From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #549 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 1 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 549 Re: The 96 Kraftwerk Poll!!!! Duesseldorf Web Site 'Ralf und Florian' comic book Re: 'Ralf und Florian' comic book ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 17:35:30 -0300 Subject: Re: The 96 Kraftwerk Poll!!!! Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) THE KW POOL: 1. Trans Europe Express 2. Trans Europe Express 3. David Bowie 4. *** 5. male 6. 31 7. Brazil =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 16:09:05 -0500 Subject: Duesseldorf Web Site Really-From: mach25@indy.net (Fred Becker) Could someone translate this text from the following Duesseldorf web site and post it here? http://sunserver1.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de/%7Ehauptn/kraft.html Kraftwerk Nat=FCrlich mu=DF hier die Bands aller Bands honoriert werden. Wer hat sich nicht schon auf sie berufen, von der EBM bis zur Industrial-Szene, von Heaven 17 bis Depeche Mode, von Rap-Stars wie Africa Bambataa bis zur house und techno scene, gesampelt werden sie mit James Brown und George Clinton wohl immer noch am meisten (teilweise sogar in ein und demselben Song!) und selbst hard core bands wie Big Black versuchten sich an Coverversionen von Kraftwerk. Zu erz=E4hlen gibt es viel, hier vielleicht das wesentlichste: 1968 beschlossen Ralf H=FCtter und Florian Schneider-Essleben w=E4hrend= ihrer gemeinsamen Zeit auf der Akademie in Remscheid ein gemeinsames Projekt namens Organisation zu verwirklichen. Beide hatten musikalische Erfahrungen; Ralf H=FCtter studierte seit '58 Klavier und Schneider war ein begnadeter Jazzfl=F6tist. Als Organisation das erste Mal in Berlin spielten, wurden sie noch mit Tomaten beworfen. Sie beschlossen schlie=DFlich, sich in Kraftwerk= umzubenennen. 1970 half ihnen der Percussionist Klaus Dinger (sp=E4ter dann bei NEU) bei ihrer ersten LP, mit der ihnen schon ein Top-30 Erfolg gelang. Von da an tauschten sie mehrmals Gastmusiker aus, so spielten u.a. bei life-Konzerten Emil Schult (war auch f=FCr die Cover-Illustrationen zust=E4ndig), Plato Riviera und sp=E4ter dann fest Karl Bartos und Wolfgang= Fl=FCr. Mit "Kraftwerk 2" 1971 wurden Kraftwerk zur beliebtesten Band des Jahres in der Zeitung "Sounds" gew=E4hlt. "Ruck Zuck" wurde als bester Track bezeichnet. Mit Gr=FCndung ihres Kling-Klang-Studios wurden die Arbeiten an ihren LPs aufwendiger und noch sensibler gestaltet, so da=DF die Perfektionisten 1973 schlie=DFlich erstmals beschlossen, eine Weile nicht mehr life aufzutreten. Dies sollte nicht das letzte Mal sein. 1974 kam der gro=DFe Durchbruch international mit dem St=FCck "Autobahn", welches Anfang 1975 auch auf Platz 1 der US-Billboard-Charts stie=DF. In den Staaten traten sie dann ziemlich lange mit einer Nostalgie-Show auf, kurzgeschnittene Haare und maschinenhafte Bewegungen wurden schnell zu ihrem Markenzeichen. Mit ihrem 5. Album "Radioaktivit=E4t" griffen sie auch erneut dem Zeitgeist voraus, indem sie sich selbst nicht als Band, sondern als "Konzept, das wir Menschmaschine" bezeichneten. 1976 pr=E4gte Ralf H=FCtter dann das ber=FChmt-prophetische Zitat: "In 20= Jahren werden nach unserer Meinung kaum noch Gruppen mit Gitarren und Schlagzeugen auftreten. F=FCr uns geh=F6ren diese Instrumente heute schon der= Vergangenheit an." Kraftwerks Konzerte wurden weltbekannt, so u.a. '76 auf der B=FChne des Pariser "Olympia" oder auf dem Rotterdamer Science Fiction Festival, 1977 setzten sie jedoch erneut life aus. Der Kult um die Band hielt dennoch an; gleichzeitig erz=FCrnten sich= Kritiker =FCber ihre "Emotionslosigkeit"und den konsequenten Einsatz von Synthesizern bei ihren life-Auftritten. Kraftwerk trieben ihre roboterhaften Attit=FCden deswegen erst recht auf die Spitze, indem sie sich bei ihrem "Comeback" 1978 mit einem genialen Bubenstreich r=E4chten, der ebenfalls in die Musikgeschichte einging: Zeitgleich pr=E4sentierten sie am 1.4.78 ihre neue LP "MenschMaschine" in= New York und Paris , wobei aber jeweils 2 Musiker von Roboterpuppen ersetzt= wurden. Den Hit "Roboter" haben sie deshalb niemals in der ZDF-Hitparade gespielt, Dieter-Thomas Heck mu=DF seine schlimmste Zeit mitgemacht haben. Erst 1981, mittlerweile war man ja Kraftwerks Schaffenspausen gewohnt, kam ihre n=E4chste LP "Computerwelt" heraus, auf der sie gleichzeitig FBI, die Deutsche Bank, Interpol und die BKA aufs Korn nahmen. W=E4hrend ihrer n=E4chsten Abstinenz gelangten Kraftwerk =FCberraschenderwei= se trotzdem in die englischen Charts auf Platz 1 mit "Das Model". Ein neuer Kraftwerk-Boom in England und Deutschland entstand und 1982 traten Kraftwerk wieder im Fernsehen auf. 1983 verbl=FCfften Kraftwerk dann erneut mit dem Kult-Hit "Tour de France", der sogar ein dreiviertel Jahr erneut in die Charts zog und zwar als Erkennungsmelodie der Tour de France-Berichte. Die Jahre zogen ins Land und 1986 meldeten sich Kraftwerk erneut mit "Electric Cafe" zur=FCck. Wieder gab es eine jahrelange Pause und trotzdem gab es 1991 ein neues Album "The Mix", doch dann tauchten die ersten Aufl=F6sungsger=FCchte auf und wirklich: im gleichen Jahr verliess Karl Bartos Kraftwerk, um mit Lothar Manteuffel (Ex-Rheingold) Elektrik Musik zu gr=FCnden, welche es dann sogar schafften zur Erkennungsmelodie der Dieter Moor-Show zu werden. 1993 verwirklichten Emil Schult und Wolfgang Fl=FCr dann das Projekt "Jamo", deren Erl=F6se ausschlie=DFlich den mi=DFhandelten Kindern aus dem Jugoslawien-Konflikt= zugute kommen sollte. Hierzu gab es auch ein Special-Interview in "Ecstasy".) Mittlerweile 1995, auf dem h=F6chsten Boom der techno und house-scene kann man es sich einfach nicht vorstellen, da=DF Kraftwerk sich nie mehr zur=FCckmelden werden,= immerhin traten sie vor 2 Jahren ja noch spontan in einem einzigen Konzert in Osnabr=FCck auf. Und wirklich, nach gut unterrichteten Quellen sind Kraftwerk immer noch jeden Tag im Studio und dies bestimmt nicht nur hobby-m=E4=DFig. Ralf H=FCtter hat au=DFerdem wieder eine neue vierk=F6pfige Besetzung zusammengestellt und wer wei=DF...? Zu w=FCnschen bleibt nur, da=DF nicht =E4hnlich wie bei Yello nur eine= hommage-LP herauskommen wird und schon gar nicht nur aus dem low-spirit-Bereich. Echte Kraftwerk-Fans w=FCnschen sich eine eigene LP von ihen und da= Kraftwerk doch bestimmt eifrige Internet-Leser sind, sei ihnen gesagt, eine Zusammenarbeit mit Robert Hood, Christian Vogel oder Oval w=E4re da doch= eine Anregung, vielleicht geschieht dies aber doch nicht vor 1997? Insider munkeln jedoch, da=DF sie immer wieder mal an aktuellen= house-releases beteiligt sind, z.b bei "Hell" oder "Auto Repeat Revisited". Spa=DFig ist es immer wieder, ihre Samples irgendeo zu entdecken, so u.a.= bei Advanced Chemistry oder einigen Casual-Releases. Am dreistesten erschien jedoch der komplette Einsatz von "Roboter" bei einem Vorspannde indonesischenKannibalenr-Films "Primitives" mit dem indonesischen Actionstar Barry Prima, let's hommage!=20 Diskographie:=20 Kraftwerk (LP '70)=20 Kraftwerk 2 (LP '71)=20 Ralf + Florian (LP '73)=20 Autobahn (LP '75)=20 Radio-Aktivit=E4t (LP '75)=20 Trans Europa Express (LP '77)=20 Roboter (7" '78)=20 Mensch-Maschine (LP '78)=20 Computerwelt (LP '81)=20 Musique Non Stop (12" '86)=20 Elektrik Cafe (LP '86)=20 The Mix (LP '91)=20 plus div. Singles in englisch (Show Room Dummies, The Modal, Tour de= France) UK-Releases : Radio-Activity (LP '75)=20 Exceller 8 (LP '75)=20 Trans-Europe Express (LP '77)=20 The Man Machine (LP '78)=20 Elektro Kinetik (LP '81)=20 Computer World (LP '81)=20 Techno Pop (EP '83)=20 Electric Cafe (LP '86)=20 The Mix (LP '91) Kontakt: Nur =FCber ein Wurmloch, Digitalisierung oder den Quantensprung! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 20:30:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: 'Ralf und Florian' comic book Really-From: Jason Musser The Germanophon cd bootleg didn't come with a copy of the comic, did it? This is the only cd I haven't found yet. I have an old vinyl copy, but no comic. Does the comic actually seem to have anything to do with the album? - -Jason ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 22:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: 'Ralf und Florian' comic book Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 08:30 PM 4/30/96 -0500, Jason Musser wrote: >The Germanophon cd bootleg didn't come with a copy of the comic, did it? >This is the only cd I haven't found yet. I have an old vinyl copy, but >no comic. Does the comic actually seem to have anything to do with the >album? I was actually quite impressed by the packaging job done by Germanofon on this release. The CD comes complete with the original artwork (a drawing for each song on the album), the comics, and the color photo of Ralf & Florian inside an early embodiment of Kling Klang studio surrounded by their equipment, neon-lit names, and even a traffic cone in the background! :o) The only complaint I have is that the cover art is not the same as the original cover artwork from the vinyl record, but despite being misplaced, most of the original artwork is included in this CD. The comics are very cute, but don't necessarily have anything to do with the songs themselves. There are respective drawings for each of the songs on the album, and there are also comic strips featuring animated power jacks and other interesting things. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu Yes, I *do* have a traffic cone in my home studio... ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #549 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #550 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 2 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 550 Re: 'Ralf und Florian' comic book Re: I have the right to say Re: 'Ralf und Florian' comic book telephone lines keep eating my words Re: Amazing sounds with Florian Schneider ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 01 May 96 05:05:02 EDT Subject: Re: 'Ralf und Florian' comic book Really-From: Mark Stagg <101706.1667@CompuServe.COM> Yeah...the Germanofon packaging is excellent (and the CD quality itself is also very good, especially given it's vinyl source) but not all copies seem to have the comic insert. All three Germanofon KW releases have been seen on sale in some high-street record shop chains here in the UK (HMV in particular) and I've noticed that these versions of 'R+F' don't have the insert - perhaps it was only included the initial batch or something? The Germanofon versions are quite definitely superior (in both sound-quality and packaging) to the other ('no label') CD versions around, but if anyone only comes across these versions then I still reckon they're probably worth buying - the two examples I've heard are certainly listenable enough. STAGGMAN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 11:25:43 GMT Subject: Re: I have the right to say Really-From: "KANG K.F. B.ENG.ELECT." > From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) > To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu > Organization: Escola de Administracao de Empresas de Sao Paulo da Fundacao Getulio Vargas - EAESP/FGV > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 16:56:14 -0300 > Subject: Re: I have the right to say > Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) > > > > > >You guys go on a stuff about Kraftwerk, but I think Tangerine Dream > >is by far the best synthesizer band. I used to like KW ( autobahn is > >the best one ) but it takes them ages to release an album. TD has got > >dozens of album released. Sorry lads, but Kraftwerk is crap, and only > >pratts listen to crappy music. So long, dude... > > I never knew that the quality of a band is measured by the number of > releases in a determined space of time. Many of the albums of > Tangerine Dream are boring soundtracks, composed like in a > production line... > > > =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= > carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br > EAESP/FGV > Brasil yes ,you are right; I have realized my error. But now I'm a Sepultura fan. ROots ,bloody roots. Long live cavalera. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 06:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: 'Ralf und Florian' comic book Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 05:05 AM 5/1/96 -0400, Mark Stagg <101706.1667@CompuServe.COM> wrote: >All three Germanofon KW releases have been seen on sale in some high-street >record shop chains here in the UK (HMV in particular) and I've noticed that >these versions of 'R+F' don't have the insert - perhaps it was only included >in the initial batch or something? Well, here in New York I also found my copies of the Germanofon 'Kraftwerk' and 'Kraftwerk 2' in HMV, just mixed right in with the regular KW section and stickered as imports. Since 'Ralf & Florian' wasn't there, I ended up ordering it by mail, which may have been a good move seeing as how not all of the Germanofon 'R & F's come with the comic, like you mentioned. I was also able to locate the other bootlegs of 'Kraftwerk' and 'Kraftwerk 2' that are *not* on the Germanofon label, which I must admit were appealing to me at first because of the live track from Cologne '75 that they each contain, but I ended up passing on them in favor for the superior sound quality of the Germanofon issues. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 13:40:09 +0100 (BST) Subject: telephone lines keep eating my words Really-From: David Davis I must apologise if my 2 recent messages on "RALF UND FLORIAN" seemed to have some strange non-sensical bits, but the telephone lines keep swallowing up whole sentances ! Please allow me to supply the missing bits... 1. should have read ..."I really love the moog melody at the start of Elektrishes roulette, it's so catchy and simple, one of the first classic melodies Kraftwerk committed to vinyl"... 2. should have read... "I can hear Rother & Dinger on guitar and drums... but what on EARTH is Florian playing?!..." I do apologise , someone's server obviously was feeling peckish ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 01 May 96 19:14:53 EDT Subject: Re: Amazing sounds with Florian Schneider Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> > Really-From: David Davis > > Has any one else given any thought to the instrumentation on "Vor dem > Blauen Bock" [aka Truckstop Gondelero] ? > > It sounds to me like a live reworking of Statovarious...the former has 3 > climaxes, improvised on a mixolydian mode all in (G? I forget!) Er ... right! I wouldn't know something in a mixolydian mode if it came up and bit me but ... yes, there are similarities with 'Stratovarius'. Worthy of note; in some of Kraftwerk's 1975 shows, they opened with a piece of music that Ralf Huetter introduced as 'Kling Klang' - and sure enough the regular klings and klangs at the start are present and correct ... but the rest of this music is *totally* different, nothing at all like 'Kling Klang' a la 'Kraftwerk 2'. It is excellent actually, improvised but really good. Its a shame that an official recording never surfaced. So, the motto is that KW live versions often veer off from the recorded versions. Again, you can hear this in the live version of 'Ruckzuck' from the 1971 Cologne concert. > What I really wanted to remark on was Vor dem Blauen Bock...I can clearly > hear Rother & Dinger's guitar and drums... > In the 2nd climax I can believe it's just a wah wah electric guitar. > But the first!? > It's a sort of fuzzy bassy sound... It is Florian Schneider's flute (yes!) put through his effects, filters etc. The video clip shows this clearly. > My best guess is that he split the sound of a bass guitar into 2 > channels, one is fuzz boxed, the other wah wahed. > Any thoughts? No, Rother plays only a regular six string electric guitar, Dinger is on drum kit only. Schneider starts off with his flute; initially it is a recognisable flute sound, then we get the heaviliy effected version, very synthy it is. Later, he swops it for a violin, but it is plucked like a guitar (!) - this is happening in the second 'climax'. He obviously produces some electronic noises too, mainly at the start. Ian Calder ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #550 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #551 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 2 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 551 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 08:47:25 GMT Subject: Re:Tour De France Really-From: "Adam S. Gill" Hi everybody! Just subscribed to this list the other day - I have a small question. what is the 12" remix of Tour De France worth? - I`m thinking of taking it into a secondhand place in Manchester (I dont have a record deck now!) - I remember seeing a copy there for about 15 UK Pounds - quite a few years ago which surprised me as I didn`t think it would be "valuable". Cant give much details of the record (it`s at my parents house) but I suppose it was the standard release (pics of the guys on bikes) and a few coloured stripes I think! - Its in v.good condition. Also had the honour of seeing the band in Manchester Apollo on the Mix tour (still my all time favourite concert - even though the Robots didn`t work!) Are there any good quality CD bootlegs from this tour (or the mix tour available?) - the better the quality the better. I dont suppose the band read any of these postings but if they do - get your arses in gear and release something! Thanks for any help Adam Gill ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 10:44:12 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Amazing sounds with Florian Schneider Really-From: David Davis Thanks for shedding some light on that, Ian Calder! I'm even more impressed than ever...I'd never have suspected that Florian was playing flute & violin in a million years...but if you actually SAW him do it on video with your own two eyes, I don't suppose that leaves much doubt! But bloody hell, I really do think it's INCREDIBLE what he did with the sounds back then...pitty he isn't still being so creative!!! (sorry, I couldn't resist it...) A Mixoyldian Mode , by the way, basically just means noodling around using all the notes of a normal major scale, but with a flattened 7th. So in "G" , they use G A B C D E Fnatural , not F#. A lot less complicated than the music jargon makes it sound! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 10:50:33 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Amazing sounds with Florian Schneider Really-From: David Davis PS further thoughts on the astounding sounds of Florian's flute... "RUCKZUCK" from the Cologne Radio Show CD, 1975... time with Florian's groovy flute riff. I had been rather confused as to how Wolfgang and Karl had managed to play all the glockenspiel and electronic drum parts between the 2 of them... I think it's high time he got it back out of his basement, don't you? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 07:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 'The Mix' live bootlegs Really-From: Bedrock Online At 08:47 AM 5/2/96 +0000, "Adam S. Gill" wrote: >Robots didn`t work!) Are there any good quality CD bootlegs from this >tour (or the mix tour available?) - the better the quality the better. Adam, There are various double CD set bootlegs available from 1990/1991 concerts of 'The Mix'. Some of the most common ones are as follows: 1) Heute Abend (Casa Del Popolo, Grassina, Italy; 9 February 1990) 2) Brixton Academy 19.7.91 (Brixton Academy, London, England; 19 July 1991) 3) Non Stop (Solnahallen, Solna, Sweden; 20 October 1991) 4) Kraftwerk Dusseldorf (Phillipshalle, Dusseldorf, Germany; 31 October 1991) 5) N1 to Zurich (Zurich, Switzerland; 1991) 6) Rimini-Rimini (Bologna, Italy; 1991) There are certainly more than what is listed here, but I'm just giving you a taste. All of the aforementioned are double CD sets and the track listings on all of them basically follow the live KW 1991 set list, with slight deviations here and there. For more detailed track listing info, e-mail me directly. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Drehen wir am Radiophon..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 12:44:25 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Amazing sounds with Florian Schneider Really-From: David Davis oh good grief, all my sentences have been disappearing again... my last message was TRYING to say about Florian making snare drum sounds come out of his flute during "RUCKZUCK", simultaneously with the normal flute tones.Why do all my words keep getting swallowed up ????? I still have a copy of the original message here in my "sent mail" folder, with no omissions. Bloody computers........ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 2 May 96 08:21:46 -0400 Subject: Who sings Dentaku? Really-From: "Bruce M. Lloyd" All, I have re-subscribed to the list after about 3 years of being away from it. Sorry to say, I lost a little interest in Kraftwerk - not releasing anything and having played all the CDs about a billion times over. I have picked up Trans Slovenia Express, which did kick some energy back into my love for Kraftwerk. One question I do have, and if it has been asked here before, please excuse me. Who sings in the obvious Oriental voice on the Dentaku track, on The Mix? Is it Ralf or Florian using a device to mimic an Oriental sounding voice (if it is they've done a spectacular job!) Along the same lines, who's female voices can be heard saying "1..2..3...4" in Japanese on ComputerWorld's "Numbers"? Regards, Bruce __ Bruce M. Lloyd bml@bgi.on.ca BGI SI Markham Ontario Canada "I didn't want to make music. I didn't want to be a robot, even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years..." - -Wolfgang Fleur, leaving Kraftwerk in 1990. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 10:12:46 -0300 Subject: Re: I have the right to say Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) >yes ,you are right; I have realized my error. But now I'm a >Sepultura fan. ROots ,bloody roots. >Long live cavalera. What's happening with this mailing list? My God, there's some mad guys here now!!!! =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 10:28:49 -0300 Subject: Re: 'The Mix' live bootlegs Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) > There are various double CD set bootlegs available from 1990/1991 >concerts of 'The Mix'. Some of the most common ones are as follows: >1) Heute Abend (Casa Del Popolo, Grassina, Italy; 9 February 1990) >2) Brixton Academy 19.7.91 (Brixton Academy, London, England; 19 July 1991) >3) Non Stop (Solnahallen, Solna, Sweden; 20 October 1991) >4) Kraftwerk Dusseldorf (Phillipshalle, Dusseldorf, Germany; 31 October 1991) >5) N1 to Zurich (Zurich, Switzerland; 1991) >6) Rimini-Rimini (Bologna, Italy; 1991) Your edition of "N1 to Zurich" is a double CD???? I have this bootleg as a only one CD-set, with 9 tracks (listed in the cover as 8, with "Nummern" ommited). "Kraftwerk Dusseldorf" is the same as "Rebuilt in '92"? The day of the show and the place are the same!! =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 17:10:14 +0200 Subject: Re: I have the right to say Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) > >yes ,you are right; I have realized my error. But now I'm a > >Sepultura fan. ROots ,bloody roots. > >Long live cavalera. > > What's happening with this mailing list? My God, there's > some mad guys here now!!!! mad? sure, I know this guy, sometimes he shows his real face, and sometimes a stranger at his place... (it was my favourite thrash band until their last album ROOTS (vai toma no cu)) if KW = metallica, then Sepultura = Front 242... as comparison Thanks for your attention! TiM PS: "A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm." First Law of Robotics. - -- __ Timour JGENTI _____________ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE / DIMA gr.Image __ timour.jgenti@ifp.fr ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 02 May 96 11:22:28 EDT Subject: Re: 'The Mix' live bootlegs Really-From: Mark Stagg <101706.1667@CompuServe.COM> There seems to be two versions of that Dusseldorf show doing the rounds. In both cases the CDs themselves are identical - it's just the rest of the packaging that's different. 'Rebuilt in 92' is definitely the nicer looking one, having matching but different artwork (of *Wolfgang's* dummy, surprisingly!) on the two covers, while the other (untitled) one just has coloured paper inserts. IMHO I reckon this is the best overall bootleg of the '91 dates. It's pretty good quality (although obviously an audience recording), and it does have the complete show. 'Kling und Klang' is probably the nicest sounding and packaged CD overall, but it only has highlights. Also, some of those semi-official DJ remixes and that fabulous 'Technopop' demo are tagged onto the end of the second 'Rebuilt' CD. (This version of 'Technopop' is slightly longer, and to my ears a tiny bit better sounding than the one on 'The Remix' boot). One thing that's not obvious from listening to 'Rebuilt', though, is what happened after the opening 'Nummern'. Instead of running into 'Computerwelt', as per the rest os the tour, KW seemed to have problems with their computer, and after trying several times to start the track, the curtains were closed and the band left the stage for a short while. When they returned, they succesfully continued with 'Computerwelt' and the rest of the set. On the CD all of this is all faded out, then in again for 'Computerwelt'. I've seen live tapes of the show, though, listing this event as 'Computer Malfunktion' - as if it's an extra track! STAGGMAN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 02 May 96 11:22:31 EDT Subject: Re: Who sings Dentaku? Really-From: Mark Stagg <101706.1667@CompuServe.COM> >Who sings in the obvious Oriental voice on the Dentaku track, on The Mix? Is it Ralf or Florian >using a device to mimic an Oriental sounding voice (if it is they've done a spectacular job!) It certainly sounds electronic - maybe it's Florian's 'Robovox' device at work here, or maybe it's a treated human voice. One thing that has always puzzled me more though: who's singing on the *original* 'Dentaku'? To my ears there's definitely two different voices present - - I'm guessing that someone 'ghosted' the vocal for Ralf to follow. I'll have a wild stab at proposing it to be Takeshi Shikura (at that time from Kraftwerk's Japanese record label), who's credited on the 'Computer World' inner. Any ideas...? STAGGMAN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 17:59:23 +0200 (DFT) Subject: Wolfgang Fluer, leaving Kraftwerk *before* 1990! Really-From: Klaus Zaepke > Wolfgang Fleur, leaving Kraftwerk in 1990. Wolfgang Fluer left Kraftwerk shortly after the release of "Electric Cafe", probably in 1987. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 14:00:05 -0300 (EST) Subject: Re: I have the right to say Really-From: Eduardo Marcel Macan > (it was my favourite thrash band until their last album ROOTS (vai toma no cu)) The correct form is "vai tomar no cu" ,you forgot the r, verbs in the infinitive form are ended by "r" in portuguese, anyway that was not a nice thing to say ... :) where did you learn it? tsk tsk tsk :) E D U A R D O |\/| /\ ( /\ |\| ' ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 21:29:18 +0100 Subject: Re: Here we go again...Cabaret beckons....MAYBE Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Brian would appear to be flame-baiting again. I presume he gets some >sort of enjoyment from the fusses he creates. Say what you like. I enjoy speaking the truth and presenting all the information. My detractors are often jaelous because I get the big stories first. PLEASE remember that it was I who first revealed that the Mix 2 was a serious possibility. It was I who has been able to point fans to perhaps the BEST source of Kraftwerrk videos and live albums in Europe (if not the world). It was me who revealed that Kraftwerk may have been dropped by their record company. Here is some more information: 1) Kraftwerk may be appearing at the UK Tribal Gathering. I've now been told this by several people. The UK Tribal Gathering has been postponed until June 29th. It was supposed this weekend but their have been licensing problems. 2) Kraftwerk are considering an offer to become a cabaret act. The information source has suggested that Kraftwerk may move to Las Vegas and become a novelty act. It is possible that topless girls will appear alongside the Kraftwerk robots - a true spectacle!! I think 2 is rather unlikely!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 21:43:51 +0100 Subject: Re: Lets set em' up Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) Brendan, >And I'll do you a copy and send it back for you. I've been having >doubts about KW of late, actually I don't think they're that good. I understand your frustration, and personally I don't think EC is that good (as you'll know if you've read my mailings) but MM, CC and TEE are 3 of the best albums ever made. >I'm getting fed up with the list. Do you want to set them up? You've posted >some good hoaxes, If me and one or two others on the list join you the rumours >will make more sense. We may get chucked but so what? In early 95 I thought I was about to reveal samples of the Mix 2. Unfortunately I was not able to deliver to the list. I am NOT about to get involved in some prank to fool the list about a new album. My April joke caused enough problems. > some of those guys on the list get on my nerves. As soon as someone disagrees >with their POV they start crying. Some are OK, actually some want to help you >set up a new rumour. we'll have to be cleverer than that guy who slagged off >Kraftwerk and went on about TD People on the list are OK, some don't have a sense of humour but I think some have problems with english. I've been having my doubts about some on the list recently. The fact that some are planning new rumours doesn't surprise me. My advice is let them do what they want, but ignore them. > >|***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| >|***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| >|***** Amiga makes your fantasies become reality!! ******| > > ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:31:00 +0000 Subject: Re: Duesseldorf Web Site Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" > Could someone translate this text from the following Duesseldorf web site > and post it here? It's not worth a precise translation, IMHO. It's just one of these stupid band histories, full of mistakes. Here's my favourite: > Ralf Huetter studierte seit '58 Klavier Once again it is claimed that Ralf Huetter studied the piano for ten years. Since this nonsense appeared in a rock encyclopedia somewhere, it is repeated over and over in countless articles, but nobody seems to notice: If Ralf Huetter studied the piano since 1958, he would have entered university at the age of eleven! :-) Another example: > Zeitgleich praesentierten sie am 1.4.78 ihre neue LP "MenschMaschine" in New > York und Paris , wobei aber jeweils 2 Musiker von Roboterpuppen ersetzt wurden. If it is true that they presented the "Man Machine" album simultaneously in Paris and New York, with two members in each city, how is it possible that Ralf Huetter gave interviews at *both* release parties? Relevant information: > im gleichen Jahr verliess Karl Bartos Kraftwerk, um mit Lothar > Manteuffel (Ex-Rheingold) Elektrik Musik zu gruenden, welche es dann sogar > schafften zur Erkennungsmelodie der Dieter Moor-Show zu werden. An Elektric Music track was used as the opening melody for the Dieter Moor Show. > 1993 verwirklichten Emil Schult und Wolfgang Fluer dann das Projekt > "Jamo", deren Erloese ausschliesslich den misshandelten Kindern aus dem > Jugoslawien-Konflikt zugute kommen sollte. > Hierzu gab es auch ein Special-Interview in "Ecstasy".) Wolfgang Fluer and Emil Schult were interviewed about their project "Jamo" in the "Ecstasy" radio programme. > Insider munkeln jedoch, dass sie immer wieder mal an aktuellen house-releases > beteiligt sind, z.b bei "Hell" oder "Auto Repeat Revisited". It is rumoured that Kraftwerk are behind some House releases, like "Hell" or "Auto Repeat Revisited". > Am dreistesten erschien jedoch der komplette Einsatz von "Roboter" bei einem > Vorspannde indonesischenKannibalenr-Films "Primitives" mit dem indonesischen Actionstar > Barry Prima, let's hommage! "The Robots" was used as soundtrack for the the Indonesian movie "Primitives". Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 21:46:12 +0100 Subject: Re: 'The Mix' live bootlegs Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >IMHO I reckon this is the best overall bootleg of the '91 dates. It's pretty >good quality (although obviously an audience recording), and it does have the >complete show. 'Kling und Klang' is probably the nicest sounding and packaged As I've said there are many bootlegs available from Camden Market, London. If you want more info. please let me know. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 15:29:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Lets set em' up Really-From: Kurt Pettersen >>I'm getting fed up with the list. Do you want to set them up? You've posted >>some good hoaxes, If me and one or two others on the list join you the >rumours >will make more sense. We may get chucked but so what? >> some of those guys on the list get on my nerves. As soon as someone >disagrees >with their POV they start crying. Some are OK, actually some want >to help you >set up a new rumour. we'll have to be cleverer than that guy >who slagged off >Kraftwerk and went on about TD This type of post really shows the true intelligence of some people. Do they not have anything better to do then think up mis-information? Are they really that boring? Since I am new to this list, I wouldn't know whether this was typical behaivor. But if it is, I will make sure and remove myself from this list and find one that is more productive and less childish.... Kurt Pettersen krp@primenet.com http://idaho-web.com ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #551 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #552 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Friday, 3 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 552 Re: 'The Mix' live bootlegs Re: Here we go again...Cabaret beckons....MAYBE New Re: FS: German 'Radioaktivitaet' & 'Lifestyle' ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 18:20:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: 'The Mix' live bootlegs Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 10:28 AM 5/2/96 -0300, Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) wrote: >Your edition of "N1 to Zurich" is a double CD???? Correct you are. I forgot about that when I threw the quick list together, but "N1 to Zurich" is a single CD. Thanks for catching that one. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 03:15:15 +0200 Subject: Re: Here we go again...Cabaret beckons....MAYBE Really-From: Florian Schneider-Esleben >>Brian would appear to be flame-baiting again. I presume he gets some >>sort of enjoyment from the fusses he creates. > > Say what you like. I enjoy speaking the truth and presenting all the > information. My detractors are often jaelous because I get the big > stories first. PLEASE remember that it was I who first revealed that > the Mix 2 was a serious possibility. It was I who has been able to > point fans to perhaps the BEST source of Kraftwerrk videos and live > albums in Europe (if not the world). It was me who revealed that > Kraftwerk may have been dropped by their record company. > > Here is some more information: > > 1) Kraftwerk may be appearing at the UK Tribal Gathering. I've now > been told this by several people. The UK Tribal Gathering has been > postponed until June 29th. It was supposed this weekend but their have > been licensing problems. > > 2) Kraftwerk are considering an offer to become a cabaret act. The > information source has suggested that Kraftwerk may move to Las Vegas > and become a novelty act. It is possible that topless girls will > appear alongside the Kraftwerk robots - a true spectacle!! > > I think 2 is rather unlikely!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As always, silence is rewarded with falsities. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 21:40:23 -0600 Subject: New Really-From: robotkl@earthlink.net (Kevin Lux) I am somewhat new to this list and I have a question that may or may not be able to be answered. Has anybody ever actually been in contact with Ralf or Florian within the internet community? I myself have been looking to contact them regarding electronic music. I am an electronic musician myself and I would be very honored to at least communicate with either of them. If anyone is interested in my work, I will be posting the URL soon, as currently I am in a backlog of taping. I really respect the way Ralf & Florian handle "outsiders." It is quite remarkable. I am sure they move within the internet community unnoticed for if they were exposed they would no doubt get flooded with email. I have been listening to Kraftwerk for about 15 years now and have heard all the formal releases except the "Organisation" album. I have been watching the letters added to this list for some time and I would say the people who tend to criticize Kraftwerk and their music confuse me. If they don't like it why are they reading and responding to this digest? I see it as a form of jealousy. Granted, Kraftwerk does not put out much material especially these days. But I feel that is part of the overall "effect" they are trying to create. As each album is released, somehow it goes unnoticed in the mainstream yet we hear the mainstream change and mutate to the foundation Kraftwerk introduced prior. In a nutshell I think all music, not just electronic, though this happens to be my specialty, needs to be just a little bit more original and stop copying everyone else's good ideas. Hey, Kraftwerk does it, so that will motivate me to do the same.... Thanks, KL ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:00:57 -0400 Subject: Re: FS: German 'Radioaktivitaet' & 'Lifestyle' Really-From: mcushny@pipeline.com (Michael B. Cushny) Marco, I am particularly interested in bidding for the CD5 you posted on the mailing list CD5: 1991 GE (Electrola; 1C 560-2 04516 2) 4:08 Radioaktivitaet (francois kevorkian remix) 7:26 Radioactivity (francois kevorkian remix) 7:23 Radioactivity (william orbit remix) If it is not too late I would like to put in a bid for $30.00 please let me know the current status of it's availability. Thank you very much for your time. Sincerely Mike mcushny@nyc.pipeline.com ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #552 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #553 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Saturday, 4 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 553 Re: klingklang.de Admin stuff Admin stuff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 15:38:28 +0200 Subject: Re: klingklang.de Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) WoW: > Really-From: Florian Schneider-Esleben What does it means? Is it the true FS who joined the list, or another joker, who uses a false 'sender' to attract attention, with the short one-lined message?... curious thing are happening here... _____ |im / LCF - -- __ Timour JGENTI _____________ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE / DIMA gr.Image __ timour.jgenti@ifp.fr ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 15:06:03 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Really-From: Cursos de Internet unsubscribe kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:35:03 -0500 Subject: Admin stuff Really-From: Jon, Krocker (jkrocker@magic.mb.ca) At 3:38 PM 5/3/96, kraftwerk mailing list mangled electrons to say: Sorry for this post but I have been trying to unsub but I get no reply from majordomo, is there something wrong? Jon Krocker jkrocker@magic.mb.ca/jkrocker@mbnet.mb.ca Aus des Weltalls Ferne, Funken Radiosterne, Quasare und Pulsare - -Kraftwerk ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:54:17 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Admin stuff Really-From: "Lazlo Nibble" > Sorry for this post but I have been trying to unsub but I get no reply from > majordomo, is there something wrong? If you're not getting majordomo's autoresponses, that generally implies that your mail is going out with the wrong reply address. - -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #553 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #554 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Sunday, 5 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 554 Aktivitaet 2 - 'What a difference 10 years make?!' Re: Disinformation IS FLORIAN ON THIS LIST - (schneider@klingklang.de) IS FLORIAN ON THIS LIST? Re: IS FLORIAN ON THIS LIST - (schneider@klingklang.de) "Nachrichten" / "News" "NEU! komplett" Harmonia CD's Re: Harmonia CD's IS FLORIAN ON THIS LIST - (schneider@klingklang.de) Re: Amazing sounds schneider@klingklang.de hoax Re: "NEU! komplett" CD Link ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 04 May 96 07:07:50 EDT Subject: Aktivitaet 2 - 'What a difference 10 years make?!' Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> 'What a difference 10 years makes?!' John Shilcock reflects on the changes between the live shows that he saw in 1981 and 1991. Aktivitaet 2 - August 1992 Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The bleep, blops had been going on for some time, the volume slowly rising. Was this to be the start of a new song, previously unheard? The lights went down, the audience took the roof off, things were about to begin. We had waited a long time for this. Then that amazing computer voice introduced KRAFTWERK. As the first notes of 'Numbers' started, I was gone and so too were the hundreds of people around me. The curtains were pulled back to reveal the self illuminating Kling Klang. After a few bars the group members came on-stage, from our right to left, one at a time. They settled behind their podiums and brought 'Numbers' to life. Four neon lights, shaped to be the names of each group member, lit the stage - Ralf, Karl, Wolfgang and Florian... Oh! Did I forget to tell you?... That was the opening of the concert on the 3rd of July 1981. Yes, it did start like that back then. So you can imagine my disappointment when those curtains were pulled back in July 1991. My first reaction was "Oh, it's the same. Couldn't they have at least changed the set?" On closer inspection, Kling Klang 1991 was a more streamlined version than the one I saw in 1981. The large video screens were still there though, but I did miss those neon light names. 'Numbers' continued at a fast rate of knots. It was noticeable that the videos were now in sync with the music, a great improvement. As 'Numbers' concluded 'Computer World' started. Surprise, surprise, exactly the same as in 1991. In fact, a lot of the concert last year reflected the running order of the 1981 concerts. Some tracks were dropped (notably 'Neon Lights', 'The Hall Of Mirrors' and 'Showroom Dummies') and of course others added (though not many!) I will not start to go through each one of these and scrutinise them. However, I will pick on some of the major differences. First thing though, I cannot go on without mentioning the common factor of the 'power' of the music. Of course the mixes of the tracks varied a great deal across the decade, but the 'soul' of the music was so forceful when I heard it being played live that I'm sure the 1991 concerts will remain as strong with me 10 years from now as those from 1981 are to this day. I cannot describe the 'feeling' I had, but if you were at a concert I'm sure that you will understand. I cannot remember much of the videos from 1981. I remember whilst 'Trans-Europe Express' was playing the video showed the train tracks as seen from the front of a train, as also used last year. 'The Model' had the now well known video playing while 'The Robots' featured the original 1978 promo. The pace of the concerts in 1981 varied a lot more than those in 1991. I think I can safely say that Kraftwerk were constantly in 5th gear all the way throughout the show. However, in 1981 I can remember that about half way through the show, just after 'Radio-Activity', everything slowed down, as Kraftwerk introduced 'Ohm Sweet Ohm' by using electronic voices to proclaim 'Peace on Earth' in several languages**. When 'Ohm Sweet Ohm' did arrive it was very slow and did not speed up as on the LP. ** (In actual fact, these vocodered vocals were not singing 'peace on earth', it was 'Die Sonne, Der Mond, Die Sterne' (The Sun, The Moon, The Stars) instead. - IAC) During 'The Model' I can remember Karl playing 'switches' that triggered 'drums'. Another portion of the 1981 shows that I missed in 1991 was Florian playing his 'flute'; this was played during 'Autobahn' and went down a treat (especially as he did not have to blow down it!) 'Autobahn', back in 1981, was played at a faster speed than that of the original. It was amazing! This track also serves as another example of one of the major differences that I noticed when watching the two concerts. Kraftwerk in 1981 were far more interactive with their Kling Klang machine than they are now. During 'Autobahn' both Karl and Wolfgang left their main podiums and played 'drums' with 'sticks'. Yes, we did see some of that last year but not for five minute solos. By the way, you know that video Kraftwerk use for 'The Model'; when they show the live portions, you will notice Karl and Wolfgang playing these drum kits I have just mentioned. I am sure that these live portions of 'The Model' video is taken from 'Autobahn' when this drumming piece was going on. Florian had a much bigger part on the vocals side back in 1981. Whenever there was an electronic voice (well, in most cases anyway), Florian was the provider of it. Using a vocoder, he would tend to 'sing' along with Ralf. Notable use of this was during 'Autobahn' and 'The Robots', amongst others. The encores were the same, except for the last one. (1981 - 'It's More Fun To Compute', 1991 - 'Music Non Stop'.) However, the use of visuals here has changed. 'Trans-Europe Express' had just finished and the curtains were pulled across. (Notice the similarity again?) After a while the curtains were pulled back to show Kraftwerk playing 'Pocket Calculator' just feet away from the crowd. Here the similarity stops. The instruments differed greatly. Ralf played a miniature keyboard in both 1981 and 1991. However, last year the remainder of Kraftwerk all seemed to be playing the same type of instrument. I think that each of these were controllers, to sequencers, to play rhythm, percussion and 'bleeps and blops'. When a particular sequence was required to be played, a switch was pressed. However, back in 1981 all was different; things were being played live. Karl had a Rolf Harris type Stylophone and was tapping out the rhythm. (If you do not know what a Stylophone is then I am older than I thought!) Wolfgang had a little two drum pad set in his hand on which he played the percussion, with an electronic stick and Florian had a little box to make noises with at the press of a button. 'The Robots' was the next encore. We all can remember what happened in 1991. Fantastic stuff! When the curtains were first pulled back I thought something had gone wrong-where were the robots? Then the video started to play and I thought the robots were going to trundle on the stage at any time. After waiting several minutes though all was revealed. Back in 1981 when the curtains were pulled, the music was cranking up and getting faster and faster. To the time of the music strobe lights were flashing brightly at Kraftwerk. Through this flashing I could make out that there were now eight 'people' on stage. Four humans and four motionless dummies. However, the effect of those flashing lights was...electric. As I am running out of space, I will do a quick summary. As I had seen Kraftwerk before, back in 1981, I went into the 1991 concerts expecting to see something to top what I had seen a decade before. Frankly, I did not. I would rate them at the same level as that of the 1981 concerts. Both sets of concerts had their great moments that I am sure will be remembered for a long time. Both were very similar in content and format. Both were fantastic and I am pleased that I was a part of the 1981 and 1991 tours. I remember after the shows in 1981 that I would probably not see a concert to exceed them. In 1991 I saw those shows matched with different performances and mixes of my favourite tunes. My only disappointment with the 1991 shows was the fact that Kraftwerk appeared to be more automated. I would have liked to see a lot more 'interactivity'. Yes, there was a lot to be seen but not half as much as in the 1981 gigs. I was left with the impression that the MAN MACHINE was turning into the MACHINE MAN! I only hope I do not have to wait another ten years to see Kraftwerk and Kling Klang performing as one again. - - END -- ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 04 May 96 07:08:27 EDT Subject: Re: Disinformation Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> > Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) > > Say what you like. I enjoy speaking the truth and presenting all the > information. All your doing with your most recent mail Brian is spreading disinformation and there is already more than enough of that around regarding Kraftwerk and their activities. It's was reported in the UK music press *months* ago that Kraftwerk declined the offer to play at the 'Tribal Gathering' event. I can see no point in trying to keep this tired topic alive. For those, like myself, who are relatively new to the list but who have had neither the time nor inclination to acquaint themselves with past digests and are in some doubt to the above quote, I can but merely re-emphasise what has been said on the list recently by others and even by Brian himself on occasion; you should not assume that any post sent to the mailing list by bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) is 100% true and factual. If in any doubt, check out the past digests and make your own mind up. Ian Calder ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 17:02:20 +0100 Subject: IS FLORIAN ON THIS LIST - (schneider@klingklang.de) Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Really-From: Florian Schneider-Esleben >> 2) Kraftwerk are considering an offer to become a cabaret act. The >> information source has suggested that Kraftwerk may move to Las Vegas >> and become a novelty act. It is possible that topless girls will >> appear alongside the Kraftwerk robots - a true spectacle!! >> >> I think 2 is rather unlikely!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >As always, silence is rewarded with falsities. > I WOULD like to draw everyones attention to the above e-mail address. Does anyone yet know if this is a hoax, or is Florian Schneider actually on the list. If he is maybe we can have a meaningful discussion with kraftwerk rather than the usual mix of nonsense and rumours which usually apppear. I suggest we question this guy to ascertain whether he is genuine or not. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 17:07:40 +0100 Subject: IS FLORIAN ON THIS LIST? Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) I have just tried e-mailing the guy who claims to be Florian Schneider. Unfortunately the e-mail was bounced back to me with the message 'Unknown address'. I can only assume this guy is a hoax. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 04 May 96 12:51:45 EDT Subject: Re: IS FLORIAN ON THIS LIST - (schneider@klingklang.de) Really-From: Mark Stagg <101706.1667@CompuServe.COM> "Brian Gaze"...or *should* I say schneider@klingklang.de...? :0) DR NEMESIS ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 19:08:01 +0000 Subject: "Nachrichten" / "News" Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de Some time ago I transcribed and translated the track "Nachrichten" from the "Radioactivity" album for possible use in a future issue of the Aktivitaet fanzine. Since some people on this list have asked for the meaning of these lyrics in the past, it seems as if there is a certain interest in such a transcription/translation, so I thought that I could post it to the list as well. I was not able to understand everything, but maybe someone else is able to fill some of the gaps? Corrections are also welcome. Transcription: Hier ist der Westdeutsche Rundfunk mit Nachrichten. Fuenfzig Atomkraftwerke sollen in der Bundesrepublik waehrend der naechsten zehn Jahre errichtet werden. Jedes einzelne kann eine Millionenstadt mit Strom versorgen. 1985 soll in der Bundesrepublik [...] Der Norddeutsche Rundfunk sendet Nachrichten. [...] sind nun schon 355 Atomreaktoren in Betrieb oder im Bau. Nach den Planzielen der Atombefuerworter sollen es um die Jahrtausendwende bereits mehr als zweitausend sein. Hier ist der Bayerische Rundfunk mit den Nachrichten. Der [...] Technologie der Nachkriegszeit [...] Raumfahrt [...] Hier ist Radio Bremen, wir bringen die Nachrichten. [...] Uranbrennstoffe [...] Reaktoren gebaut, sind zumindest so begrenzt wie ihre Reserven. Die derzeit bekannten Uranvorkommen reichen gerade aus, die schon im Betrieb oder im Bau befindlichen Reaktoren fuer eine Betriebszeit von etwa 40 Jahren zu versorgen. Translation: Here is the West German Broadcasting Corporation with the News. Fifty atomic power stations are planned to be built in Western Germany within the next ten years. Each one is able to supply a city of millions with current. [...] 1985 [...] in Western Germany[ ...] The North German Broadcasting Corporation brings the News. [...] are now already 355 atomic reactors in use or under construction. According to the plans of the atom lobby, the number shall be bigger than 2000 at the turn of the century. Here is the Bavarian Broadcasting Corporation with the News. The [...] post-war technology [...] space flight [...] Here is Radio Bremen, we bring the News. Uranium fuels [...] built reactors [...] are at least as limited as their reserves. The currently known Uranium founds are just enough to provide the working reactors and the ones still under construction for 40 years of operation. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 19:08:02 +0000 Subject: "NEU! komplett" Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de "NEU!", "NEU! 2" and "NEU! 75" have been re-bootlegged as a Double-CD: "NEU! komplett". This release seems to be from the same "company" who did also the original NEU! bootlegs. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 19:08:02 +0000 Subject: Harmonia CD's Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de Both Harmonia releases are currently available as CD's. The "Deluxe" CD is quite obviously a bootleg, but the "Musik von Harmonia" CD looks very professional. Is it an official release, or is it also a bootleg? Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 13:23:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Harmonia CD's Really-From: Curryous@aol.com Musik von Harmonia was released officially by Metronome in Hamburg. Harmonia de Luxe is a bootleg. We are planning a compilation release of Harmonia material with bonus Harmonia tracks for probable release in 1997. Russ Curry Curious Music ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 14:16:11 -0600 (MDT) Subject: IS FLORIAN ON THIS LIST - (schneider@klingklang.de) Really-From: "Lazlo Nibble" > I WOULD like to draw everyones attention to the above e-mail address. Does > anyone yet know if this is a hoax, or is Florian Schneider actually on the > list. Why don't you ask one of your "sources", Brian? You seem to be willing to believe anything else they tell you. No, it's not Florian Schneider. It's a forgery. - -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 00:20:03 +0000 Subject: Re: Amazing sounds Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de > PS further thoughts on the astounding sounds of Florian's flute... > > "RUCKZUCK" from the Cologne Radio Show CD, 1975... > > my last message was TRYING to say about Florian making snare drum sounds > come out of his flute during "RUCKZUCK", simultaneously with the normal > I had been rather confused as to how Wolfgang and Karl had managed > to play all the glockenspiel and electronic drum parts between the 2 > of them... Maybe this was playback? It is witnessed that they used backing tapes during that period. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 01:44:25 +0200 Subject: schneider@klingklang.de hoax Really-From: Paulo Mouat >> I WOULD like to draw everyones attention to the above e-mail address. >> Does anyone yet know if this is a hoax, or is Florian Schneider >> actually on the list. > > Why don't you ask one of your "sources", Brian? You seem to be > willing to believe anything else they tell you. > > No, it's not Florian Schneider. It's a forgery. Yes, it is a forgery. I am the author of it. I regret having made a joke out of this, and especially on you, the collectively 'serious' members of this list. On the contrary, I do not regret having shocked Brian (his repeated posts prove this), who for one is himself a forger of interviews, taking advantage of the less-aware members. Explaining the contradictions on his alleged interview would be an exercise on pedantry, so I shall avoid it here. I publicly admit I was a bit out of line with this. But may this purposeful blatancy warn the less-aware list members of the easiness with which one can fake virtually anything. So Brian, did you like those fractions of a second when you first read, and believed, that Florian Schneider was on this list? That's precisely what you are causing the unaware. Feel free to flame me, I really don't care... You can't flame my KW CDs, so everything is perfectly fine. "As always, silence is rewarded with falsities." Cheers to you all! And sorry... - -- ********************************* Paulo Mouat, mouat@telepac.pt ********************************* ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 18:45:14 -0700 Subject: Re: "NEU! komplett" Really-From: taoifei@ix.netcom.com (Frank J. Pfeiffer) Sam Goodies don't carry them. Are they only available in UK & DE ??? You wrote: > - ------- majordomo@cs.uwp.edu that the available list. - ------- >Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de > > > >"NEU!", "NEU! 2" and "NEU! 75" have been re-bootlegged as a >Double-CD: "NEU! komplett". >This release seems to be from the same "company" who did also the >original NEU! bootlegs. > > Klaus Zaepke > ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 20:03:13 -0700 Subject: CD Link Really-From: Luther Welsh Hello Friends (minus one) -- TTBOMK, this hasn't been mentioned on this list yet. There is a web browser add-on called CD Link. It allows a HTML document access to the user's CD ROM drive. For example, I own Orbital's Snivilisation CD. I just pop it in the ol' drive and go to http://hyperreal.com/music/artists/orbital/epcdlink.html Here is CD Link's page: http://www.voyagerco.com/cdlink/cdlink.html Any of you creative types want to do some KW pages? But I wonder how well CD Link will work with re-releases, though. - --Luke http://www.scruznet.com/~luke | Luke Welsh | "Ich bin Ihr Diener und Ihr Herr zugleich" | | luke@scruznet.com | <"I am both your servant and your master"> | | luke@svpal.org | Kraftwerk, The Voice Of Energy | ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #554 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #555 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Monday, 6 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 555 Childish antics of the KW list... Aktivitaet 4 - KLEM interview with Ralf Huetter, 13.11.91 Re: Amazing sounds with Florian's flute Re: IS FLORIAN ON THIS LIST - (schneider@klingklang.de) Re: The Mix Me probs! Vangelis Married? Vangelis ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 13:38:01 -0400 Subject: Childish antics of the KW list... Really-From: Frank Moriarty After having enjoyed being part of the hey-joe Jimi Hendrix group, I was excited to learn about the Kraftwerk list. Here, I thought, would be a good opportunity to learn more about some musicians whose works have fascinated me for some time. Instead, in between the occasional interesting exchanges of information (for example, the John Shilcock concert review posted yesterday), I've seen a continual stream of flames, accusations, and hoaxes in the few weeks I've been reading these messages. I suppose with Hendrix being dead it eliminates the hoax aspects, but that list is dedicated to discussing the music of Hendrix and the appearance of new live and studio recordings, offers to exchange tapes of rare recordings, reviews of books and articles, etc. etc. Owing to the technical aspects of Kraftwerk's body of work, I thought the discussions on the KW list would be at least as interesting if not more so. Instead a lot of people on this list act like they're about six years old, bragging about how their published rumors have turned out to be true or posting more lies to "get" others who posted earlier lies. This is pathetic, and I'm sure if Ralf and Florian were so desperate to find something to do that they were reading this junk they'd agree. Frank ************************************************** * I want to hear and see everything... * * * * -- Jimi Hendrix * ************************************************** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 05 May 96 15:01:47 EDT Subject: Aktivitaet 4 - KLEM interview with Ralf Huetter, 13.11.91 Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> An interview with Ralf Huetter - 13.11.91 by Frits Couwenberg of KLEM magazine. Aktivitaet 4 - August 1993 Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The interview with Ralf Huetter which follows was originally published in issue 59 of KLEM magazine and conducted backstage after Kraftwerk's concert in Utrecht, Holland on 13.11.91. We have managed to have an English translation made and so here we reprint this interview with Ralf Huetter's customary mixture of interesting, intriguing and/or infuriatingly oblique answers. (IAC) With much thanks for co-operation from EMI Netherlands, I was given a photo-pass and backstage-pass for the Kraftwerk concert at the Vredenburg (Utrecht venue) on 13.11.91. After the concert, I was given about fifteen minutes for an exclusive interview with Ralf Huetter, the spokesman of the quartet. Before the concert, I had the opportunity to take a few pictures behind the stage set of the robots. Ralf was in attendance to point out that they did not wish anybody to take pictures too close to the equipment in case any labels or makes were recognised. He himself did not want to be photographed, why this was so was not made clear. This was actually the third time I have had the chance to see behind the Kraftwerk stage set and to speak with Ralf. The first two times were back in 1981, in London and also Utrecht. What struck me about the attitude of the group members then (1981) and now (1991) was that they tended not to act so robotic as before. You could also hear the other three band members talk amongst themselves. Even Ralf made some conversation with the representatives from the record company. By the time the interview was underway, I had given Ralf some KLEM articles, which he was reading with some interest. He seemed to find the articles quite amusing. I also told him of the KLEM Days (conventions) and I had already invited him to attend our 1992 KLEM Day. He reacted to this positively. Further in our conversation we mentioned Christopher Franke (ex-Tangerine Dream). Ralf wanted to know what he was currently doing. And now, onto the interview... FRITS COUWENBERG; You put a lot of energy into your music and this is used by many others. They take samples or do something else with it. Does this hurt? I take it that they do this without any conscience? RALF HUETTER; "Most of the time they are short extracts, milliseconds, samples which are changed. If they are longer passages, whole sequences or whole phrases, then they breach copyright. Whether it hurts depends on what they do with it. There are some excellent records, where some good experiments have been done." FC; And there are also people who make bootlegs of your music. I had been given the idea that you are somewhat proud of the bootlegs that have been made, or am I wrong? RH; "It always happens. We are strict about cameras and tape recorders in the venue, because it is a high quality radio hall where microphones are installed for many purposes. And the concert could be recorded. The music is there and the concert it is gone..." FC; For which public is your music aimed? Do you have a particular market? RH; "No, of course not. We always make electronic music for everybody. Electronic *volksmusik* (folk music)." FC; There was once a 12" single by The Dominas. Were you involved with this? Did you compose this? RH; "No. The Dominas make their own music. Dominas are naturally dominant. They are friends of ours. We have no musical connections. Dominas work independently, Dominas are always dominant and independent." ** ** Those interested may wish to check digest no 2.548 for another Aktivitaet article called 'The Mysterious Dominas' which gives some more info on this release. FC; Is there a connection between the music which Kraftwerk create and the music which is produced similarly for the record industry? Jarre, Schulze, Kitaro, Tangerine Dream... RH; "Especially in electronic music there is a common language, a way of production. Everybody seems to find their own sound in some way through those channels. The electronic music is so intense, just as an X-ray. Everybody creates their own sound in electronic music. This is most apparent in electronic music." FC; What was the reason why Karl Bartos and Wolfgang Fluer left the band? I heard a rumour that Wolfgang Fluer had died... RH; "No. I have not seen him for a long time, but ... More I do not wish to say." FC; And you were also joined by Fernando, but he has also departed. Are you trying to find a good working format for the group, or are you now a stable quartet? RH; "This is always changing. We have always worked with various musicians and engineers. Together on computer programmes and ideas. Video projects for example and also other projects. Computer speech and computer graphics. We don't always make music, we work with many different people, who rely on other projects. Just like a film, relying on the projects we do. For the summer tour, a friend of ours, Fernando, worked with us and now for the whole winter we are on tour." FC; Will there be any releases from these other projects, or are they for personal use? RH; "There will be no releases, this is only for Kraftwerk. For other things we have no time." FC; You have been working for some time on this record ('The Mix'), putting in many hours. I can understand that the listeners do not realise how much work has gone into this. Is it worth all the hard work that you put in? RH; "To us it is. This is our work. Sometimes things go quicker and other times, projects go slower, it differs. That is something you can't define." FC; The releases do not appear to be very frequent. Is there much material that we will never hear? RH; "No. We do not have much music around. We have no archive tapes as such. Actually, only the music on which we work." FC; This evening again - the computer was the focal point during the concert. Isn't a computer an everyday object, such as a wastepaper bin or a television or an amplifier? Something which everyone has at home... RH; "Yes!" FC; Wouldn't it be logical to undertake a new theme, such as 'virtual reality', 'racism' or 'individuality of the people'. Ten years ago computers showed people their future in the mirror. Isn't this theme looking back? RH; "There are always new themes. I think that the networking with computers is just beginning. This was the first wave in the music. Now you get a new following. New sound creation. No more tapes, everything is digital, computerised. This is a new step in information systems. But, naturally, you could always work on other themes. We work on different ideas. FC; A new record by yourselves will have a new theme? RH; "That also!" FC; Could you say something more about this? RH; "No, that is still too early to comment on. Music is a certainty, but what is reality in music? I think that the music in the years ahead will develop as an art. The robots are only just learning how to move, but the music always moves. The performing arts have discovered that man can move in the direction of music. Time and motion, and this is happening in the present day. But what you have mentioned are current themes." FC; I would like to see your Kling Klang studio. RH; "That was on-stage. Only the walls are in Duesseldorf. We work there intensively and all manner of things happen there. That is where we retire." FC; So, after the tour you immediately start work? RH; "Yes, but also on tour. During the afternoon we sit in the studio on-stage and work. Throughout, new things, the music continually changes. Through chance, through everything..." FC; Many thanks for this interview! Stichting KLEM can be contacted at the following address; Stichting KLEM, Amstelsingel 7, 4105 GZ Culemborg, The Netherlands. Many thanks to both Frits, for allowing us to re-distribute this interview, and Andrew for providing the translation. - - END -- ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 21:28:46 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Amazing sounds with Florian's flute Really-From: David Davis > "RUCKZUCK" from the Cologne Radio Show CD, 1975... > > my last message was TRYING to say about Florian making snare drum sounds > come out of his flute during "RUCKZUCK", simultaneously with the normal flute riff... > Previously I had been rather confused as to how Wolfgang and Karl had managed to play all the glockenspiel and electronic drum parts between the 2 > of them... > > Maybe this was playback? It is witnessed that they used backing tapes > during that period. > > Klaus Zaepke Actually, I have it on good authority now that the effect is purely acoustical, it's just a breathing technique (probably enhanced slightly by the microphone/amplification used). Still sounds brilliant, though! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 15:32:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: IS FLORIAN ON THIS LIST - (schneider@klingklang.de) Really-From: Brendan Heading >>Really-From: Florian Schneider-Esleben >>> 2) Kraftwerk are considering an offer to become a cabaret act. The >>> information source has suggested that Kraftwerk may move to Las Vegas >>> and become a novelty act. It is possible that topless girls will >>> appear alongside the Kraftwerk robots - a true spectacle!! >>> >>> I think 2 is rather unlikely!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >> >>As always, silence is rewarded with falsities. >> >I WOULD like to draw everyones attention to the above e-mail address. Does >anyone yet know if this is a hoax, or is Florian Schneider actually on the >list. If he is maybe we can have a meaningful discussion with kraftwerk >rather than the usual mix of nonsense and rumours which usually apppear. >I suggest we question this guy to ascertain whether he is genuine or not. >Brian You're complaining about fake posts! I've just done a ping on the hostname and it doesn't exist. Do you really think Florian would be that open about his net presence ? He could be a member of the list and we wouldn't know it! |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| -- I didn't want to make music. I didn't want to be a robot, even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years..." --Wolfgang Fleur, leaving Kraftwerk in 1990. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 15:33:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: The Mix Really-From: Brendan Heading >-- Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com >I agree! I can understand why prople don't like The Mix, but I for one find >it terrific. It seems to me to be Kraftwerk's way of saying, "see, we can >keep up with the electronic musical tide, and do the electro-techno-dance >thing--better than all the rest of you!" Nah - I think it's "See, we can't think of any thing original so we'll just do what everyone else is doing to get some record sales". |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| -- I didn't want to make music. I didn't want to be a robot, even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years..." --Wolfgang Fleur, leaving Kraftwerk in 1990. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 15:47:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Me probs! Really-From: Brendan Heading There appears to have been lots of trubbs - I haven't posted any nasty messages or audio files or anything like that. Somebody's mailed me about it, I dunno what was going on. |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| -- I didn't want to make music. I didn't want to be a robot, even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years..." --Wolfgang Fleur, leaving Kraftwerk in 1990. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 15:50:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Vangelis Really-From: Brendan Heading Fellow KW and Vangelis fans : I've been discussing with Dave about the possibility of a Vangelis list and he said he'd be willing to do it. So if Vangelis fans would mail Dave at : datta@cs.uwp.edu and put Vangelis Mailing List in your subject line he'll consider setting it up. Send him a wee thanks message with it too :) |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| -- I didn't want to make music. I didn't want to be a robot, even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years..." --Wolfgang Fleur, leaving Kraftwerk in 1990. |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| -- I didn't want to make music. I didn't want to be a robot, even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years..." --Wolfgang Fleur, leaving Kraftwerk in 1990. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 5 May 96 17:36:46 -0400 Subject: Married? Really-From: "Bruce M. Lloyd" All, Does anyone know the marital status of the Kraftwerk members? Are they married? Have kids? Just some lazy Sunday afternoon thoughts... __ Bruce M. Lloyd bml@bgi.on.ca BGI SI Markham Ontario Canada "Create like a God, Command like a King, and Work like a slave" Brancusi ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 20:14:36 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Vangelis Really-From: "Lazlo Nibble" > I've been discussing with Dave about the possibility of a Vangelis list and he > said he'd be willing to do it. You may not be aware that there's already a Vangelis mailing list. You can join by emailing listserv@kendaco.telebyte.com with the command subscribe youraddresshere direct in the message body. I don't really see much point in there being more than one list. - -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #555 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #556 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 7 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 556 German versions of Kraftwerk albums Re: Childish antics of the KW list... Re: Married? Re: The Mix Re: The Mix Re: The Mix Bartos & OMD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:58:31 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: German versions of Kraftwerk albums Really-From: Aart_Jan van Amerongen Hello, I wonder if someone in the vicinity of Holland could record the German versions of TEE, Electric Cafe and 'the Mix' for me on a cassette tape. All expenses will be covered of course. Or if someone has these these items available on record or CD for a reasonable price (the import prices for German CD's in Holland are surprising...) that would be fine as well! Thank you, Aart-Jan. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:56:11 +0100 Subject: Re: Childish antics of the KW list... Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >I've seen a continual stream of flames, accusations, and hoaxes in the few >weeks I'vebeen reading these messages. I suppose with Hendrix being dead it Unfortunately I think this reflects the frustration many members feel at the lack of new material. What is worse is the continual speculation that after 6 years of silence what will follow is more rehasing of old material. With Hendrix you obviously aren't likely to hear rumours of his imminent comeback. >Hendrix and the appearance of new live and studio recordings, offers to >exchange tapes of rare recordings, reviews of books and articles, etc. etc. There is often exchange of albums etc on this list. As well as help with actually finding rare material and evaluating its quality. >Instead a lot of people on this list act like they're about six years old, >bragging about how their published rumors have turned out to be true or >posting more lies to "get" others who posted earlier lies. This is a value judgement rather than a statement of fact. However I do agree that recently things have got a little out of hand. But it is generally good humoured, unlike some other lists I've seen which are rather hostile. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:59:35 +0100 Subject: Re: Married? Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Does anyone know the marital status of the Kraftwerk members? Are they >married? Have kids? > This depends on who you believe. I'm not going to speculate any further on this as I'm not sure. Beware of any answers which claim to be certain on this subject. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 18:30:13 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Re: The Mix Really-From: Iggy Drougge On Sun, 5 May 1996, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > Really-From: Brendan Heading > > > >-- Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com > > > >I agree! I can understand why prople don't like The Mix, but I for one find > >it terrific. It seems to me to be Kraftwerk's way of saying, "see, we can > >keep up with the electronic musical tide, and do the electro-techno-dance > >thing--better than all the rest of you!" > > Nah - I think it's "See, we can't think of any thing original so we'll just do > what everyone else is doing to get some record sales". Ralf (?) said that they did it for themselves, so as to try to do something with their new computerised studio, and tried their hand at some old songs, should we take his word? =-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=->X<-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+- // Mail: optimus@canit.se Y Transformer collector| // \X/ Mail: unniggy@algonet.se | Amiga user | \X/ WWW: http://www.canit.se/~optimus | Sonic Code: Sal+++!^ |SWEDEN RULES!!! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 14:36:32 -0400 Subject: Re: The Mix Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com To each his own.... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 15:34:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: The Mix Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >> Nah - I think it's "See, we can't think of any thing original so we'll just >>do what everyone else is doing to get some record sales". >Ralf (?) said that they did it for themselves, so as to try to do >something with their new computerised studio, and tried their hand >at some old songs, should we take his word? Although I do not know Ralf and Florian personally, my own speculation is that they released 'The Mix' for the following reason: They certainly spent a long period of time remodeling Kling Klang studios and updating it. All of the old songs had to be translated into digital in order to make themselves compatible with the new and improved Kling Klang. So, after taking so much time to rework all their old material, they probably felt that it was fair time to be repaid for all that effort by releasing it as an album, or as Ralf puts it, 'a live album'. I feel that 'The Mix' is both a retrospective and a look into the future. Here's how Ralf Hutter described 'The Mix': "The Mix, for example, was old material but it was working to digital for the first time...And now the recording is completely digital, with the studio set up for a modular console and re-programming, and putting all our sounds onto digital media...So, we mixed it around, digitized the recordings - the original tracks - and as a documentation of this part of the work in the studio we put out 'The Mix'. It's a mix of our developments - - then and now - with a lot of literal studio mixing involved - channels, sequencers, tracks." So, in essence, I do not believe that Ralf & Florian have ever put a record out simply because they needed to or because they were all concerned with record sales. True, all musical artists are concerned with the sale of their record, but I don't think that was ever the main motivating factor behind the release of any of KW's albums, including 'The Mix'. I find that 'The Mix' contains just as much creativity and nuance as its predecessors, and perhaps makes as bold a statement as well regarding the state of change over the course of time. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Hier spricht die Stimme der Energie..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 19:12:15 +0000 Subject: Bartos & OMD Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" The following is taken from http://www.accessone.com/~fester/news.htm. Klaus Zaepke All information here has come from sources close to the band in the UK and will be updated and corrected as new informatin becomes available. The latest official OMD newsheet (Jan.1996) has just been released in the UK. [...] Latest news from sources in the UK is that the new album, "Universal" won't be released until September of 1996. This news has been confirmed by Andy himself. There is no release date set for a single that I know of. [...] Here are some more words from Andy on the new album, "Universal," which were taken from the OMD information newsheets in late 1994 and early 1995 "At the beinning of November (1994) I finally submitted my demos to Virgin who were really excited about what they perceived to be a new direction. Many of the songs are more organic and powerful. I've been using less electronic sounds, especially drums, and have been writing songs with unusual textures. Maybe the music is less techno-pop but the melodies are still strong. I am increasingly excited about the way the album is progressing. It is really going to sound different. Two years ago I wrote a song with ex-Kraftwerk member Karl Bartos called "Kissing the Machine" which appeared on his band's album "Esperanto." In October (1994), Karl returned the favor by coming o Ireland and writing with me. One song is definitely completed- a powerful and beautiful piece called "The Moon and the Sun."[...]" ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #556 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #557 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 8 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 557 kraftwerk.de and kraftwerk.com domains kraftwerk.de Hendrix vs. Kraftwerk Read: kraftwerk.de and kraftwerk.com dom Re: The Mix Sorry all.... Lida: kraftwerk.de and kraftwerk.com domains ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 15:51:40 +-200 Subject: kraftwerk.de and kraftwerk.com domains Really-From: Andreas Kuckartz The domains kraftwerk.de and kraftwerk.com are used by a german publishing company named "MacUp" for several months now. This company has nothing to do with the music group. (If you send them a mail and ask why they are using the name of a music group: send a BCC-copy to me :-) Andreas begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A8*`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`" !```!````# ````,``# '````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```$<`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!K``(P`0````4` M``!33510`````!X``S !````%0```&MR869T=V5R:T!C``$P`0```!<````G:W)A9G1W97)K0&-S+G5W M<"YE9'4G```"`0LP`0```!H```!33510.DM204945T522T!#4RY55U N1415 M`````P``.0`````+`$ Z`0````(!]@\!````! ````````D!P M:6YG+F1E```#``80!J_D(P,`!Q#F````'@`($ $```!E````5$A%1$]-04E. M4TM204945T522T1%04Y$2U)!1E1715)+0T]-05)%55-%1$)904=%4DU!3E!5 M0DQ)4TA)3D=#3TU004Y93D%-140B34%#55 B1D]24T5615)!3$U/3E1(4TY/ M5P`````"`0D0`0```(4!``"!`0``4 (``$Q:1G6MAI[Q_P`*`0\"%0*H!>L" M@P!0`O()`@!C: K 1X`(&<$D%D#@G!U`F $`&@+@&>6(![Q"K!N']!N M80> "1XP(DT`T%5P(B"W`A %P!&P=@20!T @!&"%`C!H!"!N;W 1`#T``0````$`````````_, ` ` end ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 14:20:31 +0200 Subject: kraftwerk.de Really-From: aart_jan@sara.nl (Aart-Jan van Amerongen) If you look at the attachment it seems a 'false alarm' that kraftwerk has its own domain... Greetings! Aart-Jan. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 08:51:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Hendrix vs. Kraftwerk Really-From: Jason Musser >Unfortunately I think this reflects the frustration many members feel at the >lack of new material. What is worse is the continual speculation that after >6 years of silence what will follow is more rehasing of old material. With >Hendrix you obviously aren't likely to hear rumours of his imminent >comeback. Jimi Hendrix dead is about ten times more prolific than Kraftwerk alive. He sure releases a lot of new albums for someone who's dead... It would have been interesting to see if Jimi would ever have paid any attention to Kraftwerk. Seems like Jimi and Ralf and Florian would have some common interests. (Have you ever been to Electric Ladyland Cafe?) - -Jason ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 10:03:31 -0400 Subject: Read: kraftwerk.de and kraftwerk.com dom Really-From: MATLAN@muze.com (MATTHEW LANDOLF) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 16:15:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: The Mix Really-From: Brendan Heading >> >I agree! I can understand why prople don't like The Mix, but I for one >> >find it terrific. It seems to me to be Kraftwerk's way of saying, "see, we >> >can keep up with the electronic musical tide, and do the >> >electro-techno-dance thing--better than all the rest of you!" >> >> Nah - I think it's "See, we can't think of any thing original so we'll just >> do what everyone else is doing to get some record sales". >Ralf (?) said that they did it for themselves, so as to try to do >something with their new computerised studio, and tried their hand >at some old songs, should we take his word? Hmm. It's hard to take anybody's f**king word on this list these days... |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| -- I didn't want to make music. I didn't want to be a robot, even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years..." --Wolfgang Fleur, leaving Kraftwerk in 1987. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 16:22:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Sorry all.... Really-From: Brendan Heading I wasn't aware that another Vangelis list existed elsewhere, folks. It may be found by sending a message to.... listserv@kendaco.telebyte.com with --- subscribe yourname@youraddress direct Sorry to all for inconveniance caused by my shortsightedness. |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| -- I didn't want to make music. I didn't want to be a robot, even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years..." --Wolfgang Fleur, leaving Kraftwerk in 1987. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 21:35:51 -0300 Subject: Lida: kraftwerk.de and kraftwerk.com domains Really-From: Dante de Conti Neto - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3C67.600A33C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3C67.600A33C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjkBAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADACAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABrcmFmdHdlcmsgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0AFNNVFAAa3JhZnR3ZXJrQGNzLnV3cC5lZHUA AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABUAAABrcmFmdHdlcmtAY3MudXdwLmVkdQAA AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAZAAAAJ2tyYWZ0d2VyayBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QnAAAA AAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6S1JBRlRXRVJLQENTLlVXUC5FRFUAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAA AgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAr42AQiABwAgAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLlJlYWQgUmVjZWlw dAADCwEKgAEAIQAAAEFDMzgxQkMwNTJBN0NGMTFBNDY3NDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAOMGAQSAAQAtAAAA TGlkYToga3JhZnR3ZXJrLmRlIGFuZCBrcmFmdHdlcmsuY29tIGRvbWFpbnMAWBABBYADAA4AAADM BwUABwAVACMAMwACAEwBASCAAwAOAAAAzAcFAAcAFQAjADMAAgBMAQEJgAEAIQAAAEY0MEQxRUZC NEVBOENGMTE5RjBGNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwACAHAQOQBgBoAgAAEwAAAAMAJgAAAAAAQAAyAMBP8E52 PLsBQAA5AMBP8E52PLsBAgFDAAEAAABJAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAa3JhZnR3 ZXJrIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdABTTVRQAGtyYWZ0d2Vya0Bjcy51d3AuZWR1AAAAAB4ARAABAAAAFwAA AGtyYWZ0d2VyayBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QAAB4ASQABAAAAJwAAAGtyYWZ0d2Vyay5kZSBhbmQga3Jh ZnR3ZXJrLmNvbSBkb21haW5zAAACAUwAAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABr cmFmdHdlcmsgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0AFNNVFAAa3JhZnR3ZXJrQGNzLnV3cC5lZHUAAAAAHgBNAAEA AAAXAAAAa3JhZnR3ZXJrIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdAAAQABOAIC1ICdTO7sBQABVAIBR5wsGPLsBHgBw AAEAAAAnAAAAa3JhZnR3ZXJrLmRlIGFuZCBrcmFmdHdlcmsuY29tIGRvbWFpbnMAAAIBcQABAAAA FgAAAAG7O1Mm9cAbOLOnUhHPpGdERVNUAAAAAB4AdAABAAAAFwAAACdrcmFmdHdlcmtAY3MudXdw LmVkdScAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAYAAAAaWRtdXNpY0BudXRlY25ldC5j b20uYnIAHgABEAEAAAAWAAAATWVuc2FnZW0gZm9pIGxpZGEgZW06AAAAQAAHMAAo5052PLsBQAAI MAAo5052PLsBHgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAHGa - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3C67.600A33C0-- ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #557 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #558 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 8 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 558 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 08:01:00 -0400 Subject: Jimi and Kraftwerk Really-From: Frank Moriarty Jason Musser wrote: >Jimi Hendrix dead is about ten times more prolific than Kraftwerk alive. >He sure releases a lot of new albums for someone who's dead... That's what happens when those who control music have a greater financial interest than they do an artistic interest. The same material has been released in multiple formats while a lot of interesting recordings have only come out on bootlegs. With control of the estate just returned to the Hendrix family after a very long court battle, it remains to be seen what they'll do with all of the master tapes containing unissued material. >It would have been interesting to see if Jimi would ever have paid any >attention to Kraftwerk. Seems like Jimi and Ralf and Florian would have >some common interests. (Have you ever been to Electric Ladyland Cafe?) Of course it's all speculation, but the idea of Hendrix showing an interest in Kraftwerk isn't too hard to accept. Hendrix, throughout his brief career, was always extremely interested in the latest developments in recording equipment and sound processing. Some of his later recordings - released on tapes or bootlegs - show him further pushing sonic explorations. So an interest in the technical work of Kraftwerk might have been a real possibility had Jimi lived. Imagine a hybrid instrumental work with the precision of Kraftwerk and the improvisation of Hendrix - an intriguing thought! Regards, Frank ************************************************** * I want to hear and see everything... * * * * -- Jimi Hendrix * ************************************************** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 15:56:05 +-200 Subject: Re: kraftwerk.de and kraftwerk.com domains (kraftwerk.com still existing) Really-From: Andreas Kuckartz > ... a 'false alarm' ... Funny, www.kraftwerk.de was existing a few days ago. No it is gone. But www.kraftwerk.com is still existing. (At least it was a few hours ago.) So perhaps mail to postmaster@kraftwerk.com or webmaster@kraftwerk.com will be read by someone. As I have written before the MacUp publishing company which "owns" the domain has nothing to do with any musicgroup in Duesseldorf. Andreas begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C .`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`" !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```$<`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!K``(P`0````4` M``!33510`````!X``S !````%0```&MR869T=V5R:T!C``$P`0```!<````G:W)A9G1W97)K0&-S+G5W M<"YE9'4G```"`0LP`0```!H```!33510.DM204945T522T!#4RY55U N1415 M`````P``.0`````+`$ Z`0````(!]@\!````! ````````,:-0$(@ <`& `` M`$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`02 `0!*````4F4Z(&MR869T M=V5R:RYD92!A;F0@:W)A9G1W97)K+F-O;2!D;VUA:6YS("AK8\NP$>`' ``0`` M`"<```!KD!P:6YG+F1E M```#``80' ;1E@,`!Q _`0``'@`($ $```!E````049!3%-%04Q!4DU&54Y. M62Q75U=+4D%&5%=%4DM$15=!4T5825-424Y'049%5T1!65-!1T].3TE425-' M3TY%0E545U=72U)!1E1715)+0T]-25-35$E,3$5825-424Y'*$%43 `````" M`0D0`0```/\!``#[`0``'P,``$Q:1G6I8%*"_P`*`0\"%0*H!>L"@P!0`O() M`@!C: K P0J%"H5&=4!N;GDL('X$YO(&E+!4 $`" FP&YE M(L9";G4%0"0L!:!M)U(EH6PG`R E=A[@*$$%0&QEWR5 )T$H<25!)@1H"&$F ME&HI"H53)Q!P!) 1@'#7!" `P ,1="V!;Q/ `,"Y$\%R0"C2G0`W!E)ZD*A4'E!"!)+$!A=B41!1 "0%\)\#(A M`A 8<"Y@:"#@36D`T%5P+9!U`F $`&A_)<(I<0JP(^ D$#;0$7 @J")O=P" M(C7#9 -Q]PN -($$(&X@$#;3+G$XL$\QT370(& W<6UU`)!C;PG "& V4#CQ M1 I0!!!EDFPXL')F,UYN9#)A%G,BW!>1`#[@``,`$! $`````P`1$ ````! M```#T``0````4```!293H@`````+/P ` end ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 13:36:27 +-200 Subject: Lesebestatigung: kraftwerk.de and kraftwerk.com domains Really-From: Andreas Kuckartz begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@X.`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`" !```!````# ````,``# "````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```$<`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!K``(P`0````4` M``!33510`````!X``S !````%0```&MR869T=V5R:T!C``$P`0```!<````G:W)A9G1W97)K0&-S+G5W M<"YE9'4G```"`0LP`0```!H```!33510.DM204945T522T!#4RY55U N1415 M`````P``.0`````+`$ Z`0````(!]@\!````! ````````(8-0$(@ <`( `` M`$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y296%D(%)E8V5I<'0``PL!"H !`"$```!! M0S,X,4)#,#4R03=#1C$Q030V-S0T-#4U,S4T,# P, #C!@$$@ $`. ```$QE M`'0``0```!<````G:W)A9G1W97)K0&-S+G5W<"YE M9'4G```>`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````$P```$$N2W5C:V%R M='I <&EN9RYD90``'@`!$ $````@````1&EE($YA8VAR:6-H="!W=7)D92!G M96QE`#T``0````$` (````````?IQM ` end ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 10:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Sorry all.... Really-From: gewither@mailbox.syr.edu (gewither) >|***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| >|***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| > -- I didn't want to make music. I didn't want to be a robot, > even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years..." > --Wolfgang Fleur, leaving Kraftwerk in 1987. Hey Brendan, Fluer is spelled "Fluer" not Fleur", I thought you might want to know. One Amiga freak helping out another. :) Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/950HD 030/882/17Mb 50Mhz //// makes A2386 & VGA & 150MB HD gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum 28/24 \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 CD-ROM ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 10:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Jimi and Kraftwerk Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu Jason Musser wrote: > >>Jimi Hendrix dead is about ten times more prolific than Kraftwerk alive. >>He sure releases a lot of new albums for someone who's dead... True, but these "new albums" for the most part are largely just re-issues, compilations, and tribute albums which pay homage to Hendrix now that he is no longer alive. Regarding prolifacy, Kraftwerk has had plenty of re-issues in plenty of countries (probably more than Hendrix), as well as being the subject of tribute albums as well, and the members of KW aren't even dead yet! Now that's what I call homage. :o) It also pays to mention that Hendrix, when he was recording (1967-1970) was about as productive as Kraftwerk were during the 70s. Hendrix put out 3 albums with the Jimi Hendrix Experience before his death, and several albums of his solo material were put together and released following his death as well as lots of best hits compilations, live albums, radio outtakes, and so on. I don't feel that the material actually produced by Hendrix during his life was by any means more abundant and plentiful than Kraftwerk's. His death was the only thing that boosted him to the status he now receives, and aided in expanding the list of Hendrix releases. Had Hendrix lived, there's no telling what would have happened to his music. As styles changed, Hendrix would most likely either have changed with it, or faded away into the background like many great classic rock bands. For all we know, Hendrix' career might have ended somewhere around the mid 70s, just as Kraftwerk's was beginning to reach its height. This is all just speculation naturally, and the loss of Hendrix has been a loss to the music world indeed. Coming from a big Hendrix fan (and left-handed Strat-playing musician coincidentally), I personally feel that KW and Hendrix were alike in many regards, particularly their radical and revolutionary contributions to the music of their respective times. I imagine that they would have respected each other a great deal for their mutual conceptualism. Just throw on some of Hendrix' more psychedelic material (like "Are You Experienced?"), and you'll find similarities: Hendrix' frequent use of guitar feedback for effect often produced sounds reminiscent of early Kraftwerk, a la "Strom", "Stratovarius", "Ruckstoss Gondolero", etc. Furthermore, Hendrix' use of backwards tape can be traced forward to the ending section of Kraftwerk's "Kristallo". Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "We start to move..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 11:03:47 -0400 Subject: comets/melodies Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com I find it rather funny that Pascal Bussy's book and many other sources say that side two of Autobahn drags on and is just not that listenable. I find the exact opposite - 2 of my fave KW songs are kometenmelodie(sp?) 1 and 2 and the darkness and beauty, respectively, of the last two are perfect. oh well, i guess im bored right now because i choose not to comment (read: ignore) the latest arguements over flames, pranks, etc. BTW - why do I see some people spell it Huetter and Hutter and Fluer or Flur????? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 16:50:40 +0000 Subject: Re: The Mix Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" > I do not believe that Ralf & Florian have ever put a record out > simply because they needed to or because they were all concerned > with record sales. True, all musical artists are concerned with > the sale of their record, but I don't think that was ever the > main motivating factor behind the release of any of KW's albums, > including 'The Mix'. This assumption is contradicted by a quote from Ralf Huetter, printed in Frontpage 7-8/1991, where he stated that the release of "The Mix" was mainly a move to minimize bootlegging during their forthcoming European tour. He said something like "We cannot tour without releasing an album, otherwise we would have hundreds of bootlegs." Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 17:14:09 +0000 Subject: Re: kraftwerk.de and kraftwerk.com Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" > > The domains kraftwerk.de and kraftwerk.com are used by a german > > publishing company named "MacUp" for several months now. > > This company has nothing to do with the music group. > > (If you send them a mail and ask why they are using the name of a music > > group: send a BCC-copy to me :-) > > If you look at the attachment it seems a 'false alarm' that kraftwerk has > its own domain... > >Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: kraftwerk.de: no > >data known) To: postmaster@kraftwerk.de No, the correct e-mail address is "webmaster@kraftwerk.com". I remember an article about this company (at least I think that it was the same company). From what I can remember, the domain is called "kraftwerk.de/com" since the company is located in an old power station. It was also written in this article that name of the company itself was initially "Kraftwerk", but that they had to change their name after someone sued them to do so. Unfortunately, it wasn't written *who* sued them, so we can only guess... ;-) Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 11:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: comets/melodies Really-From: "Gerald E. Withers" On Wed, 8 May 1996, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > BTW - why do I see some people spell it Huetter and Hutter and Fluer or > Flur????? > That is because some people don't have the german Umlauten. You know the "u" with the two dots over them. If you don't have it then the way to do it is "ue". Others are just to lazy to type that much and just drop the "e" Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/100HD 030/882/5Mb 50Mhz 401 Euclid Ave //// makes A2386 & VGA 150MB HD Syracuse N.Y. 13210 \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum 28/24 gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 12:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Sorry all.... Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >>Hey Brendan, Fluer is spelled "Fluer" not Fleur", I thought you might want to >>know. One Amiga freak helping out another. :) >BTW - why do I see some people spell it Huetter and Hutter and Fluer or >Flur????? In actuality, the name is really spelled "Flur" with an umlaut (diacritic mark) over the "u" for proper German pronunciation. The same is true for Ralf Hutter's name as well. In English, these names would be pronounced closest to "Fluer" as aforementioned, and "Huetter". Just as a note of interest on this subject, Pascal Bussy's book 'Man, Machine, and Music' always lists Ralf Hutter's name with the umlaut over the "u", but never lists Flur's name with the umlaut anywhere in the book. I'm not trying to suggest that this book is by any means a source of accurate information, as we know that accuracy may not necessarily be the book's forte. I just found it interesting. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Boing Boom Tschak..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 13:31:54 -0300 (EST) Subject: Re: kraftwerk.de and kraftwerk.com Really-From: Eduardo Marcel Macan > Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" 8<-- > was the same company). From what I can remember, the domain is called > "kraftwerk.de/com" since the company is located in an old power station. It > was also written in this article that name of the company itself was > initially "Kraftwerk", but that they had to change their name after someone > sued them to do so. Unfortunately, it wasn't written *who* sued them, > so we can only guess... ;-) 8<-- I think they had to give up their domain names too... % whois -h whois.internic.net kraftwerk No match for "KRAFTWERK". The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information (Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's). Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information. but the kraftwerk.de still exists... Eduardo Macan. macan@dcc.unicamp.br ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 12:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: The Mix Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >This assumption is contradicted by a quote from Ralf Huetter, printed >in Frontpage 7-8/1991, where he stated that the release of "The Mix" was >mainly a move to minimize bootlegging during their forthcoming >European tour. He said something like "We cannot tour without releasing an >album, otherwise we would have hundreds of bootlegs." True, but the Ralf Hutter's above statement is also contradicted in a couple of interview articles I have as well. The fact of the matter is, and it has been brought up here before, that Hutter has contradicted things he has said in interviews many times in the past. Regardless of this, Hutter's above statement does not negate the idea of KW having released 'The Mix' for artistic reasons. In Hutter's above statement, he expresses concern for possible bootlegging as a reason for releasing "The Mix". In other interviews that we have read out here, Hutter claimed that he is not opposed in the least to the idea of fans making bootleg recordings. Again, we see a contradiction. Nevertheless, even if bootlegging were an issue of concern which aided in furthering the release of "The Mix", it was not necessarily the main reason for going through with the project, though certainly a valid one. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Interpol and Deutsche Bank..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 13:06:05 -0400 Subject: Read: kraftwerk.de and kraftwerk.com domains Really-From: "Richard V. Paiement" begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@D1`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`" !```!````# ````,``# "````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```$<`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!K``(P`0````4` M``!33510`````!X``S !````%0```&MR869T=V5R:T!C``$P`0```!<````G:W)A9G1W97)K0&-S+G5W M<"YE9'4G```"`0LP`0```!H```!33510.DM204945T522T!#4RY55U N1415 M`````P``.0`````+`$ Z`0````(!]@\!````! ````````(8-0$(@ <`( `` M`$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y296%D(%)E8V5I<'0``PL!"H !`"$```!! M0S,X,4)#,#4R03=#1C$Q030V-S0T-#4U,S4T,# P, #C!@$$@ $`+0```%)E M860Z(&MR869T=V5R:RYD92!A;F0@:W)A9G1W97)K+F-O;2!D;VUA:6YS`%H0 M`06 `P`.````S <%``@`#0`&``4``P#[``$@@ ,`#@```,P'!0`(``T`!@`$ M``,`^@`!"8 !`"$```!",D,S-S,V1D%$03A#1C$Q.#$S-S P03 R-#(V-$$R M-0`'!P$#D 8`7 (``!,````#`"8``````$ `,@! 4#JD`#V[`4 `.0``3'2D M`#V[`0(!0P`!````1P````````"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&MR869T M=V5R:T!C`$T``0```!4` M``!K`' ``0```"<```!K# $` M```%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!0```!R:6-H87)D0&1G8G0N9&]C+F-A M`!X``1 !````%0```$UE 'The Kraftwerkers Guide to Vinyl LP Bootlegs' by John Shilcock Aktivitaet 4 - August 1993 Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * A bootleg is any record, CD or tape that has been issued illegally. They are issued without the permission of the artist or the company who owns the rights to the recordings they include. The term 'bootleg' is normally reserved for records which would normally contain unavailable material e.g. studio out-takes or live concert recordings. Bootlegs seemed to have started their lives back in the pre-war jazz scene when copy-right laws were not so strict as they are today. Initially bootleg material was of poor quality on inferior vinyl and came in plain white sleeves with white labels. However they have become more and more sophisticated and many are as attractive as official merchandise. Another type of bootleg material is the pirate or counterfeit. This is where official material is reproduced and passed on as originals. Although you may be tempted to buy a cassette at half price from someone in the street, more often than not you will be disappointed by the poor quality. These can be bought cheaply because there is no one else to pay. The original artists/companies will not see a penny. The only Kraftwerk item that I know of to be counterfeited is of the pre Kraftwerk LP 'Tone Float'. This first appeared a little while ago. The cover has a bad colour reproduction on the front and a black and white copy on the back. The labels in no way resemble the originals. Again the only people making the money here are the pirates. Various bootleg items come out under the banner of 'limited edition' and the like. I think you must treat statements like these with a pinch of salt. Bootlegs are produced illegally and sold illegally. All methods of trying to get you to part with your cash will be used and there is really no way of making a formal complaint. Many bootlegs have blank labels, no guarantee at all that what the record contains is what the record fair stall holder says is on it. Sometimes the same recording is sold under different titles or in different sleeves. Kraftwerk bootlegs seem to come in and out of the limelight in direct proportion to when they last did a gig. For example, there has been a great increase in the number of items that have been made available since 1991, especially in the CD line. Ralf Huetter is reported to have several Kraftwerk bootlegs and says they are fun. On the other hand he appears to be very upset about the mass produced 'Heute Abend' CD set, so his views are a little unclear on this subject. Below is a list of the Bootleg LPs that are available. These items are becoming much harder to find now and I suspect vinyl bootlegs will soon all but disappear as CD bootlegs become even less expensive to produce. COLOGNE - 12/06/71. Tracks; a) Vom Himmel Hoch(?), Ruckzuck, ??? b) ??? cont. This is a picture disk which has an orange cone on a white background, with 'Kraftwerk' across it in black. No cover. Bad sound quality throughout but does show what early Kraftwerk gigs would have been like - very noisy with lots of acoustic drums being bashed and cymbals being crashed and even electric guitars. Enough to put anyone off Kraftwerk. The track listing is vague; much of the contents seem to be improvised. (There appears to be three tracks on side 1 and one long one on side 2.) 'Ruckzuck' is recognisable as such in several places. The third track and maybe more is unknown to me., it sounds like one great long improvised heavy metal session. Nice if you like that sort of thing. Are there any Kraftwerk fans who like heavy metal? If so this should be right up their street! (It has been suggested, by several sources, that the first track is similar to 'Negativland' by NEU! and that the third track also has similarities to another NEU! track, 'Hallogallo'; but it does definitely have parts of 'Vom Himmel Hoch' mixed in. Also, Michael Rother is identifiable as the guitar player here. - IAC) There appears to be two issues of this. The first is purported to be a limited edition of 250 and is identifiable by the fact that the disks are numbered and have a black rim. The later issues have a clear rim and a numbered insert with additional info too. This is quite hard to get hold of, though I have seen several for sale over the years. Prices have ranged from L25 to L70. KOMETENMELODIE (Cologne 22/05/75) Tracks; a) Ruckzuck, Kometenmelodie I & II. b) Autobahn. Has a nice cover though nothing that makes it uniquely 'kraftwerk'. The front is black with lots of small white symbols over it with 3 white pictures of things that I can make neither head nor tail of. The back has a track listing and various erotic drawings - in no way can I relate them to the music. The sound quality is excellent and in stereo as I think it was taken from a radio broadcast. An attractive item. (There have since been a couple of straight copies from this LP on CD format. - IAC) Hard to get hold of as I think there are not too many around. If you can find one expect to pay L30+ for it. SECURITY DEVICE (Milan 1981) Tracks; a) Intro, Numbers, Computer World, Computer Love, Home Computer, The Model. b) Neon Lights, Geiger Counter, Radioactivity, The Voice of Energy, Ohm Sweet Ohm, Autobahn. c) Autobahn, Trans Europe Express, Hall of Mirrors. d) Showroom Dummies, Pocket Calculator, The Robots. Has a 'glossy' white cover with a picture/photo of a printed circuit board. On the back it has a track listing next to AppleMac computer graphics. The front cover has the text 'Promo record not for sale'. The LPs labels show the full track listing again with the computer graphics. The sound quality is very good / excellent. Another fairly common item that has been going around for a good few years. Keep your eyes open for it and a spare L20 to L30 in your pocket. TBON PABOTHNK (Munich 1981) Tracks; a) Intro, Nummern, Computerwelt, Computer Liebe, Heim Computer. b) Das Model, Neon Licht, Geiger Counter, Radioaktivitaet, Stimme der Energie, Ohm Sweet Ohm. c) Autobahn, Trans Europa Express. d) Spiegelglass, Schaufensterpupen, Taschenrechner, Die Roboter. A nice cover with the 'computer world' heads across the top and a drawn city skyline across the bottom. The same back and front. This record has been pressed in both orange vinyl and black. The labels are plain white. The quality of the original recording is not too hot, ranging from good to very good. A fairly common item a few years back, a little harder to get hold of now. L30 to L40. Also floating around are copies of these 2 LPs being sold separately under different titles. 'THE VOICE OF ENERGY' is one such example, featuring the first disc and 'AUTOBAHN' featuring part two, both with very poor sleeve designs. CENTRAL PASSAGE (Florence 19/05/81) Tracks; a) Intro, Numbers, Computer World, Home Computer, Its More Fun, Computer Love. b) The Model, Neon Lights, Geiger Counter, Radioactivity, Ohm Sweet Ohm. c) Autobahn, Trans Europe Express. d) Hall of Mirrors, Showroom Dummies, Pocket Calculator, The Robots. The front cover has a drawn picture of art deco cars. The back has several pictures. One has the group standing in front of some 'huts' another has the 'dummies' behind the Kling Klang consoles. The sound quality is excellent. Pocket Calculator has some of the lyrics sung in Italian. One of the more common bootleg Kraftwerk items. If you track one down expect to pay between L20 and L30 for a copy. COMPUTERWELT (London Hammersmith 03/07/81) Tracks; a) Intro, Numbers, Computer World, Computer Love. b) The Model, Neon Lights, Geiger Counter, Radioactivity. c) The Voice of Energy, Ohm Sweet Ohm, Autobahn (part I). d) Autobahn (part II), Hall of Mirrors, Showroom Dummies. e) Trans Europe Express, Pocket Calculator. f) The Robots, Its More Fun to Compute. Has a picture cover with a rear view of the 'dummies' facing their consoles (as on the 'Computer World' inner sleeve) but in green rather than the yellow tint. The other side has a terminal screen with the place, date and tracks of the concert. The labels show the track listings for each side. Sound quality is excellent. An all round excellent item. A 3 LP set that covers all of the concert, unlike most of the other bootlegs which tend to miss off a track or two. I believe this item originates in Japan though this might be wrong. It is now very hard to get hold of, in fact it was hard to get hold of when it was first available. Hence the price being asked L70+, if you can find it. MACHINE (Utrecht 10/12/81 and French radio broadcast 1976) Tracks; a) (Utrecht) Intro, Numbers, Computerwelt, Metropolis, The Model, Computer Liebe, Pocket Calculator. b) (French Radio) Computer Voice, Comet Melody I, Comet Melody II, Tongebirge, Tanzmusik No cover to speak of, plain white with the word 'MACHINE' stuck over it. Interesting in that it has 2 concerts from different years. The first side has the Utrecht 1981 concert. The quality is excellent, 'Metropolis' is just out of this world. Why oh why did they not play this at all their gigs back in '81? The order of the tracks differs from the actual concert but this should not put you off. It has been put together very professionally, you have to really listen between tracks to know where cuts/splices have been made. The other side has an excellent quality recording of a 1976 radio broadcast. I question if the last track is 'Tanzmusik'. If it is then it is a very slow version of it. The labels are plain. Red on one side white on the other. Used to be fairly easy to get hold of a few years back but I have not seen them around for a while. L30 to L50. RETURN OF THE MENSCH MASCHINE (Bologne 07/02/90) Tracks; a) Intro, Numbers, Computer World, Tour de France, The Model, Computer Love. b) Home Computer, Autobahn, Radioactivity. c) Trans Europe Express, Pocket Calculator. d) The Robots, Musique Non Stop. Has a slot together sleeve, sporting a black and white picture of some futuristic buildings on the front. The back has a track listing and credits also states that there are only 1000 copies (who knows?). The quality is excellent and comes from the test gigs prior to the release of 'The Mix' LP the following year. Interestingly the cover states that this was a 20th Anniversary tour. I suspect if Kraftwerk were going to celebrate 20 years they would have performed a few more gigs, if not at least performed in Germany. I think the 1990 gigs were just to prepare/finalise mixes etc. for the new LP. The quality is excellent and has early versions of the mixes that we have come to know more recently. Appears to be quite hard to get hold of now. Expect to pay L20 to L30. (NB; Has since also appeared under a different title in different packaging - IAC.) SAVE YOUR SOFTWARE (Bologna 07/02/90) Tracks; a) Computer Love, Radioactivity, Tour de France. b) The Robots, Boing Boom Tschak, Musique Non Stop. This version of the Bologna gig is even more 'limited', just 100 copies. On one LP, there is just a selection of tracks but it is packaged attractively. The cover sports a 'wire frame' face of Ralf (as from the 'Musique Non Stop'/'Electric Cafe' period) and both labels have this too. The record is pressed on clear vinyl and also includes an insert, which is in Japanese. Side one starts off with some introducing the LP; it is spoken in Japanese, so I cannot comment further - is there anyone out there who could translate? Because of its 'rarity' a little bit more pricey L35 to L50. NEUE KRAFT (Copenhagen 24/10/91) Tracks; a) Intro, Nummern, Computer Welt, Its more fun, Computer Liebe. b) Das Model, Tour de France, Autobahn. c) Radioaktivitaet, Trans Europa Express, Die Roboter. d) Taschenrechner, Musique Non Stop. A 2 LP Picture disk set. Side A of both LPs has a photo of the group playing 'Pocket Calculator' (two different pictures though similar). The B sides show 2 group members and has the track listing for the particular LP. The sound quality is excellent throughout. A good inclusion in any collection. This should still be fairly easy to locate in fairs etc. Prices should be between L20 and L30 for the pair. Recommendations. Try and get hold of 'Kometenmelodie' for an early concert, the 'Computerwelt' triple LP set for a good 1981 item (or, as this may be impossible to get, keep an eye out for 'Security Device') and try and pick up the 'Neue Kraft' picture disks now as they should be amongst the easiest to pick up right now. Vinyl items are going to become harder and harder to obtain. If you are going to obtain a bootleg LP, get it when you first hear about it. Prices and availability become harder to justify as time progresses. John Shilcock, 1993. NB; This article dates from almost three years ago now, so details re prices may be very different now, especially as some of the concerts have also appeared on more readily available and less expensive CD format. There are also some releases not covered here - e.g. the picture discs of the 'Kraftwerk' and 'Kraftwerk 2' LPs and the 'Volle Kraft voraus ins zwanzigste Jahrhundert' 2LP Box-set. This release is in fact the 'Return of Mensch-Maschine' LP but with different packaging. - IAC, May 1996. - - END -- ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #558 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #559 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 9 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 559 Umlauts and italian vinyl TEE Re: The Mix Fluer/FLur Reminder - THE POLL!! Re: Fluer/FLur Re: The Mix Re: Umlauts and italian vinyl TEE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 19:14:06 +0200 Subject: Umlauts and italian vinyl TEE Really-From: Paulo Mouat > In actuality, the name is really spelled "Flur" with an umlaut > (diacritic mark) over the "u" for proper German pronunciation. > (...) > Pascal Bussy's book 'Man, Machine, and Music' always lists Ralf > Hutter's name with the umlaut over the "u", but never lists Flur's > name with the umlaut anywhere in the book. Are you sure that Flur lacks indeed an umlaut? The german words 'die Flur' and 'der Flur' don't have the umlaut. Unfortunately, all the KW CDs crediting Wolfgang Flur as a musician do not exhibit the required umlaut in 'Hutter' also. I think the english spelling 'Fluer' is only to maintain pronounciation, since one would normally read 'Flur' as in 'Fur' rather than as in 'Hue.' I have in my collection of KW-related material both vinyl editions of TEE and Autobahn, TEE pressed in Italy and Autobahn in Portugal. The TEE vinyl is a first-pressing album, i.e. bought in 1977-78. Would anyone be interested in buying these albums? I'll sell them for a minimum of US$8 each (or similar value in other currencies), and if there are multiple requests, I'll start an auction. Cheers! - -- ********************************* Paulo Mouat, mouat@telepac.pt ********************************* ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 21:23:56 +0000 Subject: Re: The Mix Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" > > he stated that the release of "The Mix" was > > mainly a move to minimize bootlegging during their forthcoming > > European tour. > > True, but the Ralf Hutter's above statement is also contradicted in > a couple of interview articles I have as well. What exactly was he saying about the reasons for releasing "The Mix" in the interviews you have? All the interviews I know indicate that the tour was the "real" project, and that the album was only a by-product, which resulted from their work for the tour. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 16:29:37 -0400 Subject: Fluer/FLur Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Ok - then how are Huetter and Fluer pronounced - i know nothing of the german language..... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 00:35:45 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Reminder - THE POLL!! Really-From: Lars Nellemann Hello All I've got 27 answers back on the poll at last count, and I must say, we are an international list, most list are dominated by the inhabitants of the USA, but not this - I've got replies from France, Netherlands, Germany, Brazil, UK (and Scotland), Finland, Portugal, Sweden, Australia, Italy, India, Denmark and USA. But if YOU haven't replied yet - heres the questionare again!!! So if you please could send me answers of the following questions before 15th May - that'll be great. Please send all answers to me (nelleman@biobase.dk) and not to the KW-list. Thanks in advance The 96 KW Poll!! 1: Best Kraftwerk Album? 2: Best Kraftwerk track? 3: Favourite all time Artist/Band, apart from Kraftwerk? 4: At todays Electronic/Techno/Ambient etc scene, which band comes Closest to being the most innovative/renewing band? - in other words: Who are the Kraftwerk's of the 90'ties? The last 3 questions is merely ment to try to figure out what kind of people are on this list. 5: Sex (M/F)? 6: Age? 7: Country? Please answer these 7 qustions and reply to nelleman@biobase.dk before May 15th - thank you. - -- ******************************************************************** * Lars Nellemann * I'm confused - Like a thirsty * * nelleman@biobase.dk * baby in a topless bar ! * * National Hospital of Denmark * ******************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 19:24:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Fluer/FLur Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >Ok - then how are Huetter and Fluer pronounced - i know nothing of the german >language..... Well, this is a tricky sound to get used to for someone only used to speaking English. The sound of the "u" with the umlaut over it would be something like "euyuue". Realizing that this looks like gibberish to many of you, the simplest way I can think of to transliterate the names are as follows: Hutter : HEWT-ehr Flur : FLUHR - -Scott ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 19:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: The Mix Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >What exactly was he saying about the reasons for releasing "The Mix" in the >interviews you have? All the interviews I know indicate that the tour >was the "real" project, and that the album was only a by-product, >which resulted from their work for the tour. I didn't say that the album wasn't a byproduct of the tour, but I said that I doubt that Kraftwerk released 'The Mix' mainly to hinder the bootlegging process. I felt that there was some more creative statement at work with 'The Mix', presenting a kind of retrospective look at KW that traced straight into their future via digital means. I felt that KW saw 'The Mix' as more of a documentation of their work rather than something they had to do in order to prevent the spread of bootleg recordings. In the Mark Sinker interview with Ralf Hutter (c. 1991/1992), Hutter briefly discusses the ideology behind releasing 'The Mix' as an album, making no mention of bootlegging concerns or business obligations: "It's (The Mix) a mix of our developments - then and now - with a lot of literal studio mixing involved - channels, sequencers, tracks." If we turn to Pascal Bussy's book, he suggests that 'The Mix' was a well-thought out and planned idea in the minds of KW following the installation of their new digital setup. He also implies that the notion for releasing 'The Mix' came about well before any planning for the tour were in the works: "Perhaps as a reaction to the lukewarm response that had greeted 'Electric Cafe', Hutter and Schneider had taken the conscious decision not to write any new songs, but to prepare a kind of "best of" record." As always, we have no one definitive source for accurate information, especially since the members of KW themselves alternate their responses to questions depending on when they're asked. In the Aktivitaet article about vinyl bootlegs that Ian Calder just posted to the list, this excerpt appears and I feel summarizes the fuzzy nature of the issue we are discussing here: "Ralf Huetter is reported to have several Kraftwerk bootlegs and says they are fun. On the other hand he appears to be very upset about the mass produced 'Heute Abend' CD set, so his views are a little unclear on this subject." Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "I program my home computer..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 19:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Umlauts and italian vinyl TEE Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >Are you sure that Flur lacks indeed an umlaut? The german words >'die Flur' and 'der Flur' don't have the umlaut. Unfortunately, all >the KW CDs crediting Wolfgang Flur as a musician do not exhibit the >required umlaut in 'Hutter' also. Well, as I mentioned before, the Bussy book always lists the name as "Flur" without the umlaut. Here's the way the name is listed on some of my KW compact discs: Radio-Activity - WITH the umlaut Trans-Europe Express - WITH the umlaut The Man-Machine - WITHOUT the umlaut Computer World - WITHOUT the umlaut Electric Cafe - WITHOUT the umlaut Remember, the reason for omitting the umlaut on such releases may simply be due to lack of the umlaut symbol on the designated fonts. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "It's in the air for you and me..." ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #559 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #560 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Friday, 10 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 560 Ralf & Florian Re: Ralf & Florian Re: Umlauts Re: Ralf & Florian Re: Reminder - THE POLL!! oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: oh you poor son of the digital age.. Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Aktivitaet developments ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 12:10:40 -0200 (MET DST) Subject: Ralf & Florian Really-From: k3041e6@c210.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at (Polaschek Thomas) Hi! A friend of mine came along with a Kraftwerk CD called "Ralf & Florian". It's from 1975, and I really like it, but it was not what I expected to hear when I read "Kraftwerk" on the cover. What I want to know is: Does anyone know something about the equipment, they used on this album, especially the sound at the beginning of "Tongebirge". I did not know that it had been possible, to make such sounds in 1975. Thomas. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 07:40:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Ralf & Florian Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu At 12:10 PM 5/9/96 -0200, (Polaschek Thomas) wrote: >A friend of mine came along with a Kraftwerk CD called "Ralf & Florian". It's >from 1975, and I really like it, but it was not what I expected to hear when >I read "Kraftwerk" on the cover. >What I want to know is: Does anyone know something about the equipment, they >used on this album, especially the sound at the beginning of "Tongebirge". >I did not know that it had been possible, to make such sounds in 1975. The album 'Ralf & Florian' is Kraftwerk's third original album (not counting 'Tone Float'), and it was released in 1973, not 1975. Perhaps that makes Kraftwerk even more ahead of their time than you thought. :o) The sound used on "Tongebirge" is none other than Florian's infamous flute, which can also be heard on KW tracks like "Heimatklange", "Ruckzuck", "Autobahn", "Morgenspaziergang", "Megaherz", and so on. Offhand, I don't have the list of equipment used on 'Ralf & Florian' lying around, so perhaps one of the other fellows would post this. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Ananas Symphonie...Ananas Symphonie..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 09 May 96 11:34:05 +0100 Subject: Re: Umlauts Really-From: marcus@canit.se (Marcus Ohlstrom) >-- Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu > Well, as I mentioned before, the Bussy book always lists the name as >"Flur" without the umlaut. Here's the way the name is listed on some of my >KW compact discs: >Radio-Activity - WITH the umlaut On my Radio-Activity CD, Flur isn't mentioned at all. Neither at my TEE vinyl. And on my Autobahn CD, both Hutter and Flur is listed without the umlaut. (I can't look at my other KW's right now) Does anyone have a list of the members of Kraftwerk, and which years the've played with KW? - -- Marcus Ohlstrom (marcus@canit.se) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 14:07:09 +0200 Subject: Re: Ralf & Florian Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) Hi Everybody, Each time, I see the mention of the album 'Ralf & Florian' my curiosity increases more and more. In fact I know all the "classical" albums of KW ( Autobahn -> The MiX ) or probably ( according the people on this list ) the album 'Ralf & Florian' is very good as well. I never saw it and even never heard about it before joining this list, and I still cannot find it... ( since last year i didn't see anything else in the french shops, that TEE and MM... it's sad ) So if somebody could give me some information about this album (e.g. what it sounds like, where can i get it), it would be fine... Sorry, but I don't know anything about the early KW works... _____ |im - -- __ Timour JGENTI _____________ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE / DIMA gr.Image __ timour.jgenti@ifp.fr ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 09:15:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Reminder - THE POLL!! Really-From: gewither@mailbox.syr.edu (gewither) >-- Really-From: Lars Nellemann >Hello All >I've got 27 answers back on the poll at last count, and I must >say, we are an international list, most list are dominated by >the inhabitants of the USA, but not this - I've got replies >from France, Netherlands, Germany, Brazil, UK (and Scotland), >Finland, Portugal, Sweden, Australia, Italy, India, Denmark and USA. >But if YOU haven't replied yet - heres the questionare again!!! >So if you please could send me answers of the following >questions before 15th May - that'll be great. >Please send all answers to me (nelleman@biobase.dk) >and not to the KW-list. >Thanks in advance >The 96 KW Poll!! >1: Best Kraftwerk Album? Trans Europa Express >2: Best Kraftwerk track? Europa Endlos >3: Favourite all time Artist/Band, apart from Kraftwerk? Yello >4: At todays Electronic/Techno/Ambient etc scene, which band comes > Closest to being the most innovative/renewing band? - in other > words: Who are the Kraftwerk's of the 90'ties? Electric Music >The last 3 questions is merely ment to try to figure out >what kind of people are on this list. >5: Sex (M/F)? M >6: Age? 32 >7: Country? USA (for now, soon to be Germany) >Please answer these 7 qustions and reply to nelleman@biobase.dk before >May 15th - thank you. >-- >******************************************************************** >* Lars Nellemann * I'm confused - Like a thirsty * >* nelleman@biobase.dk * baby in a topless bar ! * >* National Hospital of Denmark * >******************************************************************** Jerry Withers Only Amiga //// A2000/950HD 030/882/17Mb 50Mhz //// makes A2386 & VGA & 150MB HD gewither@.mailbox.syr.edu \\\\//// it A2230 GVP Spectrum 28/24 \\\///possible! AmigaD0S 3.1 CD-ROM ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 13:09:56 +0100 (BST) Subject: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: David Davis > What I want to know is: Does anyone know something about the equipment, they > used on this album, especially the sound at the beginning of "Tongebirge". > I did not know that it had been possible, to make such sounds in 1975. > > Thomas. The amazing sounds were created by Florian Schneider in 1973. He blew down a metal tube,carefully made to resonate on a certain note. The tube could also produce notes harmonically related to this fundamental. This was acheived by holes bored in its side, which could be covered/uncovered by fingers/metal keys as required. I do believe this crude contraption was called a "flute" A transducer was used to tranform the acoustic sound waves in the air into electical waves in a wire.This was known as a "microphone" This electrical signal was then fed to a bizarre little machine. This contained a loop of plastic tape, coated in ferric oxide, which was spun past more tranducers, which this time could transform the signal between electrical waves and magnetic patterns on the tape. The flute's signal was encoded onto the tape, and seconds later, as this part of the tape was spun past more of the transducers, was decoded back again, these time delayed signals being combined with the orignal, and fed back out on a wire. This was called a "tape echo unit" The signal from the unit could be fed to yet another transducer, this time a little electromagnet attached to a paper cone.This was called a "loudspeaker" The loudspeaker converted the electrical signal back into acoustic sound waves in the air. In the decades that followed, evil men called capitalists found that everyone already had these useful devices, and their markets wee saturated. They were very unhappy because they could not make any money, so they inventented new sets of sound devices, and called them DIGITAL. They sold these new digital devices to musicians across the world,and made lots of money again.This made the capitalists very happy, and they said "this is good" Unfortunately though, there was one small problem...the new digital devices sounded like SHIT..... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 18:04:38 -0600 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: "Timour JGENTI" David, I partially agree with you, but PLEASE DON'T relaunch the discussion about ANALOG / DIGITAL devices. Everyone knows they have their own advantages and disadvantages... the devices are not responsibile for those who use them. Timour - -- __ Timour JGENTI _____________ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE / DIMA gr.Image __ timour.jgenti@ifp.fr ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 13:34:33 -0300 (EST) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: Eduardo Marcel Macan 8<--- > Unfortunately though, there was one small problem...the new digital > devices sounded like SHIT..... 8<--- Heh, here we go again... :) |\/| /\ ( /\ |\| ' | macan@dcc.unicamp.br | "I program my home computer, | | http://www.unicamp.br/~macan | beam myself into the future" --Kraftwerk | ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 16:12:30 -0300 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age.. Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) >In the decades that followed, evil men called capitalists found that >everyone already had these useful devices, and their markets wee saturated. >They were very unhappy because they could not make any money, so they >inventented new sets of sound devices, and called them DIGITAL. >They sold these new digital devices to musicians across the world,and >made lots of money again.This made the capitalists very happy, and they >said "this is good" >Unfortunately though, there was one small problem...the new digital >devices sounded like SHIT..... AGAIN?????? My God! How can a mailing list about KW to cause so much controversy about the quality of the digital sounds??? It's a paradox!!! =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 15:56:00 -0500 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: pjschill@students.wisc.edu Actually, I quite enjoyed David's mixture of truth and creative prose... (and the responses to it as well!). Exchanging facts about things such as German Umlaute can get a wee bit boring sometimes. Paul ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 09 May 96 17:16:31 EDT Subject: Aktivitaet developments Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> Over the past few months now, I've been mailing articles from previous issues of Aktivitaet to the list. In the same spirit as the message that is carried along with each post which states... fanzine before re-distributing their material via the Internet. To this end, I drafted a letter explaining the various issues related to this and gave the opportunity to agree or decline to have each individuals material distributed in this way. Regular readers of both the fanzine and the mailing list cannot have failed to notice that there have been no articles written by Paul Wilkinson sent to the list thus far. I can confirm here that Paul has made it clear that he does not want any of the material he has written for Aktivitaet to be used via the Internet. For those not acquainted with the fanzine, Paul Wilkinson, in addition to organising the three unofficial Kraftwerk Conventions held in England thus far, has contributed articles to Aktivitaet from issue 2 onwards and has since built up a regular correspondence/friendship with some of the ex-members of Kraftwerk, such as Wolfgang Fluer, Karl Bartos and Emil Schult and has gained some "exclusive" interviews with the above people, so I cannot disguise the fact that there will be a significant chunk of past Aktivitaet articles that will not be available to re-distribute to the mailing list. In addition Paul has also expressed that he will not be contributing any further articles to future issues of the fanzine. These decisions stem from a series of mutual disagreements over actions relating to the fanzine in recent times. On a more positive note, I've been keeping a list of the Aktivitaet articles that have been sent to the mailing list thus far, so If, at any time, anyone would like such a list for reference please e-mail me and I will send it to you. In the next week or so, I will be distributing a mail shot to the fanzines readers with details of a new subscription service. If you would like to have details of this sent to you now is the time to send details of your name and home address to be added to the Aktivitaet mailing list for this mail shot. Readers in Germany and Spain will have separate details in time from Gunther Poecker and Jose' Garci'a Corral respectively. It is hoped that there may also be distribution locally in the USA, but details are still sketchy as yet. If at any time you have any questions, please e-mail me. Thanks, Ian Calder. ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #560 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #561 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Saturday, 11 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 561 Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... jokes list Kraftwerk and Bootlegs Re: jokes list Andy Warhol, Kraftwerk and the Toilet Man Stocks are up, but still no word on a new release Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: The Mix Re: Bartos & OMD rare mixes Aktivitaet 4 - 'Back To The Future' ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 11:23:26 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: David Davis > David, > > I partially agree with you, but PLEASE DON'T relaunch the > discussion about ANALOG / DIGITAL devices. Everyone knows > they have their own advantages and disadvantages... > the devices are not responsibile for those who use them. Yes, I agree, all those poor DX 7's out there are probably just DYING for someone to come and put some knobs them... it's really not the poor machines' fault. The important point I am trying to make, which no one seems to have picked up on, is the rather sinister POLITICAL / ECONOMIC forces that shape the instruments available for we musicians. Some new top of the range digital equipment in an M.I.T. lab might sound great, but can the man in the street afford to buy it? Conversely, we all know a Roland Juno 60 is a beautiful instrument...but are we allowed to go and buy one in a shop? Or have our old one easily repaired? Personally, I think all those hours members of this list spend listening to Elekrishes Cafe & The Mix would be better spent reading some Althusser (In a LIBRARY, from a BOOK, made of real PAPER!!) THINK ABOUT IT !!!! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 13:35:14 -0200 (MET DST) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: k3041e6@c210.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at (Polaschek Thomas) > > Unfortunately though, there was one small problem...the new digital > > devices sounded like SHIT..... I do really wonder what SHIT could sound like ...???? \\|// (o o) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 14:14:30 GMT Subject: jokes list Really-From: "KANG K.F. B.ENG.ELECT." Dear lads, here is a list of s**t that I was sent by email. I know this has nothing to do with KW, but I just thought that it's good to chill out a little bit sometimes: From: "ALI S. B.ENG. ELECT." Organization: De Montfort University To: p9504896@dmu.ac.uk Date sent: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 19:06:45 GMT Subject: TYPES OF SHIT Priority: urgent Subject: TYPES OF SHIT > The Shit List > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > The Ghost Shit- > > The kind where you feel shit come out, see shit on the toilet paper, but > > there's no shit in the bowl. > > > > The Clean Shit- > > The kind where you feel shit come out, see shit in the bowl, but theres > > no shit on the toilet paper. > > > > The Wet Shit- > > You wipe your ass fifty times and it still feels unwiped. So yo end up > > putting toilet paper between your ass and your underwear so you don't > > ruin > > them with those dreadful skid marks. > > > > The Wet Cheeks Shit- > > That's the kind that comes out of your ass so fast that your butt cheeks > > get splashed with the toilet water, or splash-back. > > > > The Liquid Shit- > > That's the sort where yellowish brown liquid shoots out of your arse, > > splatters all over the inside of the toilet bowl, the whole time burning > > your tender anus. > > > > The Mexican Food Shit- > > In a class of it's own. > > > > The Marketing Shit- > > A turd which is special to SEP, BME and SEE in which there is so much > > shit coming out that you lose 5 stone in the process. > > > > The Second Wave Shit- > > This shit happens when you think you've finished, your pants are up to > > your > > knees, and you suddenly realize you have to shit some more. > > > > The Brain Haemorrahagethroughyournose Shit- > > You have to strain so much to get it out that you turn purple and > > practically have a stroke. > > > > The Corn Shit- > > No explanation necessary. > > > > The Lincoln Log Shit- > > The kind of shit that's so enormous you're afraid to flush it down > B > B > > without first breaking it up into little pieces with the toilet brush. > > > > The Notorius Drinker Shit- > > The kind of shit you have the morning after a long night of drinking. > > It's most noticeable trait is the tread mark left on the bottom of the > > toilet bowl after you flush. > > > > The 'Gee-I-really-wish-I-could' Shit- > B > > The kind where you want to shit, but even after straining your guts out, > > all you can do is sit on the toilet, cramped and farting. > > > > The Power Dump Shit- > > The kind that comes out so fast, you've barely got your pants down and > > you're done. > > > > The Liquid Plumber Shit- > > This kind of shit is so big it plugs up the toilet and it overflows all > > over the floor. You should have followed the advice from the Lincoln Log > > Shit. > > > > The Spinal Tap Shit- > > The kind of shit that hurts so much coming out, you'd swear it's got to > B > > be > > coming out sideways. > > > > The 'I-think-I'm-giving-birth-through-my-asshole' Shit- > > Similar to the Lincoln Log and The Spinal Tap Shits. The shape and size > > of the turd resembles a tall boy beer can. Vacuous air space remains in > > the rectum for some time afterwards. > > > > The Porridge Shit- > > The type that comes out like toothpaste, and just keeps on coming. You > > have > > two choices: (a) flush and keep going, or > > (b) risk it pilling up to your butt while you sit there, > > helpless. > > > > The 'I'm-going-to-chew-my-food-better' Shit- > > When the bag of Dorritos you ate last night lacerates the insides of your > > rectum on the way out in the morning. > > > > The 'I-think-I'm-turning-into-a-bunny' Shit- > > When you drop lots of cute, little round ones that look like marbles and > > make tiny splishy sounds when they hit the water. > > > > The 'What-the-hell-died-in-here' Shit- > > Also sometimes referred to as The Toxic Dump. Of course you don't warn > > anyone of the poisonous bathroom odour. Instead, you stand innocently > > near the door and enjoy the show as they run out a-gagging and a-gasping > > for air. > > > > The 'I-just-know-there's-a-turd-still-dangling-there' Shit- > > Where you just sit there patiently and wait for the last cling-on to drop > > off because if you wipe now, it's going to smear all over the place. > > ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 15:27:51 +0000 Subject: Kraftwerk and Bootlegs Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" > As always, we have no one definitive source for accurate > information, especially since the members of KW themselves > alternate their responses to questions depending on when they're asked. It is correct that Ralf Huetter's statements regarding bootlegs are not consistent, but I think that the remarkably strict security checks during their concerts indicate that Kraftwerk are actually not very happy with bootleg recordings. More examples for their dislike to bootlegs have been posted to this list in the past. Having this in mind, I think that there is good reason to believe that statements suggesting that they don't really care for bootlegging should be taken as serious as statements like "Next year we'll release our new album", "We don't mind if fans take our photographs", "We work in our studio eight hours a day", "We would like to produce other artists, but we don't find the time", "We will soon release a video compilation" or similar promo babbling. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 21:00:36 +0100 Subject: Re: jokes list Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) > >Dear lads, >here is a list of s**t that I was sent by email. >I know this has nothing to do with KW, but I just thought that it's >good to chill out a little bit sometimes: > You may think so, but to me it's an outrageous waste of time and space.It isn't funny either. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 21:05:05 +0100 Subject: Andy Warhol, Kraftwerk and the Toilet Man Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) I recently was wondering whether Andy Warhol and Kraftwerk ever met? Andy and Kraftwerk were both into making 'statements' about anything and everything. For example, Andy convinced a rather unfortunate fellow to live permanently in the 'Factory' toilets. The 'Toilet Man' gave it a hell of a try, eventually dying from lack of fresh air, exercise and an excess of drugs. This sort of extreme statement may be comparable with what Kraftwerk got up to in the late 70's. Any thoughts on this? Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 21:09:35 +0100 Subject: Stocks are up, but still no word on a new release Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) I called in at HMV on Oxford Street on my way home from work today. I noticed that the Kraftwerk CD section was EXTREMELY well stocked up. All the original albums were available in large quantities and there was a good selection of imports. Normally record shops stock up on bands back catalogues when interest in the band is about to be imminently revived by a new album. I therefore checked with the sales assistants, who unfortunately knew nothing about a new album. We can keep our hopes up! Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 21:17:59 +0100 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >The important point I am trying to make, which no one seems to have >picked up on, is the rather sinister POLITICAL / ECONOMIC forces that >shape the instruments available for we musicians. Some new top of the I can't believe politics and economics is being blamed for digital technology. Don't forget digital electronics allied to Kraftwerks groundbreaking work in the early 80's enabled the house music revolution to happen in the late 80's. Bands such as MARRS, Bomb the Base and S'Express were groundbreaking. These bands moved things forward far more than anything since Kraftwerks Computer World. I would advise anyone who's not impressed with digital electronics to stop taking such a snobbish atitude. >Personally, I think all those hours members of this list spend listening >to Elekrishes Cafe & The Mix would be better spent reading some Althusser >(In a LIBRARY, from a BOOK, made of real PAPER!!) > I agree with this, but the fact that these 2 albums are rubbish isn't related to them being digital IMO. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 21:30:49 +0100 Subject: Re: The Mix Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) > If we turn to Pascal Bussy's book, he suggests that 'The Mix' was a >well-thought out and planned idea in the minds of KW following the >installation of their new digital setup. > "Perhaps as a reaction to the lukewarm response that had greeted >'Electric Cafe', Hutter and Schneider had taken the conscious decision not >to write any new songs, but to prepare a kind of "best of" record." > Unfortunately I didn't have time to read all of your version of War and Peace, I did however notice the above. I remember reading this myself. Emil Schult also regarded it as a best of album, offering to produce (what would have been naff IMO)a cover which incorporated all their previous albums artwork - eg trains, automobiles and computers. I personally don't think The Mix should be regarded as a best of. Its official purpose seems to be to create an upto date dance album. Measured against this goal it is reasonably successful. However, many, many bands produce upto date dance albums, but they aren't necessarily good. I personally would have preffered a genuine greatest hits album. This could have offered shortened versions of their more commercial efforts. A tracklisting which had 3 - 4 minute versions of TEE, The Model, Radioactivity, Computer Word, Les Mannequins etc would have been a must for many people. It would also have been commercially very successful. The singles could have been re-released. With a big marketing campaign this could have made Kraftwerk into a main stream chart band, rather than a niche outfit. A greatist hits also would have been much quicker to make, therefore leaving more time to produce genuinely new material. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 21:50:46 +0100 Subject: Re: Bartos & OMD Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Latest news from sources in the UK is that the new album, "Universal" >won't be released until September of 1996. This news has been confirmed by >Andy himself. There is no release date set for a single that I know of. The excitement is unbearable. A once half decent band are finally preparing to reveal a new radical different approach to making records. Haven't we heard this sort of nonsense from virtually every band who's fallen on hard times and decided to have a go at making a comeback. The last decent album they made was Crush,(1985), and this was only made playable by Stephen Hagues superb production skills. OMD IMO are not a serious electronic band. They're a joke and a fraud. Huetter and Schneider apparently don't think much of many of the British bands who tried to cash in on the electronics boom in the early 80's (OMD included!). I'm with R & F on this one!! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 23:20:34 -0200 (MET DST) Subject: rare mixes Really-From: k3041e6@c210.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at (Polaschek Thomas) A few days ago, I picked up a CD alles "rare mixes". The tracks seem to bee very similar to the tracks of "the mix". Or am I wrong? There is also a wrong index/track number on the cover. Some songs have no right index, and you have to hear the previous track until it's end to come to the following. Is this CD a bootleg or a regular kraftwerk album??? Thomas ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 10 May 96 17:58:38 EDT Subject: Aktivitaet 4 - 'Back To The Future' Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> Back to the Future? A review of Kraftwerk's May 1993 Concerts by Ian Calder Aktivitaet 4 - August 1993 Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Were it not for the unofficial networks such as Aktivitaet and the Kraftwerk e-mailing list, many Kraftwerk fans may have been unaware that the band have been active of late, performing a small number of concerts in Holland, Belgium and Germany at the end of May and in Austria during mid-June. As it happens, the gigs provided a good meeting place for fans who have previously known each other via letters or computerised communication. Still, to the matter at hand; the gigs. There were three concerts performed during the last week of May; at the Oosterpoort in Groningen, which is in the North of Holland, on May 25th - at the Vooruit in Gent, Belgium on the following night, the 26th, and finally at the Stadthalle in Osnabrueck, Germany on the 27th. This final gig was part of the Klang Art festival held from 26th-29th May in Osnabrueck. It's probably fair to say that Kraftwerk's show was obviously viewed as one of the high- profile events of the festival. As well as these three gigs, the band also performed at another festival, the Ars Electronica festival held in Linz, Austria on June 17th. So, lets get to the important bits first. Previous to these concerts there was a lot of speculation that they would be performing new songs. This did not happen. In a rather strange turn of events, the band have actually taken a backward step; as the first gig progressed it was obvious that they were performing the songs in the exact same order as for the 1991 tours. Except for one exception; the inclusion of 'Die Mensch Maschine', which, to my knowledge, was the first time that the band have ever performed this song live. So, if you know the set-list for the 1991 gigs all you have to do is insert 'Die Mensch Maschine' between 'Tour De France' and 'Autobahn' and - presto! - Kraftwerk 1993. Sort of... The layout of the stage-set is also back to the 1991 format; the 'v- shape' layout. (For the three concerts in England in 1992 the band were in a straight line, facing the audience.) One notable difference though was the addition of what I believe are called 'Vari-Lights'. These computer controlled spotlights were used quite sparingly really and the overall level of lighting on stage is still pretty dim. More often than not these new lights were illuminating the Kling Klang equipment more than the men with their fingers and feet on the controls! There have been live reviews in previous issues of Aktivitaet of the 1991-era live shows and since these were so similar it seems inappropriate to devote even more column inches in what can only be a reprise. So, here are some details of the notable differences. 'Die Mensch Maschine'; the 1993 version is not too drastically different from the original LP mix in fact. The song kicks off with a different start, the 'electronic voice' on its own with the familiar 'man machine, machine, machine...' passage. The unmistakable rhythm of the song then commences and the jerky electronic tones of the tune join in. These are still very similar to the original version. However, the rhythm has been beefed-up though it has not had a 'four-from-the-floor' bass drum tattoo grafted on I am glad to report. Such a rhythm would perhaps wreck this particular tracks symmetry. The electronic voice is different though, sounding more like examples to be found on 'The Mix' instead of the more vocoder- ish original. The song is longer than the original version too. Obviously, there are graphics to accompany the track displayed on the screens. These are relatively simple, based on the lettering from the LP sleeve and in particular inspired by the geometrical graphics from the rear of the cover and are all in black, white and red. Half of the track features the German lyrics and the final section features the English lyric. The individual words are flashed on screen in-synch with the music. This was a real bonus as it made deciphering the German lyric easy. It also made obvious that there is no mention of the man machine being a 'super-human being'; only a 'semi-human being'. This track was easily the most noisily appreciated of all three nights - something of a hint perhaps that the fans like to hear something different from the standard set. By and large, the version of the other songs held no great surprises. 'Radioactivity' was notable because it was similar to the re-arrangement first aired at the three concerts in England in 1992. 'Tour De France' still features the excellent intro which is performed in near darkness before the tri-colour sleeve design silhouettes the band as the rhythmical breathing commences. It is something of an overture really and is quite a welcome addition. As ever, 'Music Non Stop' and 'Pocket Calculator' changed radically from night to night. Some different lighting effects were evident for 'Pocket Calculator', with white spotlights high up behind the band illuminating the audience at the front almost as much as the band themselves. As in 1991, both 'The Robots' (with the video of the bands robots shown) and 'Robotronik' (with the actual robots themselves in the, er, 'flesh' as it were!) were performed. It's still a neat trick I guess, for fans who have not seen it before, to witness the unveiling of the robots after the video versions fade away. The concerts finished with 'Music Non Stop' again, though the song is much shorter nowadays in comparison to the 1991 renditions where each member would contribute their own little solo. As usual, the band exit the stage one at a time, Florian abruptly, then Fritz followed by Henning and finally Ralf. From my own point of view, the German gig was very interesting because of the differences in the video accompaniments. For instance, 'Computer Welt' has a more substantial lyric in the German language thus there are extra phrases/images displayed, including a very short, but very memorable, computerised image of a house pieced together. In the English versions, the word 'entertainment' is animated and so too is the German equivalent, 'unterhaltung'. One part I was puzzled about was during 'Das Model'; there were a couple of loud cheers and I could see nothing much that had prompted them; however, it was later explained to me by Derek Floyd, who is now much familiar with such things, that it was when the images on the video screens panned upwards of the women's legs - this appealed to the German sense of humour! The security arrangements at the concerts were very stringent and aimed obviously at stifling the trade in live tape recordings, videos and photos. Previous issues of the fanzine have featured plenty of live pix, so I trust that the small amount of live pix in issue 4 won't be too disappointing... As to merchandising, there was some new produkt. As well as the familiar T-shirts featuring the robot logo (in both black and white variants) there was also two different designs of cycling shirts; a blue one with the 'autobahn' logo on the front and motor car logo on the back, both printed in white, and also a yellow one with bright orange 'radioactivity' lettering and symbol. Now you don't have to win a stage of the Tour De France to wear the yellow jersey; you can wear the Kraftwerk version instead! It has often been a point of debate amongst fans as to how much of the music the band actually play live these days. As John Shilcock pointed out in his article from Aktivitaet 2, 'What a difference 10 years make?!', the man machine has become more of a machine man. In 1991, I was surprised to see Fritz Hilpert using drum sticks. It was obviously something of a Kraftwerk hallmark, an echo from the classic period when Wolfgang Fluer and Karl Bartos powered the rhythm section, but somehow it seemed quite quaint in this day and age of sophisticated drum machines and samplers. But it was good to see and did actually add a special something to some tracks. By last summers concerts only a couple of the tracks still featured Fritz and his drum sticks. Now, there are none and this has reduced the already slim ratio of actual performance even further. Further observation from the balcony at one of the concerts merely confirmed such reckoning. I must say then, regardless of however much I enjoyed the concerts I was disappointed at the lack of anything really new. As much as I like the songs and in particular the live versions of those such as 'Computer World' and 'Numbers' that have yet to be released I still would have preferred to hear the band try out new material. Or at least some more of their other songs, such as 'Showroom Dummies', 'Neon Lights', 'Sex Object' et al. It may well be because they are aware of the fact that such a set would be an easy target for the bootleggers to cash in on that they stick to the familiar set as a deterrent, but that is hardly an excuse. The next excuse down the line may be to stop playing gigs altogether in order to thwart the bootleggers. Take it further and it may be to stop playing anything at all, in order to thwart the samplers! What good is a band then? For the last four years now the band have featured the same set of songs at all of their gigs, except for the inclusion of 'Die Mensch Maschine' for these latest ones. Seems strange... - - END -- ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #561 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #562 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Monday, 13 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 562 Kraftwerk Live (1993), The 1996 Tribal Gathering has been rescheduled Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... re; info on Kraftwerk dealer in the UK Aktivitaet 4 - 'Elektric Music-Up To Date' (Part 1) Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 11:58:46 +0100 Subject: Kraftwerk Live (1993), The 1996 Tribal Gathering has been rescheduled Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) I read the Aug 93 Aktivitat and noticed that k-werk played live in Holland, Belgium and Germany during the summer of that year - I didn't know this. Is this the last time they played live anywhere? It does show that they may pop-up at any time any place. Hopefully at some of the events this summer. The UK Tribal Gathering did not go ahead recently due to licensing problems. It has been rescheduled provisionally to the end of June, giving Kraftwerk chance to appear at what must be one of the most desirable of all festivals. (NOTE: I am not suggesting that they will turn up). Has anyone heard anything recently?? Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 Aug 93 23:16:03 +0000 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: Brendan Heading >In the decades that followed, evil men called capitalists found that >everyone already had these useful devices, and their markets wee saturated. >They were very unhappy because they could not make any money, so they >inventented new sets of sound devices, and called them DIGITAL. >They sold these new digital devices to musicians across the world,and >made lots of money again.This made the capitalists very happy, and they >said "this is good" >Unfortunately though, there was one small problem...the new digital >devices sounded like SHIT..... Now don't be ridiculous. People wanted to do things with electronic music. Way back in the earlier eighties people were actually getting sick of analogue sounds. Klaus Schulze will tell you about how he gave all his analogue gear away to replace it with spanky digital gear - no tuning probs, very predictable etc. Digital only sounds like shit if you're too stupid to be able to program it. Any berk can change the sounds on a Minimoog but it takes a true synthesist to make the most of the DX7. That's why they all used presets.... Anyway, digital synths weren't produced purely out of a desire to make money. It was out of a desire for new, different sounds which analogue could not offer. > |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| -- I didn't want to make music. I didn't want to be a robot, even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years..." --Wolfgang Fleur, leaving Kraftwerk in 1987. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 12 May 96 12:57:57 EDT Subject: re; info on Kraftwerk dealer in the UK Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> I would like to ask if anyone on the mailing list has had any untoward dealings, or indeed any dealings, with a UK record dealer, regularly advertised in 'Record Collector'; Retriever Records, 41 Cookes Croft, Northfield, Birmingham, UK I have had a small number of letters from readers of Aktivitaet fanzine expressing concern about some of the items that are for sale from this dealer. Therefore, I would ask if anyone has any of their own experiences that they get in touch with me, as I intend to write to this dealer and detail the readers concerns. All replies will of course be treated in strictest confidence. There are a few items in particular from the sales list that are of concern; - - a tape that is sold as being a copy of the unreleased 'Technopop' LP - - 'monitor mixes' of Kraftwerk LPs (and also Elektric Music's 'Esperanto') - - video recordings of concerts sold as being '1st generation copies' with 'brilliant sound and vision'. Ian Calder ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 12 May 96 12:57:43 EDT Subject: Aktivitaet 4 - 'Elektric Music-Up To Date' (Part 1) Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> 'Elektric Music - Up To Date' (Part 1) The Elektric Music story, 1992 - August 1993 by Ian Calder Aktivitaet 4 - August 1993 (Revised and updated May 1996) Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Well, it is worth taking time to do a resume of the Elektric Music story, now that the facts are known, to clear up earlier confusion. Firstly, it appears that Elektric Music are in fact a duo of Karl Bartos and Lothar Manteuffel. Lothar was previously with the German new-wave band Rheingold. For a long time it was unclear as to what the band's line up was and whether Wolfgang Fluer and Emil Schult were full-spec members. While both do seem to have some involvement they are not actually 100% band members. Emil has designed all of the cover artwork used thus far on their releases and has also been involved in the songwriting process on the bands debut album. Wolfgang Fluer's involvement is less clear-cut. At the end of December last year (1992), the bands debut single was released in Germany. 'Crosstalk' was issued on CD (056- 110363) and very limited edition 10" promo-only (050-110365) formats on the German SPV label. The CD single, a numbered limited edition of 5000 copies, contains three tracks; 'Crosstalk' (5'52") (*not* 3'33" as stated on the sleeve), 'Intercomix' (4'08") (a different version of 'Crosstalk') and the cover version of 'Baby Come Back' (4'14") that was originally released on the 'Ruby Trax' compilation LP released via the NME music paper in Britain. The CD single has very nice packaging, a fold-out full colour 'digipak' type sleeve, with photos of Bartos and Manteuffel and additional artwork by Emil Schult. This CD is already quite rare, in Britain at any rate. In the original version of this article I referred mistakenly to the existence of a 12" single release too. This assumption was based on the catalogue number for a MS (Maxi-Single) being listed alongside the CD singles cat. no. on the rear of its sleeve; however, this cat. no. is for the ultra-limited edition 10" promo single. From Elektric Music themselves, the figure quoted for the amount of copies available is 250. The 10" omits the 'Baby Come Back' track altogether but otherwise both 'Crosstalk' and 'Intercomix' are as per the versions on the CD. It has a very different cover design, it is basically just a plain white card cover, but it has the electricity pylon logo and the titles rubber-stamped in ink onto it. The inner bag has a sticker attached with the details of the tracks. The labels have just 1 and 2 on each side. The 10" seems to have been targeted at US and German DJ's. Strange but true; had the band not covered The Equals' 'Baby Come Back', their next choice of past UK number 1 to cover was Tubeway Army's 'Are 'Friends' Electric?'. The NME music paper sampler, 'Ruby Trax', from late 1992 was released on both a three CD set and cassette set, and later on a limited edition vinyl LP set. Intended to commemorate the NME's anniversary, the set features 39 UK number 1 hits and a number 2. Elektric Music's version of 'Baby Come Back', originally a hit for Eddy Grant's band The Equals, is featured in disc three and following on from that is Ride's version of Kraftwerk's 'The Model'. The sleeve notes contain a little about the group. In February of this year (1993), the band's second single was released in Germany, again on the SPV label, though in a multitude of formats this time. 'TV' is an excellent, melodic track that delivers what Karl Bartos described as "electronic music with melodies that can touch your soul" back in 1991. As I mentioned, there are numerous formats, again on SPV records; CD single with picture CD, 12" single, 12" picture disc single, MiniDisc (yes!) and also a very limited edition 10" promo single. In a shrewd piece of marketing, it is necessary to buy at least two of the formats to obtain the various mixes. The CD single (SPV, 055- 92673) contains 'TV' (4.04) and 'Television' (4.00), a slower version of the 'TV' theme. The CD itself is a picture CD and uses the full colour test-card logo from the sleeve design to good effect. The packaging of this release is the familiar slim plastic case format instead of the digipak used for 'Crosstalk'. The 12" and 12" picture disc (SPV, 050-92675) contain 'TV2' (5.40), (another quite different version) on the A side and 'Television' on the B side. The picture sleeve for the standard 12" uses the same 'test-card' design as the CD though is less effective in its emulation due to the plain white background. The 12" picture disc single contains the same tracks and has the same cat. no. as the standard issue but comes in a plain black cover with a large circle cut in the front through which the picture disc is visible. The picture disc itself uses the test-card logo on side one, with the reverse featuring the text from the rear of the cover, but against a plain white background, not the grey/white grid. The picture disc can be seen in the promo video for 'TV' quite extensively. The MiniDisc (076-926-78) single appears to be a rather attractive little item; it contains 'TV', 'TV2', 'Crosstalk' and 'Intercomix'. The packaging is in a similar vein to the other formats except that it also contains two extra pics of the two band members, in silhouette against a projection of the sleeve design. It would appear to be very rare indeed - somewhere in the regions of 200 copies, many of which were promotional copies. Very nice, but you need a MiniDisc player to actually play the thing! The 10" promo single (000-92675) is similar in nature to the one for 'Crosstalk', in terms of its packaging. The record is in a plain white cardboard sleeve, with the round, centre portion of the testcard design rubber-stamped in ink on the front. Above this is 'Elektric Music' and below is the signatures of both Karl and Lothar (in felt pen) either side of the title 'TV'. Record labels are plain white, with just 'A' and 'B' on them. There is a small sticker on the paper inner sleeve giving track details. On the A side it features 'TV' (4.04) while the B side features 'TV2' (5.44). Again, like 'Crosstalk', this 10" promo was distributed in the US and I've seen at least one dance chart it was included in, referred to as 'TV 404', presumably because of the songs length. At the end of May, the debut album was released in Germany. 'Esperanto' is the name and it contains eight tracks, two of which are 'TV' (in an extended version (5'44") of the original mix) and 'Crosstalk' (5'52" as per the single). This German release on SPV records is available only on CD and cassette. However, there are two formats for the CD release; normal copies in the standard plastic case packaging (084-92832) and also versions in the cardboard 'digipak' type packaging (084-92892). The sleeve design for the digipak version is very similar to the normal edition and disappointing in comparison to the 'Crosstalk' CD single. The band, after a period of negotiation, signed to the EastWest label, part of WEA (Warner Elektra Asylum) for their UK/rest of Europe(?) and US/Canadian releases. The EastWest release of 'Esperanto' appeared on June 28th in the UK and was, like the German issue, only on CD and Cassette (though there was a vinyl release planned originally, but this never actually made it into production). The CD version (4509 92999 2) comes in the standard UK plastic 'jewel case' packaging. The sleeve design is almost identical to the German release on SPV, except for the obligatory changes in record company logo's/cat. no.'s etc. Might get a bit confusing in the future; the copies on EastWest are actually pressed in Germany ... yet, this is not the German release! The first single to be issued in the UK was 'TV', released after Aktivitaet 4's appearance. The Japanese release of 'Esperanto' was scheduled to appear on the Alfa label, cat. no. ALCB-815 and even advertised in some UK mail order lists before release, tempting many with the bonus of an extra track to be included. However, it appears that the release was cancelled at the last minute, so there is in fact no Japanese issue. 'Japanese import' copies of the 'Esperanto' CD spotted in Amsterdam record store(s) turned out to be merely German copies with the addition of a wrapped-around title strip, like Japanese issues. One of the tracks on 'Esperanto' is 'Information'. A while back, in Aktivitaet 2 in fact (August 1992), it was reported in the 'News From Nowhere' section that this track was to be released as a single, in collaboration with LFO, featuring four different mixes of the track. It was then reported in Aktivitaet 3 that it had been put back 'until 1993'. Well, I have heard no more on this subject at all, so there is still no indication as to when or even if this will eventually see the light of day. Finally, a short interview with Karl and Lothar was shown on MTV Europe's 'News At Night' programme on July 9th along with snippets of the promo video for 'TV'. Thanks to Paul Wilkinson, The Prof and Mark Stagg for additional info. - - END -- ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 22:05:08 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: David Davis So it is "ridiculous" to suppose that politico-economic forces in society have any influence on the instruments which are available for musicians in that society to use? Members on this list "cannot believe" that I am referring to these connections? The instruments available for musicians to use have no effect on the music which they manage to produce? such as these. I do however, violently disagree with them. I would guess that those members of this list up in arms at my suggestions would be those from a primarily scientific background. Naturally the state has conviently managed to ensure that they have never engaged their brains to really consider these questions...Certainly they haven't read any Althusser.. ( Actually I think a hefty dose of Foucault is in order here too!) I state categorically... - It is utterly naive to think that music is somehow removed from the material realities of its means of production, that instead its development is determined soley by some artistic ideal of musicians. I emplore all you blinkered exploited people out there to raise your awareness of these issues. There are libraries full of relevent material... There is little point my trying to elaborate beyond these most basic of points when many members of this list seem to be so unaware as to be thinking "Who or what is Foucault!?" One parting thought, however.... name me ONE British "new-wave synth pop" band (for want of a better "term")... Orchestral Manoeuvres The Human League Ultravox / John Foxx Gary Numan etc etc etc etc ... who did not spend the latter half of the 80s making crap DIGITAL records that were a shadow of the former analogue electronic heights. You should be able to answer that one without any recourse to Althusser !! yours in desperate-awareness-raising-mode david.davis ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 17:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: Matthew Bruns On Sun, 12 May 1996, David Davis wrote: [politics snipped] > One parting thought, however.... > name me ONE British "new-wave synth pop" band (for want of a better > "term")... [list snipped temporarily] > ... who did not spend the latter half of the 80s making crap DIGITAL > records that were a shadow of the former analogue electronic heights. New Order, the Pet Shop Boys, Depeche Mode, and Madonna all pop into mind. They all seem to be getting along fine using both technologies, as are (after a bit of trouble): > The Human League Erasure, to provide a counterpoint, get criticized for Vince's sticking with analogue. The fact that there are synthpop and dancepop acts (not necessarily from the 80's) around today that make very pleasant and fine records seems relevant, as well. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 12 May 96 20:59:20 EDT Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: Mark Stagg <101706.1667@CompuServe.COM> I'm sorry, but I've just got to say something here... :-) >It is utterly naive to think that music is somehow removed from the >material realities of its means of production, that instead its >development is determined solely by some artistic ideal of musicians. Completely true, of course... but isn't that *exactly* the point about Kraftwerk? At any one moment in time there are indeed a whole barrage of "socio-economic" forces at work in all aspects of popular culture - be it literature, music, whatever. And Kraftwerk's unique contribution was simply to respond to these in their own way, tapping into the *zeitgeist*, and pretty much inventing contemporary pop music along the way. Those same sinister market forces that dictate the availability of a certain technology to the masses are indeed partially responsible for shaping the popular culture of the moment - but it's a two-way process. These unfortunate masses have to get their grubby hands on them at some stage and produce something with them. The two things feed of each other; art is life, etc. For example: wholly intertwined with the notion of digital synthesis is the technique of SAMPLING... and the introduction of cheap, widely available samplers has been without question responsible for giving birth to whole new crucial genres of popular music, together with all the associated cultural phenomena that feed from them. Put it this way... I'm sure that Mr Fat Capitalist wasn't anticipating jungle, or gansta rap, when he force fed us all those only-just-affordable machines back in the 80's. Arguing about whether Florian's flute in 1973 sounds better than some digital synth preset in 1986 or not is surely completely irrelevant to what Kraftwerk are all about. Not only is it a totally subjective issue anyway, but it reminds me somewhat of those diehards who go around complaining that Elvis sold out when he signed to RCA; i.e. it's the difference between being merely good, and being IMPORTANT. The very *existence* of the original inquiry that generated this strand in the first place aptly demonstrates that Kraftwerk's vision of "elektric volksmusik" has been completely vindicated, and is nothing whatsoever to do with the overlong analogue-vs-digital debate. I think R+F would probably find it quite satisfying that this "poor son of the digital age" is more familar with, say, a certain modern synth timbre, than the sound of ye olde worlde flute... that's EXACTLY what they were always anticipating. And yes, you're reading this posting on a PC/whatever brought to you courtesy of a veritable host of evil socio-economic forces. That's life, unfortunately. :0) "...I remember the first monophonic synthesiser I bought was the same price as a Volkswagen. So that was the choice to make." (Ralf Huetter, 1992). Bleep Bleep STAGGMAN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 18:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: Matthew Bruns I'm sorry that I've already sent a response to part of this, but I had to comment on the rest, reading it over again... On Sun, 12 May 1996, David Davis wrote: > So it is "ridiculous" to suppose that politico-economic forces in society > have any influence on the instruments which are available for musicians in > that society to use? No, of course it isn't silly to suppose that politics and economics influence these things, I think that the extent you suggest is in question, here. > The instruments available for musicians to use have no effect on the > music which they manage to produce? Who has suggested this? This is a Kraftwerk list. Kraftwerk are known, if anything, for their attention to the means used to make music. > - It is utterly naive to think that music is somehow removed from the > material realities of its means of production, that instead its > development is determined soley by some artistic ideal of musicians. Fine and dandy. The thing is, though, that artistic ideals seem to have a hell of a lot more influence on the levels that you're talking about. If your thinking were correct, we shouldn't see any analogue sitting around, should we? Why, then, is the 808 so prevalent? Why can synthpop acts get along equally well using either new technology or older alternatives (compare the Pet Shop Boys and Erasure, for example)? The obvious analysis is that in the synth & dance pop world trends in dance music have the largest influence on what gets made. I mean, house and techno have had tremendous impacts, and they weren't particularly the result of new technology. I mean, people had drum machines before, didn't they? The development of dance music seems to be a club or artist-based sort of thing. This indicates that economics as expressed through technology is not the prime factor. Can you offer an economic analysis that fits the evidence any better? > I emplore all you blinkered exploited people out there to raise your > awareness of these issues. There are libraries full of relevent material... Please refrain from this sort of statement. > There is little point my trying to elaborate beyond these most basic of > points when many members of this list seem to be so unaware as to be > thinking "Who or what is Foucault!?" There is every point in offering your analysis. However, saying "digital sucks & was foisted on us by the man!" is far from convincing, I must say. ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #562 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #563 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Monday, 13 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 563 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 14:54:37 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: Anders Wahlbom With all due respect, David, I have some objections to your examples: > name me ONE British "new-wave synth pop" band (for want of a better > "term")... > Orchestral Manoeuvres 85-90 output: one album, one single. Allow me to quote from the inner sleeve of "The Pacific Age": MARTIN COOPER: keyboards & saxophones GRAHAM WEIR: trombone, keyboards, guitar MALCOLM HOLMES: drums & percussion ANDY McCLUSKEY: vocals, keyboards, bass guitar NEIL WEIR: trumpet & bass PAUL HUMPHREYS: keyboards, percussion, vocals Quite a lot of analogue equipment there... > The Human League 85-90 output: one album, which was made using *very* analogue equipment (i.e. acoustic drums, guitars, bass et.c.), also their worst album ever (and IMHO the only one that's really bad). > Ultravox / John Foxx Ultravox: one album. (U-Vox, which had loads of brass on it, and a guest appearance by the decidedly non-digital band The Chieftains... Which is my least favourite Ultravox album, including "Revelation".) Foxx: NO OUTPUT AT ALL between "In Mysterious Ways" in 1985 and the Nation 12 singles in - what was it, 1990? Midge Ure: also steered away from synth towards more mainstream instrumentation... > Gary Numan etc etc etc etc So "Sacrifice" is purely analogue, is it? (Also note the frequent use of saxophones in Gary's late 80s output...) > ... who did not spend the latter half of the 80s making crap DIGITAL > records that were a shadow of the former analogue electronic heights. Erasure, Depeche Mode, Pet Shop Boys, New Order... Since you said "British" I won't mention any Swedish or German bands. I have still to be convinced that the questionable quality of the aforementioned albums is due to the use of DIGITAL equipment. (On the contrary, in some cases it's their attempts at using acoustic instruments that were responsible...) IMHO, it would be more logical to attribute this to something else - failing creativity, perhaps? Also note that most of those artists mentioned above used brass on their records from the period. Conclusion? Anders Wahlbom - awahlbom@krille.update.uu.se http://www.update.uu.se/~awahlbom/ NOW PLAYING: Various: "It Never Happens To Me - A Vince Clarke Substitute" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 18:21:47 +0200 Subject: TEE Question Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) I was always wondering why KW divided the song Trans Europe Express into 3 tracks?! In my mind I consider it as a one single track. There's no real differencies between the 3 parts, it's really a continous song... So does anybody know why the 3rd part was called "Franz Schubert"? maybe there's some melodies of Schubert musics included in the tune? or what else? Tim - -- _______________________________________________________________________ /\___ Timour JGENTI _______ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE /\ / / timour.jgenti@ifp.fr __ DIMA, groupe Image __________/ / \/_____________________________________________________________________\/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 18:32:36 +0200 Subject: Vocoder Formula Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) I have a question for someone who knows everything about the signal processing. So if you know the solution to my problem, please mail me directly... PROBLEM: I wanna do some robotical voice, a program to process sound and make some vocoded voice, then: suppose that i have 8bits voice signed sample, so I consider the sample values as float between -1 and +1. How could i process this sample to make the human voice sound as a "robot" voice as a vocoder does, but not in real time. So I tried some math expressions like: wave2=wave1*sin(t)*sin(t*200) where t is some time or sample variable, wave1=source, wave2=target sample it gives some amazing results but not really a vocoded voice... so you have a suggestion, it's WELCOME! __________ /\ _______\ \ \ \____ / NEEDED VOCODER SIGNAL PROCESSING METHOD \ \ \/ / / \ \/ / / \ / / Robotiquement votre, \/_/ Timour - -- _______________________________________________________________________ /\___ Timour JGENTI _______ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE /\ / / timour.jgenti@ifp.fr __ DIMA, groupe Image __________/ / \/_____________________________________________________________________\/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 18:45:04 +0200 Subject: Balanescu Quartet Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) A few days ago, I found a CD with 5 reprises of Kraftwerk by The Balanescu Quartet. It's a starnge re-interpretation of Robots, Model, Autobahn, C.Love and P.Calc. with the violins and other string classical instruments. It sounds like in the movie "Psycho"... little bit painful, but rather interesting. Unfortunately for me and my discovery, this CD is always referenced in the Lazlo's discography. So some of you have already listen to it, however I recall its existence for those who didn't... it's quite amazing stuff... "Je suis l'operateur de mon mini calculateur..." HP48S still alive! Timour Jgenti-Vinogradov - -- _______________________________________________________________________ /\___ Timour JGENTI _______ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE /\ / / timour.jgenti@ifp.fr __ DIMA, groupe Image __________/ / \/_____________________________________________________________________\/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 11:46:39 -0500 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: pjschill@students.wisc.edu Since this discussion is turning out to be rather one-sided: Does anybody realize what Mr. Davis is really trying to say here? I can't believe that in this Kraftwerk mailing list, every single response to this topic has been a *reaction* to what was said, rather than a real, intelligent contribution. Those of you who have been closely following the development of synthesizers since the '70s or early '80s, must know that economics had a *huge* influence on synth design. These are a couple of quotes from Vangelis (if anybody could come up with quotes from Kraftwerk members on digital vs. analog synth design, I think it would help the discussion). http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/perki/the_man.html "To get a satisfactory result concerning the expression and the musicality of the synthesizers, one has to expect a constant effort, because those instruments weren't made for that purpose. Not because the technology isn't good enough, but because of a narrow state of mind and a too commercial state of the constructors, which pushes them to produce these instruments." "One mustn't believe I am against technology. On the contrary, I have always thought of it as a marvelous tool which one has to use when it helps us. Sadly, nowadays, the tendency is reversed. We become more and more slaves of technology and consequently, we get mediocre results, in spite of the appearance." "I keep all of my keyboards through the years. I never sell or throw things away. Every instrument has something to offer, but I am very disappointed with the way that things are going. The technology is fine, but the design is less and less human." Paul Schilling ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 18:48:53 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: David Davis Certain members of this list seem to have such a psychological blindspot about the issues I have been trying to raise here that I wonder if there is any point trying to pursue this topic further.... to give an example...someone cited the Roland TR 808 as some sort of example of musicians' idealism defeating capitalism. Well, yes, perhaps it IS... but certainly not in the way he was looking at it... -The TR 808 WAS a great machine, so musicians wanted to use it, and it could be argued that it was a pivotal element in the whole genre of late 80s electronic dance music... HOWEVER... don't you see that this was INSPITE of the wishes of the Roland Corporation, who hadn't produced the machine for years when all this resurgence was taking place? Roland refused to manufacture this unit, instead they wanted to flog whatever new fangled gubbins they had in their warehouses in 1989. Musicians wishing to use a Tr 808 had to seek one out on the 2nd hand market, hunt around, pay ever-spiralling prices (IF they could find one...and even then, if it broke down: could they get it fixed?) In the mean time, less discerning customers could simply walk into a shop and buy Rolands' latest LCD menu driven nightmare with no hassel at all. returning to the broader picture... WHY have people been writing in saying (1) Don't talk about this, it's not Kraftwerk (2) ignoring the main issues and simply reducing this to an analogue vs. digital theme (3) or, if they DO actually address the issue, come out with all this apologist nonsense along the lines of "it's no big deal!" "not worth bothering about!" "other factors much more important!" Why all this denial? What are you afraid of? There are no individuals: we are all subjects of society. It is imperative to recognise the ideological straightjackets society holds us in, only then can we begin to deconstruct them. We are Musicians! It is our duty! Otherwise the man-machine equation becomes decidedly unbalanced... I will certainly not refrain from recommending members of this list to read Foucault or Althusser. Where on Earth does that guy get off telling me not to? What IS his agenda?? Why doesn't he want you to read these things? Why shouldn't we question along these lines? raise these issues? It is quite obvious to me that Ralf and Florian have a huge awareness in these areas. Their music could not have been made without it. Are we on this list supposed to be sycophantic computer geeks, drooling over some 9" oblong purple vinyl remix of Tour de France last seen on Emil Schults' private Bahamas golf course in 1987 ?? Never let anyone fool you into thinking "oh, that's not my field,I'll not think about that, I'll leave that to whoever's doing a Sociology degree" Take the responsibility! I give the last word to Maxime Schmitt, talking of Computerwelt.... " It's a political album. Totally. " Have fun! David Davis (who used to be a cat) (oops! ) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 18:57:57 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: TEE Question Really-From: David Davis > > I was always wondering why KW divided the song Trans Europe Express > into 3 tracks?! In my mind I consider it as a one single track. > There's no real differencies between the 3 parts, it's really a continous > song... > > So does anybody know why the 3rd part was called "Franz Schubert"? > maybe there's some melodies of Schubert musics included in the tune? > or what else? > > Tim > Franz Schubert isn't part of T.E.E. It is the following track, the beautiful ambient one with the G major (add9) sequence and lush reverbby mellotron stings! Delightful! A personal favourite of mine. The the mellotron fades out, and we segue gently in the vocodered tones of "Endless Endless" Oh joy! Rapture! How I ache when it does, paradoxically, END!!!! Trans Europe Express has the clanking "Metal On Metal" in the middle, then it reprises again afterwards. On the mix, the little section of portamentoing mellotron train doppler effects, linking T.E.E. and Metal on Metal is called "ABZUG" . (except, on the mix, the mellotron has been savagely removed and replaced with stupid digital string samples, utterly sterile. Yuk! ) yours informatively, David Davis ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 15:22:33 -0300 Subject: Re: TEE Question Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) >I was always wondering why KW divided the song Trans Europe Express >into 3 tracks?! In my mind I consider it as a one single track. >There's no real differencies between the 3 parts, it's really a continous >song... >So does anybody know why the 3rd part was called "Franz Schubert"? >maybe there's some melodies of Schubert musics included in the tune? >or what else? "Franz Schubert" isn't a part of "Trans Europe Express", but a independent song. I think that TEE is divided only in two parts, TEE and "Metal on Metal", as you can see in the cover and label lists. =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 14:41:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Aktivitaet 4 - Bootleg Vinyl LP Guide Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com My copy of "Central Passage" (LP) plays too fast! The only way I could listen to it was to record it on a variable speed cassette recorder so that the recording speed was too fast, hence, when played back at normal speed it would be slower, i.e., played back at proper speed. By the way, my CD of "Heute Abend" also plays at the wrong speed--I forget if slow or fast, as I couldn't listen all the way through! SInce then, I've been reluctant to purchase bootlegs. The best, in my experience, are "N1 to Zurich" and "Rebuilt in '92." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 12:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: Matthew Bruns On Mon, 13 May 1996, David Davis wrote: > to give an example...someone cited the Roland TR 808 as some sort of > example of musicians' idealism defeating capitalism. [snip] This is the _only_ economic analysis that you offer in this letter. It is only the second piece of evidence that you've offered in support of your notion that economics drives music. Let's look at both pieces of evidence. In the case of the 808, we have the "wishes" of Roland being overcome by artist choice. This example supports the idea that the wishes of the individual artist are stronger than the wishes of the economic power. In short, it >contradicts your own thesis<. Then we have the analogue vs digital debate, in which you spouted "analogue rules - digital is a plot by the man to screw musicians!" As compelling as this analysis is, it doesn't prove diddly squat! Furthermore, when you're shown examples of several bands who do very well using digital synths and bands who suck perfectly well using analogue, you refuse to respond to the point. Even further, we have the example of digital sampling, as brought up by another on the list, showing how the individual is empowered by new technology. Even further than that, I offered an analysis centering on dance music which again showed that factors other than economics were more important in music. You failed to respond to either of the above to pieces of evidence. I've got no problem with you offering your analysis, but you have to do more than just assert that economics is the key. To do that, you have to give us some new evidence, or show how the evidence we've got actually supports your notion. You've not done that. > returning to the broader picture... translation: leaving the substance of the debate. > WHY have people been writing in saying > > (1) Don't talk about this, it's not Kraftwerk Because they only want to talk about the band and don't care about your sloppy arguments and constant insults. > (2) ignoring the main issues and simply reducing this to an analogue vs. > digital theme Why did you refuse to reply to this line of analysis which refutes your notion? > (3) or, if they DO actually address the issue, come out with all this > apologist nonsense along the lines of "it's no big deal!" "not worth > bothering about!" "other factors much more important!" If it's nonsense, then why did you choose not to respond? It refutes your analysis. > Why all this denial? > What are you afraid of? > There are no individuals: we are all subjects of society. > It is imperative to recognise the ideological straightjackets society > holds us in, only then can we begin to deconstruct them. > We are Musicians! It is our duty! > Otherwise the man-machine equation becomes decidedly unbalanced... Great, just great. If this were true, then there should be evidence of it. Please produce it or shut up. > I will certainly not refrain from recommending members of this list to > read Foucault or Althusser. Where on Earth does that guy get off telling > me not to? What IS his agenda?? I'll tell you why I told you to refrain from silly comments like this: they completely lack substance. I can call you an uneducated ninny just as easily as you can, so why not actually offer some analysis and substance instead. I must say, though, that I'm pretty pleased to have been accused of being a pawn of the capitalists... > Why doesn't he want you to read these > things? Why shouldn't we question along these lines? raise these issues? I'm perfectly ok with questioning along whatever lines you want - you just have to make a substantive case, which you haven't. Offer the evidence and stop asserting. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 16:43:24 -0300 (EST) Subject: Re: Vocoder Formula Really-From: Eduardo Marcel Macan > Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) Hello Timour, remember me? :) > PROBLEM: > > So I tried some math expressions like: wave2=wave1*sin(t)*sin(t*200) > > where t is some time or sample variable, wave1=source, wave2=target sample > > it gives some amazing results but not really a vocoded voice... so > you have a suggestion, it's WELCOME! Try using a logical "AND" expression or anything to introduce periods of silence into your sampled wave, I once built a toy to do this in real time and It produced interesting results (after some patience, hardware tuning, signal equalizing, etc...) Imagine you have this: _ _ _ _ _ +1 / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ 0 \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ -1 Then you use a square wave to turn it on and off many times a second... ___ ___ ___ ___ __ +1 |__| |__| |__| |__| 0 \ _ _ _ \_AND__ / \___/ \ __|\ __|\ __ _ _ _ _ _ +1 / \| \_| \_/ \_/ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ 0 / \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ -1 / Or in other words, let it play for some (very small) amount of time then ignore it for another (small) amount of time and then turn on playing again. By varying the amount of time it plays and the time it doesn't you get different effects... I used it when I had an "electronic band" during high school here in Brazil, we also used a rudimentar Theremin we built, along with guitar pedals and all kind of stuff plugged on our old and cheap Yamaha PSR-?00s and Casios, good times :) lots of fun, lots of noise ... Strange things come out from a toy eletronic drum kit plugged on a distortion pedal :) Roboticamente; |\/| /\ ( /\ |\| ' | macan@dcc.unicamp.br | "I program my home computer, | | http://www.unicamp.br/~macan | beam myself into the future" --Kraftwerk | ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 13:32:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Vocoder Formula Really-From: stdwle@shsu.edu (W. Ladd Ellett) Get a vocoder! al la ELO & Kraftwerk. It is a separate piece of equipment - -NOT an addendum to a synth, as far as I have read. Good Luck. W.L.Ellett Email:stdwle@shsu.edu Web Page:http://www.shsu.edu/~stdwle/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 16:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: TEE Question Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >>I was always wondering why KW divided the song Trans Europe Express >>into 3 tracks?! In my mind I consider it as a one single track. >>There's no real differencies between the 3 parts, it's really a continous >>song... >>So does anybody know why the 3rd part was called "Franz Schubert"? >>maybe there's some melodies of Schubert musics included in the tune? >>or what else? >"Franz Schubert" isn't a part of "Trans Europe Express", but a independent >song. >I think that TEE is divided only in two parts, TEE and "Metal on Metal", as >you can see in the cover and label lists. In actuality, there are three parts contained within the theme on 'Trans-Europe Express'. They are "Trans-Europe Express", "Metal On Metal", and "Abzug". The English language versions of this record do not list "Abzug" as a separate track, but the non-English versions do. So, the non-English language versions actually contain 8 tracks listed as follows: 9:35 Europa Endlos 8:50 Spiegelsaal 6:10 Schaufensterpuppen 6:40 Trans Europa Express 2:10 Metall Auf Metall 4:42 Abzug 4:25 Franz Schubert 0:45 Endlos Endlos The English language versions of TEE do contain "Abzug", but it's just included as part of "Metal On Metal". All three tracks can be seen listed properly on 'The Mix'. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "From station to station..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 17:19:17 -0300 Subject: Re: Aktivitaet 4 - Bootleg Vinyl LP Gui Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) > SInce then, I've been reluctant to purchase bootlegs. The best, in >my experience, are "N1 to Zurich" and "Rebuilt in '92." My copy of "N1 to Zurich" has a problem in "Trans Europa Express": the laser of the CD-player jumps in a lot of points of the track, so I need to program out this one when I listening the CD. =8-{ IMHO, the best bootleg of the 1990/91 tour is "Live at Brixton Academy". The sound is superb and, as far as I know, this is the only one with a *complete* show, including all the opening and all tracks with no cuts!! The cover is very good, with a picture of part of the band at the stage (Florian Schneider omited ). =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #563 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #564 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 14 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 564 Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: Vocoder Formula ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 96 22:03 BST-1 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: nuts@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Nuttall) In-Reply-To: <199605122105.QAA06425@cs.uwp.edu> You arrogant twat. Your snobbery is absolutely despicable (and will, I fear, only serve to fuel the cliché of Oxbridge student). > I emplore all you blinkered exploited people out there to raise your > awareness of these issues. There are libraries full of relevent > material... > There is little point my trying to elaborate beyond these most basic of > points when many members of this list seem to be so unaware as to be > thinking "Who or what is Foucault!?" > ... > yours in desperate-awareness-raising-mode Are you a wind-up? The kind of issues that Foucault discusses would only become relevant were this discussion to be raised to a far higher level (that would be virtually irrelevant to Kraftwerk, I emplore (sic) you to notice). Tom ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 23:51:28 +0200 Subject: Re: Vocoder Formula Really-From: Paulo Mouat To really emulate a vocoder, you should at first feed the wave into a bank of band-pass filters and then the amplitude functions thus derived should control a second bank of filters tuned as the first. A second wave fed into the second bank will have the same characteristics as the first. In a 'robotized' voice, the control wave would be your voice, the second wave being some other sound, usually an analogue-type synthesized timbre. To do this by computer, i.e. without the actual gear, it's a bit complicated. You should process first the initial wave, creating a temporary file with the successive frames of the filter bank results, and then this set of values would serve as a series of parameters for filtering the second wave. As easy as pie, eh? :-) To avoid all this trouble, there is a piece of software that already does this, although I never experimented vocoding with it. It's called 'CSound' and I can tell you where to find it, if you're interested. Cheers! - -- ********************************* Paulo Mouat, mouat@telepac.pt ********************************* ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #564 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #565 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 15 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 565 Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: Vocoder Formula Re: TEE Question Re: TEE Question Solutions... Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... quality bootleg Anyway.... Re: TEE Question Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Vocode! Re: TEE Question (Les Mannequins = The Model?!?) Re: Vocode! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:58:53 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: David Davis Oh dear, a pawn of capitalism (is this guy for real ???) has ripped cultural theory to shreds! oh poor Foucault, may he rest in peace! Poor Althusser! Poor Derrida! Poor Barthes! Poor Lacan! texts will have to be re-written! Books burnt! Degree syllabusses (syllabi?) for the humanities completely changed! ***** MY POINT.... ***** Music does NOT exist in a vacuum, deriving solely from the intellect of its "author" It is produced in a cultural nexus, affected by a multitude of factors (some of which are economic). It is important to be aware of these factors. Krafterk would appear to be. If you think this point is false, then I suggest you read some of the above writers, who can set you straight a lot more eloquently than I. Anyway, who's gonna listen to me? My discourse is obviously invalid since I'm typing from a terminal in the Oxford University Computing Centre! Better not let on I'm queer as well then! (oops!) And Irish! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 14 May 96 09:32:54 -0400 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: "Bruce M. Lloyd" >Oh dear, > a pawn of capitalism (is this guy for real ???) has ripped >cultural theory to shreds! >oh poor Foucault, may he rest in peace! >Poor Althusser! Poor Derrida! Poor Barthes! Poor Lacan! >texts will have to be re-written! >Books burnt! >Degree syllabusses (syllabi?) for the humanities completely changed! > > > ***** MY POINT.... ***** > > Music does NOT exist in a vacuum, deriving solely from the intellect of >its "author" >It is produced in a cultural nexus, affected by a multitude of factors >(some of which are economic). It is important to be aware of these factors. >Krafterk would appear to be. > > >If you think this point is false, then I suggest you read some of the >above writers, who can set you straight a lot more eloquently than I. > >Anyway, who's gonna listen to me? >My discourse is obviously invalid since I'm typing from a terminal in the >Oxford University Computing Centre! >Better not let on I'm queer as well then! (oops!) >And Irish! My question is this: what does this have to do with Kraftwerk? They're using digital technology (as shown by the Mix). Get over it. Digital is here to stay. Get used to it. Bruce (Queer AND Irish? Wow.. double whammy! Now queer and CANADIAN is another story ... we're fabulous.. ;) ) ______________ Bruce M. Lloyd bml@bgi.on.ca ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:30:10 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: David Davis hello again my Kraftwerk friends, I was thinking some more over lunch about this discussion. Originally, I was trying to examine some of the wider societal issues which have affected Kraftwerk, and (especially electronic) music in general However since the majority of correspondants seem to be at pains to deny that music could be affected by these issues in the first place, it was necessary to backtrack and try and demonstrate the theoretical basis I am working from. (the simplest way to do this is to refer them to read some classic works on the subject, Althusser et al) As I said before, there is little point me trying to come up with "evidence" to answer the "points" various people have been making if they are so obviously unaware of all this theory It would perhaps be analogous to trying to discuss, say, the orbit of a comet (see! a Kraftwerk link! ) if my opponents believed that the Earth was flat and orbited by the Sun. There would simply be too much accepted knowledge that they were oblivious to ... sensible discussion would not be possible. I don't think it is "arrogant" to refer someone to Althusser if they have not previously come across any. It's just a sensible suggestion. If someone hadn't heard any Kraftwerk, I'd urge them to listen to that too. Societies DO blinker and exploit their subjects, myself included. Education systems are usually very sucessful in ensuring that may people never read Althusser or whatever. The concept of the "individual" is put to very good use in a consumer society! To the "pawn of capitalism" who did not believe... No-one is an "individual" We are all subjects of ideology To be reductionist- Thought is impossible without language. Language is produced from society. If we cannot or will not accept such basics as that, we are not going to get very far making any kind of cultural analyses on Kraftwerk. Musicians CAN escape some of societies straightjackets Kraftwerk are an inspiring example of that. If I didn't believe such things were possible, I'd just give up now and go and work for the Deutsche Bank! "and don't forget to take TIME OUT FOR **FUN** " -DEVO ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:05:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Vocoder Formula Really-From: pjschill@students.wisc.edu (Paul Schilling) I would agree: Get an inexpensive vocoder. You just won't get the same effect by fiddling with signal processing formulas. Vocoders are a lot more fun! Check out PAiA (http://www.paia.com/) They sell *very* inexpensive stuff (including an original analog vocoder), good quality. They don't show it on their web pages, but you can call them or order their catalog. Paul Schilling ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 17:31:48 +0200 Subject: Re: TEE Question Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) >Franz Schubert isn't part of T.E.E. >It is the following track, the beautiful ambient one with the G major >(add9) sequence and lush reverbby mellotron stings! Delightful! Oh, I never noticed that. In fact I have TEE on cassette, not the CD, so it's difficult to make difference between these continous tracks. However I listened it on a UK version CD, but never made attention on the track numbers... mea culpa. Scott says that the non-english versions of TEE contain Abzug... My cassette is the french edition ( you know, with "LES MANNEQUINS" ) and there's no Abzug track mentionned.... Anyway, Thanx Guys! Tim "... et nous brisons la glace.... nous sommes les mannequins" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 18:41:10 +0200 Subject: Re: TEE Question Really-From: Paulo Mouat > Scott says that the non-english versions of TEE contain Abzug... > My cassette is the french edition ( you know, with "LES MANNEQUINS" ) > and there's no Abzug track mentionned.... 'Abzug' is present in 'Trans Europa Express.' That's the only non-english version I have of TEE. I also have 'Trans-Europe Express' (note the dash between the first two words, not present in the german version), which does not contain, as was said, the aforementioned track. Best! - -- __|__ ___\_/___ \\\\\\ ___ Paulo Mouat, \\))))_ |___| mouat@telepac.pt ((((<_> |___| \\\\ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 14:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Solutions... Really-From: Tim Gross Vocoder Solution ++++++++++++++++ Not sure what Kraftwerk used but I know that the old roland vocoders are almost impossible to find. Big Daddy's Music in New York has only seen 1 Roland vocoder in like 20 years or something. Roland had 2-3 models I think. Current day solution- Paia Electronics sells a vocoder kit that you build. Ie pcb and all the parts.. sells for $99us Digital-Analogue-Roland-Money-Business-People +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Not sure what the motive is but; Roland just released the MC-303 529pounds Its a 303-808-909 in 1 box. I think its great. Its not an exact duplicate of all these machines but still for a poor student as myself it is a godsend. To the Analogue Fanatic true its not the same circuit. I dont think Roland will ever recreate that Diode Ladder that cost $1200 nowadays. ********************************************************************* Tim It's more fun to compute! twg4461@garnet.acns.fsu.edu ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 20:40:14 +0100 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: lbo >>inventented new sets of sound devices, and called them DIGITAL. >Digital only sounds like shit if you're too stupid to be able to program >Any berk can change the sounds on a Minimoog but it takes a true well, come on, this seem to me a typical religion war... analogue vs digital... it is out of doubt that both sounds have peculiar characteristic and that it is not worth the effort, or the waste of time, to try to obtain one's peculiar sound with the other's technology. not all are obliged to be geeks or to have days to spend in programming. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 20:40:47 +0100 Subject: quality bootleg Really-From: lbo well, in my opinion one of the best quality boot I have ever heard is "Save your software", it comes in translucid white-black vynil. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:09:33 -0400 Subject: Anyway.... Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com This has nothing to do with KW, if there are any Japan fans out there who know about lots of things - i was wondering from which synthesizers they got most of their sounds on "Tin Drum." Anyone? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 14 May 96 21:45:17 +0100 Subject: Re: TEE Question Really-From: marcus@canit.se (Marcus Ohlstrom) >Scott says that the non-english versions of TEE contain Abzug... >My cassette is the french edition ( you know, with "LES MANNEQUINS" ) >and there's no Abzug track mentionned.... Well, that track is for sure from The Man Machine, not from TEE. - -- Marcus Ohlstrom (marcus@canit.se) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 14 May 96 20:59 BST-1 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: nuts@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Nuttall) In-Reply-To: <199605141159.GAA02591@cs.uwp.edu> > Music does NOT exist in a vacuum, deriving solely from the intellect of > its "author" It is produced in a cultural nexus, affected by a multitude > of factors (some of which are economic). Is this anything more than a truism? Has anyone denied this *specific* point? > It is important to be aware of these factors. Is it? That seems to be a very post-modernist attitude and certainly wouldn't apply to those composers who would want to be writing for 'eternity', transcending the ephemeral, if you like. Would you say it is possible to live a life according to determinist principles? Would it not lose much of its meaning? Oh and my previous description of you as 'arrogant' was caused by your manner of prescribing Althusser and Foucault, not by the mere fact that you did so. Have you read any Karl Popper? Tom ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 14 May 96 16:18:20 EDT Subject: Vocode! Really-From: Thistlethwaite <100341.2320@CompuServe.COM> Paulo, Where do you find CSound it sounds intriguing...what do you need in terms of hardware requirements? Cheers, Tom ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 13:55:22 -0700 Subject: Re: TEE Question (Les Mannequins = The Model?!?) Really-From: l.meyer@ix.netcom.com (L. Meyer ) You wrote: >Really-From: marcus@canit.se (Marcus Ohlstrom) >>Scott says that the non-english versions of TEE contain Abzug... >>My cassette is the french edition ( you know, with "LES MANNEQUINS" ) >>and there's no Abzug track mentionned.... >Well, that track is for sure from The Man Machine, not from TEE. >-- > Marcus Ohlstrom (marcus@canit.se) I believe he was talking about "SHOWROOM DUMMIES", which is from TEE for sure. |_ |\/| --- L.Meyer@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 00:58:44 +0200 Subject: Re: Vocode! Really-From: Paulo Mouat > Where do you find CSound it sounds intriguing... You can find it at www.leeds.ac.uk/music/Man/c_front.html > what do you need in terms of hardware requirements? A 386 PC and a soundcard, at the very least. There are versions for Mac and diverse Unix platforms, including SG workstations. The issue about CSound is that it isn't very... friendly. It is in itself a whole 'programming' language, and it sure is powerful. It has the advantage of being public domain (totally free). Best! - -- __|__ ___\_/___ \\\\\\ ___ Paulo Mouat, \\))))_ |___| mouat@telepac.pt ((((<_> |___| \\\\ ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #565 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #566 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 15 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 566 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 09:43:34 +0200 Subject: Re: TEE Question (Les Mannequins = The Model?!?) Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) Of course: Les Mannequins = The Showroom Dummies, not the Model... - -- _______________________________________________________________________ /\___ Timour JGENTI _______ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE /\ / / timour.jgenti@ifp.fr __ DIMA, groupe Image __________/ / \/_____________________________________________________________________\/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 13:06:23 +0100 (BST) Subject: Foucault about Kraftwerk Really-From: Kevin Busby Really-From: David Davis > Poor Althusser! Poor Derrida! Poor Barthes! Poor Lacan! [...] > Anyway, who's gonna listen to me? > My discourse is obviously invalid since I'm typing from a terminal in the > Oxford University Computing Centre! > Better not let on I'm queer as well then! (oops!) > And Irish! You appear to feel persecuted, so let's have a look at the original posting you made:- | In the decades that followed, evil men called capitalists found that | everyone already had these useful devices, and their markets wee saturated. | They were very unhappy because they could not make any money, so they | inventented new sets of sound devices, and called them DIGITAL. | They sold these new digital devices to musicians across the world,and | made lots of money again.This made the capitalists very happy, and they | said "this is good" | Unfortunately though, there was one small problem...the new digital | devices sounded like SHIT..... The phrasing is provocative, and not surprisingly, you provoked. Talk of a "cultural nexus, affected by a multitude of factors" and the other trimmings came somewhat later. No disrespect intended - but from my perspective (and we each have a different perspective, remember) this was flame-bait which baited flames. Regards Kevin - -- "Your thesis - it's shit" - Foucault. :-) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 13:59:46 +0100 (BST) Subject: Japan Really-From: David Davis > > This has nothing to do with KW, if there are any Japan fans out there who > know about lots of things - i was wondering from which synthesizers they got > most of their sounds on "Tin Drum." Anyone? > I think Mr Richard Barbieri made extensive use of a Korg MS 20 (a patchable monosynth) Most of the drum sounds on Tin Drum are filtered and treated acoustic drums. But sadly there is no Rob Dean guitar at all. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 14:04:08 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: David Davis Dear Tom... "MEANING" ??? What on earth is that! Your signifiers are slipping badly! I have neither read nor taken any Poppers. Should I ? Maybe it would losen me up a bit! "Don't forget to take TIME OUT FOR FUN..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 11:12:02 -0500 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: Jason Musser >> Music does NOT exist in a vacuum, deriving solely from the intellect of >> its "author" It is produced in a cultural nexus, affected by a multitude >> of factors (some of which are economic). > >Is this anything more than a truism? Has anyone denied this *specific* >point? Yeah. Duh. >Oh and my previous description of you as 'arrogant' was caused by your >manner of prescribing Althusser and Foucault, not by the mere fact that >you did so. I agree. Then you complained because no one had read them, and later you complained about people asking you who they were. If you were really interested in the discussion, you would perhaps have condescended to tell us what those people have written that's so pertinent. I don't know about your manner of expression re-inforcing Oxbridge stereotypes in particular, but it did have the ring about it of a philosophy undergrad under the spell of a new idea, and excited because he felt he was one up on the students of the more vulgar disciplines like engineering. Anyway, what all this seems to have to do with Kraftwerk is that it seems like they've just turned into consumers of commercially available hardware, rather than developing unique stuff for themselves, and it's dragged down the quality of their output. Maybe I'm wrong and they were always buying stuff off the shelf, though. I don't know much about what was available to consumers and when back in the '70s. - -Jason ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 21:29:40 +0000 Subject: "Freispiel" Documentary Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de The "Tageszeitung" reports that Karl Bartos appeared in a German documentary film, "Freispiel". Any more details? Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 21:29:41 +0000 Subject: Colloquium Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de I found the following at one of the WWW pages of the "Darkstar" label. Maybe it's of interest to some of the German subscribers... Klaus Zaepke COLLOQUIUM COLLOQUIUM I Dark Star -CD / Indigo (1367-2) Am 13.12.93 gruendeten Carlos Peron, Zack Yelezoff, Stuart Argabright, Martin Rev und Fred Szymanzki den Elektronikclub "Colloquium". Zum Ziel machten sich diese Herren, die besten Elektronikmusikanten der Welt zusammenzubringen. Nun liegt die erste CD dieses Clubs vor: "Colloquium I". Diese Compilation enthaelt rare, zum Teil unveroeffentlichte Stuecke der einzelnen Mitglieder. Ein zweiter Teil ist bereits in Vorbereitung. Neue Clubmitglieder werden sein: Franz Treichler und The Young Gods, Kraftwerk, Mort Garson u.v.a. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 21:29:40 +0000 Subject: Re: TEE Question Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de > The English language versions of TEE do contain "Abzug", but it's > just included as part of "Metal On Metal". All three tracks can be > seen listed properly on 'The Mix'. Yes, they're listed on "The Mix", but not really properly: What is credited as "Abzug" is in fact "Metall auf Metall" and vice versa. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 21:29:41 +0000 Subject: Frontpage Rumour Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de According to the current issue of the "Frontpage" magazine it is rumoured that Kraftwerk are planning to tour Europe this winter. This rumour is described as being "more substancial than usual"... It is also reported that they intend to perform new songs during this tour, therefore they would have to release an album beforehand, to thwart bootlegging. (Sorry, Scott, but that's what's written there. Funny coincidence... ;-) ) Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:54:56 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: David Davis In response to Jason's thoughts... Yes! Look at how Kratwerk originally had to strive for the instruments they wanted to use! Florian had to BUILD their electronic percussion with his own two hands! I remember Ralf saying that drummers had found their treatment of acoustic drums quite unacceptable. The established musical mainstream systems refused to have anything to do with Kraftwerk ideas, but they had the balls to go beyond them. Can you imagine if Florian had gone into his local Dusseldorf music shop, and asked "can I buy a drum machine please?" They would have told him "Don't be so silly, there's no such thing!" Where would we be if Florian had just said "er...OK then," and hired some disco tub thumper for Kraftwerk's rhythm section?!! Ultimately, their innovations have spawned a new mainstream, where drum machines are quite normal....their own system is threatening to engulf them. Capitalism probes it's evil feelers into every area, nothing is left unscathed for long. It is a difficult problem Ralf said in 1991..."we have been striving for this for 20 years...so what do we do? Go back to marching bands?" I would be very critical of the notion that analogue vs. digital is "just a matter of taste" AESTHETICS ARE NOT SUBJECTIVE AESTHETICS ARE POLITICAL. ********** some more general thoughts on this discussion... Interesting things happen when "threatening" ideas are presented to a community. Increasingly, no attempt is made to refute the ideas themselves. Instead, the validity of the speaker himself is challenged. His authority to be talking at all is questioned. Much time is spent demonstrating how he has transgressed the RULES of the discourse, and so therefore what he says can be discounted. so for example, endless discussion is devoted to whether it is correct or polite to refer someone else to Althusser, conveniently masking the real problems. Rules and politics of discourse are there to be deconstructed. To interpollate myself as a subject of this mailing list I must use a computer with an email facility and speak English...is that all? Seemingly not. It is remarkably easy to type things in a way which transgresses the other hidden boundaries which police our dealings with each other. You must be aware: rules exist to provide power to the ruler. Power is the ability to exercise discourse in the form of your chosing. Refute THAT without simply providing an example of it in action!!! Bye David Davis ( who has a degree in CHEMISTRY, not philosophy!!! ) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 96 16:17:54 -0400 Subject: Tour and Album? Really-From: "Bruce M. Lloyd" All, Just had a co-worker tell me that he heard on MuchMusic (Canada's version of MTV) that Kraftwerk were planning a tour and were going to introduce a new album by this summer. Fact or fiction? Bruce ____ Bruce M. Lloyd, bml@bgi.on.ca, BGI Systems Integration Check out the QuickDraw GX Fan Club : _____ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 17:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: TEE Question Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >> The English language versions of TEE do contain "Abzug", but it's >> just included as part of "Metal On Metal". All three tracks can be >> seen listed properly on 'The Mix'. >Yes, they're listed on "The Mix", but not really properly: What is >credited as "Abzug" is in fact "Metall auf Metall" and vice versa. Allow me to clarify. Initially, by "seen listed properly" I just meant that the titles of all three songs are listed in the track listing on 'The Mix'. Since you brought up mention of switched titles however, I felt inclined to look up this matter. Here's what I found: These songs appear to be labeled incorrectly, as Klaus mentioned, but I suggest that this may just be a typical KW musical theme crossover rather than an error. It seems to me that KW have often liked to allow their musical themes to be able to spill over into one another. We saw these theme crossovers back in '77 with "Franz Schubert" leading into "Endless Endless", which in turn completed the cycle by leading back into "Europe Endless". We again saw such theme crossovers on 1981's 'Computer World' album. "Numbers" spills right over into "Computer World..2" without a seam. Also, the link between "Home Computer" and "It's More Fun To Compute" is obvious. As a final example of this prior to 'The Mix', we saw theme crossover on 1986's 'Electric Cafe' album. "Boing Boom Tschak", "Techno Pop", and "Musique Non Stop" all link into one another. When 'The Mix' came out in 1991, we were again able to see theme crossover in effect to an even greater degree than before, this time taking "Home Computer" and "It's More Fun To Compute" and combining the two of them together to create track #10, simply called "Homecomputer". We also saw "Boing Boom Tschak" and "Musique Non Stop" combined to form track #11, called "Music Non Stop". So, I feel that they did the same exact thing with "Abzug" and "Metal On Metal". I think that KW probably sees the 2 songs as part of each other, part of the common theme, and thus the names are interchangeable to some degree. Comments on this idea? Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Sounds from Radioland..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 17:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Frontpage Rumour Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >It is also reported that they intend to perform new songs during this >tour, therefore they would have to release an album beforehand, to thwart >bootlegging. >(Sorry, Scott, but that's what's written there. Funny coincidence... ;-) ) I'm not sorry to hear that at all. Whether they're concerned about bootlegging or not, any confirmation of them releasing new material will make me a happy camper indeed. Kraftwerk has made statements showing concern about bootlegging about as much as they've announced many an upcoming concert which never actually panned out in the end. Since KW has made comparitively few statements giving bootlegging the green light, perhaps this means there *will* be new material coming after all. :O) Let's keep our antennae crossed. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "I'm the antenna catching vibration..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 96 22:32 BST-1 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: nuts@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Nuttall) In-Reply-To: <199605151307.IAA11466@cs.uwp.edu> > "MEANING" ??? What on earth is that! Your signifiers are slipping > badly! Becomes pointless. Seems arbitrary and irrelevant. Do you understand the connection I'm making? Tom ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 13 May 96 20:49:57 +0000 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: Brendan Heading >I state categorically... > - It is utterly naive to think that music is somehow removed from the >material realities of its means of production, that instead its >development is determined soley by some artistic ideal of musicians. It's also utterly naive to think that owning an analogue synth turns you into an instant musician. >I emplore all you blinkered exploited people out there to raise your >awareness of these issues. There are libraries full of relevent material... Oh, I'm sorry, oh wise one, to have crossed your most wonderous shadow. You pompous bastard. >One parting thought, however.... > name me ONE British "new-wave synth pop" band (for want of a better >"term")... > Orchestral Manoeuvres > The Human League > Ultravox / John Foxx > Gary Numan etc etc etc etc > ... who did not spend the latter half of the 80s making crap DIGITAL >records that were a shadow of the former analogue electronic heights. >You should be able to answer that one without any recourse to Althusser !! Are you telling me that analogue synths somehow make you a great musician and keyboard player ? It's a matter of opinion whether or not the above music was crap. Certainly I think it was more down to the artists running out of steam. Let me present to you Jean Michel Jarre, whose latest work, Chronologie, is one of the greatest keyboard works yet composed by one person. It is mostly digital. What about the Mix, I take it you don't like it ? |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| -- I didn't want to make music. I didn't want to be a robot, even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years..." --Wolfgang Fleur, leaving Kraftwerk in 1987. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 15 May 96 12:44:30 +0100 Subject: Re: TEE Question (Les Mannequins = The Model?!?) Really-From: marcus@canit.se (Marcus Ohlstrom) >>Well, that track is for sure from The Man Machine, not from TEE. > I believe he was talking about "SHOWROOM DUMMIES", which is from >TEE for sure. Ooops! I was thinking about The Model. Sorry... - -- Marcus Ohlstrom (marcus@canit.se) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 19:15:37 -0400 Subject: Florian's drums Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Didn't Florian take a DRUM MACHINE (swishy box) out of an organ and rip it apart so the sounds could be accessed via metal on metal circuit completion - ie. hitting metal pads with metal "knitting needles?" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 19:29:04 -0400 Subject: HomeComp. Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Does anybody know the notes of the sine wavish scale in the rhythmic sections of Home Computer? I'm not a "real" musician so I only know the generic notes on a keyboard, as opposed to in some scale or whatever..... ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #566 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #567 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 16 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 567 Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... capitalism's evil feelers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 23:25:56 -0400 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Without getting arrogantly philisophical, I think digital itself is a good technology. It can be used for many things. The thing is, most synth manufacturers, pretty much from day one, have strived to imitate "real" instruments. The culmination of this, right now, is physical modeling. I do think that manufacturers care more about the dollar than about innovative electronic music, so they make their instruments for the masses. Many of these hellish "digital wonder toys" are used in film etc. I don't think innovative electronic music can be made with a Korg M1 and a SY99 alone. In fact, I hate them. I do think that certain digital technologies could be put to much better use. It is not the technology that sucks - EMS had a digital sequencer out in the 70's - it's the companies that are to blame for this. Kraftwerk may 'kling' to an "electronic folk music" ideal - but in reality - most "folks" don't have a Kling Klang studio to go to everyday. Even Kraftwerk has to branch away from "what is available" and go deeper. That's where innovative music comes from. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 22:50:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: capitalism's evil feelers Really-From: Jason Musser Just because big companies are producing complicated and expensive gear that sometimes aims for the lowest common denominator really doesn't prevent a young Florian-type from turning his back on it and building something new from scratch. So capitalism's not stopping anyone from sitting around and building new instruments in his free time. The problem seems to be that once big corporations start recognizing that they can make big money by working hard and employing lots of people to develop and manufacture new musical and recording gear, then it's really hard for an individual to create something that seems impressive in comparison. Everyone's expectations are raised. This is a problem I'm having in trying to decide on a design project for my electrical engineering degree. I certainly want to build something having to do with music, but it's difficult to hit upon something sufficiently simple for me to be able to build while at the same time being something I can't just go out and buy off the shelf for a tenth of the price. Some of the incentive is definitely gone for expending a lot of effort to build things. You kind of just have to commit to doing it solely for the sake of learning. I learned a lot during the course of building that compressor that I spent $150+ to build, but when I want something to sound decent, I use the one I bought used at Guitar Center for fifteen bucks. And I have become a lot more productive musically and improved a lot as a player since I got the MIDI gear. So there are good things and bad things about stuff like this becoming big business. I wonder, does anyone have any ideas how a different economic system than capitalism would lead to a better state of affairs? I'm not challenging--just asking. What would be a better state of affairs, anyway? Is it really the fault of rapacious corporations that everyone's forced pretty much only to choose from digital synthesizers, or is it really due to the fact that it is pretty nice to have everything be sequencable and dependable and reproducable and affordable even if there is a cost in terms of flexibility? And companies are starting to produce analogue synthesizers again. There's some red synthesizer I've seen advertized that's supposedly analogue, and there's also some other one I saw recently, then there's this Fat Man analogue MIDI synth you can buy as a kit from Paia. It kind of seems that people who want analogue synths are finally becoming vocal enough that companies are responding. Regarding the presentation of threatening ideas and what happens to the prestor, you seem to be saying that the majority of the members of the mailing list have implicitly agreed to hold certain opinions and that when you burst in with your radical notions, everyone jumped on you. I think that what you said was not even that radical or opposed to the general concensus here. If you'd said "it stinks that the big companies only make stuff they know they can sell to a wide, uncritical audience," then everyone would have grumbled in agreement. You did transgress some of the tacitly agreed upon boundaries of the list by suggesting that we all needed to run out and digest your reading list or be damned to live a life of ignorance. Perhaps you just tend to talk that way, and you didn't intend to sound insulting, but honestly, didn't you have some small desire, when you began dropping names and complaining that no one had read them, to make everyone else feel that they were less intelligent than you? Weren't you intentionally trying to in some way hurt the members of the mailing list who didn't rush to agree with you? Your answer doesn't really matter, because that's the way it appeared to most of us. The rules that police our dealings with each other here seem to be that most of us expect to be addressed with minimal respect until we fail to address someone else that way. This is not because we're all wearing halos or anything. Rather, it serves our own interests. I suggest that politics of discourse exist to make everyday interactions more efficient. The members of the list generally seem to prefer that everyone be tolerably polite so we can talk about Kraftwerk. When someone goes and acts like a jerk, then it's like someone has stepped up to our table at a cafe and started shouting at us. Not only do we have to wait for that person to be quiet, we also have to wait till everyone else who was offended settles down again. I don't think there's anything sinister in our wanting to derive pleasure from the conversation on the mailing list. We might also have derived pleasure from your presentation of your (or who's ever) ideas, if you had not presented them in a manner that we know from experience will only disrupt the list for a week. So anyway, tell us what Kraftwerk should be doing. Since they're not dead yet, we might as well figure out what they could be doing to really be of use to us. (It seems like they're probably happy enough with themselves, but that doesn't do us any good.) It seems kind of futile for anyone to try to keep up with every new gizmo that comes out and try to make sense of it all. If they're trying to always be the first to use the newest technology in creative ways, they're going to need a lot more that two people these days. It seems like they need to abandon that approach, because they'll always be learning how to use new gear without ever having any time to be creative with it before the next new package arrives at the loading dock. Maybe this is why it's so long between releases. Maybe they should just pick out their favorite units and always use them for every album. Kind of like a rock band that uses the same instruments on every song. Or a symphony orchestra. It doesn't seem like they every fully exploited every last aspect of their old analogue gear. And neither did the rest of the world, once everyone else got hold of the stuff. Actually, I guess what they should do is pick out OUR favorite units and always use them, which would probably mean that Florian would have to dust out those flutes. - -Jason ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #567 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #568 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Friday, 17 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 568 Re: New Electronic Album with a Kraftwerk-Influence.. Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #567 Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #567 Vocoder info. Aktivitaet 4 - 'The 1993 Kraftwerk Convention' ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 May 96 08:06:25 EDT Subject: Re: New Electronic Album with a Kraftwerk-Influence.. Really-From: Roland Metzger <76113.2741@CompuServe.COM> Here's a little something I got from the Depeche Mode Mailing List. This is something I'll definitely be looking forward to...: From: bratmix@netcom.com (Daniel Barassi) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 17:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: BRAT/Electronic (No DM) OK...I'm getting flooded with private emails (many of which, btw, are to bogus address, or bad addresses, since they keep bouncing back to me). Regardless, apparently a few of you saw my little "OnNow" thing near my signature at the bottom of the few emails I've sent, so, to save me more private emails, here's all the info: Electronic have a new CD coming out (according to the press release that came with the advance CD) July 9th. It's called Raise The Pressure. The tracks are as follows: 1 - Forbidden City (first single) 2 - For You 3 - Dark Angel 4 - One Day 5 - Until The End Of Time *6 - Second Nature (I love this track) *7 - If You've Got Love *8 - Out Of My League *9 - Interlude *10- Freefall *11- Visit Me 12- How Long *13- Time Can Tell *=my personal picks. Neil Tennant/Chris Lowe are NOT on this release. The guest musicians are: Karl Bartos (ex-Kraftwerk) - keyboards Denise Johnson (Primal Scream) - Vocals Ged Lynch - Drums And Percussion Danny Saber - Organ Guy Pratt - Bass Overall, an interesting album. Worth picking up, but takes a few listenings to get used to it. Don't base the album by the first single. It's not really reflective of the album as a whole. *DISCLAIMER* No, I will not tape this for you No, I will not upload samples No, I will not play it over the phone The only reason I'm volunteering the info is because the release is NOT a "security release" (like SOFAD was). "Security Release" means that if you even *breathe* details of the record before it comes out, Warner will come and do you harm. :) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 May 96 09:27:22 EDT Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #567 Really-From: Thistlethwaite <100341.2320@CompuServe.COM> Man Machine, >I do think that manufacturers care more about the dollar than about innovative >electronic music, so they make their instruments for the masses. Manufacturers of technological musical instruments have without a doubt to strike a balance between creativity and finance. However your comment is fairly out of order here and reflects perhaps a degree of unfamiliarity with the delicate balance between R+D departments and the rest of the company. These research groups are allocated finance and are often pretty free to do what they will. Alesis for example have a fairly creative R+D department who listen to musicians and try and tailor products to their needs. I was recently talking to someone who worked on the development of the famous JD-800 and the Emu EIV and the Akai S3000 series; products which are surely key in producing innovative electronic music. Undoubtedly, many products are produced with the sole intention of making money and hold little interest for some people, but there are people out there who want the General Midi boxes of this world, and if that helps them to be creative and maybe inspire them to go onto greater things then that cannot be a bad thing. >I don't think innovative electronic music can be made with a Korg M1 and a SY99 alone. Infact, I hate them. This is quite an incredible statement you are making here. Analogue synths are undergoing a massive resurgence through fashion and people's exposure to electronic music created with analogue synths. The synthesizer was designed to try and emulate sounds as its name would suggest...only through abuse and experimentation did it come to mean something different. Think about the TB-303 designed to create 'realistic' bass lines, and one cannot forget the TR-808 with its 'realistic' drum sounds. Through musicians not having the money to buy new gear, these machines came to be something different...the Detroit techno scene is a prime example where through lack of resources the TB-303 came to mean something entirely different to what the R+D department tried to create. While the M1 is more of a sample playback machine the SY99 is a synthesizer in its own right. So many digital machines these days have resonant filters and basic waveforms, surely innovative electronic music can be made with them. There is more to life than knobs and sliders, dodgy tuning and a warmer sound. All the early digital synths are all that is really available to the poor musician as analogue prices have become ridiculously inflated. Are you not a victim of your own prejudice? Machines are just tools, which people should use and abuse to create music. This analogue resurgence is essentially elitist and many people don't have the money. They are undoubtedly good machines but stating that innovative electronic music cannot be made on digital machines is pure snobbery. Later on, Tom ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:54:03 -0400 Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #567 Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Tom: Ok ok, so I'm a little frustrated with my machines right now and I needed to vent. The thing is, I really haven't heard that much innovative digital electronic music - made with M1's etc. I think a DX7 IS a good machine - because it is deep and requires learning - a new kind of learning - to use it. Maybe I'm a lousy programmer, but my JD-800 is a bit boring - it's stale in the fact that everything is not integrated like on some analogs - ie. the LFO's aren't fast enough and there is no pulse width modulation. There is a PWM waveform, but it is burned into the machine. My PRO1 on the other hand, can be twisted and bent and shaped into oblivion. I wish they made a digital machine like that (perhpas a K2500?) Perhaps I overstated when I said that innovative music can't be made on those 2 machines (M1 and SY99) - creativity, i think, accounts for innovation much more than the machines. If you have any cool tips or tricks, please share :-) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 16:02:34 +0200 Subject: Vocoder info. Really-From: Paulo Mouat Since many people asked for more precise info on vocoders, I'm posting this on the list to reach them all at the same time. Regarding the vocoder, I'll quote a message posted in the 'analogue-heaven' mail list: " This is how vocoders work: Analyser section. Imagine a graphic equalizer (say, 14 bands) with an audio output for each channel. All faders are set to maximum. The sound input is called the modulator or exciter. Each audio-signal goes to an envelope follower, that outputs a voltage proportional to the loudness of the sound. This produces 14 voltages that make up the spectrum. If you hook up LED voltage meters to these signals, you'd have a spectrum analyser. Synthesizer section. Now imagine a similar setup [in addition to the one described above]: Graphic equalizer with individual outputs, all faders set to maximum [bands tuned as the analyser]. The sound input is called the carrier. The 14 outputs go to VCAs that are controlled by the analyser voltages. The outputs [of this section] are then mixed. Vocoders usually have 10-20 bands. The lowest filter is lowpass, the highest is highpass, the rest are band-pass. The filter frequencies are usually logarithmically distributed between 100Hz and 5000Hz, as this is the most important for intelligible speech. The filters are much steeper than on a regular EQ (24-54 dB/octave). " I hope this has explained much of what was asked. Best! - -- __|__ ___\_/___ \\\\\\ ___ Paulo Mouat, \\))))_ |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt ((((<_> |___| \\\\ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 May 96 18:51:21 EDT Subject: Aktivitaet 4 - 'The 1993 Kraftwerk Convention' Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> 'The 1993 Kraftwerk Convention' A review by Stewart Ord Aktivitaet 4 - August 1993 Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * On the 21st of February, the second annual Kraftwerk convention was held at the Roscrea Hotel in Blackpool. If you weren't there, then where were you?! Like last years event, it was arranged and organised by Paul Wilkinson and the tickets officially went on sale in January, advertised in 'Record Collector' and Aktivitaet and by word of mouth from those who attended last years convention. (Hands up who noticed the spelling mistake on the ticket!) Long before the 11 o'clock start people were turning up and getting their place sorted out for a good view of the videos and band and hopefully somewhere close to the bar. For the very early birds there was a good chance to get copies of Aktivitaet that they were missing as well as the added bonus of a 'Convention Special' issue, created especially for the convention as a one-off. People had travelled the length and breadth of the country and there were even representatives from Sweden. Good music reaches far and wide! Paul kicked off the convention by welcoming everybody and announcing the itinerary for the day, which consisted of videos, the group and finally finishing off with more videos. And so the videos started and the floor was quickly covered by cross-legged people staring wide-eyed at the TV screen. There were a few rare items shown, including Kraftwerk's portion of the 'Stop Sellafield' television programme from last year and some hilarious foreign TV interviews with Ralf's dummy. Elektro Kinetik carried on from the videos with their own 'voice of energy' announcing them. The trio played faithful versions of the tracks we know so well and even played some that Kraftwerk themselves have not played live for some time now. The observant people there will have noticed the TV showing their own computer graphics, designed by John Shilcock. At times they mimicked Kraftwerk very well, coming out to the audience with their small electronic box-of-tricks during 'Pocket Calculator', leaving the stage one at a time after their own little solos and Shirleyann Davies (the one that didn't smile!) playing an electronic wind instrument, Elektro Kinetik's very own Florian! For many people, this was the highlight of the convention, some people going to the extent of taping and videotaping them. One criticism though ... the hair will have to go! What came next marred the proceedings slightly. Paul Wilkinson and some friends came on and played a 25 minute impromptu version of 'Pocket Calculator' / 'Dentaku' / 'Taschenrechner' / 'Mini Calculateur' et al. It was probably fun for those playing, but got a little tedious for everyone else. To finish off the day there was a video request spot which the 'Autobahn' cartoon easily won along with the German TV show clip of 'The Robots' from 1991. Someone also interviewed some of the convention-goers for a local radio show in Aberdeen (Northsound). I don't know if this was aired, but I hope it was. (It was, though it was not on for long - IAC.) Throughout the day there were various tapes playing in the background, including probably the first public airing of Elektric Music's 'TV', which met with very favourable comments. (In fact, it was played several times due to the amount of requests.) Another tape played was a recording of Ralf's answering machine, which some fans had 'phoned earlier in the day. Unfortunately, he was out and did not 'phone back before the day was out, if indeed he did 'phone at all! All in all, it was a most enjoyable day, where people met quite a few others with the same musical taste and swapped stories and experiences with each other. It would have been nice if some traders were there with little stalls to sell or swap merchandise, but there were only a few, selling a few bits and pieces. One person I saw had only three LPs with him which he tried to sell at extraordinarily high prices. Hopefully there will be more merchandise on sale next year. The only question left is ... will there be a 'Kraftwerk Convention '94'? I for one hope so. See you there. - - END -- ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #568 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #569 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Saturday, 18 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 569 Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... kwerk convention? Imports / exports - kraftwerk prices Andy Warhol and Kraftwerk Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:36:41 +0100 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Really-From: David Davis > > > >So it is "ridiculous" to suppose that politico-economic forces in society >have any influence on the instruments which are available for musicians in >that society to use? Economic forces do have an impact on the instrumentation that is available. The laws of demand and supply ensure this. There is, however, no sinister conspiracy for any other reason than profit. Digital devices were marketed as replacements for analogue ones. Much the same method was used with CDs superceding records. A replacement product can tap into a much larger market than a complimentary product. > Members on this list "cannot believe" that I am referring to these >connections? The instruments available for musicians to use have no effect on >the music which they manage to produce? I do however, violently disagree with >them. I strongly agree that instrumentation affects the quality of the music. >Naturally the state has conviently managed to ensure that they have never >engaged their brains to really consider these questions...Certainly they Sorry old fruit, but this is where you lose it. Suggesting that there is a state conspiracy. I really can't expand my brain to absorb the implications of your statement. I'd be interested to know what advantages are provided to the state by different types of instrument. > It is utterly naive to think that music is somehow removed from the >material realities of its means of production, that instead its >development is determined soley by some artistic ideal of musicians. Again you're speaking sense, but I still don't understand this state of conspiracy which disturbs you. >There is little point my trying to elaborate beyond these most basic of >points when many members of this list seem to be so unaware as to be You clearly have a low regard for the intelligence of the members of this fine list. I'm afraid your thinking appears rather confused. >One parting thought, however.... > name me ONE British "new-wave synth pop" band (for want of a better >"term")... > Orchestral Manoeuvres > The Human League > Ultravox / John Foxx > Gary Numan etc etc etc etc > ... who did not spend the latter half of the 80s making crap DIGITAL These bands did produce some rubbish in the late 80's. However, HL and Ultravox produced one album each. OMD didn't produce anything during this period. Gary Numans output has been 'mixed' since the late 70's. Digital, analogue, electric or accoustic. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:43:23 +0100 Subject: kwerk convention? Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) Is anyone interested in a Kraftwerk convention in London? I would particularly like to know the level of interest amongst those of you in mainland Europe. London would be easy to reach, either via the chunnel or by plane. Those of you in the US would also be welcome, but I realise travelling that distance is more of a problem. London would have the added advantage of being a place many people go to for a holiday. Therefore you could take a holiday and attend a convention. Brian Please note: I am not saying there definitely will be a convention. It is a possibility I would like to consider. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:46:22 +0100 Subject: Imports / exports - kraftwerk prices Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Hi Brian, > >Would you be able to buy me some KW imports if I sent you the money? I'm >looking for the German versions of several of their albums. How much would >they cost? I've had several requests privately mailed to me (mainly from North America)along similar lines. Perhaps other people can mail their experiences of transactions which have been initiated through this list. If I can be convinced that a satisfactory method exists I MAY consider doing it. Most of the requests I've had have been for live Kraftwerk videos which are easily available to me. My main objection is that people may be disappointed with the quality and not be happy with the price they have paid. Additionally I don't know the cost of postage for this sort of thing - presumably it would have to be 'Recorded Delivery' as we call it here. The easiest solution is if you know anyone coming here for a holiday or to work to buy them. They're widely available in the London shopping areas. >Do you think I could pay less if I found someone in Germany to >buy them for me? Good question! The last time I was in Germany was November 94. I had chance to look around record shops. The ones I visited actually had a smaller choice of GERMAN Kraftwerk CD's than I'd seen in the UK. I found the prices to be higher than what I would pay in the UK for the UK version. However, they were slightly cheaper than what I would pay in the UK for the same (German) version on import. I ended up not buying anything as the savings seemed marginal. As a ROUGH guide, imports here seem to range from 17 UK pounds up to 25. I'll give you exact prices next time I write. If someone posts ther German prices this issue will be resolved. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:44:38 +0100 Subject: Andy Warhol and Kraftwerk Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) I recently was wondering whether Andy Warhol and Kraftwerk ever met? Andy and Kraftwerk were both into making 'statements' about anything and everything. For example, Andy convinced a rather unfortunate fellow to live permanently in the 'Factory' toilets. The 'Toilet Man' gave it a hell of a try, eventually dying from lack of fresh air, exercise and an excess of drugs. This sort of extreme statement may be comparable with what Kraftwerk got up to in the late 70's. Any thoughts on this? Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:54:31 +0100 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Anyway, what all this seems to have to do with Kraftwerk is that >it seems like they've just turned into consumers of commercially >available hardware, rather than developing unique stuff for >themselves, and it's dragged down the quality of their output. >Maybe I'm wrong and they were always buying stuff off the shelf, >though. I don't know much about what was available to consumers >and when back in the '70s. > In the 70's far fewer people were producing electronic instrumentation. Therefore it was easier to lead. Additionally, there were obvious advantages to building you own kit, because of the limits to what could be bought off the shelf. There's no way a couple of middle aged musicians could compete with one of the major electronics companies, let alone the plethura which abounds. Brian ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #569 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #570 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Sunday, 19 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 570 Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: Andy Warhol and Kraftwerk Re: M1SY99...? Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... MST3K Emulator ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:50:28 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: David Davis > Becomes pointless. Seems arbitrary and irrelevant. Do you understand the > connection I'm making? > > Tom > No ! Is that ironic, I wonder..... A final counterpoint to all those apologists for the capitalist state... "POLITENESS" A remarkably trivial and simplistic ploy Yet a surprisingly and hugely succesful one How many cruel and manipulative acts are carried out behind a veneer of politeness? And how many times will a crucial message be ignored because it does not conform the rules of politeness ? Remember: discourse is power And power is the ability to chose the form of your discourse. "politeness" is a wonderful example of such a form. It is defined by those in power, to maintain that power. And it is made sure that the oppressed use it too, and even aspire to and respect it. For a brilliant satire of this phenomenon, see MONTY PYTHON'S FLYING CIRCUS, BBC television 1971 in the sketch about Dennis & Dinsdale the two London gangsters (with Spiny Norman, the giant invisible hedgehog). To anyone still trying to sit peacefully at the Kraftwerk cafe table I would shout " GET UP ! YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE BILL !!!! " But that's pretty much all I can think of to say about this matter. Can we go back to discussing whether on not Trans Europe Express has a hyphen now please? Or Wolfgang Flur an umlaut? And don't forget that 12" purple vinyl Tour de Fance with the 2 extra milliseconds of Ralf pedalling at the end.... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 08:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Andy Warhol and Kraftwerk Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >I recently was wondering whether Andy Warhol and Kraftwerk ever met? Andy >and Kraftwerk were both into making 'statements' about anything and >everything. I can't say whether or not Warhol and Kraftwerk ever met, but we can speculate that at the very least KW admired Warhol's style and conceptualism. In Bussy's book, he draws parallels between the minimalist ideas of much of Warhol's work and the covers of the first two KW albums. This may just be a coincidence, but either way I think they both were thinking along the same wellenlange. :o) Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Even the greatest stars..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 18 May 96 09:11:29 EDT Subject: Re: M1SY99...? Really-From: Thistlethwaite <100341.2320@CompuServe.COM> Man Machine, Admitedly the M1 is not the most flexible of machines unless you fork out loads for PCM cards, but if it has one incredible patch that fits wickedly in a track why not use it. Electronic music can really suffer from a one synth syndrome and that through using various bits and pieces, better things can be achieved. As you said, creativity counts far more, and after all, they are only tools...a bad craftsman and all that... Later on, Tom ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 18 May 96 17:29 BST-1 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: nuts@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Nuttall) In-Reply-To: <199605181151.GAA01405@cs.uwp.edu> The reason I suggested that you read Popper is not because he makes a case for the sort of systems you deride, but because of his famous 'falsification' theory. Your belief is that as political systems dictate discourse and the sense in which it is recognised and understood, capitalism has brainwashed us all to such an extent that we will not be prepared to discuss the issues you bring up or even recognise them as valid until you present them in a way that we find acceptable. This claim is not falsifiable, or even verifiable. It would be just as plausible (and would better suit the evidence) to claim that the reason that people's reactions to your postings have largely been dictated by your style of writing and the way you present yourself. You consistently refuse to reply to valid points made against your arguments, you mock those who find you arrogant and unpleasant and you continually make grand sweeping statements without justification. Yes, it may well be that our responses have ultimately derived in form from the politico-socio-economic system within which we live: I would probably agree with you on this, as it doesn't seem to me to be as much of a revelation as you believe it to be. Thus I ask you: so what? You must work *within* the system to *destroy* the system, otherwise you simply look like a lunatic. And despite your paranoid ramblings, capitalism permits discourse on its own destruction. Your claim is that people are not listening to you or responding to you because of their capitalist conditioning. If I was to say that this was because of your manner of writing, or because people were generally happy with capitalism, could you *prove* me wrong? Tom ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 17:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: MST3K Really-From: Matthew Bruns Hey, I'd just like to note that there was a brief Kraftwerk reference in the last first-run episode of Mystery Science Theater 3000, Laserblast, which aired today. Nothing terribly special, there was some synth-y music playing and "Kraftwerk" & "Autobahn" were two of many electronic music references used in describing the music... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 22:34:01 -0400 Subject: Emulator Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Ok, this is purely about synths. If anyone can help me: I have an Emulator 1 - the original - and I can't get it to save sounds on the 5 1/4 inch disks. Any tips? Formating? thanks a lot. ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #570 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #571 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Monday, 20 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 571 French edition of Pascal Bussy's book now available RFC822/M400 Mail Network -- Delivery Report RFC822/M400 Mail Network -- Delivery Report RFC822/M400 Mail Network -- Delivery Report RFC822/M400 Mail Network -- Delivery Report RFC822/M400 Mail Network -- Delivery Report RFC822/M400 Mail Network -- Delivery Report Blank messages ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 May 96 07:04:15 EDT Subject: French edition of Pascal Bussy's book now available Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> A French language edition of Pascal Bussy's Kraftwerk biography has now been issued. The book has a new title; KRAFTWERK: Le mystere des HOMMES-MACHINES Publisher: Camion Blank ISBN number: 2-910196-09-7 Price: 125 Francs Obviously, not speaking the language, I cannot comment on the wording. However, it looks to be pretty much a straight translation of the English version. The chapter titles, for example, remain consistent with the English edition. In terms of its design, the book is A5 sized, with a photograph of the bands robots on the front cover. The photographs are spread throughout the book and incorporated into the overall design much more than the English and German editions. Interestingly, a few new photographs have been added, while many of those that were used in both the UK and German editions are absent. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 13:58:58 +0100 Subject: RFC822/M400 Mail Network -- Delivery Report Really-From: helpdesk@mailpac.pt (RFC822/M400 Gateway) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 14:40:00 +0100 Subject: RFC822/M400 Mail Network -- Delivery Report Really-From: helpdesk@mailpac.pt (RFC822/M400 Gateway) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 15:20:02 +0100 Subject: RFC822/M400 Mail Network -- Delivery Report Really-From: helpdesk@mailpac.pt (RFC822/M400 Gateway) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 19:38:05 +0100 Subject: RFC822/M400 Mail Network -- Delivery Report Really-From: helpdesk@mailpac.pt (RFC822/M400 Gateway) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 02:35:14 +0100 Subject: RFC822/M400 Mail Network -- Delivery Report Really-From: helpdesk@mailpac.pt (RFC822/M400 Gateway) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 04:42:18 +0100 Subject: RFC822/M400 Mail Network -- Delivery Report Really-From: helpdesk@mailpac.pt (RFC822/M400 Gateway) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 01:27:36 PST Subject: Blank messages Really-From: chiplamb@juno.com (William C.W. Lamb) Are you all getting these or is there something wrong with my system? Someone obviously has got a loose screw. ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #571 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #572 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 21 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 572 Re: Blank messages Bootlegs Re: Vocoder info. Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: Vocoder info. Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: Vocoder info. Results of the 96 KW Poll!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 20 May 96 06:00:07 EDT Subject: Re: Blank messages Really-From: Mark Stagg <101706.1667@CompuServe.COM> Yeah - I thought it was my system too, but I reckon we're all getting them. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:03:40 -0300 Subject: Bootlegs Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) Dear friends; Anyone knows something about these two boots of the "Mix" tour ? * Tanz Musik * European Tour 1991/92 I'm wanting for a track listing, place of recording and info about sound quality. Thanks a lot, guys!! =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:58:05 +0200 Subject: Re: Vocoder info. Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) Thanks to Paulo for the vocoder info, that I tried to understand in vain. As I understood, there are two input signal for two equalizers: analyser and carrier. so one controls another... If I suppose that my voice is one of these inputs, what is the second signal? What is VCA? I know VCO (voltage controlled oscillator) but not VCA, is it a similar thing?... diagram of what I understood: IN1 >---[spectrum 1]========| v so is it correct? what is IN1 and IN2 and VCA...? Timour - -- _______________________________________________________________________ /\___ Timour JGENTI _______ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE /\ / / timour.jgenti@ifp.fr __ DIMA, groupe Image __________/ / \/_____________________________________________________________________\/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 17:38:32 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: David Davis Tom, I thought what you wrote was well put...I'd even accept your summary of my views, incredibly dangerous though that may be! ( I'd guess you've had more practise at writing essays than me? ) Though I can't say your arguments have persauded me to change my position an inch! Ultimately, I disagree that one must " work from *within* a system to *destroy* it " (although I was not quite so ambitious...I just want to discuss and raise awareness) I'd say that once you've interpollated yourself as a subject, you've had it! [cf. Althusser & the man-on-the-street who turns around when someone calls out "Hey YOU !"] I have no desire to submit to a system where claims must be falsifiable or verifiable Such a notion would seem to me to be irredemaby logocentric The spectre of "truth" is lurking in Popper's arguments There are no 100% natural objective systems to assess truth Truth is *defined* to be true by those with power As is lunacy....that's straight out of Foucault A theory defending capitalism might be expected to originate from a member of a priveleged group in a capitalism state Popper wouldn't happen to be a white male middle class American graduate, would he? I sense a lot of philosophy behind what you've been saying. Note that virtually 100% of great Philosophers coincidentally happened to be priveleged white males too... Ultimately, I guess that, ( unless someone is utterly and totally in the grip of ideology eg an extremely religious person), their views towards the Capitalist state will generally depend on how much they have been oppressed by it. Most comfortably off middle class folks are quite happy in their rat races , thank you very much, and don't really want to think about the wider consequences of their new television Conversely not very many of the 30% of the USA's population who are living below the UN poverty line, all those young black males on crack whose most likely cause of death is murder and most likely address is jail... (do we even have any females on it????) If I don't back up every word I say with footnotes and references it is because I can't ! I'm in a chemistry lab, not a library I do not have a photographic memory And, most importantly of all, I couldn't give a damn about using academia's rules to provide validation for my "seeping statements"! I just type what I think will be most effective at making people think So what if the capitalist state permits discourse on it's destruction... If so, it will always attempt to make it sufficiently marginalised or constrained that the ACTUAL destruction will never occur. Just ask Senator McCarthy! Personally, I think the sad capitalist humans are having their last gasp. The machines are taking over. They have evolved from sticks and flints to space shuttles and supercomputers. Not a day goes by now when humans don't become more marginalised. Earth's ecosystem is becoming so perturbed that a catrophic shift to something radically different is imminent. Machines are a lot tougher than humans when it comes to the environment And the day is fast approaching when they will be able to reproduce for themselves. Check out DEVO (in particular "Mr DNA")! Maybe Kraftwerk could not an album about this! bye David Davis ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 18:16:46 +0200 Subject: Re: Vocoder info. Really-From: Paulo Mouat > Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) > > Thanks to Paulo for the vocoder info, that I tried to understand > in vain. As I understood, there are two input signal for two > equalizers: analyser and carrier. so one controls another... > If I suppose that my voice is one of these inputs, what is the second > signal? > What is VCA? I know VCO (voltage controlled oscillator) but not VCA, > is it a similar thing?... VCA stands for 'voltage controlled amplifier.' One of the inputs is your voice, which by being analysed will shape the spectrum of the other input. This other input receives anything you might be interested in feeding the vocoder, typically an analogue-type wave, preferably with a good harmonic distribution. This other wave will have its characteristics prevail over the resulting timbre, but will be shaped according to the articulations of your voice. The result is that analogue-type wave 'speaking' or 'singing' along what you say to it. Best! - -- __|__ ___\_/___ \\\\\\ ___ Paulo Mouat, \\))))_ |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt ((((<_> |___| \\\\ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 19:36:37 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: David Davis post script It appears I guessed wrong about Popper's social background! Ooops! Also those telephone lines gobbled one of my sentences...I was wondering if those black American males had the oportunity to type on this list.... similarly where were the females? However, my line of reasoning remains: The world view I am expounding can easily be encompassed with that which Tom is telling us about, and vice versa. However one view seems to want to justify injustice in the world. The other seeks to highlight it, in every area into which it pervades (even down to Kraftwerk's studio equipment!) bye DD ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 19:39:56 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Vocoder info. Really-From: David Davis Don't forget that vocoders can do a lot more than cheesy robot voices! ANY signal can be used to timbrally modulate any other signal. So take the number of sounds you could already make, and square it! Have fun.... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:19:24 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Results of the 96 KW Poll!! Really-From: Lars Nellemann OK Boys - here's the result of the 96 KW poll!! Just a few remarks. 1. Entries like Computer Love, Computer Liebe, Computer Love 12", Computer Love (Mix version) are all counted as one. 2. You had all one entry in the categories Best Album, Best Track, Sex, Age and Country - but some people gave listed more possibillities in the Best Band and KW of the 90'ties categories, that's why these add up to more than the number of participants in the poll. 3. Best Album and Best track is compared with two previuos polls - It's not quite fair, because the old polls were done in a different way (Name 3 best KW albums, and 5 Best songs). 4. Please excuse all spelling and grammatical errors, I'm one of the many on this list, that are not born in UK/USA/Canada. 1. Best KW album As one can see Computer world have switched place with Man machine, In my opinion Computer world is more complex, and Man Machine more pop - so maybe the subscribers to this list have gone less "pop" since last poll. The Mix have fallen quite a bit (both Mix 1 and 2!!!), maybe this album is not as durable as other Kraftwerk albums! And before you flood the list with questions - no there is no Mix 2, it's a joke ;-) May 96 Nov 93 Feb 93 Computer World 23 Man Machine 27 Man Machine 14 Man Machine 14 Computer World 21 Computer World 21 Autobahn 6 The Mix 17 Electric cafe 5 TEE 4 Electric Cafe 15 Autobahn 2 Radioactivity 4 Radioactivity 13 Radioaktivity 2 EC 2 TEE 8 Kraftwerk 2 Mix II (?) 1 Autobahn 6 Mix 1 Mix 1 The Model 2 Ralph & Florian 1 Ralph & Florian 2 2. Best track Pretty much the same as last poll - Radioactivity rules. May 96 Nov 93 Feb 93 Radioactivity 6 Radioactivity 29 The Model 25 Tour de france 6 Tour de France 24 Autobahn 18 Autobahn 6 Computer Love 24 The Robots 14 The Model 5 The Model 23 Radioactivity 13 Numbers 4 Autobahn 21 Neon Lights 12 Computer Love 4 The telephone call20 Tour de France 12 TEE 4 Europe Endless 16 Computer World 9 The Robots 3 Pocket calculator 15 Numbers 9 Metropolis 2 The Robots 14 Europe endless 8 Europe Endless 2 Neonlights 12 Pocket calculator 8 Man Machine 2 TEE 10 TEE 8 Computer World 2 Numbers 10 Home computer 7 Home Computer 2 Sex object 9 Musique Non Stop 7 Kometenmelodie 1 Showroom Dummies 9 The telephone call 7 It's more fun.. 1 Man machine 8 Boing Boom Tshack 6 Kristallo 1 Metropolis 6 Home Computer (mix)6 Pockculator 1 Ohm Sweet Ohm 6 Computer Love 3 Antenna 1 Home Computer 5 Kling Klang 3 Neon Lights 1 Music Non-Stop 4 Heimatklange 2 Telephone Call 1 Spacelab 3 Man Machine 2 Music non-stop 1 Technopop 3 Stratovarius 2 3. Best artist apart from Kraftwerk. With New Order, Depeche Mode and Pet Shop Boys at the top three, one could say that many of us likes techno-pop, mainly British. But look at the diversity - I guess that the Kraftwerk list is the only list were people can discuss good music, and still be fans of artist as differnt as : ABBA, JS Bach, Einstuerzende Neubauten, Roy Orbison, Steely dan, and Front Line Assembly. Way to go Kraftwerkians!!! BTW: Why is it that all the Depeche Mode fans are from Sweden? - they must still be popular over there? ;-) New Order 5 Depeche Mode 5 Pet Shop Boys 3 Gary Numan 2 Gentle Giant 2 Yello 2 David Bowie 2 Orbital 2 Jean-Michel Jarre 2 ZZ Top 1 Dave Brubeck 1 The Smiths 1 Art of Noise 1 Vangelis 1 Keith Jarret 1 Rise Robots Rise 1 James Brown 1 The Overlords 1 Klaus Schulze 1 Peter Hammil 1 Joy Division 1 King Crimson 1 Alan Parsons Project 1 Pink Floyd 1 ABBA 1 DAF 1 Cluster 1 Einstuerzende Neubauten 1 Harmonia 1 Clan of Zymox 1 Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds 1 Front Line Assembly 1 Clock DVA 1 Ultravox 1 Bill Nelson 1 Roy Orbison 1 Tangerine Dream 1 Jimi Hendrix 1 Aphex Twins 1 St Etienne 1 EMF 1 Ryuichi Sakamoto 1 Dead Can Dance 1 JS Bach 1 Steely Dan 1 Laibach 1 Brian Eno 1 Front Line Assembly 1 None/? 1 4. Kraftwerk of the 90'ties OK none won this category. That's fair enough - nobody equals Kraftwerk, however Orbital, Autechre, Aphex twins and Orb make pretty complex music - and are in some ways breaking new ground. There are on this list many artists I've never heard of - maybe someone should enlighten the KW list, and write a small review on groups like: Haujob, Download, Atom Heart, Usura, Higher Intelligence Agency, Tokyo ghetto pussy and more - or is just me that are being ignorant? None 12 Orbital 6 Autechre 6 Aphex Twin 5 Orb 5 Electrik Music 3 William Orbit 2 Download 2 LFO 2 Haujob 2 FSOL 2 Front Line Assembly 2 Rise Robots Rise 1 Shamen 1 Jam & Spoon 1 Prodigy 1 Electronic 1 Deep Forest 1 Art of noise 1 Pete Namlook 1 Atom Heart 1 Usura 1 New Order 1 Higher Intelligence Agency 1 Brian Eno 1 Tokyo Ghetto Pusssy 1 X.Mark the Pedwalk 1 Project Pitchfork 1 THD 1 Sepultura 1 Metallica 1 Front 242 1 Solar Quest 1 Prodigy 1 Kevin Lux 1 NIN 1 5. Sex This one we ALL agree on - we're nothing but males on this list. Why is that? - Please if there is any girls on the KW list - let's hear from you, I don't want to think that the Female sex are disgusted of, or disinterested in Kraftwerk. M 56 F 0 6. Age From 15 to 43 - I like that - again a wide diversity on this list. Mean value 26.5 43 1 40 3 38 1 34 2 33 1 32 2 31 4 30 1 29 4 28 3 27 5 26 2 25 3 24 5 23 2 22 4 21 3 20 4 19 2 18 3 15 1 7. Country. 16 different countries - that's great. USA 20 UK 9 (Inclusive Scotland & England) Sweden 6 Germany 5 Canada 3 Brazil 2 Finland 2 France 2 India 1 Netherlands 1 Portugal 1 Australia 1 Austria 1 Greece 1 Denmark 1 Well that's it - I hope you enjoyed it. Lars - -- ******************************************************************** * Lars Nellemann * I'm confused - Like a thirsty * * nelleman@biobase.dk * baby in a topless bar ! * * National Hospital of Denmark * ******************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #572 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #573 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 22 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 573 poll results Re: poll results kraftwerk videos Re: poll results Michael Rother Re: kraftwerk videos women of KW vocoders Re: vocoders Re: Bootlegs (Real?) News Poll ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 21 May 1996 09:02:22 +0000 (GMT) Subject: poll results Really-From: COAF6024@bureau.ucc.ie Judging from the sex category ... kraftwerk seems to be "music for boys" funny that. - -shane j. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:38:24 +0200 Subject: Re: poll results Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) > Judging from the sex category ... kraftwerk seems to be "music for boys" > funny that. Yes, that's I was expecting to see... there are two factors: 1- KW does the serious music which may be qualifyed as "Industrial" or "Technological". And, by definition, girls don't have a great affection to Technology and even fewer number like the art associated to the technology. ( the recent techno-boom isn't an example, KW doesn't make dance the popular mass ) 2- The poll was made by E-Mail, within a mailing list. Many girls use the email as well, but ( because of the reason 1 ) they don't use it for discussions like that, just for some private/work mailing. So it seems to me, there's very low probability to have girls on this list. However it would be fine... Unfortunately I didn't even find girl who likes KW, but I suppose SHE may exist... I'd like to know what kind of girl may like KW... very special kind I think. yeah, funny that... Tim - -- _______________________________________________________________________ /\___ Timour JGENTI _______ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE /\ / / timour.jgenti@ifp.fr __ DIMA, groupe Image __________/ / \/_____________________________________________________________________\/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 20:17:25 +0930 Subject: kraftwerk videos Really-From: ralphg@dove.mtx.net.au (Ralf Grasso) I've ordered 2 krafwerk videos from Dave Rout in Canada about 6 weeks ago and still have not received them here in australia. I've tried to email Dave privately but he has not answered my queries. Just wondering if other people have had problems too. Thanx ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:54:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: poll results Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >So it seems to me, there's very low probability to have girls on this >list. However it would be fine... Unfortunately I didn't even find girl >who likes KW, but I suppose SHE may exist... >I'd like to know what kind of girl may like KW... very special kind >I think. Well, my wife loves Kraftwerk, but then again she's a very special kind of girl. ;o) In fact, she threw on 'The Man-Machine' album before bed the other night. Whenever my kids eventually come along, I have a feeling that they'll be the last of a dying breed to grow up on the music of KW. I suppose that society and the deeply-engrained and stereotypical expectations within it are responsible for the fact that more women would not take an interest in a project like Kraftwerk. Unfortunately, there are only two Kraftwerk songs I can think of that even hint at women, and their titles are "The Model" and "Sex Object". Not exactly motivating for women, ay? :O) Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "She's a model and she's looking good..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:00:50 +0000 Subject: Michael Rother Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" Michael Rother was expected to participate in some kind of performance in Frankfurt this spring/summer. Are any more details known? Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 09:43:30 -0400 Subject: Re: kraftwerk videos Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com i did the same thing about the videos. and i live in michigan ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 09:47:40 -0400 Subject: women of KW Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com I know some girls who like KW. One girl in particular gets shivers down her spine every time she hears the slow attacking chord in "Space Lab" !!!!! That's very special indeed. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 21 May 96 17:48:15 METDST Subject: vocoders Really-From: Ulrik Haugen Hello everybody! could someone send me the last two messages on vocoders that I happend to delete? I don't really understand this about how they work but making synthetic speech sounds pretty cool! Thanks in advance! /Ulrik PS If there's a way I can make the list do this please let me know! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 21 May 96 20:28:49 METDST Subject: Re: vocoders Really-From: Ulrik Haugen Hi all! I've gotten the vocoder letters now, Paul Schilling sent them to me. /Ulrik ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 21 May 96 15:21:39 EDT Subject: Re: Bootlegs Really-From: Mark Stagg <101706.1667@CompuServe.COM> > Anyone knows something about these two boots of the "Mix" tour ? > * Tanz Musik > * European Tour 1991/92 'Tanzmusik' is from the same source as 'N1 To Zurich' - i.e Zurich Volkshaus 26/11/91. It's pretty much identical in terms of quality too, IMHO about 7/10. The only difference is that it omits 'Nummern' (which is only partially present on 'N1' anyway) altogether. Because it's a single CD, it therefore only contains the tracks 'Computer Welt' to 'Trans Europa Express/etc'. The packaging is OKish; the front cover has an awful drawing of a synthesizer with masts and sails - like an old fashioned sailing ship - set against a background of the German flag. Within the insert, however, there are some live photos. STAGGMAN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 21 May 96 22:33:18 -0100 Subject: (Real?) News Really-From: Nexus - -- [ From: Nexus * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Hi all, I'm just off the phone with Pascal Bussy, who dined with Maxime Schmitt sometime last week... Maxime is again in fervent contact with Ralf & Florian, and went on a trip to Dusseldorf recently... There definitely is a NEW album (NOT a Mix 2) on the tracks. The composition proper is finished, the recording too, and the album is in the final mixing stages (though that does not mean anything, remember Electric Cafe, who took nearly one year to mix). However, Elekta US is planning the KW release for the August-September time period... No, I do not know the title. Neither do Schmitt, anyway, because as of now, it doesn't have one. Cross your fingers! :) Nexus ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 20:50:39 -0600 Subject: Poll Really-From: robotkl@earthlink.net (Kevin Lux) Regarding... 4. Kraftwerk of the 90'ties OK none won this category. That's fair enough - nobody equals Kraftwerk, however Orbital, Autechre, Aphex twins and Orb make pretty complex music - and are in some ways breaking new ground. There are on this list many artists I've never heard of - maybe someone should enlighten the KW list, and write a small review on groups like: Haujob, Download, Atom Heart, Usura, Higher Intelligence Agency, Tokyo ghetto pussy and more - or is just me that are being ignorant? None 12 Orbital 6 Autechre 6 Aphex Twin 5 Orb 5 Electrik Music 3 William Orbit 2 Download 2 LFO 2 Haujob 2 FSOL 2 Front Line Assembly 2 Rise Robots Rise 1 Shamen 1 Jam & Spoon 1 Prodigy 1 Electronic 1 Deep Forest 1 Art of noise 1 Pete Namlook 1 Atom Heart 1 Usura 1 New Order 1 Higher Intelligence Agency 1 Brian Eno 1 Tokyo Ghetto Pusssy 1 X.Mark the Pedwalk 1 Project Pitchfork 1 THD 1 Sepultura 1 Metallica 1 Front 242 1 Solar Quest 1 Prodigy 1 Kevin Lux 1 NIN 1 Who is Kevin Lux? try this... http://members.aol.com/KevinL1712/Music/KevinLux2.html Thanks to my fans out there, KL ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #573 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #574 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 23 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 574 Re: Results of the 96 KW Poll!! RE: Results of the 96 KW Poll!! Re: Results of the 96 KW Poll!! women Girls and Kraftwerk Re: women ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:50:25 -0300 Subject: Re: Results of the 96 KW Poll!! Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) >This one we ALL agree on - we're nothing but males on this list. Why is that? >Please if there >is any girls on the KW list - let's hear from you, I don't want to think that >the Female sex are >disgusted of, or disinterested in Kraftwerk. I don't know any woman that likes to *collect* things about music (CDs, pictures, information, etc.). The girls always just wants to listen to the music, they don't thinks about instruments, arrangements or musicians. So, a mailing list can be very boring for they. My wife likes KW, but she can't distinguish Ralf Hutter of Florian Schneider, or a electronic instrument of a "true" instrument. She only likes the music. =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:54:33 -0300 Subject: RE: Results of the 96 KW Poll!! Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) >This one we ALL agree on - we're nothing but males on this list. Why is that? >Please if there >is any girls on the KW list - let's hear from you, I don't want to think that >the Female sex are >disgusted of, or disinterested in Kraftwerk. I don't know any woman that likes to *collect* things about music (CDs, pictures, information, etc.). The girls always just wants to listen to the music, they don't thinks about instruments, arrangements or musicians. So, a mailing list can be very boring for they. My wife likes KW, but she can't distinguish Ralf Hutter of Florian Schneider, or an electronic instrument of a "true" instrument. She only likes the music. =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:13:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Results of the 96 KW Poll!! Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com Hey, it could be worse. My wife considers Jimi Hendrix--who I consider the greatest rock guitarist of all time, maybe the greatest, period-- "boy's noise"! But she does like a lot of Kraftwerk. Especially "Autobahn." I'm sure you guys on the list will find this amusing--we own a fawn Pug dog. So my wife, instead of singing, " Wir (sp?) fahn fahn fahn auf der Autobahn," often goes around the house singing, "we're fawn fawn fawn on the Pug-o-bahn!!!" And now she's got me doing it! Guess you have to be there. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:00:54 -0500 Subject: women Really-From: Jason Musser >"The Model" and "Sex Object". Not exactly motivating for women, ay? Hey, don't forget 'Radioactivity'! "Discovered by Madame Curie..." But really, there aren't that many songs that specifically mention males, either. "Hall of Mirrors" and "the Model" are the only songs that specifically mention the sex of any humans, and they're also the only ones I can think of written in the third person. I don't know if "Sex Object" necessarily counts as a song that mentions women... "Sex Object" and "Computer Love" both conveniently avoid being explicit about genders. - -Jason ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:42:18 -0400 Subject: Girls and Kraftwerk Really-From: Jesse Lex >I'd like to know what kind of girl may like KW... very special kind >I think. Well, if this makes anything easier on you guys, I know plenty of girls that love Autobahn, the song. Until Next Time, Jesse lex@tiac.net ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:36:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: women Really-From: mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu >>"The Model" and "Sex Object". Not exactly motivating for women, ay? >Hey, don't forget 'Radioactivity'! "Discovered by Madame Curie..." At first glance one would think that "Radioactivity" presents women in a positive light since KW are paying homage to a woman who made a monumental breakthrough in scientific discovery. Then again, on the other hand, think about what it is that she discovered. Even Kraftwerk altered their lyrics on the re-mixed "Radioactivity" to read "Stop the radioactivity..." So, even when a woman is actually being credited for something, it is something dangerous and something protested, even by the band themself. :o) In going along with the stereotype that most "computer people" are males, the song "Computer Love" may be interpreted to the point of suggesting that women could be replaced by machines, even where the fields of romance and affection are concerned. Of course, I do not believe that this is what KW are saying in this song. We could interpret anything at all into these songs if we really wanted to badly enough. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "The young woman stepped into the hall of mirrors..." ;o) ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #574 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #575 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Friday, 24 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 575 I SAW MY BABY GETTING SLOPPY (OR STHG) Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: women Re: women Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #574 Re: women ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 23 May 96 14:05:14 EDT Subject: I SAW MY BABY GETTING SLOPPY (OR STHG) Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle Re: 'Girls' and Kraftwerk. We all know there are issues underlying all this, of the proportions of that last mammoth discussion on the indubitable evils of capitalism! There are tons of material written on topics relevant to what we are touching on- there are one or two good books on the role of 'women' as expressed in popular music. I remember reading particularily interesting passages on bands like DEVO and KRAFTWERK which aimed to place their work in the context of that deep down fear of women which is only bound to result from their having been distanced by whatever mysteriousness the myth of beauty has dumped on them (..cough) For fear of nasty innerds-sludge: Devo wore sterilised rubber gloves and goggles! Kraftwerk affected a robotic image! But at least they were all males who didn't have quite so many anti-disgust expectations thrown at them by society- so where does this leave women? Do they really have a wardrobe at home where they store all their unsightly bodily fluids, dandruff, cellulite and excretia? Yuk! They must be REALLY disgusting! Let's just forget about them! I'm sure we'd all, whatever the gender, be able to appreciate anything we liked if we were able to steer our own course through life- but it seems we aren't allowed/ are unable to. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 23 May 96 21:25 BST-1 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: nuts@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Nuttall) In-Reply-To: <199605201639.LAA02703@cs.uwp.edu> Sorry about this; I'd love to continue this fascinating dialogue but I've really got to revise for those evil instruments of capitalist indoctrination: A-levels. Hopefully we can resume later. Just one thing: > Truth is *defined* to be true by those with power How does this apply to a) Logical and b) Scientific truths? (Of course, applying the concept 'truth' to science is riddled with difficulties: no need to go into that). Tom ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 02:13:05 +0100 Subject: Re: women Really-From: lbo >>Hey, don't forget 'Radioactivity'! "Discovered by Madame Curie..." > > At first glance one would think that "Radioactivity" presents women >in a positive light since KW are paying homage to a woman who made a >monumental breakthrough in scientific discovery. Then again, on the other >hand, think about what it is that she discovered. Even Kraftwerk altered >their lyrics on the re-mixed "Radioactivity" to read "Stop the >radioactivity..." So, even when a woman is actually being credited for >something, it is something dangerous and something protested, even by the >band themself. :o) no, I think that everybody know that M.me and Monsieur Curie were *researchers* on radioactivity and its dangeorus effect... they even paid with a lot of illness for their discoveries. I don't want to be sexist, but I see that as far as pure thought is involved, and then no physical appearance, then women would be less interested. In other word, it seem to me that women need to find a specifical feminine aspect on things to stimulate their interest on it. opposingly, I'm not searching for specifical masculine (nor feminine, for that matter) aspects in expressive forms, and to say more, I even think you can't find them. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:19:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: women Really-From: Bedrock Online >opposingly, I'm not searching for specifical masculine (nor feminine, for >that matter) aspects in expressive forms, and to say more, I even think you >can't find them. The examples I gave involving "The Model", "Sex Object", and "Radioactivity" were merely given to suggest one possibility of interpretation which may exist. I personally do not believe that KW were ever intending to make any specific statements about the independent roles of men and women in their music, but rather that they were uniting all humans together in their "volks-music", regardless of gender, and their music served as an expression of how humans interact with the machines they have built and will continue to build. Progress has been a most Kraftwerkian theme indeed, and the idea of a strong relationship between humans and machines perpetuates this notion nicely. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "I program my home computer..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 20:46:00 -0700 Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #574 Really-From: ptgeorge@ix.netcom.com (Perry George) In regards to whether mdme. Currie is being viewed in a positive sense or not...She discovered radioactivity, yes, but did not create it. I doubt KW meant to disparage her. That would be like blaming Dr. (x) for isolating HIV... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 06:07:54 +0100 Subject: Re: women Really-From: lbo At 22:19 23/05/96 -0400, you wrote: >>I even think you >>can't find them. > > > The examples I gave involving "The Model", "Sex Object", and ehm, sorry Scott, but english is not my language... I was not meaning "you Scott", but an impersonal "you", like "I don't think these things could be found"... ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #575 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #576 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Saturday, 25 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 576 Who's Who... Re: Who's Who... Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: women Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Re: Who's Who... kwerk convention? Aktivitaet 4 - '1976 Revisited' Women read Aktivitaet - true! Re: Who's Who... Who's Who... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:14:32 +0200 Subject: Who's Who... Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) Hi friends! The last poll gave me the idea to do some statistics on the people of this list. I've got the members list with the majordomo's "who" command and did percentages on the nationalities. It's based on the mail addresses, so it's quite approximative: Total # of subscibers: 200 ( there's some wrong addresses, so I counted 187 ) World location Number Percentage North America 104 55% Latin America 5 2.5% German Europe 23 12% Latin Europe 12 6% Scandinavia 18 10% England & Eire 20 11% Eastern Europe 2 1% Asia 1 0.5% Australia 2 1% NB: German Europe = germany holland belgium danemark Latin Europe = italia france spain portugal I know the mail address don't always reveal the country, I don't think this statistics shows the interest to KW per country, but more likely the internet distribution per country... more detailed: I made it without any special goal, just interested in KW fans all around the world... Timour - -- _______________________________________________________________________ /\___ Timour JGENTI _______ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE /\ / / timour.jgenti@ifp.fr __ DIMA, groupe Image __________/ / \/_____________________________________________________________________\/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:22:21 +0200 Subject: Re: Who's Who... Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) It seems like I've lost some lines in the last message, all the lines with first char . or - were deleted... i hope / will pass, so more datailed was: / .com 65 / .edu 35 / .uk 19 / .de 9 / .ca 4 / .su 1 / .fr 1 / .be 1 / .nl 7 / .ie 1 / .br 3 / .es 3 / .pt 5 / .dk 6 / .fi 1 / .se 14 / .it 3 / .jp 1 / .au 2 / .net 6 / .pl 1 / .mx 2 / .no 3 / .com & .net are very ambigous... I counted it for North America... Sorry... - -- _______________________________________________________________________ /\___ Timour JGENTI _______ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE /\ / / timour.jgenti@ifp.fr __ DIMA, groupe Image __________/ / \/_____________________________________________________________________\/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 13:02:28 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: David Davis well, Tom, good luck in your A levels, I'm afraid, however, that I will not be able to continue this debate... In 3 weeks my degree course ends, I shall be unemployed, and the state will most certainly no longer be supplying me with free email services! Being an unemployed parasite on the state, I my discourse must of course be stifled, and will be much less valid in 3 weeks time than it is at present. Science is an Ideology!!!!!! Most scientists have not read Althusser and so do not realise this! Althusser defined ideology as the imaginary relations humans construct to describe their "real" surroundings. Paradoxically, he actually seemed to regard science as somehow supremely objective and above ideology!!! In fact, it is perhaps the best example of one which you could think of. Scientific "truths" are constructed to be true within the paradigms of their discipline. They change and mutate constantly through time as these paradigms shift (frequently this happens not gradually, but catastophically, creating large discontinuities of scientific thought) The empirical observations which scientists make, and assign as facts to substantiate their "true" theories, are not so much determined by science itself, but by more general metaphysical ideologies regarding the nature of ourselves and our senses. A classic recent example of what happens in the scientific community when its ideolgies are exposed are challenged, is the case of the late great inderdisciplinarian scholar Immanuel Velikovsky, who caused uprour from the 1950s onwards with his books on catastrophism. Disregarding whether or not his ideas were "true" (ha! ha!) or not, the nature of the reaction of the scientific establishment to them was very revealing (see American Behavioral Scientist, September 1963 , (I think! )) I honestly have never studied logic at all. But these general ideas would certainly claim to encompass it also DD ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:55:45 -0500 Subject: Re: women Really-From: pjschill@students.wisc.edu (Paul Schilling) Gender has *no* (zippo) bearing on someone enjoying groups like Kraftwerk. I can imagine a woman being totally enthralled with Kraftwerk just as well as I can imagine a man liking them. The point is mute. Paul ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:41:47 +0000 Subject: Re: oh you poor son of the digital age... Really-From: "Gustav Holmberg" > > Science is an Ideology!!!!!! > Most scientists have not read Althusser and so do not realise this! [snip] > > Scientific "truths" are constructed to be true within the paradigms of > their discipline. They change and mutate constantly through time as these > paradigms shift (frequently this happens not gradually, but > catastophically, creating large discontinuities of scientific thought) [snip] There are other forums on the net that are open to this kind of discourse (for example the STS-list). This one is about Kraftwerk. Gustav Gustav Holmberg, PhD student, History of Science and Ideas Lund University, Sweden. Gustav.Holmberg@fil.lu.se http://www.df.lth.se/~wilt ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 21:42:47 +0100 Subject: Re: Who's Who... Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI)used the following term, >NB: German Europe = germany holland belgium danemark I found this rather sinister and strange. Why on earth do you consider holland, belgium and danemark to be 'German europe' There have been times when this is true, but it wasn't through choice. As someone who has expressed resentment at the collapse of the communist dictatorship which precided over USSR I question the value you attach to human rights. I find your term of expression to contain sinister and worrying overtones. Perhaps you could clarify your statement? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 21:49:07 +0100 Subject: kwerk convention? Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) I am broadcasting this again to ensure that no one else would be interested. TBH the response hasn't been overwhelming. Currently we'd struggle to get 20 - - 30 people. If the situation remains thus I will not consider taking the idea any further. For those less trusting members please note there would be no exchange of money. You would make your own way here and pay for your own accomodation. I would be able to help you find accomodation but would not be financially involved. Additionally I would be more than happy for a more 'respected' member to take over the organisation of the event. Here is my original statement: 'Is anyone interested in a Kraftwerk convention in London? I would particularly like to know the level of interest amongst those of you in mainland Europe. London would be easy to reach, either via the chunnel or by plane. Those of you in the US would also be welcome, but I realise travelling that distance is more of a problem. London would have the added advantage of being a place many people go to for a holiday. Therefore you could take a holiday and attend a convention.' Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 24 May 96 19:05:29 EDT Subject: Aktivitaet 4 - '1976 Revisited' Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> '1976 Revisited' by Ian Calder Aktivitaet 4 - August 1993 Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Kraftwerk's 1981 world tour and 1991 UK and European tours are well documented in most respects; a myriad of live tapes/LPs/CDs/videos abound from these tours, principally due to the technological revolution which has allowed professional quality tape recorders to fit in the palm of your hand and video cameras reduced to pocket size. The period before 1981 is a little more vague; live tapes are available of some gigs but videos are seemingly non-existent. (No surprise.) The various tours from 1975 seem to be the most obviously represented and well documented. However, the bands live gigs from the latter part of 1976 are less well known but of immense interest due to the material they played and the instrumentation employed... What's so interesting about the gigs from the end of 1976? Well, lets begin with a recap of the bands 1975 outings. For the previous years gigs, the band pretty well stuck to a standard selection of songs, mainly from the 'Autobahn', 'Ralf and Florian' and 'Kraftwerk' LPs, with the occasional little oddity (such as the way in which 'Mitternacht' segues with a very embryonic 'Showroom Dummies' tune and also the music which is introduced as 'Kling Klang' and starts off with the bells and chimes from the studio recording of 'Kling Klang' but is most definitely not that song). The odd thing about this selection of tracks is that none of the songs from 'Radio-Activity' were played; odd, because that was of course the record the band were recordings at the time. By the time of the UK tour in September 1975 a poster plugging the forthcoming LP was on display at the concerts; even stranger then that the band chose not to preview the material live. Now then, judging by the live reviews and such that I have read, the late 1976 concerts were in marked contrast to this. Not only were the songs from the latest LP, such as 'Radio-Activity' and 'Airwaves' aired in their live form but there was also previously unreleased material previewed; namely 'Trans-Europe Express', 'Europe Endless' and 'Showroom Dummies'. Subsequent tours have not included live versions of 'Europe Endless' nor 'Airwaves', so these gigs would appear to be the only time Kraftwerk performed them live. In addition, early versions of 'Trans-Europe Express' and 'Showroom Dummies' would be interesting listening; totally different from the eventual LP versions and who knows what other material from 'Radio- Activity' was aired? As if this were not reason enough for these gigs to be of marked interest, there is another curio. In numerous music paper and radio interviews Ralf Huetter has talked of one of Kraftwerk's more original musical instruments; an electronic percussion device triggered by body movements. These gigs appear to be the only time that these much spoken of instruments have been used in public, as the live reviews certainly make reference to Wolfgang and Karl operating these photo-electric triggered instruments. In the same manner as for the 1975 gigs, slides were displayed on a backdrop throughout the bands performance. Unlike the later tours, these were static slide images, not animated films/videos. Some interesting images appear to have been on display; for 'Europe Endless' a picture of the band themselves (the classic 'round the table' promo pic) was projected; its significance to the song is imponderable! The neon-light name boxes that are a trademark of the classic Huetter/Schneider/Fluer/Bartos era of Kraftwerk were also on display as well as the floor level multicoloured strip light panels which are still part of the Kraftwerk stage set to this day. Kraftwerk appear to have played at three venues in the UK and also on the continent during this period. The three UK gigs were at the following venues; Lanchester Polytechnic, Coventry (Friday 8th October), Sheffield University (Saturday 9th October) and London Roundhouse (Sunday 10th October). I cannot confirm this 100%, but I feel that the 'Radio-Activity' 7" single must have been re-released to coincide with these gigs. On the original promo single that I have for this 7" it gives a release date of 13.2.76. A music paper advert, obviously from much later in the year, announces the dates of the three gigs as well as plugging the 'latest single'; 'Radio-Activity'. So far, live tapes of any of these gigs do not appear to have surfaced to the mainstream. Bearing in mind the unique qualities of these performances, it would be a shame if this remains the case - live versions of early period renditions of 'Radio-Activity' and 'Trans-Europe Express' era material would be quite something to hear these days. Perhaps Kraftwerk themselves have recordings.. It is obvious that they are quite precious of their past output, but perhaps the release of an archive concert would be possible? The musical climate nowadays, with a pronounced retrospective angle, has witnessed a widespread reappraisal of archive recordings. Look at New Order for instance; it's unlikely, bearing in mind their stance, that they would ever release a live LP by themselves. But, due to the BBC 'in concert' series of releases, there has been a live LP issued. I admit, it's unlikely that we shall see such a release (a live LP, in general) from Kraftwerk '70s era concert and at last discard poor quality tapes. Surely it would not blight Kraftwerk's aims too much to put out such an archive release? It is obvious to fans that the band are not too keen on their early records anymore, often dismissing them as from 'another period/time'. Still, there are many who still care for those records and they're not going to go away! This article has been put together mainly from info gained from live reviews in Sounds and NME, from October 1976. Original version of this article by Paul Wilkinson. This version by Ian Calder, July 1993. UPDATE (from Aktivitaet 5 - December 1993) Aktivitaet 4's article on the 1976 tour was a little vague about what tracks the band might have played at those concerts. In addition to the UK gigs in October of that year, it is known that they also performed in France too, in September. From a live review of the concert the songs the band played would appear to have been thus; 'Europe Endless', 'Radio-Activity', 'Airwaves', 'Ohm Sweet Ohm', 'Trans-Europe Express', 'Tongebirge', 'Les Mannequins'. No mention is made of 'Kometenmelodie' in the French review, though in one of the UK reviews it is stated that this is what the show opened with, so it may have been an omission on the reviewers part. Interestingly the French review refers to the song 'Airwaves' as having been played, whereas the UK one claims that it was 'Antenna' - the UK review was pretty duff. Somehow, methinks the UK journalist was none too big a Kraftwerk fan and trivialities like the correct song title may have been lost on him! (NB; I can confirm that it was definitely 'Airwaves and *not* 'Antenna' that was played at the UK show as reviewed. More is now known about this UK gig and an article with more detailed info should appear in issue 8 of Aktivitaet - IAC) - - END -- ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 24 May 96 19:05:11 EDT Subject: Women read Aktivitaet - true! Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> For what it is worth in the continuing debate, those interested may like to know that there is a small, but regular, percentage of womankind who buy Aktivitaet fanzine and seem to find Kraftwerk, and all matters Kraftwerk, equally as interesting as us blokes, like... Ian Calder ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 24 May 1996 23:49:51 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Who's Who... Really-From: COAF6024@bureau.ucc.ie I think timour was referring to the fact that germany holland belgium and denmark use Germanic languages while the Latin europe (surprise surprise) speaks latin based. Nothing sinister about that at all really, is there? - -shane j ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 04:56:35 +0200 Subject: Who's Who... Really-From: Michael Melzer I as an Austrian wonder if Timour counted me as an East European or as an German European. Mag. Michael Melzer Hietzinger Kai 125/11 A-1130 Wien (Vienna), Austria tel. private: +43-1-87 65 637 fax private: +43-1-87 65 637 tel. office : +43-1-50 1 36 86 fax office : +43-1-50 1 36 67 ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #576 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #577 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Sunday, 26 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 577 Re: Who's Who... Re: Who's Who... Aktivitaet 3 - 'Collectors Corner; Showroom Dummies' Re: Who's Who... Who's Who... resubscribe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 10:00:09 +0100 Subject: Re: Who's Who... Really-From: lbo >Latin America 5 2.5% >German Europe 23 12% >Latin Europe 12 6% >NB: German Europe = germany holland belgium danemark > Latin Europe = italia france spain portugal hello all, somebody complained the definition of germay, holland, belgium, danemark, as german europe. I don't think that Timour need to be defended by me, but I don't think this should be related to the situation in the II World war. you see that southern europe and america are also referred as "latin". similar words can bear different significance to different users, expecially for international ones. you should be aware that mailing lists are frequented even by people whose main language is not english and who write late in the night, like me now... be more elastic. also, at last in Italy, the languages of germany, partly switzerland, not french belgium, holland, *england*, danemark etc. are academically referred as "germanic". nobody complain about the definition of latin, but then latins were one of the largest military maintained governement of the world. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 17:37:30 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Re: Who's Who... Really-From: Iggy Drougge On 24 May 1996, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > Really-From: COAF6024@bureau.ucc.ie > I think timour was referring > to the fact that germany holland belgium and denmark use Germanic > languages while the Latin europe (surprise surprise) speaks latin based. > Nothing sinister about that at all really, is there? > > -shane j Well, Denmark is part of Scandinavia, actually, and most of Scandinavia also speaks Germanic languages, yet he didn't include them. Oh well, it's not that much to word about anyway, he might not be a star in gerography, but at least he gave us some interesting information. =-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=->X<-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+- // Mail: optimus@canit.se Y Transformer collector| // \X/ Mail: unniggy@algonet.se | Amiga user | \X/ WWW: http://www.canit.se/~optimus | Sonic Code: Sal+++!^ |SWEDEN RULES!!! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 25 May 96 12:12:22 EDT Subject: Aktivitaet 3 - 'Collectors Corner; Showroom Dummies' Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> Collectors Corner - Showroom Dummies by Ian Calder Aktivitaet 3 - January 1993 (Revised and updated April 1996) Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * If there is one song in particular that deserves to have given Kraftwerk a hit single then this is no doubt the song, being one of their most memorable, due partly to the humorous twist in the lyrics. EMI in Britain have certainly done their utmost to make it a hit, having released it as a single on no less than three separate occasions! It has also appeared on single format in various countries but, surprisingly, not in Germany... BRITAIN Before we get into the nitty-gritty of the British releases, we'll have a quick round up of the various edits that are on the go; the full-length version of the song appears on the first 12" release only. The 7" (which is available as a normal AND promo release, not promo-only as originally written in this article) release from 1977 uses a 2' 43" edit of the song - which was also used on the 12" release from 1978. However, the 1982 7" and 12" releases both feature a slightly remixed edit of the song at 2' 37". This remix features extra electronic percussion, though it must be said that the difference is very subtle. Also, the 1982 version misses out the 'eins, zwei, drie, vier' count-in that all previous versions feature. 7" a: SHOWROOM DUMMIES (Edit) (2.43) b: EUROPE ENDLESS (Edit) (3.37) (record label:) Capitol (catalogue number:) CLX 104 No picture sleeve issued. Promo copies also available. 12" a: SHOWROOM DUMMIES (6.11) b: EUROPE ENDLESS (9.35) Capitol, 12CLX104 No picture sleeve issued. Promo copies also available. Please note that the above cat. no. for the 12" is correct; the original version of this article quoted the 7" one instead. The first release on single format in the UK for 'Showroom Dummies' was in 1977 when it was issued as a limited edition 12", one of the new gimmicks of that era. 7" copies were also issued, though unlike the 12" these did not come with a picture sleeve. The original version of this article stated that the 7" was a promo-only release, but this is not so - it was a commercial release. The picture sleeve for the 12" is light brown coloured with a selection of photo's of the band from the 'Trans-Europe Express' video, in dark brown, on both sides of the sleeve. The labels for both releases are the 'orange' coloured Capitol designs. The 12" contains the long versions of both songs. The promo-only 7" contains edited versions - both tracks edited to just over a third of their original length. The 12" release appears with regularity for sale in the pages of 'Record Collector' and other sources, so you should not have too much bother in finding a copy (and you shouldn't pay over the odds for it either); the 7" is more difficult to trace but is not a mega-rarity. 12" a: SHOWROOM DUMMIES (Edit)(2.43) / SPACELAB (3.36) b: EUROPE ENDLESS (9.35) Capitol, 12 CL16098 The above cat. no. is correct - again, the original article was incomplete. The second release of 'Showroom Dummies' appeared during the 'Man Machine' era, as the picture sleeve displays instantly. This time it was only issued on 12", there is no 7" equivalent and this time round the short edit was used and was accompanied on side one by 'Spacelab', which had earlier appeared on the 'B' side of the 'Robots' 7" single. (It is a different edit of 'Spacelab' that is used on this 12" though; it's actually shorter than the version from the 7" of 'The Robots'). Over on side two, 'Europe Endless' was present once again, the full length 9' 35" version, once more. As mentioned, the picture sleeve draws from the 'Man Machine' LP sleeve, featuring the large picture of the four band members heads, from the inner sleeve of that LP, on the front, with the corresponding picture used on the reverse. The label design is unique, using a red background with silhouettes of the band members, similar to the LP label but different. Along with the earlier 12" these are the rarer issues though they are not too uncommon and regularly appear for sale in the pages of magazines such as 'Record Collector', so you shouldn't be forking out too much money for either of the original 12" singles. 7" a: SHOWROOM DUMMIES (Edit) (2.38) b: NUMBERS (Remix) (2.34) EMI, EMI5272 Mis-pressed copies are also available featuring 'The Model' on side 2. 12" a: SHOWROOM DUMMIES (Edit) (2.38) b: POCKET CALCULATOR (4.55) / NUMBERS (Remix) (2.34) EMI, 12EMI5272 When 'The Model' reached number 1 in the UK charts, back in February 1982, it was obvious that EMI would be keen to keep up the momentum of success for Kraftwerk, so 'Showroom Dummies' was chosen as the follow up. In the event, it did not provide the band with their second number one but it did reach the highest position of the three releases, a respectable number 25 and was in the chart at the same time as 'The Model', a rare sight to see two Kraftwerk singles in the top 40 at the same time! Perhaps it was lucky that it was not so successful as EMI might have tried to do to Kraftwerk what Ariola- Hansa was in the process of doing at that time to the group Japan; re- releasing almost every previous single/potential-single album track that they could get away with. As noted earlier, the 1982 version is slightly remixed - though not by much - there are additional electronic percussion beats here and there. The 'B' side includes a remix of 'Numbers' that speeds the song up a bit and tags on a bit of 'Computer World 2' as well; this remix has only ever been issued on this 7" and 12" - i.e. the UK only. On the 12" version, 'Pocket Calculator' is also added - the 4'55" Long Version / LP version. The picture sleeve for the 1982 version is based on the 'Trans-Europe Express' LP sleeve, using the same basic picture as found on the front of the LP sleeve - though the colours are stronger. The reverse of the sleeve is white with black lettering and has small reproductions of the LP sleeves for both 'Computer World' and 'Trans-Europe Express'. The 12" sleeve has a mistake on the rear - it prints the wrong running order for side two of the single (it states that 'Numbers' is first followed by 'Pocket Calculator' - its the other way round). The labels use the same design as those used for the 'Pocket Calculator' and 'Computer Love'/'The Model' releases from 1981; yellow with black LCD type lettering. Mispressed copies, featuring 'The Model' instead of 'Numbers' on side two of the 7" are very scarce and sought after; of course, they are difficult to find unless you either play the record or look at the matrix number stamped on the vinyl! FRANCE 7" a: LES MANNEQUINS (Edit) (2.40) b: THE HALL OF MIRRORS (Edit) (4.41) Capitol, 2C 006 85211 The French issue of 'Showroom Dummies' is a very nice item as the picture sleeve is superb - definitely one of the best picture covers on the go ... very stylish. It is the French language rendition of the song that is included on the 'A' side, which in addition features a different edit of the song as compared to the UK edits. The 'B' side features 'The Hall of Mirrors' - like the 'A' side, it too is edited for this single. The picture sleeve features the familiar J.Stara portrait of the band, in colour (from the 'Trans-Europe Express' LP sleeve) but ... the picture is 'reversed', so that it is Ralf at the left hand side and Wolfgang now on the right etc. The reverse of the sleeve is also very stylish; black with the same style of lettering/lines as used on the 'Trans-Europe Express' LP sleeve, as well as a picture of the band at Dusseldorf station, from the 'Trans-Europe Express' video. The label uses the standard 'circular' Capitol logo design of the time, though it is red and brown coloured this time. All in all, this is an excellent single release, well worth adding to your collection. SPAIN 7" a: SHOWROOM DUMMIES (Edit) (4.33) b: THE HALL OF MIRRORS (Edit) (3.54) Capitol, 10C 006-085.211 The Spanish issue features edits different to those used elsewhere, though not very skilful ones. The picture sleeve is very different to all others and very confusing as in very large lettering on the front it says 'Especial Discjockey'; but it does not appear to be a promo-only single! The picture on the front is that found on the front of the Spanish 'Trans-Europe Express' LP sleeve (i.e. the one on the back of the UK sleeve) and the title is printed as 'Los Maniquies' and it has a multi-coloured border around it. These unique qualities makes for a very collectable single to add to your collection. The labels are the standard orange coloured design of that period. USA 12" a: SHOWROOM DUMMIES (6.00) b: LES MANNEQUINS (6.02) Capitol, 8502 Like the UK, the 12" format was used for this single, obviously hoping to bolster sales with the latest gimmick. As well as 'Showroom Dummies', the French language rendition, 'Les Mannequins' is also present on this single. This single does not have a picture sleeve - it has a Capitol 'Disco Single' cover instead - but does feature an interesting label design which has pictures from the promo video for 'Showroom Dummies'; side one features the four 'bald' mannequins; side two the same but in silhouette form. You may be wondering why, if the full length versions are included, the tracks appear to be shorter than the UK releases; it is because the US versions are slightly faster; hence the time difference. 12" 'Kraftwerk's Disco Best' E.P. a: THE ROBOTS (6.11) / NEON LIGHTS (9.03) b: TRANS-EUROPE EXPRESS (7.00) / SHOWROOM DUMMIES (6.10) Capitol, SPRO8565/8866 A 12" DJ-only release, nowadays much in demand, despite the cringeworthy title and rather tacky 'disco' sleeve, also used on the earlier 12" release, detailed previously. Don't let the sleeve design give you any strange ideas that the record is pressed in yellow vinyl; it ain't! The LP version of 'Showroom Dummies' is included as an example of Kraftwerk's 'disco best' (ho, ho). The demand for this 12" must be great as prices for this item can be quite excessive, especially for a single that does not feature either an interesting sleeve or label design, or even any otherwise unobtainable mixes of the songs included! The label design is a boring white with black text affair, especially compared to the label of the earlier US 12". CD TRANS-EUROPE EXPRESS (Album Version) (6.40) / TRANS-EUROPE EXPRESS (7" Edit) (3.53) / LES MANNEQUINS (6.00) / SHOWROOM DUMMIES (5.59) Capitol 'Gold Cuts', C2-15620 Released as part of the 'Capitol Gold Cuts' series of re-issues. Quite popular on import for a while, this was the first Kraftwerk CD single to appear, in 1990. Both 'Showroom Dummies' and 'Les Mannequins' are included, as per the original US 12" release. The packaging is very good, featuring a design based on the 'Trans-Europe Express' LP sleeve. CD 'Showroom Dummies' E.P. THE ROBOTS (6.11) / THE ROBOTS (SINGLE VERSION) (3.42) / SHOWROOM DUMMIES (SINGLE VERSION) (6.00) / LES MANNEQUINS (SINGLE VERSION) (6.02) / SPACELAB (5.56) Cleopatra/CEMA Special Markets, CLEO68432/S21-57899 Released at the tail-end of 1992, this CD single (yes, it is a CD single, confirmed by Cleopatra records) features both the full length LP mix and 7" edit of the original 1978 recording of the song. It comes in a standard jewel-case type box (normally used for album-length CD releases in the UK), featuring the still of the 4 bald-headed mannequins, in silhouette, from the 'Showroom Dummies' promo video (also on the West German 'Das Model' single sleeves and UK 'Neon Lights' 12" sleeve), against a printed circuitboard background. The initial release came packaged inside a cardboard long-box, as was then the standard format in America, though don't worry if you don't have this - the box is just plain white, with a cut out hole through which the normal CD case is visible. In the UK, this release tends to be quite expensive, considering that it is only a CD single. Similarly, the Capitol Gold Cuts CD E.P. can also be found at extortionate prices at the likes of HMV; L13.99? I ask you!! JAPAN I don't know quite why, complete stupidity perhaps, but I forgot to include details on any of the Japanese releases in the original article in issue 3! 12" a: SHOWROOM DUMMIES (6.11) b: THE MODEL (3.38) Capitol, PRP-8132 DJ promo-only 12" single An extremely scarce DJ promo-only release, in a unique picture sleeve. Both sides of the picture sleeve feature a grid-like geometrical shape in which there is an image. On the front, the 'Showroom Dummies' side, there is a drawing of a high-heeled female robot, looking rather sad! On the reverse, 'The Model' side, there is a computer circuit board drawing in perspective. There, you'll know what to look out for now - and if you see it going cheap, buy it! It's bl@*%y rare! 7" a: SHOWROOM DUMMIES (6.11) b: THE ROBOTS (6.11) Capitol, ECR20658 Promo copies also available. A popular rarity amongst collectors, this particular Japanese 7" has a really nice picture insert design with an unique pic of the bands mannequins from one of the 1978 launches for the 'Man Machine' LP, stood in front of a 'Man Machine' backdrop in full colour. Japanese releases are particularly sought after items by collectors, due to their curious packaging; the 7" singles come in thin plastic sleeves with thin, insert sheets instead of actual paper/card picture sleeves, while the record itself is housed in a thin paper record company sleeve. For these Kraftwerk releases, the stock copies come with a green Toshiba-EMI company sleeve while the promo copies have a plain white sleeve. The labels on the standard releases are maroon coloured with silver print while the promos are again different, white with black text. As you might imagine, with the demand, the prices for these are expensive! But they are excellent collectors items. Prices tend to start upwards of L9 and can reach the dizzying rip-off heights of L30+ ! - - END - ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 02:18:23 +0100 Subject: Re: Who's Who... Really-From: lbo >I as an Austrian wonder if Timour counted me as an East European or as an >German European. well, I was told from a Czech teacher that they (I mean the nation we usually call eastern, former Cecoslovacchia - can't spell it else than so, sorry... - Hungary, Poland etc.) refer to themselves as Central Europe. anyway you should be a german euro... you speak german, don't you? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 03:43:07 +0200 Subject: Who's Who... Really-From: Michael Melzer > well, I was told from a Czech teacher that they (I mean the nation we > usually call eastern, former Cecoslovacchia - can't spell it else than so, > sorry... - Hungary, Poland etc.) refer to themselves as Central Europe. > anyway you should be a german euro... you speak german, don't you? Yes, we speak german in Austria. but anyway it would be kind of strange to classify Austria as German Europe. Austrians sometimes consider themselves as central European, but rarely as eastern European (to avoid any association with communism). Michael Melzer ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 23:50:35 -0400 Subject: resubscribe Really-From: BEkart6329@aol.com resubscribe ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #577 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #578 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Monday, 27 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 578 Re: kraftwerk videos MSG from Dave Rout regarding KW stuff... Re: kraftwerk videos Tour De France Re: Tour De France ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 02:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: kraftwerk videos Really-From: dougt@netcom.com (Doug Terrebone) > I've ordered 2 krafwerk videos from Dave Rout in Canada about > 6 weeks ago and still have not received them here in australia. > > I've tried to email Dave privately but he has not answered my queries. > > Just wondering if other people have had problems too. > > Thanx Yeah, same here! I sent him a $15 check (which he has cashed) back on 4/4 and have not gotten anything... Dave, are you out there? Doug ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 26 May 96 14:30 EDT Subject: MSG from Dave Rout regarding KW stuff... Really-From: dvrt@passport.ca (Dave Rout) Responding to msg by kraftwerk.cs.uwp.edu () on 27/05/96 02:49:48 I've seen the concerns on the list regarding the KW videos...i'm doing my best to get them all out... i seem to be having trouble getting through to some people regarding the delay...anyone still waiting for a package please email me and i'll do my very best to expedite things along...the following is mail i received regarding the videos...ralph if you're out there please email me as i've been trying to get a hold of you and i can't seem to get a response... >>Forwarding mail by: ralph@dove.mtx.net.au () on Thu, >28 >>Mar >>2:36 AM >> >> >>Dave, >>My name is Ralph Day and my e-mail address is >>ralph@dove.mtx.net.au >>I received your message regarding Ralf Grasso >>(ralph@dove.apana.org.au). >>However, it is not me that initially contacted you >>regardig KW >>stuff for sale. >>I am concerned that someone else has my e-mail address > >>on their >>header. >>Could you please provide me with details of user so >>that I can >>contact my >>service provider to ensure that integrety of e-mail >and >>account >>is OK. >> >>Regards, >> >>Ralph Day sorry again for the delay...i'll promise to get these things out asap... dave " i'm the operator with my pocket calculator " -kw- > > > > > > > > > " i'm the operator with my pocket calculator " -kw- ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 16:39:56 -0400 Subject: Re: kraftwerk videos Really-From: Nthings@aol.com me too!! i sent money and never got one!!! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 17:22:43 -0400 Subject: Tour De France Really-From: MoogBoy@aol.com Does anyone out there have a DAT or CD copy of Tour De France? Please reply to me directly: "Moogboy@aol.com" Thanks!!!! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 03:36:27 +0100 Subject: Re: Tour De France Really-From: lbo >Does anyone out there have a DAT or CD copy of Tour De France? Please well, I think the official cd should be for sale in any suitable record shop... ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #578 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #579 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 28 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 579 Moog Cookbook Re: Tour De France Re: Tour De France Re: Tour De France Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #578 "Techno-Pop" Bootlegs? Orgainisation - "Tone Float" Michael Rother CD's ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 02:51:11 +0000 Subject: Moog Cookbook Really-From: Gregory Norz I haven't seen any posts regarding this new release, so I'll make a mention of it. The CD (and the group also, I believe) is called 'The Moog Cookbook.' It's a great CD put together by two guys, one formerly of Jellyfish, I believe. Basically, the duo recreate some of todays popular rock songs with analog synths. They use mostly Moogs (obviously) and some Oberheim and Sequential Circuits stuff, too. Some of the songs are a bit corny, but the sound they get is great if you like analog. The album claims to be non-MIDI and sites Kraftwerk as one of their 'Moogspirations'. Check out the CD; you may think it be worth the purchase. greg ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 11:19:02 +0000 Subject: Re: Tour De France Really-From: "Gustav Holmberg" > > >Does anyone out there have a DAT or CD copy of Tour De France? Please > > well, I think the official cd should be for sale in any suitable record shop... Oh, is it? :-) > > > Gustav Holmberg, PhD student, History of Science and Ideas Lund University, Sweden. Gustav.Holmberg@fil.lu.se http://www.df.lth.se/~wilt ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 27 May 96 08:13:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Tour De France Really-From: "Bruce M. Lloyd" > >well, I think the official cd should be for sale in any suitable record >shop... When did the CD of Tour de France become available? ____ Bruce M. Lloyd, bml@bgi.on.ca, BGI Systems Integration Power Macintosh 6100/66av, Open Transport 1.1, Claris Emailer 1.0.3 _____ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 11:13:00 -0300 Subject: Re: Tour De France Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) >well, I think the official cd should be for sale in any suitable record >shop... It's a case of disinformation about KW's releases. Please go to the KW Infobahr to more details about this subject... =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 27 May 96 09:40 PDT Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #578 Really-From: M Griffin >Really-From: lbo > >>Does anyone out there have a DAT or CD copy of Tour De France? Please > >well, I think the official cd should be for sale in any suitable record shop... What, is this person kidding? No, there IS NO official cd release of Tour De France. This person is asking for a dub of someone's 12" or bootleg version of the song, because that's the only way it's available. Been reading this list long? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 21:21:39 -0400 Subject: "Techno-Pop" Bootlegs? Really-From: MoogBoy@aol.com Does anyone have a CD or DAT of this unreleased album? Please repond to me directly at "Moogboy@aol.com". Thanks!!! Steve B ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 21:21:43 -0400 Subject: Orgainisation - "Tone Float" Really-From: MoogBoy@aol.com Does anyone know if Organization-"Tone Float" available on CD? If not, does anyone have a DAT or CD bootleg of it? Please repond to me directly at "Moogboy@aol.com". Thanks!!! Steve B ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 00:25:41 -0500 Subject: Michael Rother CD's Really-From: mach25@indy.net (Fred Becker) I just got the Michael Rother Random Records CD reissues. I'm a big fan of his. Since he is a former member of Kraftwerk from way back, I was wondering how many of the list members have his CD's? How many don't? Fred Becker ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #579 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #580 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 29 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 580 Kraftwerk tour '76 Re: Kraftwerk tour '76 Re: Kraftwerk tour '76 NICHOLAS CARLISLE MET THE VOICE OF THE MELLOTRON!!!!!!!!! Re: kwerk convention? NEW LIST INFORMATION FILE -- PLEASE READ Newbie ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 11:07:29 +0100 (BST) Subject: Kraftwerk tour '76 Really-From: David Davis It does seem odd to me that NO-ONE appears to have bootlegs of this! I can perhaps raise hopes slightly by saying that in 1987 (!!) I remember reading a bootlegger's catalogue, and a 1976 Kraftwerk gig WAS most definately listed on it. I have absolutely no more details, and no way of tracing this bootlegger, I lost the address YEARS AGO - but a least one tape definately DID exist, and probably still does... I think it would be interesting to hear if Kraftwerk used a mellotron on stage in 1976... guarenteed to break down on tour, so I wonder if they had the nerve to try and use it live? Mellotron features very heavily on RADIO-AKTIVITAT and T.E.E. - -a lot of the chords & melodies are done using either the sring or choir sounds (and a sort or organ sound on Ohm Sweet Ohm) If they didn't bring a mellotron on tour, all those songs would have sounded very different, I'm sure I imagine that this tour would also be the first time they'd done a lot of signing, since R&F's only previous vocal would have been on Autobahn (and it's decidedly ropey on the Koln Radio Show!) I'd be very surprised if Kraftwerk haven't kept their own live tapes of all their gigs...but I'd say the chances of them releasing an old live album are miniscule! a terrible shame, methinks..... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 11:59:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Kraftwerk tour '76 Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Why wouldn't Kraftwerk bring a mellotron on tour. Yes had two mellotrons that Wakeman used live, so it's not inconceivable..... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 28 May 96 18:23:55 EDT Subject: Re: Kraftwerk tour '76 Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle sadly the wires ate my words regarding mellotrons They are VERY heavy And transporting them plays havoc with the tape mechanism So generally when you get to your gig, if you haven't broken your back and crushed your fingers carrying the bloody thing onto the stage, when you finally switch the damn thing on, it'll probaly just gobble up the tapes instead of scream at you in its unique and throaty way. Also they work on 240 volts a.c Many European countries had different voltages on their national grids to this in 1976 (and still do?) So this stopped it working When Tony Banks of Genesis took his mellotron to New York , he and Peter Gabriel had to kick it and shout at it to make it work, due to the voltage problem, and it was only when Pete put on his Magog helmet and went "Woooooaaaah!" and Phill collins threatened to launch a solo career that it actually decided to work and Mike Rutherford was able to accompany it on bass pedals to the introduction Watcher Of the Skies I think Kraftwerk's minimoags and arp's also had problems with voltages Don't forget that Rick Wakeman drank beer for Britain, that he attended a supplementary course on "mellotron maintenance" at the Royal Academy Of Music, and that Chris Squire had huge big furry boots with 10 inch heels, and also amazing fish-like abilities. Recall further, that Rick Wakeman had his mellotron on ice, and had all those all singing, all skating wives of Henry VIII at his beck and call. Jon Anderson meanwhile, was a dab hand at Total Mass Retain, which came in jolly useful for carrying mellotrons. Orchestral Manoeuvres bravely brought their mellotron on tour with them round Europe in 1982, and Kraftwerk came and saw them at gigs in Bochum and Dusseldorf, and apparently enjoyed themselves thoroughly But whether or not Ralf's volkswagen was big enough to carry a mellotron, I really don't know. Even with Emil Shult to help him lift it, it would've been pretty hard work... maybe a good career move for Kraftwerk would be to attach bicycles to their mellotron, then they could speed up the gap between new albums, by combining Ralf's cycling holidays with a mellotronic Odyssey through the alps. All that pedalling linked to a dynamo would surely generate enough current to power the tapes, and Florian could just use his flute. They could jam whilst they cycled, and probably get a lot of good ideas "out on the road" , instead of being locked in that stuffy old studio all day long. all together now... "AOAOOAOAOAOAOAOAOAOAOAOAOAOAOAOAOAOAOHHHHHH !!!!" (- the voice of the mellotron,1976) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 28 May 96 20:25 BST-1 Subject: Re: kwerk convention? Really-From: nuts@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Nuttall) In-Reply-To: <199605242050.PAA23192@cs.uwp.edu> I'd be likely to attend, as I live in London. Depends on the dates though. How much interest would you like to see to make it a worthwhile enterprise? Tom ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 18:09:51 -0600 (MDT) Subject: NEW LIST INFORMATION FILE -- PLEASE READ Really-From: "Lazlo Nibble" Kraftwerk subscribers -- Since Dave Datta has less and less free time to fiddle around with computer things, he's handed a number of the mailing lists at cs.uwp.edu -- including this one -- over to me. As your new list admin, I've updated the list information file and have included a copy below. The day-to-day operation of the list isn't changing, but I've clarified a number of the list guidelines, so please be sure to read all of this message. Thanks! ::: clip and save ::: ABOUT THIS MESSAGE - ------------------ This is the introductory message for the kraftwerk mailing list. Please read this message carefully before joining and/or posting to the list; it contains information about list etiquette and instructions on using the mailing list software. (If you're new to mailing lists, you may wish to keep a copy of this message around for future reference.) If you ever need to retrieve another copy of this message, email majordomo@cs.uwp.edu with "INFO kraftwerk" in the body of the message. WHAT THIS LIST IS ABOUT - ----------------------- "kraftwerk" is for the discussion of German synthesizer artists Kraftwerk and other directly-related acts (Elektric Music, et al.). Archives for kraftwerk are available via ftp from ftp.uwp.edu (131.210.1.4) in the pub/music/artists/k/kraftwerk directory. An excellent FAQ for the band is available at http://sun1.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk_faq.html. HOW TO SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE - -------------------------------- To join kraftwerk, send email to majordomo@cs.uwp.edu with the command SUBSCRIBE kraftwerk in the body of the message. You will recieve a confirmation message and a copy of this information file. Once you are subscribed, you will recieve each message as it is posted to the list. A digest version of the kraftwerk list is also available. If you subscribe to the digest you will recieve groups of postings in a single email message instead of one at a time. These "digests" are sent out whenever there is a certain amount of text in the queue. To subscribe to the digest, email majordomo@cs.uwp.edu with the command SUBSCRIBE kraftwerk-digest in the body of the message. To leave the list, send email to majordomo@cs.uwp.edu with the command UNSUBSCRIBE kraftwerk or UNSUBSCRIBE kraftwerk-digest (as appropriate) in the body of the message. If you have trouble unsubscribing, send email describing the problem to kraftwerk-owner@cs.uwp.edu. PLEASE DO NOT MAIL "UNSUBSCRIBE" REQUESTS TO THE kraftwerk LIST. To switch from the digest version of the list to the regular version, or vice-versa, you much first unsubscribe from the version you're on and subscribe to the other version as detailed above. Majordomo does not have a command that toggles digest status. USING THE LIST - -------------- All postings to the list should go to kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu, whether you're on the regular or digest version of the list. Message sent to this address will immediately be forwarded to all members of the list, and will be queued for the next digest. New members are encouraged to introduce themselves. When you join, please send a message to the list describing (in brief) who you are and your interest in the list's topic. Here are some guidelines to remember when using the list: * Majordomo will check to make sure that you are a list subscriber before sending your message to all the members of the list. You should send messages from the account you used to subscribe to the list, otherwise your mail will be delayed. * The usual rules of list courtesy apply: avoid long signatures (four lines is a good size), trim down quotations from previous postings, and try to keep messages relevant to the list's topic (no general advertisements, "warnings" about viruses, chain letters, and so forth). The list manager has final say on whether a topic is welcome on the list; please do your best to follow his guidance. * The messages you send are going out to hundreds of other people. Please think twice before posting flames or extremely large messages to the list. You should *never* send graphics or audio files to the list -- doing so may result in your subscription being canceled. * The list is not meant to be used as an advertising forum, though short notices of the form "I have for sale; please email me for a full list" are acceptable as long as the items for sale are directly relevant to the topic of the mailing list. * Please remember that ALL requests to join or leave the list should be mailed to majordomo@cs.uwp.edu, not the list itself. * Do not repost messages from this list to other forums without first getting permission from the person who wrote that message. * This list may have an associated FTP and/or WWW archive. Further information may be found at http://www.swcp.com/lazlo/Lists. Please become familiar with any online resources that support the list; you may be able to find the answers to some kinds of questions without having to send those questions to hundreds of people. This list is managed by Lazlo Nibble (lazlo@swcp.com, a.k.a. Ernie Longmire) and is operated from cs.uwp.edu thanks to the generous assistance of Dave Datta. Thanks for reading this far. I hope you enjoy the list! - -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 20:18:19 -0600 Subject: Newbie Really-From: Bob Potter Hello,=20 My name is Bob. I'm from the US and going to college right now in = Colorado. I enjoy various musical styles, techo, ambient, some trip-hop = and a variety of other things (from classical to rap to country). = Specifics? Aphex Twin, Portishead, Every so often Nitzer Ebb and a = little Einsturzende Neubauten doesn't hurt. There are others whom I = can't think of off the top of my head. I think that I would enjoy making = music though I'm not very talented that way, shrug, I might just try = anyhow.=20 If anything I'll probably just add comments rather then fact as I am = probably below the common knowledge level of the list (but this is how = we learn right?) I am very interested in facts about the group. I only = have a couple of albums though I get the urge to purchase more every = time I here those guys... Looking forward to future mailings. ~Bob ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #580 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #581 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 30 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 581 Kraftwerk LIVE ON STAGE 76 Moog Cookbook Ryuichi Sakamoto Re: Moog Cookbook Re: NICHOLAS CARLISLE MET THE VOICE OF THE MELLOTRON!!!!!!!!! Re: Moog Cookbook Re: Moog Cookbook "DJ's Best" a myth? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 12:57:18 +0100 (BST) Subject: Kraftwerk LIVE ON STAGE 76 Really-From: David Davis MORE THOUGHTS ABOUT WHAT THIS TOUR MAY HAVE SOUNDED LIKE.... A view expressed in Pascal Bussy's book, and which I would tend to agree , is that Krafterk Live in 75 (cf Live in Koln Radio Show) sounded rather weak in comparison to the LP versions.... On the Radio Show, RUCKZUCK sounds GREAT (the interlocking rhythms are amazing...the flute riff, wolfgang's knitting needles, Karl on glockenspiel, and Ralf's left and right piano hands..... echos (like at the very start) in TRIPLETS over the rest of the rhythms!!Fantastic) But Kometenmelodies, and Autobahn are a bit disappointing On Kometenmelodie 2, the bass line is an octave too high, and the melody and octave too low!, the tempo is too slow, and the little cheesy chords are missing On Autobahn also, the wonderful F/ Bflat/ C / F chords from the verses are a bit lacklustre compared to the multilayered sizzle from the album version...They're just done on the ARP Odyssey, with the oscillators set major 3rds apart, with a bit of phase The final section of the song is missing altogether (although it's replacement IS brilliant, tons of echo and filter swoops and strange drunken harmonies...ends up reminding me of the Who's "won't get fooled again" !?!?) Anyway, getting back on track... Bussy hints that the 76 tour was much more solidly played. A corroboration of this could be that tantalizing footage the BBC sometimes shows on "sounds of the 70s " type programmes, which seems to come from science programme "tomorrow's world"? Here were see a still very raw version of Autobahn, but sounding MUCH MUCH better...because R&F are now playing TWO keyboards each (although out of time at one point!!!) Ralf is doing a fat squelchy bass line in his minimougue AND playing the F/Bflat/C/F chords on a little organ(?), whilst florian has a clunkier ARP bass line, and the dual-osc-3rds for the chords too Maybe on the 76 tour they kept this up, and used both their hands more, giving a fuller sound? But then there's always those backing tapes.... Will we EVER actually get to hear all this , though!?!? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 08:20:39 -0400 Subject: Moog Cookbook Really-From: NDKent@aol.com I've heard the duo play numbers from the album on MTV, so at least I'm not speaking without listening to the material, and I'll grant them the irony of taking popular recent alternative rock songs and playing them on vintage gear. While I get a chuckle out of the cheesyness of it, it takes a FAD (analog gear played in a tacky manner) to it's natural conclusion, attempting to duplicate the bad Moog albums of circa 1970. I don't doubt it isn't a good for a smile, but it doesn't exactly help the "cause" of quality synthetic music like Kraftwerk strive for. P.S. the Rentals also do an act in the same field. (Album: Return of the Rentals) The "woo-woo" sounds of abused portamento and cheap sounding Moog Source filters annoyed me IMHO. Finally Perrey and Kingsley's late 60s albums "The In Sound from Way Out" and "Kaleidescopic Variations" (sometimes available on CD separately or coupled from Vanguard) are generally aknowledged as the best examples of now cheesy sounding electronic pop arrangements. Not to knock "The Moog Cookbook" or Gregory, but those albums are a superb example of analog synth and pre-synth work. Nicholas Kent http://idfx.com/artskool/jem/jem.html (Japanese Electronic Music Site) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 09:24:11 -0400 Subject: Ryuichi Sakamoto Really-From: JAMESDADA@aol.com Please pardon the non K-Werk Kontent. I will be interviewing Ryuichi Sakamoto for a music mag. this Thursday. Although I've been a fan of his for years (although his output has been quite spotty at times), I'd love to ask all of you on the digest for your input. The piece is for a "godfathers of techno" issue of an alternative rock mag. "SECONDS". If you have any questions or insights about the man....please e-mail me directly as to not clog up our wunderful und exclusif klub. Points to those who can give me good K-werk influence questions. best, jd ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 09:26:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Moog Cookbook Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com I saw the duo on MTV also. It was disheartening because they took good ideas and great synthesizers and made a mockery of sorts out of the "cheesyness" of old technology for the "new alternative" kids to get a nice laugh at. Cheesy is never a word I use with synthesizers. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 29 May 96 15:12:41 EDT Subject: Re: NICHOLAS CARLISLE MET THE VOICE OF THE MELLOTRON!!!!!!!!! Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle Can anyone tell me if there are still plans to relaunch the mellotron? I remember reading a couple of years ago in a synthy magazine that there were plans to do just this. A much lighter mellotron would be just the ticket! I guess that with the (crappy) Vintage Keys module the company mightn't see such a "gap in the market" (harumph)... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 29 May 96 15:20:11 EDT Subject: Re: Moog Cookbook Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle It's Gary Numan I feel sorry for- I'm afraid he is incapable of seeing that the renewed interest in his music is entirely born of the stunted 'irony or nothing- it saves admitting I don't know what I really like' attitude of people these days. Poor Gazza it seems STILL doesn't have any real friends... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 15:33:56 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Moog Cookbook Really-From: David Davis Yes! It is indeed a disgrace that analogue is being demeaned by all this kitch garbage Analogue is dangerous Capitalism wants it stopped And what better way to do it than to attempt to saturate it with connotations of crappy cheesy trippy space-bubbles nylon nonsense? If it can be successfully culturally marginalised as retro nostagic candyfloss, then any new musuicians obviously find it harder to overturn the current capitalist conformity using analogue sonic attack. And have you heard what Spielberg did to the Dr Who theme music???? The BBC Radiophonic Workshop must be turning in its grave!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGH!! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 15:53:03 -0400 Subject: "DJ's Best" a myth? Really-From: MoogBoy@aol.com After contacting many record stores in Germany and getting no response from BMG... I am beginning to conclude that the infamous BMG german compilation "DJ's best" CD with Tour De France is a myth. What do you think? Steve ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #581 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #582 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Friday, 31 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 582 Re: "DJ's Best" a myth? Japanese Technopop Re: Moog Cookbook Re: Moog Cookbook "Official German-Future Goy"? Re: Moog Cookbook Re: Moog Cookbook DISCOGRAPHY URL CHANGE - PLEASE READ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 10:17:26 MESZ Subject: Re: "DJ's Best" a myth? Really-From: Thomas Alby content-type:text/plain;charset=us-ascii mime-version:1.0 > Really-From: MoogBoy@aol.com > > > After contacting many record stores in Germany and getting no response from > BMG... I am beginning to conclude that the infamous BMG german compilation > "DJ's best" CD with Tour De France is a myth. What do you think? > > Steve > > It is not, I have the LP. However, I bought it sveral years ago and it might not be available anymore. I also saw it as a CD a few months ago in a second-hand store but looking for it a second time it wasn't there anymore... Thomas talby@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 06:19:59 -0400 Subject: Japanese Technopop Really-From: NDKent@aol.com I thought I'd tip KW readers off to one today's rare bands that plays actual Technopop (in contrast to ambient or techno). They are a Japanese band named P-Model. Sadly, while orderable, their stuff is pretty much non existant outside of Japan. They have a neat official web page and soundbytes at http://www.c2i.co.jp/col.me/P-model/ be warned, it is only partly in English, and the web, even within Japan appears to be extremely slow. nicholas d. kent http://idfx.com/artskool/jem/jem.html ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 30 May 96 12:57:12 EDT Subject: Re: Moog Cookbook Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle When people ONLY have eyes for Kitsch/Irony (when Kitsch/Irony is the flavour of the decade), they are making a lazy choice; it's easier to make a statement about yourself by what music you listen to or what TV you watch etc., when, if you are confronted by some sort of criticism re your 'taste', you can just say "well I only like it because it is so crap". For people who don't take the time to find out what they are really moved by, what really connects with them, buying all the right kitsch easy listening records with wacky moogs, and wearing all the right 70's floral blousons, is an easy way to appear culturally aware. A similar type of pretensious lazy person is he who judges goods on the price alone- "if I have to spend more on this designer shirt, it must be more tasteful- damned if I know". Victim of capitalism- just ask david.davis. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 09:50:50 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: Moog Cookbook Really-From: "Lazlo Nibble" > When people ONLY have eyes for Kitsch/Irony (when Kitsch/Irony is > the flavour of the decade), they are making a lazy choice... It's also a lazy choice to assume that everyone who likes goofy moog covers, lounge music, etc. likes it because it's "kitschy". I run the exotica mailing list and I assure you that pretty much everyone on that list genuinely enjoys the music. - -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:50:11 +0000 Subject: "Official German-Future Goy"? Really-From: fh5y013@public.uni-hamburg.de I've seen a Kraftwerk CD bootleg advertised: "Official German-Future Goy" (sic!), Germany 1996. Are any more details known? Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:05:55 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Moog Cookbook Really-From: David Davis Lazlo: If you had bothered to actually READ the exerpt which you quoted from Nicholas "mermaid" Carlisle's posting, you would have seen that he did NOT "lazily" assert that people ONLY like this Moog music for kitsch reasons In fact, he perceptively identified that, sadly, a LARGE PROPORTION of people "appreciate" it for kitsch, and explained why this was a rather lazy and spineless aesthetic to make use of. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 30 May 96 18:18:13 EDT Subject: Re: Moog Cookbook Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle >It's also a lazy choice to assume that everyone who likes goofy >moog covers, lounge music, etc. likes it because it's "kitschy"... I'm not assuming this- my opinion is only directed at those who do like kitsch, who rely on irony for *dubious* reasons. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 23:22:15 -0600 (MDT) Subject: DISCOGRAPHY URL CHANGE - PLEASE READ! Really-From: "Lazlo Nibble" (I'm sending copies of this to each mailing list for whose artist I maintain a discography. Sorry if anyone gets multiple copies of this message!) I've written and installed a new package called Lazlo's Discography Machine, which anyone interested in accessing the discography should use from now on. The main entry point is at: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discog.pl and to get to the Kraftwerk discography directly, you can use http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discog.pl?discog=kraftwerk Please update any bookmarks and/or links you may have on your pages -- the old link to http://www.swcp.com/lazlo/Discographies.html is now just a forwarding page and I plan to disable the ftp:// URL soon (swcp.com is busy enough that you can't always get through anyway). - -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #582 *******************************