the coma, its brilliant tail that makes the comet visible from earth. So why is there no reference to 'Kohoutek' on the versions from the 'Autobahn' LP you may ask? Well, going back a bit, I mentioned that there was anticipation that the comet would be a spectacular one. In actual fact, the comet was a celebrated flop; it did not ignite into life anywhere near what was predicted, no doubt why it has passed into the depths of history as well as back into the depths of space. But the comet is due to reappear - in 10 million years or so! You may well ask what will appear first - the comet or the new Kraftwerk LP ?! A newly discovered comet, Hale-Bopp, is setting records even now, it being the most distant comet ever found, and by the time it appears nearer to the sun in 1997, may even better 1811's great comet. If no new LP, maybe a single then?!! - - END - ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 28 Mar 96 17:45:23 EST Subject: Aktivitaet 7 - 'Forum' Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@compuserve.com> 'Forum' - by B. Cassidy (Aktivitaet 7, September 1995) Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 'Forum' - by B. Cassidy (Aktivitaet 7, September 1995) I hate Kraftwerk's music. O.K., how many of you obsessives out there are in rage at this comment. Come on, own up all you out there who would support what Kraftwerk stand for wind, rain or shine? Of course, I don't actually dislike Kraftwerk's music, to be truthful I would confess to be being literally addicted to it. Yes, Kraftwerk's music is addictive. At first you like it, you find it interesting, it's different, bizarre even! Then it's stylish, it becomes fashionable to you, despite what others say, you find yourself being continuously drawn towards it. What is it about this music that we like so much? Most of it's catchy, that's for sure. Before too long you find yourself humming and whistling 'Pocket Calculator', 'The Model', 'The Telephone Call' and 'Computer Love' but to name a few. Before long your starting to hear the subtleties and appreciate the hidden depth embodied in each track. From now on your hooked! Ralf Huetter once said in an interview that all people like order and repetition. He probably wasn't far wrong. In order, in predictability, we find comfort. We can foresee what is going to happen next, so our brains don't have to work so hard in trying to predict what might happen. The music of Kraftwerk is most definitely repetitive, so there is one pointer to the appeal. Some tracks take the repetitive aspect to extremes, not least on the Computer World album. 'Numbers' is a track stripped so barely that the only thing that could undermine its minimalism is silence! However, this minimalism isn't quite as regimented as first appears. The mass of subtlety is another appeal of Kraftwerk's musical efforts. It's not just in the blatant electronic sounds that each track brings, it's in the percussion, the bass and the melody. Percussion changes frequently, if not in beats per second/bar then in pitch or duration, the same also being true of bass and melody. Melody in particular has a tendency to develop slightly as a track progresses, a sort of build-up or conclusion to indicate the nearing of the end of the track. Kraftwerk's music therefore appears at first to be simple, much more so than most other musicians works. With continued listening however it is evident that less has turned out to be more. The next matter in hand is the business of lyrics in Kraftwerk's music. There is no doubting that they accompany the music perfectly, and I don't just say that because they are often synthesized. Even when Ralf, and sometimes other Kraftwerk members, treats us to their monotonous dronings the marriage between verse and music is, well, interesting to say the least. Sometimes a story is told, as in 'Showroom Dummies', but more often than not it is partial abstraction, even fantasy. Is, perhaps, the reason for the inclusion of lyrics anything to do with the fact that music with words is more popular? Is it to add variety to the music? Maybe the lyrics are present to underline the understatement of the music? Think about it yourself - would Kraftwerk's music stand up as well without the inclusion of lyrics? Are Kraftwerk being commercial? As one last thought for the moment, don't all you fans who are eager to see box sets and such like think that the digital remastering treatment of Kraftwerk's back catalogue would be a mistake? I for one think that such tampering would have an enormous effect on the subtle qualities of each album. This is especially true of the fact that most Kraftwerk albums implement heavy use of analogue technology, which has an inverse effect when 'digitalised'. Then again, perhaps I'm being picky and that in fact most of you who like Kraftwerk's music don't notice so much all the various subtleties? - - END - ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 28 Mar 96 19:15:34 EST Subject: Re; Synclaviers etc. Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@compuserve.com> It's an interesting debate developing here, on KW's gear. I thought I'd add my own tuppenceworth in, though I'm not up too much on the ins and outs of the gear too much; the 'Tour De France'/'Electric Cafe' era is intriguing in that there are a few discrepancies present that previously would never have been expected from Kraftwerk. There are the obvious samples, such as the slap bass ('TDF', 'Sex Object'), orchestral strings ('Sex Object') and harp strums ('TDF'); all recreations of non-keyboard (and specifically non-synthetic keyboard) sounds; defintely in contrast to Kraftwerk's almost exclusively synthetic methods from 'Radio-Activity' through 'Computer World' (though string samples appear to be present on 'Radio-Activity', 'Trans-Europe Express' courtesy of those great, eerie Mellotron sounds?). The thing that is puzzling is that KW reverted back to the 'real' world in using samples of 'real' instruments. Even more puzzling is that in addition there are sounds present on 'Electric Cafe' that may well be factory presets! (I can't give hard details on this, I was told this a few years back - from someone who puts together 'sample' CD's of bands - you see them advertised in magazines such as 'Future Music' etc. - he had asked if I could supply an address to contact KW in order that he obtain permission for a CD of such KW samples - I wasn't able to help, but we got chatting on their sounds and stuff), that there are a few of the sounds on 'EC' that are just straight factory presets (I forget now which keyboard(s) were mentioned) that he had easily spotted. Now, for a band so renowned for creating their own gear/sounds to use factory presets is a rather bizarre volte face, no? Particularly as 'Electric Cafe' was so long in the making. There is an article from 1981where Ralf describes much of the equipment used on the 1981 tour, there is definitely no mention of either a Fairlight or Synclavier, it was much more down to earth synths that were used (Prophet V's, Mini-Moog etc.) > Really-From: majortom@muc.de (((mw))) > > For instance on Sex Object there is this slap bass sound which > probably comes from a DX-7. I think KW using this is like going "Oh > look we've got a new toy" and has not much to do with the unique > electronic avantgarde sounds we heard from them before. Similarly, 'Boing Boom Tschak' on 'Electric Cafe' does bear out the above highlighted comment along the lines of KW let loose on a new toy - I mean this specifically in the context of the 'stuttering' effects of 'BBT', which were already becoming something of an annoyance by the time of Electric Cafe's release and needlessly gimmicky; bear in mind that Paul Hardcastle's '19' (you know, n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-nineteen !) had been a big hit over a year and a half *before* Electric Cafe's release, so such techniques were well worn by then. > Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu > > In fact, you will notice that the music from KW's middle > period (1975-81) moves more in the direction of achieving definite > structure, yet is not perfect as it still contains slight glitches in > sequencing ("Europe Endless", "Trans-Europe Express") as well as wrong notes > being played (7" edit of "Computer Love"). Therefore, since the > technology became available, it seems only proper and fitting that KW's more > recent period (1986-1991) should contain a more digitally-made, structured, > sound, free of error and glitch. Maybe going out on a limb here, but I would have to disagree on this, because I feel that at least some of these wrong notes are errors that Kraftwerk have perhaps *chosen* to leave in the mix! Granted, the sequencing may perhaps not be 100%, but there are definitely some melodies where there are odd notes struck, but I always felt that KW must have chosen to retain these in the mix. Let's face it, they have the facilities and time to be perfectionists about their recordings. With such resources, why else would odd little glitches be left in the mix other than voluntarily? Perhaps they felt that the mistakes added that little extra difference. Similarly, live performances seem well littered with the odd bum note; I often wonder if some of these are deliberate, to perhaps somewhat perversely prove that it is *not* all pre-programmed, that they really *are* playing the instruments! It just seems to me like some of the melodies are so simplistic, it would be easier to *not* hit a bum note!! As some examples; if you have the CD's you may wish to try out; 'Showroom Dummies', on 'TEE'; at approximately 4.53 - there's an odd little cluster of notes, one of which definitely sounds out of place. As it is not a sequenced melody, if it were sloppy playing surely it would have been re-done until correct? 'Computer Love' on 'Computer World'; at approximately 3.31, there is a note that sounds like its been cut half way through, rather than decaying, as on all other passes. Again, it's a hand-played melody, not a sequencer, there's no reason why it couldn't have been re-done, if it were a genuine mistake, or the mix repeated if it were at that stage? Still with 'Computer Love'; round about the 4.45 mark; the bassline changes, as if the same notes as on the preceding and following sections are being played but in half the normal time-span; I've heard fans referring in the past to this as a clear mistake - but I always felt this was a really neat part of the track! See what you think... Perhaps it's all in the eye of the beholder, so to speak; one man's obvious bum note is anothers neat little twist... Or maybe not - you decide! Ian Calder ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 18:46:35 -0500 Subject: Re: ANALOG! Really-From: slang@madison.k12.wi.us (SolVenT) >> analog rules all digital sucks > >No comment. People who say "digital sucks" suck. No comment. JoN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 20:14:40 -0500 Subject: Regarding Re; Synclaviers etc. Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Actually - the mellotron sounds on Radioactivity are choir sounds - not string sounds. But I do agree that the odd note syndrom has very added effect to the songs - like the machines are alive like humans - ie. they make the occasional mistake too :-) The Computer Love missing bass note - I always found it interesting and I certainly think it could have been redone, but they chose not too and I personally like it. I also like the Single TR-808-like snare drum hit JUST before "More Fun To COmpute" breaks into the ending coda - THAT is subtle beauty!!!!! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 20:16:50 -0500 Subject: Harmony Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com The best is when analog, digital, and sampling are melded into perfect electronic harmony....some is better for some stuff - others for other stuff. I hate digital drums but some digital voices are certainly interesting. I usually like anything analog though! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 20:58:31 -0500 Subject: Re: ANALOG! Really-From: ChipLamb@aol.com >> analog rules all digital sucks > >No comment. > >-- >********************************* > Paulo Mouat, mouat@telepac.pt >********************************* Bravo Paulo! Now can we get back to making this a real mailing list? Ya' know, we're really beating a dead horse here, as they say, with this argument, and it is only made more evident with such unfounded statements and endless retorts such as these. No offense to my fellow Kraftwerkians! The Chipper "We're charging our batteries..." The Chipper Forwarded message: From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Sender: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Date: 96-03-28 17:03:24 EST that Really-From: Paulo Mouat > analog rules all digital sucks No comment. - -- ********************************* Paulo Mouat, mouat@telepac.pt ********************************* ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #511 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #512 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Saturday, 30 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 512 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 29 Mar 96 08:55:13 EST Subject: Re: ANALOG! Really-From: Jonathan.Jones@bbc.co.uk (Jonathan Jones) Grow up! I thought this was a forum for debate and facts about Kraftwerk Not for people to slag eachother off JJ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 10:17:28 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Trans Europe Really-From: JON ALSBURY As far as I am aware the lyric is 'elegence & decadence', though the idea of 'thick curtains' is not altogether un-appealing! j "music non stop, techno pop" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 10:16:25 EST Subject: Re: ANALOG! Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle People who say "people who say "digital sucks" suck" suck. No comment. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 11:58:33 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Trans Europe Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 10:17 AM 3/29/96 +0000, JON ALSBURY wrote: >As far as I am aware the lyric is 'elegence & decadence', though the idea >of 'thick curtains' is not altogether un-appealing! Rest assured, the lyrics as printed in the booklet of the Cleopatra issue of the 'TEE' CD do indeed read, "Elegance and thick curtains". I personally find it difficult to believe that this is *not* what Kraftwerk is saying here. The image of thick curtains remains right within the spectrum of what is understood to be a lush aspect of European life and living. I sincerely doubt that KW would have said "Elegance and decadence" for a number of reasons, but the main one being that decadence means "a process, condition, or period of deterioration or decline, as in morals or art; decay". What are the chances that Kraftwerk included mention of deterioration and decay (of morals, art, etc.) in perhaps their most optimistic song to date which praises the comforts and class of European culture? Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Elegance and thick curtains..." ;o) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 09:20:13 -0300 Subject: Re: Harmony Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) >The best is when analog, digital, and sampling are melded into perfect >electronic harmony....some is better for some stuff - others for other stuff. Ahhhh...the good old sound sense...why don't we talk about Kraftwerk, just to justify the name of the mailing list? =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 10:41:22 -0300 Subject: Re: Trans Europe Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) > What are the chances that Kraftwerk included mention of >deterioration and decay (of morals, art, etc.) in perhaps their most >optimistic song to date which praises the comforts and class of European >culture? The word "decadence" can be used in a *tender* way, specialy in the context of the song, don't you agree? I had doubts about the correct words. I thought that "elegance and decadence", althought, is a cliché, in opposition of others original and, sometimes, bizarre concepts in the KW's lyrics (as "Showroom Dummies"). =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 14:55:39 +0100 Subject: MODules Really-From: "Timour JGENTI" STOP THIS DIGITAL / ANALOG CONFRONTATION, you're loosing your time... just one little question, is there an internet site, where I could find KRAFTWERK's tunes in MOD format ( or S3M, XM ) ? I've done some MODs of Autobahn, Man Machine and Europe Endless, but it has very poor sample quality, etc (i've done it to learn the MOD programming ). Now i'm doing "The Robots" with FastTracker 2 , but I wanna know if there are already done MODs of KW melodies...? Tim / LCF Timour.Jgenti@ifp.fr "Ya tvoy sluga, ya tvoy rabotnik..." # # ## # ### ### # # ### ## # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ## ## ### ## # # # # ## ## ## # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ##### ### # # # # ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 09:01:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Trans Europe Really-From: David Bass > Scott M. Barnhill wrote: > > Rest assured, the lyrics as printed in the booklet of the Cleopatra > issue of the 'TEE' CD do indeed read, "Elegance and thick curtains". I > personally find it difficult to believe that this is *not* what Kraftwerk is > saying here. The image of thick curtains remains right within the spectrum > of what is understood to be a lush aspect of European life and living. I > sincerely doubt that KW would have said "Elegance and decadence" for a > number of reasons, but the main one being that decadence means "a process, > condition, or period of deterioration or decline, as in morals or art; > decay". What are the chances that Kraftwerk included mention of > deterioration and decay (of morals, art, etc.) in perhaps their most > optimistic song to date which praises the comforts and class of European > culture? > Interesting idea! Personally, I think the lyric is "elegance and decadence". It always made me think of the Europe of the past - the 1920's, perhaps - rather than the present. And the song is Europe _Endless_, after all. I have a vinyl copy of TEE in German - although I haven't listened to it in quite a while, I don't recall any lines that sounded like they were talking about curtains! :-) It does make me wonder, though - perhaps "decadence" is the best available English word for something that was better expressed in German? If I had a working turntable I'd listen to my copy and find out... :-( Better-informed opinions welcomed... David - -- David Bass | SAS Institute, Documentation Development | Love each other sasdgb@sas.com | (John 15:17) (919) 677-8000, ext. 5682 | ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 15:14:02 +0000 Subject: Golden Cloud Really-From: "Gustav Holmberg" On the cd issue of Computer World (EMI United Kingdom), the copyright is given as belonging to "Golden Cloud Ltd under exclusive licence to EMI Records Ltd", whereas on several other albums it is owned by Kling klang. What is the reason for this? What is Golden Cloud? Is Golden Cloud also attributed with owning the copyright on the original vinyl edition? Cheers Gustav Gustav Holmberg, PhD student, History of Science and Ideas Lund University, Sweden. Gustav.Holmberg@fil.lu.se http://www.df.lth.se/~wilt ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 09:58:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Trans Europe Really-From: "Gerald E. Withers" Now this decadance and curtain thing has me thinking... So I'm goiung to listen tonight and chack it out. I have TEE inthe German Vinyl version. I'll let you know. Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/100HD 030/882/5Mb 50Mhz 401 Euclid Ave //// makes A2386 & VGA 150MB HD Syracuse N.Y. 13210 \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum 28/24 gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 15:13:36 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Vorsprung durch Technik' / Synclavier / Filters Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com Yes, I'm an analog aficionado myself, though I do like digital sound in certain applications where it actually sounds more "electronic" than analog sound. And it certainly comes in handy in the case of drum machines. On the other hand, regarding the sound of analog KW vinyl vs. digital CD, there's no contest--on a good system, the vinyl annihilates the CD! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 21:27:42 GMT Subject: Re: Trans Europe Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >> of what is understood to be a lush aspect of European life and living. I >> sincerely doubt that KW would have said "Elegance and decadence" for a >> number of reasons, but the main one being that decadence means "a process, >> condition, or period of deterioration or decline, as in morals or art; >> decay". What are the chances that Kraftwerk included mention of >> deterioration and decay (of morals, art, etc.) in perhaps their most >> optimistic song to date which praises the comforts and class of European >> culture? >> > >Interesting idea! Personally, I think the lyric is "elegance and >decadence". It always made me think of the Europe of the past - the Europe Endless definetely uses the lyrics "Elegance and decadence", I believe it also Parks, Palaces and Hotels. Using elegance, decadence, parks, palaces and hotels elequently describes Europe as we know it. The decadence of Vienna in the 1920's, or of London in the 1980's or Moscow in the 1990's show that Europes character is endless and timeless. The point is that europe has a rich cultural heritage. It had class, it had elegance and it certainly had decadence and all these things are equally applicable now. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 21:39:19 GMT Subject: 'Vorspring durch Teknik' - SPEAK AND SPELL Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Those sounds you are describing comes from the Speak&Spell-machine. From >what I remembers, it is three patterns, you can hear them when you turn the >machine on. We used one of those in early trafo concerts (87). I have heard this rumour as well, however can you confirm that its true? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 21:58:33 GMT Subject: Re: ANALOG! Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >People who say "people who say "digital sucks" suck" suck. >No comment. > I've only one thing to say. There has been some very good digital electronic music and some very good analogue electronic music. I thought the point of Kraftwerk is that they use the LATEST technology available, regardless of whether it is digital or analogue. The cheapness and therefore widespread availability of digital technology has given many more people the opportunity to make records - in my opinion this doesn't 'suck'. Lets end this flameing and agree there is a place for both technologies. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 21:36:44 GMT Subject: Re: Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Grow up! >I thought this was a forum for debate and facts about Kraftwerk >Not for people to slag eachother off > >JJ It is a free internet. Very rude comments were made about me recently and I didn't complain - although I did reply. However, I do agree that this shouldn't be a forum for slagging each other off. Indeed I have received much direct mail which is actually encouraging me to continue contributing to this list. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 20:07:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Trans Europe Really-From: gewither@mailbox.syr.edu (gewither) >-- Really-From: JON ALSBURY >As far as I am aware the lyric is 'elegence & decadence', though the idea >of 'thick curtains' is not altogether un-appealing! Just to put an end to this controversy I sat down and listend real close to "Europa Endlos" (I have a German Vinyl). It is eleganz und dekadenz. So elegance and decadence, I can't say what the english version sounds like. Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/950HD 030/882/17Mb 50Mhz //// makes A2386 & VGA & 150MB HD gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum 28/24 \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 CD-ROM ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 21:47:42 -0500 Subject: ToneFloat CD Really-From: fl12@cornell.edu (fernando) This item is available from Vinyl Ink (vinylink@ari.net)... I know that someone inquired about it on the list (wished I would have kept the post to mail directly, sorry for the inconvinience). George is a great guy. ARTIST: KRAFTWERK (TONE FLOAT) TITLE: Organisation COUNTRY/FORMAT: GERCD DESCRIPTION: Mega-rare pre-KRAFTWERK including an early KRAFTWERK track PRICE: $20.00 "my chest is burning, like if someone set my soul alight"-- the Chameleons "heart and soul... one will burn" -- Joy Division "death is not the answer, for your soul may burn in hell"-- the The ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 22:58:57 -0500 Subject: Synthanorma Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Is it just me--during Kraftwerk songs, especially the likes of "Man-Machine" and "More fun to Compute" (end coda) --I seem to be taken over by the pulse of the rhythm...the opening clicks of "Man-Machine" get me every time - i may be loose and limber before it starts, but when the pulses start, I, like the SMPTE in all of us, lock into place with the rhythm. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 23:46:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans Europe Really-From: ChipLamb@aol.com On the contrary; the lyrics are quite clearly "Elegance and thick curtains" and are also listed this way in the Cleopatra liner notes for the CD. I think I'd take their word over the book. The Chipper "Elegance and thick curtains..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 01:09:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Trans Europe Really-From: gewither@mailbox.syr.edu (gewither) >-- Really-From: ChipLamb@aol.com >On the contrary; the lyrics are quite clearly "Elegance and thick curtains" >and are also listed this way in the Cleopatra liner notes for the CD. I think >I'd take their word over the book. >The Chipper >"Elegance and thick curtains..." I'd rather trust my ears and expertise in the german language that what appears in the booklet of some re-issue. I have the original LP - yes, it a german version. They CLEARLY state decadence and not Thick Curtains. It wouldn't be the first time I have seen misprints in booklets. Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/950HD 030/882/17Mb 50Mhz //// makes A2386 & VGA & 150MB HD gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum 28/24 \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 CD-ROM ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #512 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #513 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Sunday, 31 March 1996 Volume 02 : Number 513 Re; 'Thick Curtains/Decadance' Speak & Spell Re: Home Computer bassline? Re: BBC Radio documentary - "Kraftwerk" Ukrainians "Computerwelt" lyrics Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #512 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 30 Mar 96 04:49:15 EST Subject: Re; 'Thick Curtains/Decadance' Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@compuserve.com> The lyrics to 'Europe Endless' as printed in the Cleopatra CD re-issue are wrong, of that there is no doubt - for starters, many of the lines are missing altogether - where is 'Life is Timeless?' etc.? So, judging again from the German version, it is 'decadance' *not* 'thick curtains', for sure. So why are they wrong, you may ask? Here's my theory anyway - all that Cleopatra have done is copy the lyrics from the Japanese release of the 'TEE' LP - I have the original vinyl issue of this, complete with lyric sheet - and this is where the misunderstanding is from, IMO. If you are familiar with Japanese releases of these times, you will know that they (almost) always included a lyric sheet, regardless of whether or not the original releases from other countries did or not. So, in many cases the Japanese record company involved would have to make up their own lyric sheet, without the benefit of an original from which to copy from. This is certainly the case with most Kraftwerk releases. And to be fair, the remainder of the 'TEE' lyrics are fine, but 'Europe Endless' definitely suffered from a botched transcription. There are other Japanese releases I have and sometimes it is quite hilarious to read some of the transcriptions of the lyrics, if you know from other releases what they are meant to be. But many times they are 100% OK and I'm sure that many Japanese fans would more than welcome these additional sheets. Since no other copies of 'TEE' came with a lyric sheet, as far as I know, I can but presume that this is where Cleopatra records copied the lyrics from and where the 'thick curtains' etc. mistakes comes from. Ian Calder ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 09:30:32 -0500 Subject: Speak & Spell Really-From: NDKent@aol.com Since there has been some discussion of the Texas Instruments Speak and Spell, I listened to one of those $100 sample CDs called "Robots and Computers". This disc is aimed squarely at musicians wanting to be like Kraftwerk (fat chance if you have to buy sample CDs to sound like them). Interestingly they got a hold of a Speak and Spell and seem to have sampled every melody and word it makes (or at least lots of them). There are some neat sounds, but the makers spend too much cd time vocoding various words. A few synth and drum sounds made me smile though. East West (The sample disc company, not the WEA affiliate) sells it in the US. Time+Space in the UK. This recording seems to be of German origin. Hint: You might be able to hear this disc without shelling out the $100 by visiting a real big musical instrument store. There they have 100 disc CD changers filled with these sorts of sample discs to listen to before you buy them on headphones. Nicholas Kent website with bands like YMO, P-Model, Plastics, Logic System: http://id.thing.net/artskool/jem/jem.html ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 10:29:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Home Computer bassline? Really-From: Brendan Heading >As one of the current issues is sounds on Home computer, I realised >that I have been wondering about how the bass sound on Home computer >was made. My guess is that it is made up from at least two sounds, >one being a dry bass from one of their Mini Moogs, together with >a ring-modulated bass. >If anyone else has been trying to duplicate that sound, please >give information. The closest thing I have heard to it is one of the presets on a Yamaha DX7. Obviously, the DX7 wasn't around at the time of CW, so you're probably right with the Minimoog. Must say though it sounds more like one of the resonating filters on overdrive but I could be wrong. In fact, the version on The Mix sounds almost exactly the same as the DX7 one I've heard. I have this nasty feeling, btw, that KW used the DX7 a lot on The Mix. You know on Autobahn 1991, were there's a synth bit instead of the first flute bit ? That sounds like a DX7 bell tone t'me. |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |***** Amiga makes your fantasies become reality!! ******| ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 10:31:38 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: BBC Radio documentary - "Kraftwerk" Really-From: Brendan Heading >-- Really-From: majortom@muc.de (((mw))) >>Really-From: Brendan Heading >>Opinions and criticism, guys! Do ya want more ? (The above is about 20% of >>the whole feature!!) >I say, that is brilliant material! This is the first time that I heard >some of the facts like first hand comments about how KW made their >percussion back then. I've always admired the drums on tracks like >Kling Klang and Tanzmusik but until now only heard rumours and theorys >on how it was done. Also the description of the Kling Klang studio >sounds very much like the setup pictured on the back of Ralf & >Florian. >This documentary certainly is more authentic than Bussy's book. Thanks >for typing that in and I'd love to read the rest too. Thanks very much for the appreciation. I recorded the thing on audio tape several months ago, and I hadn't relised the value of it to KW fans until I began reading the superb Aktivitaet articles that Ian began putting on for us. Ian - well done, mate. As for this one, well, I gotta type the rest in, it'll be a day or two in the coming. The thing about it I noticed was how human the KW guys are, especially Wolfgang and Karl. Karl tells of how KW got "so bloody drunk" on the way back on the TEE promo train trip. They crack little jokes here and there as well, and you just think, what a down-to-earth bunch of blokes they are. Very interesting about Ralf's cycling accident during the making of Techno-pop. The rest is on the way, dudes! |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |***** Amiga makes your fantasies become reality!! ******| ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 22:35:07 +0000 Subject: Ukrainians Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de A group called "Ukrainians" are apparently planning to release a charity single with a cover version of "Radioactivity", on the occasion of the 10th anniversary of the Tschernobyl reactor accident. The earns of the single are for meant for the "Ukrainian Children's Appeal Fund". Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 22:35:07 +0000 Subject: "Computerwelt" lyrics Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de > Plus, does anyone know the english translation of the > extra words that are in Computerwelt as opposed to Computer World? German text: Interpol und Deutsche Bank, FBI und Scotland Yard, Flensburg und das BKA haben unsere Daten da. Nummern, Zahlen, Handel, Leute. Interpol und Deutsche Bank, FBI und Scotland Yard, Finanzamt und das BKA haben unsere Daten da. Computerwelt, denn Zeit ist Geld. Automat und Telespiel leiten heut' die Zukunft ein. Computer fuer den Kleinbetrieb, Computer fuer das Eigenheim. Reisen, Zeit, Medizin, Unterhaltung. Translation: Interpol and Deutsche Bank, FBI and Scotland Yard, Flensburg and the BKA have our data. Numbers, Commerce, People. Interpol and Deutsche Bank, FBI and Scotland Yard, Inland Revenue and the BKA have our data. Computer World, because time is money. Automaton and video game introduce the future nowadays. Computers for the small firm, Computers for the home. Journeys, Time, Medicine, Entertainment. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 14:38:21 -0800 Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #512 Really-From: lenpacnw@nwlink.com (Len - Pacific NW) >Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu > >At 10:17 AM 3/29/96 +0000, JON ALSBURY wrote: > >>As far as I am aware the lyric is 'elegence & decadence', though the idea >>of 'thick curtains' is not altogether un-appealing! > > > Rest assured, the lyrics as printed in the booklet of the Cleopatra >issue of the 'TEE' CD do indeed read, "Elegance and thick curtains". I >personally find it difficult to believe that this is *not* what Kraftwerk is >saying here. The image of thick curtains remains right within the spectrum >of what is understood to be a lush aspect of European life and living. I >sincerely doubt that KW would have said "Elegance and decadence" for a >number of reasons, but the main one being that decadence means "a process, >condition, or period of deterioration or decline, as in morals or art; >decay". What are the chances that Kraftwerk included mention of >deterioration and decay (of morals, art, etc.) in perhaps their most >optimistic song to date which praises the comforts and class of European >culture? > >Robotically Yours, >Scott M. Barnhill >mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >"Elegance and thick curtains..." ;o) > Greetings from a long-term lurker. I'm sure I don't know as much about KW as most, but the decadence of pop culture I am familiar with. And, IMHO, anyone who would celebrate meeting Iggy Pop and David Bowie in Berlin would have a high probability of being on friendly terms with the concept of decadence. Len ===Lenpacnw@nwlink.com======================== "Let us dare to read, think, speak and write." ======================John Adams============== ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #513 *******************************