From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #583 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Saturday, 1 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 583 DJ's best KW/WWW Re: DJ's best Re: Newbie KRAFTWERK CONVENTION Re: NEW LIST INFORMATION FILE -- PLEASE READ Nicholas Kent Re: kraftwerk videos MSG from Dave Rout re: KW videos (once again...) New album / UK General Election Re: Ryuichi Sakamoto Re: NEW LIST INFORMATION FILE -- PLEASE READ Re: Newbie electronic playground of sound 'Trans-Europa Express' video on VH-1 in UK Aktivitaet 'Collectors Corner - Showroom Dummies' - repair kit! Tone Float Re: Newbie Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #579 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 10:05:50 Subject: DJ's best Really-From: "GUNTHER PoeCKER STUDENT" The Cd of 'DJ's best- 12 german dancefloor classics' has been deleted at least two years ago. Catalogue number was Ariola 261 281, the Kraftwerk track was TDf 3:42 Remix single Edit. (And it was a midprice CD...) And, sorry, I do not know of any copies on sale in local shops... if I see any, I'll send a mail to the list. But: anybody interested in a good illegal CD copy should try the "Werke - Westwood one Rarities on CD" bootleg. Though the CD's quality is not consistently good, the TDF mixes are very good quality. This CD should be available from most german mailorders dealers and probably US/Uk ones, too. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 10:17:53 +0200 Subject: KW/WWW Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) Hello friends, I know, there are very good WWW sites on KW, however I made my very little contribution to Kraftwerk on the web. So now you can find 6 of my KW mod files on this page: http://www.utbm.fr/les.personnes/lu.chen/timourpages/kw.html if someone is interested... ( all are 4voice, supported by any player ) TiM - -- __________________________________________________________________ /\___ Timour JGENTI _______ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE /\ / / timour.jgenti@ifp.fr __ DIMA, groupe Image __________/ / \/________________________________________________________________\/ http://www.utbm.fr/les.personnes/lu.chen/timourpages/tim.html ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 08:49:08 -0300 Subject: Re: DJ's best Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) >But: anybody interested in a good illegal CD copy should try the >"Werke - Westwood one Rarities on CD" bootleg. Though the CD's >quality is not consistently good, the TDF mixes are very good >quality. This CD should be available from most german mailorders >dealers and probably US/Uk ones, too. It's a very interesting bootleg; contains 13 tracks, including 2 versions of TDF, 2 versions of "Pocket Calculator" in French and Japanese ("Mini Calculater" and "Dentaku", the original release of '81, not the "Mix" version), and the early version of "Kommetenmelodie", "Kohoutek". All the records are taken direct from the vynil, so the quality is irregular (the worst is just "Kohoutek", with some ticks and flops...) =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:10:57 +0100 Subject: Re: Newbie Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) > If anything I'll probably just add comments rather then fact as I am probably >below the common knowledge level of the list (but this is how we learn right?) I am >very interested in facts about the group. I only have a couple of albums though I get >the urge to purchase more every time I here those guys... Looking forward to future >mailings. >~Bob > Buy: Autobahn, Trans Europe Express, Man Machine, Computer World Avoid: Electric Cafe Consider: The Mix, Radioactivity and early kwerk albums. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:16:26 +0100 Subject: KRAFTWERK CONVENTION Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >In-Reply-To: <199605242050.PAA23192@cs.uwp.edu> >I'd be likely to attend, as I live in London. Depends on the dates though. >How much interest would you like to see to make it a worthwhile enterprise? > >Tom > This time several more people have expressed an interest privately. I think any less than 50 people would rule it out. Additionally I don't want to be in a situation where people express an interest but then don't turn up. I would appreciate any suggestions for the format this event should take. Since you live in London suggestions from you would be particularly appreciated. I think we should remmeber that some people may travel a long way. It is therefore ESSENTIAL that every effort is made to make the event worthwhile. I would be more than happy for other people to take over the organisation of this event. I am trying to act as a catalyst to make it happen. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:21:26 +0100 Subject: Re: NEW LIST INFORMATION FILE -- PLEASE READ Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Since Dave Datta has less and less free time to fiddle around with computer >things, he's handed a number of the mailing lists at cs.uwp.edu -- including >this one -- over to me. As your new list admin, I've updated the list >information file and have included a copy below. The day-to-day operation >of the list isn't changing, but I've clarified a number of the list >guidelines, so please be sure to read all of this message. I would like to offer my congratulations to Lazlo for agreeing to administer this list, also to Dave Datta for being so even handed during turbulent times. Hopefully Lazlo, you will continue to operate in this tradition and do a splendid job yourself. I do hope that you resist the temptation to ban anyone who disagrees with your point of view. A healthy list is one where all opinions can be freely expressed without the fear of expulsion. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:26:23 +0100 Subject: Nicholas Kent Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >nicholas d. kent >http://idfx.com/artskool/jem/jem.html For those of you who don't know Nicholas Kent was in the original line up of the Sex Pistols. After playing a few gigs he left. Kent went on to become a music journalist. Is this the Nicholas Kent on the list? Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:33:34 +0100 Subject: Re: kraftwerk videos Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >> I've ordered 2 krafwerk videos from Dave Rout in Canada about >> 6 weeks ago and still have not received them here in australia. >> I've tried to email Dave privately but he has not answered my queries. >Yeah, same here! I sent him a $15 check (which he has cashed) back on >4/4 and have not gotten anything... Dave, are you out there? This illustrates why I would prefer to avoid mailing videos to people. I would suggest there need to be some guarantees involved. If people don't have the time or resources to buy and mail videos they should not offer to do so. It's easy for me to pick up virtually every kwerk video and bootleg album ever made from Portobello Rd and Camden Town markets in London. The fact is that a reliable method of payment and delivery is required. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 31 May 96 16:54 EDT Subject: MSG from Dave Rout re: KW videos (once again...) Really-From: dvrt@passport.ca (Dave Rout) hello all: as i posted last week , i'm doing my best to get the videos out...i'm trying to get ahold of everyone so i can get them out a.s.a.p to everyone who has emailed me as i asked , thanks for your patience... dave ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:55:38 +0100 Subject: New album / UK General Election Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) I've just made an amazing connection... The last 3 albums (Computer World 81, Electric Cafe 86, The Mix 90/91) have preceeded the last 3 UK General Elections (83,87,92) by a year or 2. The next UK election is a maximum of a year away, therefore...... The press seem to be writing off kwerk in the same way they once wrote off the UK economy. They were disastorously wrong with that prediction and may well be again with regard to kraftwerk. The UK economy bounced back and is now shaking the world to its foundations. Perhaps the next Kraftwerk album will do the same to the music world. Brian PS: Perhaps there's also a correlation to elections in Germany or France. If this holds true the next album is likely to have the dynacism and impact of a lethargic snail. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 22:55:42 +0100 Subject: Re: Ryuichi Sakamoto Really-From: lbo At 09:24 29/05/96 -0400, you wrote: >Please pardon the non K-Werk Kontent. and mine, too... (late on the tour the france cd... maybe I was wrong... :-) ) >I will be interviewing Ryuichi Sakamoto for a music mag. this Thursday. >at times), I'd love to ask all of you on the digest for your input. The piece I must say I really appreciate this. I am putting together a(nother) netzine, and this would be one of my guidelines: to activate the audience. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 16:33:25 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: NEW LIST INFORMATION FILE -- PLEASE READ Really-From: "Lazlo Nibble" > I do hope that you resist the temptation to ban anyone who disagrees with > your point of view. If you resist the temptation to post further hoaxes to the list, Brian, you won't have to worry about being removed from it. - -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 18:54:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Newbie Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Hey Brian: A fan should check it all out and decide for himself. I find it hilarious that you don't understand Electric Cafe yet. Don't you get it? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 31 May 1996 22:05:53 +0000 (GMT) Subject: electronic playground of sound Really-From: COAF6024@bureau.ucc.ie Hi, I'm just listening to Electric Cafe (i love it!). It's like a playground of sound, speaking of which, i just heard Ruckzuck for the first time. Is this track typical of the other tracks on KW1, KW2 & R&F? I've heard tonefloat and to be honest, don't think much of it (sorry, organisation fans!) cheers shane j. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 31 May 96 19:48:03 EDT Subject: 'Trans-Europa Express' video on VH-1 in UK Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> This is mainly of benefit for members of the list in the UK with access to the VH-1 music channel; the promo video for 'Trans- Europa Express' has now been aired on a couple of VH-1 programmes in recent weeks, which is an encouraging find from their archives (will there be any more - the 1978 'The Robots' maybe? - yum!). It first popped up on '10 Of The Best' and now, tonight, it has appeared on 'The Vinyl Years'. The odd but is that is is the German language version that is used. Now, if I could just make sure I was video-taping at the time it was on ... Anyway, you may wish to keep an eye on future editions of 'The Vinyl Years', since it seems the most likely contender for a repeat showing at some point. Ian Calder * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Meet Iggy Pop ... and David Bowie" * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 31 May 96 19:48:18 EDT Subject: Aktivitaet 'Collectors Corner - Showroom Dummies' - repair kit! Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> A few inaccuracies slipped into the recent 'Collectors Corner - Showroom Dummies' article in digest 2.577; i) re; the US 1992 'Showroom Dummies' CD single; The picture is indeed from the video for the song. However, the description also stated that the picture is also used on both the West German 'Das Model' and UK 'Neon Lights' singles sleeves; this is not so, both of these other releases have a *similar* picture, but different to the 'Showroom Dummies' one. ii) re; the 'Disco Best' promo 12" - I stated that the record did not contain any 'otherwise unobtainable mixes of the songs'. In fact, the edit of 'TEE' is, at 7.00 minutes, slightly longer than most other releases and *does* appear to be unique to this 12". Ian Calder * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "We are being watched ... and we feel our pulse" * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 01:09:32 +0100 (BST) Subject: Tone Float Really-From: David Davis Hey! Listen to the gloriously funky MILK ROCK on Tone Float And remember, that is a FLUTE you're hearing ! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:12:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Newbie Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" >>Buy: >>Autobahn, Trans Europe Express, Man Machine, Computer World >> >>Avoid: >>Electric Cafe >> >>Consider: >>The Mix, Radioactivity and early kwerk albums. This post was followed up by a post which read: >I'm just listening to Electric Cafe (i love it!). Just goes to show that there's something for everyone out there, and true music appreciation rests in the ears of each individual listener. Personally, I also love 'Electric Cafe', as well as 'Radio-Activity' and 'The Mix'. In terms of my own listening priorities, I put all of the aforementioned albums ahead of 'Autobahn', which is still by all means a superb recording in and of itself. In my own mind I have yet to hear a KW recording that was not worth purchasing. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Turn the dials with your hand..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 02:17:30 -0400 Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #579 Really-From: Jesse Lex >I haven't seen any posts regarding this new release, so I'll >make a mention of it. The CD (and the group also, I believe) >is called 'The Moog Cookbook.' It's a great CD put together by >two guys, one formerly of Jellyfish, I believe. Basically, the >duo recreate some of todays popular rock songs with analog >synths. They use mostly Moogs (obviously) and some Oberheim >and Sequential Circuits stuff, too. Some of the songs are a >bit corny, but the sound they get is great if you like analog. >The album claims to be non-MIDI and sites Kraftwerk as one of >their 'Moogspirations'. Check out the CD; you may think it be >worth the purchase. Are we talking about the duo called Bionaut? I saw these two guys playing at a rave playing analog synths. I bought a CD of theirs for about $10. They use other people's styles like Moby's, The Orbs, and such. They sound very much like Tangerine Dream, Kraftwerk, and the rest of the old skool electronic sounds. When I talked to one of the guys, he said something about making a song parodying but more like an ode of Kraftwerk. He was very impressed that I was on a Kraftwerk mailing list as was his fellow. Until Next Time, Jesse lex@tiac.net ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #583 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #584 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Sunday, 2 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 584 Kling-Klang Re: New album / UK General Election Re: Moog Cookbook ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 20:00:40 MET Subject: Kling-Klang Really-From: "CHIRIATTI CLAUDIO" Hello to everybody on the Kraftwerk-list. I'm a new subscriber of this list and my name is Claudio Giovanni Chiriatti. Well, I do send this mail because I want to know something about the mysterious Kling-Klang studio. Who of the subscribers can give me informations about this subject ? With best regards Claudio (member of 2nd Apology) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 17 Aug 93 00:54:40 +0000 Subject: Re: New album / UK General Election Really-From: Brendan Heading >I've just made an amazing connection... >The last 3 albums (Computer World 81, Electric Cafe 86, The Mix 90/91) have >preceeded the last 3 UK General Elections (83,87,92) by a year or 2. The >next UK election is a maximum of a year away, therefore...... Och, trust you to come up with that one Brian! hey - maybe I should go and assasinate a few Ulster Unionists and cause a snap election, and.... a new Kwerk album! >The press seem to be writing off kwerk in the same way they once wrote off >the UK economy. They were disastorously wrong with that prediction and may >well be again with regard to kraftwerk. The UK economy bounced back and is >now shaking the world to its foundations. Perhaps the next Kraftwerk album >will do the same to the music world. Although me and Brian live in the UK, you certainly wouldn't think it :) Most people believe that the Economy is certainly not bouncing back, we've had totally shite investment and money cirulation for years, and the economy reacts lethargically to measures designed to fix it :) >PS: Perhaps there's also a correlation to elections in Germany or France. If >this holds true the next album is likely to have the dynacism and impact of >a lethargic snail. Rather like the Conservative party. People all think if we give them another chance they WILL do a good job, and it turns out that they don't. But you'll always get the little guy at the back who goes "This new KW album is great" even though it may not be.... |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Recursion : see Recursion" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 01 Jun 96 15:27:45 EDT Subject: Re: Moog Cookbook Really-From: Thistlethwaite <100341.2320@CompuServe.COM> For anyone interested, people have being doing this sort of thing for years. A friend has the Star Wars music recreated on a 'Moog Orchestra' dating back to 1977 or 1978. Its a french release and is pretty dire. No power in the Moog sounds whatsoever. I wonder how many Moogs were in the 'Orchestra' though. Later on, Tom ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #584 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #585 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Monday, 3 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 585 Re: Kling-Klang Re: Moog Cookbook Hello everybody ! Re: Kling-Klang trancewerk Re: Kling-Klang ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 Aug 93 23:28:39 +0000 Subject: Re: Kling-Klang Really-From: Brendan Heading >Hello to everybody on the Kraftwerk-list. I'm a new subscriber of >this list and my name is Claudio Giovanni Chiriatti. >Well, I do send this mail because I want to know >something about the mysterious Kling-Klang studio. >Who of the subscribers can give me informations about this subject ? Greetings, Claudio. Um, the question you ask is very hard to answer, Kraftwerk's current members do not like to disclose the location or the nature of their studio, they believe that it is important to the secrecy and privacy of their work. There was someone on the list a while ago who said that he'd seen the Klingklang studio, but then on this list we tend to get lots of rumours :) |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "I didn't want to make music any longer. I didn't want to be a robot. I didn't want to make concerts, even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years" --- Wolfgang Fleur, on leaving Kraftwerk in 1987. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 09:12:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Moog Cookbook Really-From: NDKent@aol.com Tom (Thistlethwaite) mentions Moog Orchestra circa 1978. >>For anyone interested, people have being doing this sort of thing for years.<< True the phenomena of doing synth arrangements of non-synth music has been around since Switched On Bach made the rock charts and became one if not the biggest selling classical instrumental album of all time. While this genre diminished by the mid 70s it went up a bit with Star Wars (and Tomita's superbly engineered albums check out his THE PLANETS from 1976! with massive electronics with a bit Mellotron) and back down again by the 80s It hasn't gone away. Look Klaus Schulze did an all classical album a couple years back and did a cover version Conquest of Paradise (what a laugh!). More specifically, I am talking about (re: Moog Cookbook) the recent phenomenon of using synths to make *intentionally* dated and cheesy sounds to be hip. The Rentals are guilty (I give them a thumbs down). Stereolab got into the game before anyone else I know of did, and they add updated and original musical values to a neo-motorik sound (I find them very interesting though don't like them wholeheartedly). Pizzacato Five mine early pop electronica for tounge in cheek material. In the early 70s most big labels had a couple of synth albums by inept and or incencere artists. It's interesting a few artists now are intentionally wanting to sound retro and or lounge cheese-like. Maybe some of these people actually love that sound, but I suspect many do it to just be trendy or weird. My not-original theory is that since hardcore and indusrtial have gone to the extremes of loud noise and people can't up the ante much further, some folks are countering with the opposite - music that light and catchy but also is frightning/weird because lots of X-ers parents and relatives listened this sort of thing during the space age instead of rock. The consideration I'm bringing up is that while this stuff is certainly fun. It is the oppisite of of what Kraftwerk suceeded in the past by doing. That is being the vanguard and exploring *new* directions for electronics in pop music. nicholas kent http://idfx.com/artskool/jem electronic music from japan site ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 96 15:40 +0100 Subject: Hello everybody ! Really-From: Frank.Huebenthal@t-online.de (Frank.Huebenthal) Hello everybody ! My name is Frank Huebenthal and i just subscribed the KRAFTWERK-list a few days ago. My interest in KW began in the early age of 13 years. I exactly remember what happened on a saturday afternoon in summer 1978: I sat in the garden with my (mono) radio recorder and listened to a local radio station. At that time I was not interested in music too much, but then I heard something that I should never forget: In the charts of this radio station there was a title "Die Roboter". This title was quite different from the rest of that time's music and I knew that this was something I like... OK, now you know that I'm on the list. Read you later. =================================================== ==< Frank Huebenthal from Braunschweig, Germany >== ==< Frank.Huebenthal@t-online.de >== =================================================== ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 Aug 93 23:28:39 +0000 Subject: Re: Kling-Klang Really-From: Brendan Heading >Hello to everybody on the Kraftwerk-list. I'm a new subscriber of >this list and my name is Claudio Giovanni Chiriatti. >Well, I do send this mail because I want to know >something about the mysterious Kling-Klang studio. >Who of the subscribers can give me informations about this subject ? Greetings, Claudio. Um, the question you ask is very hard to answer, Kraftwerk's current members do not like to disclose the location or the nature of their studio, they believe that it is important to the secrecy and privacy of their work. There was someone on the list a while ago who said that he'd seen the Klingklang studio, but then on this list we tend to get lots of rumours :) |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "I didn't want to make music any longer. I didn't want to be a robot. I didn't want to make concerts, even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years" --- Wolfgang Fleur, on leaving Kraftwerk in 1987. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 22:38:52 +0000 Subject: trancewerk Really-From: "Gustav Holmberg" "Trancewerk vol 1" is a record with Kraftwerk covers. Is it good? More info at http://www.ams.ubc.ca/citr/discord/sept95/regulars/aava2.htm Cheers! Gustav - -------------------------------------------------------------- Gustav Holmberg, PhD student, History of Science and Ideas Lund University, Sweden. Gustav.Holmberg@fil.lu.se http://www.df.lth.se/~wilt ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 07:54:25 +0200 (MST) Subject: Re: Kling-Klang Really-From: Thomas Weckert > Hello to everybody on the Kraftwerk-list. I'm a new subscriber of > this list and my name is Claudio Giovanni Chiriatti. > Well, I do send this mail because I want to know > something about the mysterious Kling-Klang studio. > Who of the subscribers can give me informations about this subject ? > > With best regards > Claudio (member of 2nd Apology) > Unfortunately, there is nothing to see, it's a house like any other one in D"usseldorf's Mintropstrasse. If you go into the inside square, you have to walk upstairs small metal stairs, and there's a door with a mail slot printed "KlingKlang Studio" on it, and that's it. Just sometimes, maybe late in the night, Ralf's black Volkswagen is parked outside on the street... Thomas ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #585 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #586 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 4 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 586 Transwerks Express Vol.1 Re: trancewerk Politics Re: trancewerk Re: Politics Zone Re: trancewerk Re: Politics Offhand Re: Politics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 08:21:32 -0400 Subject: Transwerks Express Vol.1 Really-From: "Bruce M. Lloyd" All, Has anyone picked up the disc, "Transwerks Express Vol.1" from Hypnotic (CLEO 9605-2)? I grabbed it from the shelves of HMV here in Toronto. It wasn't an import or anything, but I did pay a hefty price for it (23$ CDN). If you haven't seen it, it is essentially a cover album, with the following 11 tracks: Intro* Music Non Stop (Exis 01) The Robots (Teler's) Homecomputer (Audio Science) Metropolis (Reverse Pulse Envelope) Elektric Cafe (Purttiv J.) Computerworld (Meedom & Wind) Radioactivity (Ultravision) Trans Europe Express (Audio Science) Autobahn (Kirk) The Model (Ikon) The album is fairly good - all the songs are electronic, but don't tend to stay with the master's original concepts. It really is a younger-generation concept of what Kraftwerk sounds like - very techno, very hip-hop. The best tracks (IMHO) are: Intro, Homecomputer, Computerworld, Trans Europe Express, and The Model. Interestingly enough, though, the first track "Intro" has no band associated with it. When I first heard it, I didn't think anything of it - - then when I heard the subsequent tracks, I began to realise (and play Intro over and over again) that it could possible be Kraftwerk doing the Intro. It sounds very similar to the "Sella Field" number that Kraftwerk did for MTV. Very moody, very ... well ... Kraftwerk. I would like to know what anyone else thinks - if you have this disc. I'm willing to bet that this track, Intro, was done by Kraftwerk! Which would be interesting - probably they only thing they've done in the year 1995 (when this disc was produced)! Regards, Bruce +- The above message came from the brain of Bruce M. Lloyd. Tell me I'm the one you're dreaming of. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 14:20:52 +0100 Subject: Re: trancewerk Really-From: lbo At 22:38 02/06/96 +0000, you wrote: >"Trancewerk vol 1" is a record with Kraftwerk covers. Is it good? I like it very much. anyway it should be listened with a very good hifi. I listened to it at a friend home with a very good one, then on a ghetto blaster, all another thing. I liked it all the way because I remember how it could be. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 14:51:42 MET Subject: Politics Really-From: "CHIRIATTI CLAUDIO" Again a mail of Claudio, well thanks to everyone who answered my last mail. This time I'm interested in the politics of Ralf + Florian. I don't believe that they're right extremestic but I think there are some things used in their images and textes which could be quite misunderstundable. For example the strange tie Ralf wears on the photograph at the inside of the "Radio-Aktivitaet"-album, another one is a textpassage of "Autobahn" Ralf sung at the concert in the Tokyo-Budokan hall in 1981 ("...wir fahren durch die Zone auf der Autobahn")."Zone" was a very bad term for the former GDR and has often been used by very nationalistic people or people who didn't accept the dividing of germany. The reason for this mail is the question if someone of the subscribers can tell me something about the politics of Kraftwerk. Thank you, Claudio ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 09:49:57 -0400 Subject: Re: trancewerk Really-From: "Bruce M. Lloyd" >I like it very much. anyway it should be listened with a very good hifi. I >listened to it at a friend home with a very good one, then on a ghetto >blaster, all another thing. I liked it all the way because I remember how >it could be. If you're going to listen to anything in Dolby Surround sound on this CD, listen to track 1, "Intro". Another reason why I think this is done by Kraftwerk - Dolby makes this the most eerie, spooky sounding track I have ever heard. It makes me jump everytime I hear it... +- The above message came from the brain of Bruce M. Lloyd. Tell me I'm the one you're dreaming of. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 10:08:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: "Bruce M. Lloyd" >Again a mail of Claudio, well thanks to everyone who answered my last >mail. This time I'm interested in the politics of Ralf + Florian. I >don't believe that they're right extremestic but I think there are >some things used in their images and textes which could be quite >misunderstundable. For example the strange tie Ralf wears on the >photograph at the inside of the "Radio-Aktivitaet"-album, another one >is a textpassage of "Autobahn" Ralf sung at the concert in the >Tokyo-Budokan >hall in 1981 ("...wir fahren durch die Zone auf der Autobahn")."Zone" >was a very bad term for the former GDR and has often been used by >very nationalistic people or people who didn't accept the dividing of >germany. The reason for this mail is the question if someone of the >subscribers can tell me something about the politics of Kraftwerk. >Thank you, Claudio I think we've been down this road once before. I spoke of this at one point when there were some bad problems with skinheads and the like in Germany (like within the last 6 years). I asked about Kraftwerk's political ideas, and was blasted from virtually everyone for asking this question. You might be too - there are some people who put KW on a pedestal and anything that could possible be negative about them is forbidden. Perhaps a rosy view of reality is better than reality itself? Don't be afraid to ask questions! +- The above message came from the brain of Bruce M. Lloyd. Tell me I'm the one you're dreaming of. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 19:36:28 +0000 Subject: Zone Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" > Really-From: "CHIRIATTI CLAUDIO" : > > I'm interested in the politics of Ralf + Florian. I think there are > some things used in their images and textes which could be quite > misunderstundable. Ralf sung at the concert in the Tokyo-Budokan > hall in 1981 ("...wir fahren durch die Zone auf der Autobahn")."Zone" > was a very bad term for the former GDR This is *complete* nonsense! The correct term for the so-called "GDR" was "Sowjetische Besatzungszone", and "Zone" was simply used as an abbreviation for that term. From the West German point of view (and as you may know, Ralf Huetter was a West German) "GDR" was the "bad" term, at least until the end of the Eighties. > and has often been used by very nationalistic people > or people who didn't accept the dividing of germany. Which was the huge majority of people in *both* the FRG and the Zone. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 14:57:41 -0300 Subject: Re: trancewerk Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) >"Trancewerk vol 1" is a record with Kraftwerk covers. Is it good? I bought this CD around one year ago, and in that period just played it three or four times. IMHO, it's a poor tribute to KW, repetitive and boring. Most of the versions sounds like any actual electronic band, and the only connection with the original song is the title. I thought that "Trans Slovenia Express" is much more interesting, if you're wanting for KW covers. In this one the versions are very creative and, sometimes, surprising. The only problem with this CD are the two disgusting original tracks of Laibach, with absolutely NO relation with KW music!!! =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 14:21:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" At 02:51 PM 6/3/96 +0100, "CHIRIATTI CLAUDIO" wrote: >germany. The reason for this mail is the question if someone of the >subscribers can tell me something about the politics of Kraftwerk. >Thank you, Claudio This always proves to be an interesting topic of conversational regarding Kraftwerk, probably because it is one that we all know the least about. While I cannot claim to know any of KW's political affiliations (if there indeed are any), I find that it is interesting to examine some of the political hype and guesswork that has been attributed to KW in the past. The following is an excerpt from Pascal Bussy's book "Kraftwerk: Man, Machine, and Music", in which he discusses the effect that 'The Man-Machine' had in creating some interesting political ramifications: ******************** "Clearly the image of a group dressed in military-type uniforms could be conceived as controversial and having possible austere fascistic overtones (red & black being the Nazi colours). However, the ever dominant red, together with the fact that the group are facing East in both photographs make it clear that there was an Eastern European influence at work...All this, combined with the Russian influenced artwork, including the Russian subtitle, made the Communist implications prevalent. It was a brilliant juxtaposition of politically influenced images. As Karl Bartos remembers, 'Man Machine had a strong paramilitary image, but it is a contradiction because we wore red shirts and not brown.' ...A lot of people saw the irony of such artistic statements, but inevitably some took it at face value and wrongly assumed it was endorsing facsism." ******************** This sort of thing happens all the time with artists, and especially those who come locations in and around the vicinity of Germanic areas. Front242 have also been labeled "Nazis" and "skinheads" by many people because these people wrongly associate Front242 as being from Germany when in fact they are from Belgium. Furthermore, I feel that it is assinine to label any artist or individual as endorsing any particular political view based on 1) the area in which they reside or on 2) the content of their art. I suppose that since Steven Spielberg directed a movie about fascism during WWII (Schindler's List), that makes him a Nazi as well... Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "We're charging our battery..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:04:36 -0600 Subject: Offhand Really-From: Bob Potter =09 Sorry that this is totally unrelated... Is there a digest # assigned to each piece of mail and if so could it be = added to that piece of mail for further reference? Did I miss something = stating the digest #? Is this even a creditable idea? Opinions? ~Bob ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 08:01:44 +0200 (MST) Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: Thomas Weckert On Mon, 3 Jun 1996, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@cs.uwp.edu that > says: 'unsubscribe kraftwerk' and 'unsubscribe kraftwerk-digest' in the > message body. All messages sent to this list are automatically made available > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Really-From: "Bruce M. Lloyd" > > > >Again a mail of Claudio, well thanks to everyone who answered my last > >mail. This time I'm interested in the politics of Ralf + Florian. I > >don't believe that they're right extremestic but I think there are > >some things used in their images and textes which could be quite > >misunderstundable. For example the strange tie Ralf wears on the > >photograph at the inside of the "Radio-Aktivitaet"-album, another one > >is a textpassage of "Autobahn" Ralf sung at the concert in the > >Tokyo-Budokan > >hall in 1981 ("...wir fahren durch die Zone auf der Autobahn")."Zone" > >was a very bad term for the former GDR and has often been used by > >very nationalistic people or people who didn't accept the dividing of > >germany. The reason for this mail is the question if someone of the > >subscribers can tell me something about the politics of Kraftwerk. > >Thank you, Claudio > > I think we've been down this road once before. I spoke of this at one > point when there were some bad problems with skinheads and the like in > Germany (like within the last 6 years). I asked about Kraftwerk's > political ideas, and was blasted from virtually everyone for asking this > question. > > You might be too - there are some people who put KW on a pedestal and > anything that could possible be negative about them is forbidden. > Perhaps a rosy view of reality is better than reality itself? Really very good!!!!!! > > Don't be afraid to ask questions! > Even better!! Thomas > > > +- > The above message came from the brain of Bruce M. Lloyd. Tell me I'm the > one you're dreaming of. > > ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #586 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #587 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 4 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 587 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:03:18 +0100 Subject: Re: trancewerk Really-From: lbo >If you're going to listen to anything in Dolby Surround sound on this CD, >listen to track 1, "Intro". Another reason why I think this is done by well, I don't know if kw are really involved in this work, anyway I agree with you: that was the track I was mainly thinking to. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:03:26 +0100 Subject: Kraftwerk saved my life! Really-From: lbo >My interest in KW began in the early age of 13 years. I exactly remember >I heard something that >I should never forget: >"Die Roboter". I see some common pattern here... let me tell you my story. in '77 I was 13-14, like you, and was very undecided about the kind secondary school I was going to enroll me. in Italy we have, more or less, to choose from classical or scientific or techical address. for what parents are concerned, smarter boys are supposed to go classical, average go scientific and dumb technical-industrial. well, I was considered a smart one, and was not involved very much with music, but then I see a Radioactivity video of Kraftwerk on tv, and *Flash!*, I knew it: I'll take a nuclear techician degree, that was what really happened some years later. you're listening to a Perito Capotecnico Industriale per le applicazioni dell'Energia Nucleare! it's actually only a piece of paper, anyway, good to enroll to university or for other bureaucratic purposes, because none of my jobs were or could be related to nuclear technologies. it's just a technician degree with a small nuclear flavour. I also was a little disappointed by the eco-anti-nuclear trend my patron saints have take... :-) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:03:37 +0100 Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: lbo >The following is an excerpt from Pascal Bussy's book "Kraftwerk: Man, > "Clearly the image of a group dressed in military-type uniforms >red, together with the fact that the group are facing East in both well scott, while I find your mex very interesting, I think that here Pascal should be intended to write ironically. I also tried, for a declared funny provocation, to post mexages in a SF fido conference in which I analyzed Star Wars simmetrically as a left-feminist and as well as a right-patriarcal movie. just a sofism exercixe. uniforms and reactionary violence was used in both left and right and east and west dictatorship, as well as a so-called "socialization" of wealth resources, so they are in my opinion the same thing. for what concerns use of red-white-black, I don't know because I'm not german, but I think anybody would be proud of the colours of his nation. here in Italy we have political movements that usurped the colours of our flag, green-white-red, and of the name of our Nation, Italia, so if you use them because you like to be Italian, you are automatically related to this parties. (maybe it's a luck that green-white-red are really ugly to dress... :-) ) so if I see a german that use or dress red-white-black I'm glad for him, because it's a nice sensation to be part of your nation, whatever this nation should be. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:03:33 +0100 Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: lbo >germany. The reason for this mail is the question if someone of the >subscribers can tell me something about the politics of Kraftwerk. hi Claudio... strange to talk to another italian in english... that's life on a mailing list! well, for what I know, K never related to any ideology and could not be called left or right as we used to do for anything in Italy. only relatively recently they take some position to echology issues, but always in an apolitical form. there would be a lot to say about industrial or electronic music, its iconography and its rigorous aspects being left or right, but this would surely bring to flames and is a matter I found a little stupid. for instance, here in Italy anything that sound german, say a rhytmical song in german, is unconsciously related to the worst aspects of the rights (maybe memories from the war), when instead we consciously know that germans are nice people like anybody else. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 96 13:03:03 EDT Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle As it says in the sleevenotes of MAN MACHINE, the artwork for that album was inspired by El Lizzitsky, a Russian artist of the Bauhaus school. This more or less explains the red, white and black. Bauhaus had no links with the Nazis! In fact, I THINK I am correct in saying that the Bauhaus was closed down by the Nazis in 1933. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 08:35:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" At 11:03 AM 6/4/96 +0100, lbo wrote: >uniforms and reactionary violence was used in both left and right and east >and west dictatorship, as well as a so-called "socialization" of wealth >resources, so they are in my opinion the same thing. That's a good point. I suppose many people just don't associate the facets of uniforms and reactionary violence withg leftist politics nearly as much as rightist politics because of the lasting impact of World War II and the Holocaust. I know this is not the case, but even if Kraftwerk had purposely intended for the imagery on 'The Man-Machine' to reflect Nazi paraphernalia, it would not bother me. In my opinion, 'The Man-Machine' is simply a work of art and does not claim to represent or signify the ideas, opinions, or personal moral values of the artists who created it. I think people who reacted negatively to the imagery of 'The Man-Machine' when it came out in 1978 were missing the point altogether. Let's not forget: One year after 'The Man-Machine' came out, Pink Floyd released their classic double-album entitled 'The Wall' in 1979. This album was loaded to the hilt with blatant fascist imagery, particularly corresponding to the Nazi movement. The theme of the album revolved around memories of WWII and the comparison that can be drawn between modern day rock concerts and fascist states of order (or disorder, as the case may be). Clearly this album does not mean that Roger Waters and David Gilmour were fascists promoting Nazi ideology, even though the fascist symbols on their album were much more blatant than Kraftwerk's. Anyway, my point was just that I wonder if Pink Floyd also received some type of overwhelming negative reaction to this album for its content? Any other Pink Floyd fans out here know the story with this one? Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Music Non Stop.....TechnoPop." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 14:46:40 +0200 (MDT) Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: Anders Wilhelm > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@cs.uwp.edu that > says: 'unsubscribe kraftwerk' and 'unsubscribe kraftwerk-digest' in the > message body. All messages sent to this list are automatically made available > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle > > > As it says in the sleevenotes of MAN MACHINE, the artwork for that > album was inspired by El Lizzitsky, a Russian artist of the Bauhaus > school. This more or less explains the red, white and black. Bauhaus > had no links with the Nazis! In fact, I THINK I am correct in saying > that the Bauhaus was closed down by the Nazis in 1933. > Isn't the whole idea of Kraftwerk to connect Germany of the late 20th century with the german cultural heritage, that is their influence from 19th century romantics like Franz Schubert, and also the industrial, minimalistic school of Bauhaus. I do not believe that Kraftwerk does take any political stand at all. Concering the political ideas of the individuals that form Kraftwerk, I believe that it is their own personal business, and not ours... /anders - -- *************************************************************************** * Anders Wilhelm * em: dvlawm@cs.umu.se * "I program my Home-computer, * * Umea University * url:http://wwwtdb.cs.* feel myself into the future" * * Sweden * umu.se/~dvlawm/ * -Florian Schneider, 1981 * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 15:27:44 MET Subject: "Zone" answer to Klaus Really-From: "CHIRIATTI CLAUDIO" I don't believe that's complete nonsense to say "Zone" is a "bad" term for the former GDR. I still believe that it is a term which has a very "bad" sounding in my ears. I've just found it very strange that a band like Kraftwerk used this term which reflects in my eyes a sort of a political statement in a typical Kraftwerk-way (very minimalistic). You're right Klaus when you say that the correct term was "Sowjetische Besatzungszone" but I think even the abbreviation "Zone" has been a not fitting term in the early eighties (and not only at the end of the eighties). Pascal Bussy has written in his book that Ralf Huetter even had some relations in the former GDR. So with that background in my mind it sounds even stranger that they used this term. I think this is a discussion forum so don't take it too personal. Greetings Claudio ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 08:55:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: pjschill@students.wisc.edu (Paul Schilling) >In my opinion, 'The Man-Machine' is >simply a work of art and does not claim to represent or signify the ideas, >opinions, or personal moral values of the artists who created it. Maybe I'm not interpreting this right (I pretty much agree with the rest of your statements), but how can you separate the artists and their art? I very much care about the ideas, opinions and personal moral values of the artists who create art that I admire. If I had very good reason to believe that their views violated my principles or values, that'd be it for me, no more Kraftwerk. Fortunately, this hasn't happened yet (to the contrary). Paul ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 11:14:23 -0300 Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) >Anyway, my point was just >that I wonder if Pink Floyd also received some type of overwhelming negative >reaction to this album for its content? Any other Pink Floyd fans out here >know the story with this one? I thought that Pink Floyd's lyrics are clearly against the fascism and militarism. Moreover it's a english band, and not german. When KW stands in a cover album with red and black dresses, the songs had dubious lyrics AND it's a german band, the people immediately says : "They are Nazi!!" Of course, a more accurate analysis of KW's music, the themes of the songs and the practice of to use a lot of languages for the vocals will make any sensible guy change his mind!! =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 16:21:43 +0200 Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) Yes, the Man Machine is a parody of the typical poster of the early communist propaganda in Russia. The style is here. Other strange fact concerning the album of Balanecu Quartet which plays Kraftwerk music. The dominating colours are also red-white-black and the disposition of characters looks very similar to a svastika in multiple maneers. Also the album is called 'possessed' and the characters ss are very stylised... I know that of course that's not KW who did that, but there's a doubt about Mr.Balanescu vision of KW... Another point. Scott talked about Pink Floyd, with their well known hammers crossed ( another way to remind a svastika ) painted in RWB and marching as soldiers. However nobody misunderstood PF and nobody accused them to be Nazi, maybe because they were Engilsh, not german. Too many people have the wrong association between german people and facism, and then KW is another victim of this. I totally agree with Anders W. Kraftwerk don't tries to pass any *political* message. And the opinions of its memebers... leave it for themselves. Timour PS: the european launcher Ariane 5 has crashed!!! oh god! - -- ________________________________________________________________ /_ Timour JGENTI ________ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE __/\ \/ timour.jgenti@ifp.fr \__ DIMA, groupe Image ____________/\ \ \ /_ http://www.utbm.fr/les.personnes/lu.chen/timourpages/tim.html \/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 12:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" >> As it says in the sleevenotes of MAN MACHINE, the artwork for that >> album was inspired by El Lizzitsky, a Russian artist of the Bauhaus >> school. This more or less explains the red, white and black. This is correct. Kraftwerk made no secret of the fact that the cover art of 'The Man-Machine' done by Karl Klefisch was inspired by the Russian artist El Lissitzky. Furthermore, the typefaces and cubist shapes present on the original cover of the album were supposedly a tribute to early 1920s Russian constructivist art. Bussy also points out that perhaps the main reason why Kraftwerk included the text "inspired by El Lissitzky" on the front cover was due to their legal concerns over plagiarizing. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "It's in the air for you and me..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:42:37 -0600 (MDT) Subject: META: Offhand Really-From: "Lazlo Nibble" > Is there a digest # assigned to each piece of mail and if so could it be = > added to that piece of mail for further reference? Majordomo doesn't number individual messages, only digests. - -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:49:46 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: "Lazlo Nibble" > Another point. Scott talked about Pink Floyd, with their well known > hammers crossed ( another way to remind a svastika ) painted in RWB and > marching as soldiers. However nobody misunderstood PF and nobody accused > them to be Nazi, maybe because they were Engilsh, not german. As others have pointed out, the spectre of fascism comes up in The Wall specifically so it can be derided -- I can't imagine anyone seeing The Wall as a *pro*-fascist album, no matter who recorded it. Kraftwerk were far more ambiguous in their use of pseudo-fascist imagery, and thereby opened themselves up to misinterpretation. - -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:28:31 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #586 (Trancewerk / Politics) Really-From: Anders Wahlbom On Tue, 4 Jun 1996 kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu wrote: > > Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) > > >"Trancewerk vol 1" is a record with Kraftwerk covers. Is it good? > > I bought this CD around one year ago, and in that period just played it > three or four times. IMHO, it's a poor tribute to KW, repetitive and > boring. Most of the versions sounds like any actual electronic band, > and the only connection with the original song is the title. > I thought that "Trans Slovenia Express" is much more interesting, if > you're wanting for KW covers. In this one the versions are very > creative and, sometimes, surprising. The only problem with this > CD are the two disgusting original tracks of Laibach, with absolutely > NO relation with KW music!!! 'Ere, I feel I have to speak up: 1) "Disgusting": OK, that's your point of view and even though I disagree I won't argue with that (although I'm curious as to what you find disgusting about them)... 2) "Not KW-related": Well... they are not cover versions, but on "Zrcalo Sveta", the echoes of "The Hall Of Mirrors" are rather obvious, while on "3. Oktober", I hope I'm not the only one to hear some *very* KW-like rhythms. ("3. Oktober", BTW, was originally a cover version of Queen's "One Vision", but for TSE, the Queen elements were mixed out.) 3) I have to say, though, that Laibach *could* have placed some original material on the compilation, as both tracks have been released before... Scott M. Barnhill also wrote this: > This sort of thing happens all the time with artists, and especially > those who come locations in and around the vicinity of Germanic areas. > Front242 have also been labeled "Nazis" and "skinheads" by many people > because these people wrongly associate Front242 as being from Germany when > in fact they are from Belgium. Furthermore, I feel that it is assinine to > label any artist or individual as endorsing any particular political view > based on 1) the area in which they reside or on 2) the content of their art. Quite agree there... Some of my favourite bands have from time to time been accused of being neo-Nazis - *I've* been accused of being a Nazi because I listen to them! (Of course, this is not the case... I hope it goes without saying that I'm strongly opposed to fascism.) Some examples: Deutsch-Amerikanische Freundschaft: Their classic "Der Mussolini" was *not* a tribute, but rather an attempt at dragging the names "Mussolini" and "Adolf Hitler" through the dirt by making a silly disco dance out of them... Die Krupps: although they are openly *anti-*Nazis (case in point: "Fatherland", which is about the Nazi attack where a Turkish family were burnt to death), they are often accused of being right-wingers simply because they are German. Laibach: I must confess I have sometimes wondered myself exactly *where* they stand, but now I think I've read enough about them to say they're not Nazis. (Especially if you listen to their early works...) Before anyone points to the swastika made out of four axes they used on the inner sleeve of "Opus Dei", I'll tell you that it was designed by the famous (INfamous in Nazi Germany) anti-Nazi artist John Heartfield, to symbolize the brutality of the Third Reich. I might also mention their use of symbols such as the Jewish star, Amnesty International's candle, and the United Nations symbol... The point I'm trying to make is probably the same as Scott's... Sorry if it's a bit off-topic (although not a large bit). (Oh, incidentally, I maintain discographies for the three above bands... The URL where they can be found is in my .sig.) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anders Wahlbom (awahlbom@update.uu.se) http://www.update.uu.se/~awahlbom/ - --------------------------------- NOW PLAYING: Nits: "Bike In Head (Elephant Mix)" (The remix reminds me a bit of "Tour de France"...) ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #587 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #588 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 4 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 588 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:45:15 MET Subject: of course not Nazis Really-From: "CHIRIATTI CLAUDIO" Of course I don't think that KW are Nazis or right extremistic but I wanted to know how other Kraftwerk-fans are thinking about the political oppinion of KW. Anyway, I pesonally do like their way of expressing themselves and I know that the Man-Machine cover has been influenced by El Lissitzky but I wanted to see how other people of other countries and with a different cultural background do think about this, well, very specific theme which has always been a point of criticism by non KW-fans. Okay, thanks to everyone who answered. Bye, Claudio ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 20:51:07 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Re: Newbie Really-From: Iggy Drougge On Fri, 31 May 1996, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) > > > > If anything I'll probably just add comments rather then fact as I am > probably >below the common knowledge level of the list (but this is how we > learn right?) I am >very interested in facts about the group. I only have a > couple of albums though I get >the urge to purchase more every time I here > those guys... Looking forward to future >mailings. > >~Bob > > > Buy: > Autobahn, Trans Europe Express, Man Machine, Computer World And don't forget Pascal Bussy's book "Kraftwerk - Man, Machine and Music", just got it while in London, it's a treat. > Avoid: > Electric Cafe No, buy it! "The Telephone Call" is one of my KW favourites. > Consider: > The Mix, Radioactivity and early kwerk albums. They're both good, haven't heard the earlier albums. =-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=->X<-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+- // Mail: optimus@canit.se Y Transformer collector| // \X/ Mail: unniggy@algonet.se | Amiga user | \X/ WWW: http://www.canit.se/~optimus | Sonic Code: Sal+++!^ |SWEDEN RULES!!! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 04 Jun 96 14:53:06 EDT Subject: Aktivitaet 5 - 'Man Machine At Large' Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> 'Man Machine At Large' Aktivitaet 5 - December 1993 (Revised, updated June 1996) Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Everyone remembers 'The Man Machine' as one of Kraftwerk's most well known LPs, but in terms of promotion it did not receive the saturation coverage, such as a world tour of live concerts, that the subsequent 'Computer World' LP enjoyed. However, although Kraftwerk did not tour in 1978 they did certainly interact with the world's media to launch the LP. Now, I have to admit that I am a bit vague on the subject - since all this promotion was from foreign shores, very little leaked into the UK media. Whatever, it is worth pooling what info is known for the benefit of this article. This era witnessed the birth of the bands mannequins. Fashioned from existing mannequins into plasticised doppelgangers of the group members, they were to play a vital role in the promotion of the LP and undertake most of the photographic duties (which the band have documented their distaste of so well). Foremost amongst the promotion were the launch parties held especially for the LP. I know very little of the one held in New York, though the Paris bash is well documented, chiefly from reviews in UK music papers (MM, 22.4.78 - NME, 29.4.78). Held 56 floors up above Paris, in a club called Le Ciel de Paris, in the Tour Montparnasse building, the 'Soiree Rouge' was essentially the premiere of the LP to the media. There was more to distract the media than the sounds of the LP itself however; the bands mannequins, complete with some instruments, were also on display. The promo video for 'The Robots' also added a visual aspect which was backed up with the showing of black and white films from an earlier period - amongst them, Fritz Lang's 'Metropolis'. Refreshments for the guests; vodka and caviar! The report in the NME describes it as being quite an oppressive environment when the various elements were in full swing; the music too loud, bright red strobe lights flashing everywhere; heavens! - even the vodka supplies soon dried up! The band themselves made a brief appearance in the flesh eventually. The invitations to the 'Soiree Rouge' had stipulated that guests wear red, obviously in accordance with the Constructivist-inspired imagery of the LP sleeve art. In a perverse twist however, the band themselves were dressed in *black* clothes with red ties - an intentional inversion of the pre-publicised 'Man Machine' image, which would differentiate the band from their mannequins, not to mention the numerous 'Man Machine' clones amongst the guests! Nice one, chaps. As is now commonly known, a promo video was made for 'The Robots' single, which was obviously premiered at the 'Soiree Rouge' event. However, there is also a promotional video for 'Neon Licht' in existence. When this video was originally described in Aktivitaet, the reviewer stated that it was in B&W; this is incorrect, the clip, if found in good quality, is indeed in colour. The other well-circulated appearance is of 'Das Model', from a German TV show. Again, there has been some doubt as to whether this actually dates from the singles original release or from a later re-issue; I can confirm here that it is from 1982 *not* 1978. The band also performed on both French and Italian TV shows. Many fans seem to have copies of the photos that originate from the behind the scenes at the French TV appearance - these, for some reason, are in quite wide circulation. The TV appearance itself is far more elusive, to these shores at least. The Italian TV appearances appear to have been on the 'Domenica in' and '10 Hertz' shows, performing 'The Robots'. While in Italy, the band also made some kind of appearance at a music show/festival in Venice. It's probable they were there to perform only 'The Robots' once again, though I admit that's a guess - exactly what the bands involvement was is vague, though two of the pictures that accompany this article are very unique; this is obviously the occasion where the dummies 'interacted' with the band by being seated in the audience, an event which Ralf Huetter has referred to in subsequent music paper interviews. If Ralf is to be believed, the band were obliged to accommodate the mannequins amongst the audience by buying tickets for them with their own money! (See quote in the 'What The Papers Say' article.) So, while they may not have toured the world with a series of live concerts as they did in 1981, Kraftwerk certainly didn't sit at home in Kling Klang all year! Ian Calder * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * UPDATE (June 1996) Since the original publication of this article, further details have now come to light, principally via Aktivitaet contributor Klaus Zaepke. The promotional appearance in Venice appears to have taken place in early October of 1978, an interview with Ralf Huetter in a Spanish magazine was conducted in Venice on 7th October. The Italian magazine 'Ciao 2001', 5th November 1978, contains excellent pictures from the bands appearance in Venice. Kraftwerk were back in Italy in early December when they appeared on the Italian TV shows 'Domenica In' and '10 Hertz'. 'Domenica In' was broadcast live on Sunday 3rd of December, while the band made their appearance on the '10 Hertz' show on Monday the 4th of December. While on this short promo trip to Italy the band also took part in press and radio interviews and posed for press photos. Mention is also made of an EMI records concert held at the Teatro Olimpico in Rome on the 4th of December, but no more details are known of what Kraftwerk's involvement, if any, was. The New York launch was held much earlier in the year and the venue for this soiree is now known, it being the Allied Pictures Studio, Park Avenue. As well as French and Italian TV shows, Kraftwerk also made a studio appearance on a German TV show, 'Rockpop', 1st April 1978. Excerpts from this appearance have been repeated in a later show, the 'Technotrance' feature on 3-Sat from 1993. In addition, Kraftwerk were also offered an appearance on another German TV show, 'Hitparade' (the most popular German music show of that era), but they turned down the offer. The bands appearance on French TV was on a show called 'Pop 2', the venue being 'L'Empire', 15th October 1978. - - END -- ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 04 Jun 96 14:54:37 EDT Subject: RE: Moogcookbook Really-From: Thistlethwaite <100341.2320@CompuServe.COM> Nick, Was Switched On Bach the first recreated music on synth? Surely someone else had the idea first as is often the way with great ideas but maybe I don't give Walter/Wendy Carlos enough credit. As far as Moog Cookbook is concerned and the modern phenomena of ancient synth fashion both in guitar based stuff and the electronic domain, I think there is more to it than just using the machines to sound *internationally* hip. While many are surely influenced by fashion and a desire to copy and evolve from the originators(who were either using the stuff first time 'round being rich or conversly being poor when everyone else was obssessed by digital) the machines and sounds have many merits as the analogue vs. digital wars in this mailing list have testified. Personally, I love Stereolab but I do think that it is more than just the keyboard sounds as the singing and its harmonies, percussion parts, and the music in general show. Clearly the machines are intrinsic to the sound and there is a nostalgic and dare I say it, kitsch aspect. The non-original theory holds some ground but I think there is probably more to it and if anything, the easy listening fashion reflects the continuing diversity in culture and people's attempts at making their own cliques and fashions. >The consideration I'm bringing up is that >while this stuff is certainly fun. >It is the oppisite of of what Kraftwerk >suceeded in the past by doing. That >is being the vanguard and exploring *new* >directions for electronics in pop >music. The interesting and alluring question is how the hell are they going to do it now? The Mix had a slightly derivative element to it (whether good or bad) and with such ground breaking music like drum and bass around today, how are they going to continue to fufil this role? Later on, Tom ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 21:39:53 +0200 Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: Michael Melzer At 11:03 4.6.96 +0100, you wrote: >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@cs.uwp.edu that >says: 'unsubscribe kraftwerk' and 'unsubscribe kraftwerk-digest' in the >message body. All messages sent to this list are automatically made available >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ lbo wrote >for what concerns use of red-white-black, I don't know because I'm not >german, but I think anybody would be proud of the colours of his nation. I dont know how the german guys on this list feel, but for me red-white-black symbol the colors of-Nazi germany as this colors were used in the hakenkreuz. Todays german flag is black-red-yellow (or gold ?). Scott M. Barnhill wrote: >Anyway, my point was just >that I wonder if Pink Floyd also received some type of overwhelming negative >reaction to this album for its content? I think unlike KW albums "the Wall" has got a strong political impact and I think its obvious that it is not a facistoid statement. I do think the contrary is the case. I completly agree with Lazlos point of view. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 21:40:05 +0200 Subject: Guten Abend Really-From: Michael Melzer As I am quite new to this list I would like to introduce myself a bid, but first I would like to apologize for my english mistakes and poor style as I realized that my language skills are far beyond those of most members on this list. I am 29 years old, studied business administration and work in Vienna, Austria. I like Kraftwerk since 1981 (Computerwelt) but my interest in their music grew in the last years (since the Mix). I prefer listening to the KW albums since Die Mensch Maschine (1978 I think) but also consider their early works as milestones in modern music. As KW collectors items (live recordings, 12"es) are quite difficult to find in Austria (I bought most of my stuff in NY and London) I would be glad for recommandation of interting record stores especially in Germany, London and NY. You can mail me directly h8551159@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at. Thats all for now Michael ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 21:45:54 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: Iggy Drougge > Really-From: "CHIRIATTI CLAUDIO" > > > Again a mail of Claudio, well thanks to everyone who answered my last > mail. This time I'm interested in the politics of Ralf + Florian. I > don't believe that they're right extremestic but I think there are > some things used in their images and textes which could be quite > misunderstundable. For example the strange tie Ralf wears on the > photograph at the inside of the "Radio-Aktivitaet"-album, another one > is a textpassage of "Autobahn" Ralf sung at the concert in the Tokyo-Budokan > hall in 1981 ("...wir fahren durch die Zone auf der Autobahn")."Zone" > was a very bad term for the former GDR and has often been used by > very nationalistic people or people who didn't accept the dividing of > germany. The reason for this mail is the question if someone of the > subscribers can tell me something about the politics of Kraftwerk. Well, they have said very little about politics, if anything. Ralf (?) has stated some things about the "mother language" and the such, and they before had a very "German" profile, but it shouldn't be taken seriously. Then there's their Sellafield concert, but they only played, never uttered any word beyond the lyrics. Being environmentalists in some way, according to Bussy's book, a Greenpeace concert might not be too out of character for them. =-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=->X<-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+-=-+X+- // Mail: optimus@canit.se Y Transformer collector| // \X/ Mail: unniggy@algonet.se | Amiga user | \X/ WWW: http://www.canit.se/~optimus | Sonic Code: Sal+++!^ |SWEDEN RULES!!! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 15:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" At 08:55 AM 6/4/96 -0500, pjschill@students.wisc.edu (Paul Schilling) wrote: >Maybe I'm not interpreting this right (I pretty much agree with the rest of >your statements), but how can you separate the artists and their art? Of course in one sense, an artist is directly correlated to his art by virtue of the fact that he has created it and is thus, attached to it. The best analogy I can give to exemplify the point I was trying to make would be this: The way I see it, an artist is like a mother and the art is like a child. The two elements are obviously connected to one another, yet the child will not necessarily have all the same opinions, concerns, political motivations, and moral values as that of the mother. Similarly, an artist is attached to his art, but this does not necessarily mean that the art is expressing a statement of the artist's belief system. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Life is timeless..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 22:00:14 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: Iggy Drougge > Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle > Bauhaus had no links with the Nazis! In fact, I THINK I am correct in=20 > saying that the Bauhaus was closed down by the Nazis in 1933. Correct, H=FCtter (?) said so too in an interview in Swedish pop Magazine= =20 Schlager at the Computer World tour, when asked about the fascism=20 accusations, saying that the Nazis worked in the direct opposite=20 direction of Kraftwerk. =3D-+X+-=3D-+X+-=3D-+X+-=3D-+X+-=3D-+X+-=3D-+X+-=3D->X<-=3D-+X+-=3D-+X+-=3D= - -+X+-=3D-+X+-=3D-+X+-=3D-+X+- // Mail: optimus@canit.se Y Transformer collector| = // \X/ Mail: unniggy@algonet.se | Amiga user | \= X/ WWW: http://www.canit.se/~optimus | Sonic Code: Sal+++!^ |SWEDEN RULES= !!! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 17 Aug 93 00:38:17 +0000 Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: Brendan Heading >As it says in the sleevenotes of MAN MACHINE, the artwork for that That just reminded ne, relating to this whole politics thing : Someone was saying earlier that Man Machine's cover was a kind of statement about the Communist propaganda posters in Russia ? I figured that the lyrics in Die Roboter were pretty, er, funny - eg. "We are programmed just to do, anything you want us to", and "we are the robots!" Maybe criticising the situation in Russia at the time ? BTW Brian - let's not have you telling us how crap Russia in fact was and how Britian is taking over the world to rule the once great empire it had. |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Giving money to governments is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" - -- Anonymous ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 Aug 93 23:28:09 +0000 Subject: Re: Kling-Klang Really-From: Brendan Heading >Unfortunately, there is nothing to see, it's a house like any other >one in D"usseldorf's Mintropstrasse. If you go into the inside >square, you have to walk upstairs small metal stairs, and there's >a door with a mail slot printed "KlingKlang Studio" on it, and that's >it. Just sometimes, maybe late in the night, Ralf's black Volkswagen >is parked outside on the street... Are you sure about this ? Ralf and the gang are really, really secretive about the location of the studio, I can't believe that they'd go to the trouble of keeping the studio location secret and then printing "KlingKlang Studio" on their letterbox. |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "We don't need lessons from Brussels on how to be European. We have know that for centuries". -- Jean Michel Jarre ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 04 Jun 96 19:26:27 EDT Subject: The ambiguity of playing with historical imagery Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> > Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle > > As it says in the sleevenotes of MAN MACHINE, the artwork for that > album was inspired by El Lizzitsky, a Russian artist of the Bauhaus > school. This more or less explains the red, white and black. Bauhaus > had no links with the Nazis! In fact, I THINK I am correct in saying > that the Bauhaus was closed down by the Nazis in 1933. Oh yes, the Bauhaus movement were not a big hit at all after the Nazi party came to power... A previous article from Aktivitaet, 'The Artwerk Of Kraftwerk' touches upon the significance of the influence of El Lizzitsky's work on 'The Man Machine'. It can be found in digest 2.455 for anyone interested. If your familiar with it, its very easy to differentiate that Kraftwerk's imagery for that particular phase is drawn from the Communist, not Nazi, imagery, but the very people who would assume that it is the opposite case are obviously just reaching for the nearest comparison and not giving the matter the thought it requires. IMO the 'Man Machine' cover is close to the style of poster its intended to evoke, but not close enough - the band should really have been illustrated in a more heroic/optimistic pose, rather than photographed looking rather pre-occupied to their left... A number of other record sleeves, by new wave or indie bands in the main, have more succesfully carried off this pastiche. The original style of poster deliberately showed the subjects in an enhanced manner - the KW sleeve just has our four familiar subjects looking like ... Kraftwerk! (There's also the rather decadent apect at work though, with the lipstick, which no-ones mentioned yet and is another part of the equation...) The El Lizzitsky influence is definite, but the front cover imagery of 'The Man Machine' has more to do with these 'heroic worker' style of slighly later Communist posters I feel, rather than El Lizzitsky's work; his is more a prototype for the style of poster more commonly known, also in Communist China too. The back cover is a straight copy of El Lizzitsky though; 'inspired by' is a tad cheeky, methinks... The Balanescu Quartet album's graphics are much more authentic of El Lizzitsky's style - especially the typography, which was a big thing with El it seems - it is far more consistent with Lizzitsky's choices from some of his own work, very much so. Right enough though, Kraftwerk aren't the first and no doubt not the last band to have their imagery misunderstood. New Order got a lot of flak too - the name for starters! - but a few of their record sleeve designs from 1981 were (almost) direct copies of Futurist art manifesto covers, another art movement hand in hand with a political movement, in this case Fascism. Were they meddling with it? Or did they just dig the cool graphics? Like 'The Man Machine', it would be expecting a lot for universal appreciation of the imagery evoked, so they maybe have to accept that there will be misinterpretation. The real problem is that messrs Huetter and Schneider have never really spoken in huge detail about the subject and they're unlikey to now, this far on from the original release? Ian Calder * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Man Machine ... Semi-Human Being" * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:31:52 -0400 Subject: moog cookbook Really-From: Nthings@aol.com why does everyone hate this album? I think its great how they are bashing themost terrable songs ever. Its also great to dance to!! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:56:53 -0500 Subject: Pink Floyd Really-From: stdwle@shsu.edu (W. Ladd Ellett) > Anyway, my point was just >that I wonder if Pink Floyd also received some type of overwhelming negative >reaction to this album for its content? Any other Pink Floyd fans out here >know the story with this one? > Pink Floyd didn't have an overwhelming negative reaction BECAUSE the Facist elements were portrayed in a very surreal and negative light - The "machine" gone mad crushing all in its way, squelching individuality. K-werks stuff is adult but really kind of optimistic. Floyd is not at all that way. Take care. Ladd PS: You must listen to the Floyd album "Animals" to really understand The Wall. Animals is very thought provoking and has some great instrumental music as well. W.L.Ellett Email:stdwle@shsu.edu Web Page:http://www.shsu.edu/~stdwle/ ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #588 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #589 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 5 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 589 Re: Kling-Klang Re: Politics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 20:04:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Kling-Klang Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" >Are you sure about this ? Ralf and the gang are really, really secretive about >the location of the studio, I can't believe that they'd go to the trouble of >keeping the studio location secret and then printing "KlingKlang Studio" on >their letterbox. I had even once read somewhere that KlingKlang Studios does not even *have* a letterbox or mail slot, let alone a telephone number or any other means of contact. :o) An interesting concept indeed for people who have made such profound statements regarding the world of communications. I must say that I really do like their style. Ian Calder wrote in his Aktivitaet 5 article: >The invitations to the 'Soiree Rouge' had stipulated that guests wear >red, obviously in accordance with the Constructivist-inspired >imagery of the LP sleeve art. I just felt it was most appropriate that this article be presented to the mailing list now, particularly since we're all right in the midst of an in-depth discussion of 'The Man-Machine' and its possible political ideologies. By the way, another nice article, Ian. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "try to get a connection on the telephone line..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 Aug 93 23:37:23 +0000 Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: Brendan Heading >The reason for this mail is the question if someone of the subscribers can >tell me something about the politics of Kraftwerk. Thank you, Claudio Hmmm. It's never strictly been obvious what they're politics are, but in they are often easily mis-understood. For example, some people thought their love of the Autobahn was related to the fact that it was built by Hitler. As far as I know they're not Nazis or anything. I'd say, given their background, they're probably pretty liberal. |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Musak is the shit you hear in elevators and supermarkets". -- Jean Michel Jarre ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #589 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #590 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 5 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 590 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 09:34:37 +0200 (MST) Subject: Re: Kling-Klang Really-From: Thomas Weckert > >Unfortunately, there is nothing to see, it's a house like any other > >one in D"usseldorf's Mintropstrasse. If you go into the inside > >square, you have to walk upstairs small metal stairs, and there's > >a door with a mail slot printed "KlingKlang Studio" on it, and that's > >it. Just sometimes, maybe late in the night, Ralf's black Volkswagen > >is parked outside on the street... > > > Are you sure about this ? Ralf and the gang are really, really secretive about > the location of the studio, I can't believe that they'd go to the trouble of > keeping the studio location secret and then printing "KlingKlang Studio" on > their letterbox. Ok, you are right, the studio does not have a correct mail adress, but this mail slot is in the entrance door of the studio. But Joachims studio (which is in the same building) is correctly hired out. Its not "that" secret at all... Thomas ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 09:44:48 +0200 Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) > Someone was saying earlier that Man Machine's cover was a kind of statement > about the Communist propaganda posters in Russia ? I just said that it was looking like that... when I saw it for the first time, that's the first thing I thought. > I figured that the lyrics > in Die Roboter were pretty, er, funny - eg. "We are programmed just to do, > anything you want us to", and "we are the robots!" > Maybe criticising the situation in Russia at the time ? If so, they were wrong. Many people exploited in the western countries looks more like robots than the people in Russia... Just to see the system changing as well as the western one is static and... more automatical in its imperfection. Please don't take it bad, but I think not many people in "west" could understand ex-USSR as it should be understood, to be able to criticise it. cheers, Timour - -- ________________________________________________________________ /_ Timour JGENTI ________ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE __/\ \/ timour.jgenti@ifp.fr \__ DIMA, groupe Image ____________/\ \ \ /_ http://www.utbm.fr/les.personnes/lu.chen/timourpages/tim.html \/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 11:12:44 +0200 Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #589 Really-From: F.Meijer@student.frw.ruu.nl (Frank Meijer) >re you sure about this ? Ralf and the gang are really, really secretive about >the location of the studio, I can't believe that they'd go to the trouble of >keeping the studio location secret and then printing "KlingKlang Studio" on >their letterbox. >> I had even once read somewhere that KlingKlang Studios does not even >>have* a letterbox or mail slot, let alone a telephone number or any other >>means of contact. :o) An interesting concept indeed for people who have >>made such profound statements regarding the world of communications. I must >>say that I really do like their style. I didnt have the time lately to read all the Kraftwerk digests, but from the above statement I concluded that the location of the Kling Klang studio was revealed. If it is the correct street, would it be appropriate to mention it on this discussion list? Do you guys think that it is correct to do that? I know the location of the studio, but I didnt fancy to mention that on this discussion list. Should I be blamed for that or what? By the way, there is no such thing as Kling Klang Studio printed on teir door, that is stupid. At least not half a year ago. But I am really curious how you guys think about that. To what extent should we reveal information about Kraftwerk. Are there any borders? Frank Meijer ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 16:28:05 +0000 Subject: Again: Zone Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" Ooops! It seems as if the most important line from my last mail didn't appear in the digest. It should have been: > "Zone" was a very bad term for the former GDR > and has often been used by very nationalistic people Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 16:29:15 +0000 Subject: Re: "Zone" answer Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" > I don't believe that's complete nonsense to say "Zone" is a > "bad" term for the former GDR. I repeat that "GDR" was actually the "bad" term. From the West German point of view there was no GDR, therefore it would have been incorrect for West Germans to speak of a GDR. > Pascal Bussy has written in his book that Ralf Huetter even had > some relations in the former GDR. So with that background in my > mind it sounds even stranger that they used this term. They used a common (probably the most common) and correct term for this part of Germany. What's so strange with that? Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 16:31:26 +0000 Subject: Re: Kling-Klang Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" > Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" > > I had even once read somewhere that KlingKlang Studios does > not even *have* a letterbox or mail slot, let alone a telephone > number or any other means of contact. :o) An interesting concept > indeed for people who have made such profound statements regarding > the world of communications. It would be an interesting concept if this was true, but it isn't. > Really-From: F.Meijer@student.frw.ruu.nl (Frank Meijer) > > I concluded that the location of the Kling Klang studio was > revealed. If it is the correct street, would it be appropriate to mention it > on this discussion list? Do you guys think that it is correct to do > that? Why not? The address can be found in a couple of address books. > By the way, there is no such thing as Kling Klang Studio printed on teir > door, that is stupid. At least not half a year ago. This is not true. There was and is such writing. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:27:37 -0400 Subject: robot Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com The line "ja tvoi sluga, ja tvoi robotnick" (sp?) from "The Robots" is in what language? I remember Bussy's book saying that KW were amused by the Russian word 'robotnick' meaning worker. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 18:04:00 +0200 Subject: Re: "Zone" answer Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) > I repeat that "GDR" was actually the "bad" term. From the West > German point of view there was no GDR, therefore it would have > been incorrect for West Germans to speak of a GDR. However it's not very sympathic term. GDR had a legal status, it's not like Taiwan which call itself Taiwan ROC (Republic Of China)... > They used a common (probably the most common) and correct term for > this part of Germany. What's so strange with that? Maybe nothing strange for KW, but still very negative.... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 12:15:23 -0400 Subject: Re: "Techno-Pop" Bootlegs? Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com I'd like to know if anyone has it too. Does it even exist? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 12:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: robot Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" >The line "ja tvoi sluga, ja tvoi robotnick" (sp?) from "The Robots" is in >what language? I remember Bussy's book saying that KW were amused by the >Russian word 'robotnick' meaning worker. Granted I do not speak the language, but to my knowledge I was always under the impression that "Ja tvoi sluga, ja tvoi rabotnik" was Russian for "I'm your slave, I'm your worker." Furthermore, the actual letters (characters) for these words that appear in the video for "The Robots" also appear to be Russian. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "In Vienna we sit in a late night cafe..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 19:31:41 MET Subject: Re: "Zone" answer Really-From: "CHIRIATTI CLAUDIO" > > I repeat that "GDR" was actually the "bad" term. From the West > > German point of view there was no GDR, therefore it would have > > been incorrect for West Germans to speak of a GDR. > > However it's not very sympathic term. GDR had a legal status, > it's not like Taiwan which call itself Taiwan ROC (Republic Of China)... > > > They used a common (probably the most common) and correct term for > > this part of Germany. What's so strange with that? > > Maybe nothing strange for KW, but still very negative.... Yes indeed very negative and I find it's definetely a kind of statement. That's the reason why do I think it's strange for KW. Claudio ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 19:05:05 +0000 Subject: Sigh! Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" I wrote: > Ooops! It seems as if the most important line from my last mail > didn't appear in the digest. > It should have been: > > > "Zone" was a very bad term for the former GDR > > and has often been used by very nationalistic people My reply to this quote disappeared ONCE AGAIN!!! Now I give it up! I'm sorry for the last two attempts, there must be a spell on me... Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 19:38:19 MET Subject: Contact Really-From: "CHIRIATTI CLAUDIO" Does somebody on the list did have any contact to members of KW ? I hope you're honest enough to tell the truth. Bye Claudio ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 14:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: "Techno-Pop" Bootlegs? Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" >I'd like to know if anyone has it too. Does it even exist? I'm as in the dark as you are on whether or not copies exist anywhere, but I'd be highly doubtful concerning the possibility. Anyway, it doesn't bother me too much because the vast majority of 'Techno Pop' (slated for release back in the summer of 1983) was basically just a prototype of the album which eventually became known as 'Electric Cafe' with the addition of the song "Tour De France" instead of the song "Electric Cafe". Sure it would be interesting to hear the alternate versions of some of those songs like "The Telephone Call", "Sex Object", etc., but the idea of hearing the original 1983 'Technopop' album doesn't rouse me in the same fashion that hearing a brand new Kraftwerk release does. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Boing Boom Tschak...Techno Pop" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:24:41 -0500 Subject: Re: robot Really-From: pjschill@students.wisc.edu (Paul Schilling) >The line "ja tvoi sluga, ja tvoi robotnick" (sp?) from "The Robots" is in >what language? I remember Bussy's book saying that KW were amused by the >Russian word 'robotnick' meaning worker. Sounds like a pretty appropriate word for 'worker', if you ask me... Now that Bussy's book has come up numerous times (and I hope this is an appropriate question to post), I'd be interested to know what members of Kraftwerk actually thought of his book, whether they were in direct communication with him or not. Thanks, Paul "Ich bin der Musikant mit Taschenrechner in der Hand" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 96 14:45:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Contact Really-From: "Bruce M. Lloyd" >Does somebody on the list did have any contact to members of KW ? >I hope you're honest enough to tell the truth. >Bye Claudio I guess you're asking about trying to get in contact with the members of Kraftwerk. If so, you might want to try their record company... +- The above came from a day dream that Bruce's Power Macintosh had recently. bml at bgi dot on dot ca ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:12:27 -0400 Subject: Re: robot Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Supposedly Ralf and Florian hated the book and tried to stop it. I keep hearing about all these videos - where can I get some of them??? I will probably never see KW live and I've never even seen them move or anything. I'd like to. p.s. - just got a Linndrum via UPS about ten minutes ago. GOD it sounds good....... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:30:30 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Lyrics in Robots Really-From: datta@archive.uwp.edu Hi folks, had a few minutes this afternoon to drop in an read stuff... It seems robot lyrics are in discussion again. Not so long ago, there was a little bit about this: Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:03:40 -0500 Subject: RE: Re: Backwards Lyric in Robots The argument, the Russian sounding words are: Ja tvoi Sluga, Ja tvoi Rabotnik which means I'm Your Worker, I'm your Slave and played backwards, they sound like: NO ONE OWNS ME, NO ONE SELLS ME? The answer to all of the above is YES!! Intrigued, I sampled the track in and played it and, yes, it is indeed as Chris asserts. I created a file, robots.wav, an 8 second sample of the Russian quote from "The Robots" played forwards then played backwards. (It is a really low sampling rate and mono to keep the size down...) The file is up for ftp at ftp.uwp.edu in: /pub/music/artists/k/kraftwerk/misc/robots.wav The quickest way to get there is to log in as anonymous, and: get kraftwerk/misc/robots.wav robots.wav Don't forget to get the file as binary. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:13:49 +0100 Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #589 Really-From: lbo >least not half a year ago. But I am really curious how you guys think about >that. To what extent should we reveal information about Kraftwerk. Are there >any borders? well, I would really like to ring the bell on Ralf & Florian studio and say "hello, I'm a fan of K, wish to meet you", but I am not a feticist (though it took some years to arrive to this conclusion...). so, if someone don't publish his address, well, respect his privacy. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:13:51 +0100 Subject: Re: Kling-Klang Really-From: lbo > I had even once read somewhere that KlingKlang Studios does not even >*have* a letterbox or mail slot, let alone a telephone number or any other >means of contact. :o) An interesting concept indeed for people who have yes, and I remember to have read that an EMI spokesperson said that even them have no possibility to call K directly. the spokesperson said that they have to wait that K call them periodically... ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #590 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #591 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 6 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 591 Re: Aktivitaet 5 - 'Man Machine At Large' Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #589 Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #589 Re: robot Re: Robots Lyrics Server TV midi file!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:14:21 +0100 Subject: Re: Aktivitaet 5 - 'Man Machine At Large' Really-From: lbo >short promo trip to Italy the band also took part in press and radio >interviews and posed for press photos. Mention is also made of an >EMI records concert held at the Teatro Olimpico in Rome on the 4th >of December, but no more details are known of what Kraftwerk's >involvement, if any, was. well, I live in Roma, and i can tell you that there was no other performance in Roma of K but the one at Teatro Tenda during Computerwelt tour. they never performed at Teatro Olimpico. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 17 Aug 93 00:32:11 +0000 Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #589 Really-From: Brendan Heading >I didnt have the time lately to read all the Kraftwerk digests, but from the >above statement I concluded that the location of the Kling Klang studio was >revealed. If it is the correct street, would it be appropriate to mention it >on this discussion list? Do you guys think that it is correct to do that? I >know the location of the studio, but I didnt fancy to mention that on this >discussion list. Should I be blamed for that or what? By the way, there is >no such thing as Kling Klang Studio printed on teir door, that is stupid. At >least not half a year ago. But I am really curious how you guys think about >that. To what extent should we reveal information about Kraftwerk. Are there >any borders? Ah -ha! We have someone who is honest! It seems that the original poster is looking very silly! Basically someone posted a message in reply to a query saying that the studio was basically an ordinary house, with "Kling Klang studio" printed on the letterbox. This sounded wrong to me, so I argued it. You should reveal the studio's location only if you believe that it will not cause trouble for Kraftwerk themselves in any way. Can you tell us, though, how you came to hear about the location of the studio ? Anyway, it's up to your conscience whether you reveal the studio's location or not, you must decide for yourself. |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Giving money to governments is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" - -- Anonymous ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 16:36:50 -0500 Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #589 Really-From: pjschill@students.wisc.edu (Paul Schilling) >You should reveal the studio's location only if you believe that it will not >cause trouble for Kraftwerk themselves in any way. Can you tell us, though, >how you came to hear about the location of the studio ? > >Anyway, it's up to your conscience whether you reveal the studio's location or >not, you must decide for yourself. > I believe Klaus already cleared this up for us in an earlier post: >> >> I concluded that the location of the Kling Klang studio was >> revealed. If it is the correct street, would it be appropriate to mention it >> on this discussion list? Do you guys think that it is correct to do >> that? >Why not? The address can be found in a couple of address books. Also, I don't think you read his original post correctly in which he describes the building. Read before you post! Otherwise there's just more junk on this list. Paul ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 23:49:44 +0200 Subject: Re: robot Really-From: Michael Melzer At 11:27 5.6.96 -0400, you wrote: >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@cs.uwp.edu that >says: 'unsubscribe kraftwerk' and 'unsubscribe kraftwerk-digest' in the >message body. All messages sent to this list are automatically made available >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com > > >The line "ja tvoi sluga, ja tvoi robotnick" (sp?) from "The Robots" is in >what language? I remember Bussy's book saying that KW were amused by the >Russian word 'robotnick' meaning worker. > I think it is interesting that robotni (to work) is one of the few russian words which become a loanword in other languages. Michael "In Wien sitzen wir im Nachtcafe..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 17 Aug 93 00:24:54 +0000 Subject: Re: Robots Really-From: Brendan Heading >If so, they were wrong. Many people exploited in the western countries >looks more like robots than the people in Russia... Just to see the >system changing as well as the western one is static and... more >automatical in its imperfection. >Please don't take it bad, but I think not many people in "west" could >understand ex-USSR as it should be understood, to be able to criticise >it. Yes, Brian, we're all waiting for your post (Brian is God of the "Free World") Um, I'm in agreement with you totally here, I hate the way that the West try to tell us how crap Russia is, believe me, I'm not exactly a free-marketeer myself! I've a fair understanding of how Russia operated, and all the good and bad things about that operation. In fact, it is really very close indeed to the Western world system, where workers and labourers are told to work, be badly paid and not argue against it. |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Recursion : see Recursion" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:17:44 -0400 Subject: Lyrics Server Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com On AOL, it says that David Datta is involved with the lyrics server. Does this mean that he prints and finds out the lyrics for all the material? If so - there are a couple of Buggles songs that I believe are wrong.............. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:34:31 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: TV midi file!! Really-From: Lars Nellemann Hi Me and some of my friends have been working on a Midi file for the Elektric Music song TV. It is now finish, of course there's no TV samples attached to the midi-file, when we do it live - we made our own samples from Danish TV. The midi file contains no track for the singing, that's done live as well. The midi file is made for Sound canvas - and sounds a bit tacky when played on a soundblaster opl chip, but if anybody is interested I could mail it to you as an uudecoded file, or upload it to someones Homepage (Infobar???). Let me know if you're interested :-) Later Lars - -- ******************************************************************** * Lars Nellemann * I'm confused - Like a thirsty * * nelleman@biobase.dk * baby in a topless bar ! * * National Hospital of Denmark * ******************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #591 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #592 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 6 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 592 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 10:31:42 +0200 Subject: Re: Lyrics in Robots Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) > Ja tvoi Sluga, Ja tvoi Rabotnik it's russian for sure, but I would like to correct the proper meaning of the word 'Sluga' which means more likely 'servant', the word Slave is 'Rab' in russian ( same root as Rabotnik !!!) However the translation "i'm your slave, i'm your worker" is fairly good. BTW the word Robot was invented by a Czechian(?) SF writer, ( I believe his name was Karel Chapek , i'm not sure ) because of the word 'Rabota' which means, as well as in russian: 'Work' > and played backwards, they sound like: > > NO ONE OWNS ME, NO ONE SELLS ME? Oh! really? Yeah, the english is just an inverted russian... ;) Do svidaniya, Timour - -- ________________________________________________________________ /_ Timour JGENTI ________ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE __/\ \/ timour.jgenti@ifp.fr \__ DIMA, groupe Image ____________/\ \ \ /_ http://www.utbm.fr/les.personnes/lu.chen/timourpages/tim.html \/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 04:58:53 -0400 Subject: RE: Moog Cookbook Really-From: NDKent@aol.com Tom (Thistlethwaite) asks: Was Switched On Bach the first recreated music on synth? Surely someone else had the idea first as is often the way with great ideas but maybe I don't give Walter/Wendy Carlos enough credit. Musicians have been re-creating traditional music on synths since almost any date you choose as the birth of the synthesizer (Telharmonium, Thermin, RCA, Moog etc. you can debate depending on definition). The obvious reason for recording known tunes is that people can compare the electronic music with the traditional music the listeners can relate to. Also the creators can make a statement before anyone has the chance to say "that isn't a instrument". Here are the factors in "Switched on Bach's" importance. Carlos used a state of the art Moog. (Carlos contributed to the design of and everyone concedes that the Moog was a bonafide synthesizer.) Most importantly "Switched on Bach" was the massive hit which put synthesizer music in the mainstream and had performance of good enough quality that people like Glenn Gould praised it. It also spawned the genre of inferior synthesizer recreations of popular music. (IMHO Tomita and Carlos were the only people to master the genre consistantly.) Obviously if the music is good it transcends whatever genre, unfortunatly most of these records fall into the same category as the more encompassing genre of novelty records. In reply to Nthings-- I'm not saying Moog Cookbook is bad as music, it's rather amusing. I'm saying its "bad" in an ironic sense describing the cheesyness of the sounds and caries on the tradition, ironically this time, of taking a popular style of music (alt rock) and making a synth cover album of it. In the past the irony wan't intentional, though some albums of 20+ years ago like "The Electric Cow Goes Moog" don't exactly say seriousness. Why my interst was piqued, when it comes to electronic music this is sort of the opposite of KW. Another way of putting my original coment on Moog Cookbook, the Rentals, bands who use too much vibrato and portamento, etc. is that here we have people making IMHO dated sounds for ironic effect. (Not the golden age of analog sound whenever that was. I kind of remember some albums had good sounds, some stank, just like today.) While as usual I say this can be amusing, I'm sure most of us know of and have our favorite electronic musicians (like 70s KW) that did "good" music in that era which still hold up great today. I agree with what Tom said. Finally I said: >It is the oppisite of of what Kraftwerk suceeded in the past by doing. That >is being the vanguard and exploring *new* >directions for electronics in pop >music. Tom says: The interesting and alluring question is how the hell are they going to do it now? The Mix had a slightly derivative element to it (whether good or bad) and with such ground breaking music like drum and bass around today, how are they going to continue to fufil this role? I hope he is being ironic with the drum and bass comment. Now late 70s KW drums, that's groundbreaking. They did it before, I hope they can do it again. nicholas d. kent ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 10:37:06 EDT Subject: EDGECULTUREBABBLE re Tom Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle >Really-From: Thistlethwaite <100341.2320@CompuServe.COM> >The interesting and alluring question is how the hell are they going to do it >now? The Mix had a slightly derivative element to it (whether good or bad) and >with such ground breaking music like drum and bass around today, how are they >going to continue to fufil this role? Tom, A reply from the other Nick (who sadly never got to play in the Sex Pistols): I remember I raised this notion of 'will Kraftwerk have kept an eye on the ever-evolving rhythms of pop music'- with drum and bass being a good example of how something so innovative and exciting can make older ideas seem outmoded and irrelevant. But I wonder is it still a reasonable idea to say that "today's cutting-edge is I think of this more in terms of there being something like a system of roots where there are numerous 'cutting-edge' developments: standard ideas are added to or refined, new offshoots sprout from standard ideas- until it begins to make no sense to talk of "the cutting-edge" in such broad language. Drum and bass is surely an offshoot of an offshoot of an offshoot (continue until you get to the offshoot marked 'kraftwerk'), and would seem to be quite a healthy new root (to continue with this ridiculous plant analogy!),growing in its own direction and sure to sprout more offshoots....What I'm trying to say is that Kraftwerk have explored a certain territory, and if they still have the enthusiasm of old, I see no reason why this shouldn't continue. The area they are working in will not necessarily be the same one as that of our example of drum and bass, but there is no reason to think that the direction Kraftwerk are going in cannot still yield new and even surprising discoveries. To sum up this particularly garbled message: pop music is naturally much more diverse in 1996 than it was in 1974 or whenever- and so there are many more ways now of innovating, because there are now so many musics to draw on and develop, to use as reference points. Whilst in 1996 drum and bass is seen as 'cutting-edge', well, for example, so are those of the transgender-pierced-Minty persuasion, and those involved in generative music. In this rich mess of culture, there is still a place for people like Kraftwerk to innovate and influence. Sorry this babble is so long! If anyone is interested, Eno's lovely swollen appendix marked 'EDGE CULTURE' is a better read! (it appears in his new book- 'A Year with Swollen Appendices'). Nick ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:27:55 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: ja tvoi sluga, ja tvoi rabotnik Really-From: AstroBoy Hello, There seems to be a discussion going on on the Russian lyrics in the Robots. Well, the word robot was invented by a Chzech writer who was working on an SF play, IIRC. It means worker. Apparently the Russian language uses a similar word, are you people sure it's Russian and not Czech? And i don' think the song is about the Russian situation at the time at all, but about the general situation of the human civilized world at the time. How everyone was turning into a robot, working in that big factory called Society. Producing what? That's the question... - --- Toon Van de Putte (Dutch), aka AstroBoy vdputte@innet.be Hertstraat 24 B-2590 Berlaar Belgium EU Surreality Foundation: http://www.club.innet.be/~year0357 "That's what so stupid about the whole magic thing, you know. You spend twenty years learning the spell that makes nude virgins appear in your bedroom, and then you're so poisoned by quicksilver fumes and half-blind from reading old grimoires that you can't remember what happens next." Terry Pratchett ***If you do not recieve this message, please email me immediately*** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:27:51 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: New Really-From: AstroBoy Hi, I'm new on the list. Let me introduce myself: I'm 17/m, i live in Belgium and i'm currently in the last term of High School (i'm in my finals right now) I'm into tekno and electronic music in general. I'm quite a KraftWerk-fan, i'm a much bigger Bj=F6rk-fan though,= and if anyone knows a mailing list on that fabolous Icelandic woman, please let me know. Other artists i also particularly like are Orbital, Underworld, EBTG, System Seven, The Prodigy, Ken Ishii,... Addresses of mailing lists/urls on them are also welcome.=20 If you happen to visit the Undernet from time to time, you can find me there under the nick 'AstroBoy'. My further hobbies include: SF writing, poetry, drawing, ufology and everything that's generally weird. I hope i'll enjoy this mailing list, greetings. - --- Toon Van de Putte (Dutch), aka AstroBoy vdputte@innet.be Hertstraat 24 B-2590 Berlaar Belgium EU Surreality Foundation: http://www.club.innet.be/~year0357 "That's what so stupid about the whole magic thing, you know. You spend twenty years learning the spell that makes nude virgins appear in your bedroom, and then you're so poisoned by quicksilver fumes and half-blind from reading old grimoires that you can't remember what happens next." Terry Pratchett ***If you do not recieve this message, please email me immediately*** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 12:02:01 +0200 Subject: Re: ja tvoi sluga, ja tvoi rabotnik Really-From: Paulo Mouat > There seems to be a discussion going on on the Russian lyrics in the > Robots. Well, the word robot was invented by a Chzech writer who was > working on an SF play, IIRC. It means worker. Apparently the Russian > language uses a similar word, are you people sure it's Russian and not > Czech? It is russian indeed. You can see the cyrillic text in the video as well as in the album sleeve. I once even checken a russian dictionary and found out the meaning, which has already been discussed. Cheers! - -- __|__ ___\_/___ \\\\\\ ___ Paulo Mouat, \\))))_ |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt ((((<_> |___| \\\\ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:42:16 +0200 Subject: Re: ja tvoi sluga, ja tvoi rabotnik Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) > There seems to be a discussion going on on the Russian lyrics in the Robots. > Well, the word robot was invented by a Chzech writer who was working on an > SF play, IIRC. It means worker. Apparently the Russian language uses a > similar word, are you people sure it's Russian and not Czech? That's I've said, and I'm SURE the words are Russian. Of course, Czech language, like Serb, Croate, Bulgar, Pollish, Russian etc. are from the same family of Slavian (? dunno exact english term) languages. So many basic words are very similar. The verb 'to work' is a very basic word in any laguage so there's no surprise... <> R TBOu C/\y2A, R TBOu PA6OTHuK ... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 08:00:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Lyrics in Robots Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" > Ja tvoi Sluga, Ja tvoi Rabotnik which means I'm Your Worker, I'm your >Slave and played backwards, they sound like: NO ONE OWNS ME, NO ONE SELLS ME. >Intrigued, I sampled the track in and played it and, yes, it is indeed as >Chris asserts. Having had a little history of my own with examining music for backwards tape masking, I too put the "Ja Tvoi Sluga..." quote in reverse quite some time ago and was able to make out what sort of sounds like "Nobody owns me, no one sells me." While I feel that this is clearly a coincidence and requires a slight stretch of the imagination to hear clearly, it's still pretty neat-o. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "And at the fall of night..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 09:10:00 PDT Subject: Kraftwerk live videos wanted Really-From: Steinar Jorgensen Will trade rather than pay... Want old livevideos, with reasonable quality.... Please email me at steinar@msw.no -----={ J ranietS }=----- 59?55'42N 010?44'39E Live long and prosper! The following binary file has been uuencoded to ensure successful transmission. Use UUDECODE to extract. begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C8'`0:0"``$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y`0```````#H``$(@`<` M&````$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V`!``"`````0`!``$$ M@`$`'0```$MR869T=V5R:R!L:79E('9I9&5O``(P`0````4```!3 M3510`````!X``S`!````%0```&MR869T=V5R:T!C`0``6@$``$H" M``!,6D9U2,WEPO\`"@$/`A4"I`/D!>L"@P!0$P-4`@!C:`K`\6\_Y]"H`(SPG9`H`* M@0VQ"V#@;F`=L&5A1V@<74'0"$@'J(>W5!W(>`A@!V@90#``Q$'@"!C'=`>['-T90N`"L!` MXFT#X"YN;PJ/"Y$7`#T``0````$``````````P`- '-/TW``""L&CN ` end ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 08:34:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Lyrics in Robots Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" >BTW the word Robot was invented by a Czechian(?) SF writer, >( I believe his name was Karel Chapek , i'm not sure ) because >of the word 'Rabota' which means, as well as in russian: 'Work' This is correct. The word "robot" was originally introduced in a play by the Czechoslovakian writer, playright, and theatrical producer Karel Capek (1890-1938). Capek's most famous play that brought this word into usage was called "R.U.R." (1921; trans. 1923), the letters of which stand for 'Rossum's Universal Robots'. The original word for "robot" in Czech is "robota". Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "We are programmed just to do..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 10:31:07 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Kraftwerk live videos wanted Really-From: "Lazlo Nibble" > The following binary file has been uuencoded to ensure successful > transmission. Use UUDECODE to extract. > > begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT > M>)\^(C8'`0:0"``$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y`0```````#H``$(@`<` > M&````$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V`!``"`````0`!``$$ [...] Please do not post encoded binaries of ANY format to the Kraftwerk mailing list. - -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 14:04:11 -0400 Subject: Tour De France Really-From: MoogBoy@aol.com I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, but I may soon be acquiring DJ's Best on CD. I met someone who says they have it. I'll keep everyone posted. Steve ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 14:24:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Moog Cookbook Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com Any of you guys ever hear Tonto's Expanding Head Band and their album, "Zero Time?" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 11:39:07 -0700 Subject: Sluga/Rabotnik Really-From: Luther Welsh At the private request of several people, I privately requested clarifications from a net.friend, Iouri. Here's what he said (privately): >> On a music list I read, people say that Russian sounding words: >> Ja tvoi Sluga, Ja tvoi Rabotnik >> mean: >> I'm Your Worker, I'm your Slave >> >> Is that a good translation? Is "Sluga" a worker who is paid a wage, >> like employee in a shoe factory? Or more like a peasant, working the >> land for a rich man and making no money? > >"Rabotnik" almost exactly means a worker (Usually a worker called >"Rabochij"; I have a little difficulty to define a difference. More >close, "Rabotnik" is a household worker). The man as you described called >in-Russian "Batrak". "Sluga" is a peasant inside a house. He may or may >not make money, though. "Slave" called exactly "Rab" that assumed he never >makes money and works involunatary. Sounds like Iouri is saying that "Rabotnik" is a salaried servant such as a butler, and a "Sluga" is a kind of serf. If "servant" is the best translation, then it is interesting that KW also refered to "servant" ("Diener") in The Voice of Energy (see my .sig) Perhaps further clarification is in order? I have a Ukrainian friend I could ask, but she is presently travelling. Please don't clutter up this list (respect bandwidth!) -- let me know in private email and if enough of you privately request, then I will privately ask her in private, and perhaps privately post to soc.culture.russian or k12.lang.russian (privately). Of course even if *nobody* writes me in private (except to flame me), I will still claim that several people have privately expressed an interest and I will publically post what I privately concocted^H^H^H^H^Hdiscovered regardless, thus proving (but only to myself) once again that I am a **Clever Fellow**. +--------------------+ .-. .- -.. .. --- .- -.-. - .. ...- .. - -.-- + | Luke Welsh | "Ich bin Ihr Diener und Ihr Herr zugleich" | | luke@scruznet.com | <"I am both your servant and your master"> | | www.ndatech.com | Kraftwerk, The Voice Of Energy | +--------------------+... --- ... ... --- ... ... --- ... ... --- ...+ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 22:55:23 +0100 Subject: Re: Lyrics in Robots Really-From: lbo > Ja tvoi Sluga, Ja tvoi Rabotnik >and played backwards, they sound like: > NO ONE OWNS ME, NO ONE SELLS ME? yes, but in which language? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 19:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Lyrics in Robots Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" >> Ja tvoi Sluga, Ja tvoi Rabotnik > >>and played backwards, they sound like: >> NO ONE OWNS ME, NO ONE SELLS ME? > >yes, but in which language? A fair enough question to ask for those who have not yet tried playing this backwards. :o) The Russian words "Ja tvoi sluga, ja tvoi rabotnik" played backwards sound something like "Nobody owns me, no one sells me" in English. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "The young man stepped into the hall of mirrors..." ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #592 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #593 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Friday, 7 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 593 Vocoder Demo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 05:05:24 +0200 Subject: Vocoder Demo Really-From: majortom@muc.de (Michael Wesemann) For those who did not quite understand how a vocoder works I put up some small examples which can perhaps help illustrate what a vocoder does. My voice is the speech signal and the carriers are some well know KW tunes. Enjoy!: http://www.muc.de/~majortom/vocoder.htm ________ michael __________________________________________________ http://www.muc.de/~majortom/analogue/amusic.htm ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #593 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #594 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Saturday, 8 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 594 Re: Sluga/Rabotnik Re: Sluga/Rabotnik Re: Sluga/Rabotnik Re: Newbie Re: Kling-Klang Re: New A European dream Re: Guten Abend Re: Sluga/Rabotnik Electric Gaze ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:24:13 +0200 Subject: Re: Sluga/Rabotnik Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) Hi Luke, > >"Rabotnik" almost exactly means a worker (Usually a worker called > >"Rabochij"; I have a little difficulty to define a difference. More > >close, "Rabotnik" is a household worker). The man as you described called > >in-Russian "Batrak". "Sluga" is a peasant inside a house. He may or may > >not make money, though. "Slave" called exactly "Rab" that assumed he never > >makes money and works involunatary. That's exact, and you don't have to go all over the world to get confirmation. Russian is my native language even if I'm .fr so I can tell you that all explained above is correct, it's rather the same as I descrobed in one of my previous post... BTW, I sampled myself saying "ya tvoy sluga....", and inverting that really heard something like "no one owns me, no one sells me" even if "sells" sounded more as: "sends"... So I spoke like it's done in KW robots, however in reality "Sluga" have an accent on the LAST 'A' and not on the middle 'U' yours truly, Timour - -- ________________________________________________________________ /_ Timour JGENTI ________ INSTITUT FRANCAIS DU PETROLE __/\ \/ timour.jgenti@ifp.fr \__ DIMA, groupe Image ____________/\ \ \ /_ http://www.utbm.fr/les.personnes/lu.chen/timourpages/tim.html \/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 09:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Sluga/Rabotnik Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" >BTW, I sampled myself saying "ya tvoy sluga....", and inverting that >really heard something like "no one owns me, no one sells me" even Just to be sure, I threw 'The Mix' into the CD Rom drive again this morning, sampled the waveform for "ja tvoi sluga, ja tvoi rabotnik", and put it in reverse. As on the previous occasions when I've done this, I heard the backwards words come out as "nobody owns me, no one sells me". I've also done this with the version of "The Robots" from 'The Man-Machine' album as well. So far everyone else who's posted about this topic has given the backwards selection as "no one owns me, no one sells me", but to me it still sounds like the first half says "NOBODY owns me" rather than "NO ONE owns me". Anyone else agree? Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "We're functioning automatic..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:06:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Sluga/Rabotnik Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Scott: I did the same thing you did with the CD-ROM and the Man-Machine version and it is most certainly NOBODY owns me. :-) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:59:30 +0100 Subject: Re: Newbie Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@cs.uwp.edu that >says: 'unsubscribe kraftwerk' and 'unsubscribe kraftwerk-digest' in the >message body. All messages sent to this list are automatically made available >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com > > >Hey Brian: A fan should check it all out and decide for himself. I find it >hilarious that you don't understand Electric Cafe yet. Don't you get it? > The joke is that it's utter rubbish, yet it was marketed as a ground breaking album! Of course I get it....but it aint funny. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:11:04 +0100 Subject: Re: Kling-Klang Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) > >>Hello to everybody on the Kraftwerk-list. I'm a new subscriber of >>this list and my name is Claudio Giovanni Chiriatti. >>Well, I do send this mail because I want to know >>something about the mysterious Kling-Klang studio. >>Who of the subscribers can give me informations about this subject ? > >Greetings, Claudio. Um, the question you ask is very hard to answer, >Kraftwerk's current members do not like to disclose the location or the nature >of their studio, they believe that it is important to the secrecy and privacy >of their work. > >There was someone on the list a while ago who said that he'd seen the >Klingklang studio, but then on this list we tend to get lots of rumours :) > Many people post rumours to this list with the sole intention of deceiving others. I for one do NOT find this funny. You have been warned, do NOT believe everything you read*. Brian * except if I posted it ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:34:38 +0100 Subject: Re: New Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >I'm new on the list. Let me introduce myself: >I'm 17/m, i live in Belgium and i'm currently in the last term of High >School (i'm in my finals right now) I'm into tekno and electronic music in >general. I'm quite a KraftWerk-fan, i'm a much bigger Bj=F6rk-fan though,= and Astroboy, I once said that Kraftwerk weren't my favourite band. The folks on this list took it rather badly and threatened my existence on this list. Watch out! >I hope i'll enjoy this mailing list, greetings. You will.....If you've got a sense of humour and don't mind childish abuse being hurled in your direction when you don't toe the line ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:44:29 +0100 Subject: A European dream Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) All these Italians springing up on this list.......good luck for the European Championships. I'll be supporting you. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:48:35 +0100 Subject: Re: Guten Abend Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >As KW collectors items (live recordings, 12"es) are quite difficult to find >in Austria (I bought most of my stuff in NY and London) I would be glad for >recommandation of interting record stores especially in Germany, London and NY. >You can mail me directly h8551159@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at. Some guy from the US else also asked for addresses of record stores in London which sell Kraftwerk bootlegs. Unfortunately, it is market stalls which just set-up for the day at Camden and Portobello Rd markets. Therefore, they don't have addresses. Additionally the characters who run them often aren't the most savoury of people. So whilst no specific addresses are possible, Camden and Portobello Rd markets are musts for Kraftwerk fans visiting the UK. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 19:58:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Sluga/Rabotnik Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" >Scott: I did the same thing you did with the CD-ROM and the Man-Machine >version and it is most certainly NOBODY owns me. :-) Thanks for the confirmation. :o) Now at least I know that if I am indeed going nuts, it's not due to the "nobody owns me" dilemma. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Nobody owns me, no one sells me." ;o) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 00:52:49 -0400 Subject: Electric Gaze Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com EC is actually not utter rubbish. If you listen carefully, there are MANY nuances that are hidden in the sound. Also - it goes along with the KW time line - that of starting off just as industry did and growing just as industry has: rough and scratchy to sleak and streamlined. ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #594 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #595 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Sunday, 9 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 595 Re: Electric Gaze Re: Lasers (Off topic? No...) Kraftwerk Live ??? Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #589 Re: New Re: Kraftwerk Live ??? Re: Electric Gaze Re: New Michael Rother Re: New Re: Electric Gaze Re: Electric Gaze ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:36:50 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Re: Electric Gaze Really-From: AstroBoy At 00:52 8/06/96 -0400, you wrote: >EC is actually not utter rubbish. If you listen carefully, there are MANY >nuances that are hidden in the sound. Also - it goes along with the KW time >line - that of starting off just as industry did and growing just as industry >has: rough and scratchy to sleak and streamlined. But i *like* rough and scratchy. I like the honesty of synthetic sound sounding synthetic. It reminds me of my old C64 :) - --- Toon Van de Putte (Dutch), aka AstroBoy vdputte@innet.be Hertstraat 24 B-2590 Berlaar Belgium EU Surreality Foundation: http://www.club.innet.be/~year0357 "Keep your friends very close, but keep your enemies closer" Deep Throat ***If you do not recieve this message, please email me immediately*** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 07 Jun 96 23:40:31 +0000 Subject: Re: Lasers (Off topic? No...) Really-From: Brendan Heading >Something like that, yes. >> Which type of lasers do Jarre use with The Laser Arp? >Type 2 I would think, the higest power so they can be seen / reflected a >long way. A laser that is strong enough to cause cancer or burn things has to be very powerful indeed. I have a feeling that Jarre uses a potentially dangerous laser, and hence the reason for the glasses and the gloves. Of course, you will also notice that no one stands near the 'arp when it is being played, so eye problems don't happen easily. >> And why he usually >> wear gloves and sunglasses playing it? >Either because they look nice, or repeated contact with Type 2 lasers can >cause cancer ? Well, repeated contact with any laser, even the sad one in your CD player, can cause cancer, and if you put your eye close enough to it (ie a few mm) you'd wreck your eye. I think the gloves/glasses are indeed an extra precaution. |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Giving money to governments is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" - -- Anonymous ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 07 Jun 96 23:53:11 +0000 Subject: Kraftwerk Live ??? Really-From: Brendan Heading A friend of mine told me recently that he had seen a CD of Kraftwerk's in a local small music shop, named "Kraftwerk Live". I was immediately suspicious, and I now know that there is no such album in offical print in the UK. It was almost certainly a KW tape, my friend even told me : "There's a track on it called Autobahn" and he doesn't have a clue about KW, so I believe he has really seen it. So - is it a boot ? Or was it released somewhere else ? |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Musak is the shit you hear in elevators and supermarkets". -- Jean Michel Jarre ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 06 Jun 96 19:05:23 +0000 Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #589 Really-From: Brendan Heading >>Why not? The address can be found in a couple of address books. >Also, I don't think you read his original post correctly in which he >describes the building. >Read before you post! Otherwise there's just more junk on this list. Er, right. I posted the reply in question before Klaus had made his point about the address books, so sorry. |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Giving money to governments is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" - -- Anonymous ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 08 Jun 96 14:21:41 +0000 Subject: Re: New Really-From: Brendan Heading >>I hope i'll enjoy this mailing list, greetings. >You will.....If you've got a sense of humour and don't mind childish abuse >being hurled in your direction when you don't toe the line Or if you like people making up rumours that are blatantly untrue and then telling people in private to back them up on it, or condemning the communist state in the former USSR when someone from Russia speaks politely just so that everyone can see what a right wing conservative you are; or even telling us how wonderful the British economy is for no apparent reason, and when they've had to knock a quarter percent off interest to get it moving again. Some people on this are highly hypocritical and full of irrelevant shit. You'll know how to sift it :) |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "I didn't want to make music any longer. I didn't want to be a robot. I didn't want to make concerts, even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years" --- Wolfgang Fleur, on leaving Kraftwerk in 1987. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 08 Jun 1996 13:27:06 GMT Subject: Re: Kraftwerk Live ??? Really-From: martin.rundqvist@sting.dextel.se (Martin Rundqvist) Hey.. Of course it's a boot.. Otherwise the world should have known! //Robot Pentium 150Mhz / 16Mb RAM / 1048Mb HD ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 10:30:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Electric Gaze Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Astro: I like rough and scratchy too. I find the entire gamut of KW to be extremely pleasing to listen to - from Tone Float all the way to The Mix. I am partial to early stuff but that does not mean that the later stuff isn't also enjoyable. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:40:18 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Re: New Really-From: AstroBoy At 14:21 8/06/96 +0000, Brendan Heading wrote: >Or if you like people making up rumours that are blatantly untrue and then >telling people in private to back them up on it, or condemning the communist >state in the former USSR when someone from Russia speaks politely just so >that everyone can see what a right wing conservative you are; or even telling >us how wonderful the British economy is for no apparent reason, and when >they've had to knock a quarter percent off interest to get it moving again. Since when is it moving again? :) I know what you're talking about, i've had my share of flaming on other mailing lists because i said the US wasn't better than the USSR, but that propagande wants us to believe that. I've learned one thing: never, EVER believe anything unless you've checked it out yourself or have a reliable, trustworthy source. - --- Toon Van de Putte (Dutch), aka AstroBoy vdputte@innet.be Hertstraat 24 B-2590 Berlaar Belgium EU Surreality Foundation: http://www.club.innet.be/~year0357 "Keep your friends very close, but keep your enemies closer" Deep Throat ***If you do not recieve this message, please email me immediately*** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 21:35:28 +0200 (MST) Subject: Michael Rother Really-From: Thomas Weckert When I was in Berlin at the end of May, there was a one hour feature of Michael Rother on FAB (Fernsehen aus Berlin), did anybody record this? Id really like to have it!!!! Thomas ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 08 Jun 96 20:01:43 +0000 Subject: Re: New Really-From: Brendan Heading >>again. >Since when is it moving again? :) Let's have no more postings on this, we'll take it to private mail. Brian Gaze thinks that it will "Shake the foundations of the world". Sheer pompousness. He still thinks we're back 500 years ago in the reign of the British empire. |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "I didn't want to make music any longer. I didn't want to be a robot. I didn't want to make concerts, even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years" --- Wolfgang Fleur, on leaving Kraftwerk in 1987. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 20:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Electric Gaze Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" >Astro: I like rough and scratchy too. I find the entire gamut of KW to be >extremely pleasing to listen to - from Tone Float all the way to The Mix. I >am partial to early stuff but that does not mean that the later stuff isn't >also enjoyable. Hear Hear. I also consider the entire "gamut" of Kraftwerk to be most palatable. In my opinion there isn't one Kraftwerk album that I could say is not worthy of the Kraftwerk namesake. They are all classics in my mind, and I would have one rather difficult task on my hands if I were to attempt to prioritize them. I agree that the earlier material was rougher and scratchier when compared to the smoothness of the most recent material, but I think this is all a logical part of Kraftwerk's wonderful evolution. Every album's sound seems to fit perfectly into place like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. Yet another reason why I'm dying to hear new material from my favorite band already! Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "I am adding and subtracting..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:49:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Electric Gaze Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com I agree that the Kraftwerk evolution is jigsaw puzzle-like - it follows the evolution of industry like I said -- it goes from the electronic dominated noisiness of the early albums (like early factories) to the mechanical mentality of the later 70's etc. (like automated industry in the 60's/70's etc...) to the ultra streamlined music of the mid 80's/90's (like the sheen computer-controlled industry of now.) Hey Scott: Like you said - I really love these guys' style :-) ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #595 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #596 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Monday, 10 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 596 RE: kraftwerk-digest V2 #587 RE: kraftwerk-digest V2 #587 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 96 12:51 +0100 Subject: RE: kraftwerk-digest V2 #587 Really-From: Frank.Huebenthal@t-online.de (Frank.Huebenthal) In digest #587 lbo wrote: >I see some common pattern here... let me tell you my story. >I'll take a nuclear techician degree, that was what >really happened some years later. Oh, I nearly recognize myself in that ! In MY further life, I became a technician for electronics and was working for a company which produces industrial electronics (automatic wheighing machines, no robots :) ). Now, I ask myself if many KW fans do have technical jobs (or technical interests) and if perhaps a little bit of technical fascination is necessary to like this kind of music. *** In the last time there was a discussion about the usage of the word ZONE. Let me tell it from the German view. After WW2 and until the late 80's, "Zone" was surely a *bad* word for the GDR. It was used by someone to express his antipathy against the GDR and against the dividing of Germany. After the reunion of the both german parts, the word changed its meaning. It has now got a slight lovely touch. But now I think we should not go too far away from the subject of this mailing list: Kraftwerk. =================================================== ==< Frank Huebenthal from Braunschweig, Germany >== ==< Frank.Huebenthal@t-online.de >== =================================================== ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:37:01 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: RE: kraftwerk-digest V2 #587 Really-From: AstroBoy At 12:51 9/06/96 +0100, Frank Huebenthal wrote: >Oh, I nearly recognize myself in that ! In MY further life, I became a >technician for electronics and was working for a company which produces >industrial electronics (automatic wheighing machines, no robots :) ). >Now, I ask myself if many KW fans do have technical jobs (or technical >interests) and if perhaps a little bit of technical fascination is necessary >to like this kind of music. Well, i think you have to open towards technology. I don't think there are any back-to-nature fanatics among the KW fans. But i endorse the Bauhaus philosophy: technology must serve mankind, not the other way round. From that philosophy, technology don't have to be bad. But technology isn't everything either. The machines are our workers, our slaves and we are the operators (with our pocket calcualtors) - --- Toon Van de Putte (Dutch), aka AstroBoy vdputte@innet.be Hertstraat 24 B-2590 Berlaar Belgium EU Surreality Foundation: http://www.club.innet.be/~year0357 "Keep your friends very close, but keep your enemies closer" Deep Throat ***If you do not recieve this message, please email me immediately*** ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #596 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #597 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 11 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 597 Re: EDGECULTUREBABBLE Re: Moogcookbooks thru to drum and bass Cluster? Re: EDGECULTUREBABBLE RE: Cluster? Re: RE: Cluster? YMO Re: Politics Re: The ambiguity of playing with historical imagery Re: Lyrics in Robots Re: Lyrics in Robots Re: Politics Re: Lyrics in Robots ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 10 Jun 96 04:17:24 EDT Subject: Re: EDGECULTUREBABBLE Really-From: Thistlethwaite <100341.2320@CompuServe.COM> Nick, >But I wonder is it still a reasonable idea to say that >"today's cutting-edge is Tantalizing. What were you going to say. It seems the message got cut off. I agree with your comment about roots in music. Influences, scenes, 'cutting-edge' developments, and the like are all branches. From time to time I see charts trying to show the patterns of musical development in magazines, books etc. It seems an almost impossible task. >In this rich mess of culture, there is still a place for >people like Kraftwerk to innovate and influence. Was never a truer word spoken. Individuality, innovation, and inspiration... Later on, Tom ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 10 Jun 96 04:17:26 EDT Subject: Re: Moogcookbooks thru to drum and bass Really-From: Thistlethwaite <100341.2320@CompuServe.COM> Nick Kent, I'll admit right now that I think that drum and bass is innovative, no irony intended. While it may not be wholly innovative in the components that make it up, the final product is something new and exciting in my view. However, of late I have noticed that the same old cliches are cropping up. Tell me what you dislike about it and I'll try and argue my point of view. As far as KW drums are concerned, I'll commit sacrilege here and make some criticism. Neither the sounds or the patterns strike me as particularly groundbreaking. In their descriptions of making the 'knitting needle' drums, they describe taking apart an old rhythm box, drum machines and synth drums were new but not groundbreaking. As far as the actual playing/programming is concerned nothing particularly adventurous is attempted. However, they have a very definite charm and from time to time they show true originality. Where should I start with YMO having never heard any? Later on, Tom ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 09:43:05 EDT Subject: Cluster? Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle Not strictly Kraftwerk related I know, but can anyone tell me if the Kluster/Cluster reissue CDs have been released? I heard they were supposed to have come out earlier this year, but so far no record shop I've visited has them. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 10:05:16 EDT Subject: Re: EDGECULTUREBABBLE Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle Tom, Blimey- now MY words are being devoured too What I was trying to say was: >But I wonder is it still a reasonable idea to say that "today's >cutting-edge is......[insert latest popular innovation]" - -hinting that it is no longer applicable to judge whatever art relative to one line of assumed cutting-edge greatness- instead, one can assume there are lots of lines crisscrossing and creating a scribbly mess (or something). Bye! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 8:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: Cluster? Really-From: MCINTYRE@pa.msu.edu >Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle >Not strictly Kraftwerk related I know, but can anyone tell me if the >Kluster/Cluster reissue CDs have been released? I heard they were >supposed to have come out earlier this year, but so far no record >shop I've visited has them. My local none too bright chain store (they were unable to order Hawkwind CDs from Griffin Records even when I gave them the catalog numbers) are stocking Kluster's _Zopf..._ (err, it's at home and I'm blanking on the spelling), all the permutations of the Cluster & Eno albums, and four Moebius titles, plus a couple of Cluster albums, so they are out there. If Wherehouse can get them, anybody should be able to. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept Michigan State University mcintyre@pa.msu.edu ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:57:38 -0400 Subject: Re: RE: Cluster? Really-From: Curryous@aol.com Please check out our web site which should answer all your questions regarding all Cluster releases as well as their upcoming U.S. tour http://www.rcww.com/curious/ Russ Curry Curious Music ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:11:46 -0400 Subject: YMO Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Tom: get "Solid Sate Survivor" - I believe it is the first. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:57:52 +0000 Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" Two more observations: 1. Two of the most popular *positive* symbols from the Nazi era are the Autobahn and the Volksempfaenger - the cover motives of two successive Kraftwerk LP's. 2. In 1981 they intended to play only one concert in the GDR. Not in one of the large cities like East-Berlin, Leipzip or Dresden, as it would have been a normal choice, but in the small Chemnitz (aka Karl-Marx-Stadt!). Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:57:15 +0000 Subject: Re: The ambiguity of playing with historical imagery Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" > IMO the 'Man Machine' cover is close to the style of poster its > intended to evoke, but not close enough - the band should really have been > illustrated in a more heroic/optimistic pose, rather than photographed looking > rather pre-occupied to their left... The original style of poster > deliberately showed the subjects in an enhanced manner - the KW sleeve just > has our four familiar subjects looking like ... Kraftwerk! I think the "Man Machine" cover is mainly a parody of the "Bauhaus-Treppe" painting, and the people on this painting really don't show heroic poses. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:59:22 +0000 Subject: Re: Lyrics in Robots Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" > > BTW the word Robot was invented by a Czechian(?) SF writer, > > This is correct. No, it isn't. > The word "robot" was originally introduced in a > play by the Czechoslovakian writer, playright, and theatrical > producer Karel Capek (1890-1938). You probably mean that he was the first who used it in the Man/Machine context? I've recently noticed the word in a German text (a Silesian code, AFAIR) from the early 19th century. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Lyrics in Robots Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" >> The word "robot" was originally introduced in a >> play by the Czechoslovakian writer, playright, and theatrical >> producer Karel Capek (1890-1938). >You probably mean that he was the first who used it in the >Man/Machine context? >I've recently noticed the word in a German text (a Silesian code, >AFAIR) from the early 19th century. I meant that Capek was the first to use the word in the format that would go on to become familiar as "robot" as English. Previously, the word "robot" did not exist in the English language as we know it today. According to The American Heritage dictionary, the word "robot" is a derivitive which comes from 3 main sources: 1) the Czech word "robota", meaning "compulsory labor" or "drudgery" 2) the Old Church Slavonic word "rabota", meaning "servitude" 3) "rabu", meaning "slave" Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "We are programmed just to do..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 07:41:36 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: AstroBoy At 18:57 10/06/96 +0000, Klaus Zaepke wrote: >1. Two of the most popular *positive* symbols from the Nazi era are >the Autobahn and the Volksempfaenger - the cover motives of two >successive Kraftwerk LP's. That doesn't mean they're nazis, does it? >2. In 1981 they intended to play only one concert in the GDR. Not in >one of the large cities like East-Berlin, Leipzip or Dresden, as it would >have been a normal choice, but in the small Chemnitz (aka Karl-Marx-Stadt!). What's Karl Marx got to do with nazism? - --- Toon "AstroBoy" Van de Putte (Dutch), Berlaar, Belgium EU Surreality Foundation: http://www.club.innet.be/~year0357 "The law is an anagram of wealth" Anne Clark ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 07:41:32 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Re: Lyrics in Robots Really-From: AstroBoy At 18:59 10/06/96 +0000, Klaus Zaepke wrote: >You probably mean that he was the first who used it in the >Man/Machine context? >I've recently noticed the word in a German text (a Silesian code, >AFAIR) from the early 19th century. Well, robot is a Chzech verb, so i guess people have used it for quite some time. But not in the modern meaning of the word. - --- Toon "AstroBoy" Van de Putte (Dutch), Berlaar, Belgium EU Surreality Foundation: http://www.club.innet.be/~year0357 "The law is an anagram of wealth" Anne Clark ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #597 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #598 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 12 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 598 Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #589 DJ's Best tour de france cd... mistery solved Re: Politics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 09:01:30 +0200 (MST) Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #589 Really-From: Thomas Weckert > >I didnt have the time lately to read all the Kraftwerk digests, but from the > >above statement I concluded that the location of the Kling Klang studio was > >revealed. If it is the correct street, would it be appropriate to mention it > >on this discussion list? Do you guys think that it is correct to do that? I > >know the location of the studio, but I didnt fancy to mention that on this > >discussion list. Should I be blamed for that or what? By the way, there is > >no such thing as Kling Klang Studio printed on teir door, that is stupid. At > >least not half a year ago. But I am really curious how you guys think about > >that. To what extent should we reveal information about Kraftwerk. Are there > >any borders? > > Ah -ha! We have someone who is honest! It seems that the original poster is > looking very silly! > > Basically someone posted a message in reply to a query saying that the studio > was basically an ordinary house, with "Kling Klang studio" printed on the > letterbox. This sounded wrong to me, so I argued it. > > You should reveal the studio's location only if you believe that it will not > cause trouble for Kraftwerk themselves in any way. Can you tell us, though, > how you came to hear about the location of the studio ? > > Anyway, it's up to your conscience whether you reveal the studio's location or > not, you must decide for yourself. Oh my god, I don't believe it, I don't look silly, and you don't have your fingers to point on others, I just said it- believe it or not, but I don't like those discussions "You are wrong, that isn't right" and so on, maybe I'm wrong on that mailing list, I don't know. There are still some pictures left on my actual film, and probably on thursday or friday I'm in D"usseldorf, and for the case that the metal gate is open, I'll shoot a pic and mail it to you, ok? But sometimes, it seems to me that this isn't a place for discussion, what can I ask or post, if trouble of the type of the "Gesamtkunstwerk" or "KlingKlang" discussion starts immediately? That wasn't my intention, really, next time, I'll do it better.... Thomas ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 03:44:19 -0400 Subject: DJ's Best Really-From: MoogBoy@aol.com I should have "DJ's Best" (with Tour De France) any day now...it's in the mail to me from Germany. I think I may be the only Kraftwerk fan on this list to own it. Strange that it's so hard to find, I have been looking for this CD for 2 years now. I guess all the longing and hard work paid off. Just out of curiosity, how many people would be interested in DAT copies? Steve ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:48:28 +0100 Subject: tour de france cd... mistery solved Really-From: lbo hi, sometimes ago I told a fellow here to buy the original tour de france cd instead of asking for a boot, then I was suddenly corrected by other fellows about the non existence of official TDF cd. so, this is what happened. a friend of mine, another K fan, "built" a cover of TDF of the adequate size to be slipped inside a CD case, containing, obviously, a boot. the problem was that it was so realistically made (my friend is a graphic for a living and for a hobby, and is a little fanatic) that from when I saw it I belived it was official, and anyway never listened to this cd. also, I am not a collectionist so I don't cared very much. He only told me some days ago, when I asked to him "but didn't you own an official TDF cd?" sorry, pals! :-) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 15:58:07 +0200 (DFT) Subject: Re: Politics Really-From: Klaus Zaepke > Really-From: AstroBoy > > >1. Two of the most popular *positive* symbols from the Nazi era are > >the Autobahn and the Volksempfaenger - the cover motives of two > >successive Kraftwerk LP's. > > That doesn't mean they're nazis, does it? No, but it allows the interpretation that they like to play with Nazi imagery. > >2. In 1981 they intended to play only one concert in the GDR. Not in > >one of the large cities like East-Berlin, Leipzip or Dresden, as it would > >have been a normal choice, but in the small Chemnitz (aka Karl-Marx-Stadt!). > > What's Karl Marx got to do with nazism? Who claims that he has anything to do with nazism? Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #598 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #599 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 13 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 599 Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #589 Electronic single feat. Bartos Brand New Album Remixes on CD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 11 Jun 96 23:54:21 +0000 Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #589 Really-From: Brendan Heading >Oh my god, I don't believe it, I don't look silly, and you don't have your >fingers to point on others, I just said it- believe it or not, but I don't >like those discussions "You are wrong, that isn't right" and so on, maybe >I'm wrong on that mailing list, I don't know. Big apologies Thomas, I was talking about something I didn't really know about. Though I only said it because someone else suggested that you were not telling the truth, though I shouldn't have jumped conclusions like that. > There are still some >pictures left on my actual film, and probably on thursday or friday I'm >in D"usseldorf, and for the case that the metal gate is open, I'll shoot >a pic and mail it to you, ok? Can you digitize it and put it on UWP or something ? > But sometimes, it seems to me that this >isn't a place for discussion, what can I ask or post, if trouble of the >type of the "Gesamtkunstwerk" or "KlingKlang" discussion starts >immediately? That wasn't my intention, really, next time, I'll do it >better.... It's alright Thomas, it was my fault, I jumped in a bit quick just. Thankfully we seem to have avoided a flamewar :-) |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Giving money to governments is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" - -- Anonymous ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 12 Jun 96 14:01:29 EDT Subject: Electronic single feat. Bartos Really-From: Mark Stagg <101706.1667@CompuServe.COM> This week's NME and Melody Maker (dated 15th June 1996) both feature news items re Electronic's upcoming UK releases. The single - released June 24th on Parlophone - is called "Forbidden City" and according to the NME was co-written by Bernard Sumner, Johnny Marr, and Karl Bartos. The album is called "Raise The Pressure" and follows in July, as previously mentioned on the list. STAGGMAN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 01:17:54 +0200 Subject: Brand New Album Really-From: Michael Melzer CDBonzai ! liist an Kratwerk album titled "Brand New Album (TBA), japanese release for 48.98 USD. Check out http//.www.cdbanzai.com. Does anyone have more information about this one? Michael "Wir sind die Roboter..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 01:18:18 +0200 Subject: Remixes on CD Really-From: Michael Melzer Does anyone have Kraftwerk Remixes on CD? As far as I know "the Robots" and "Radioactivity" have been released as 12"s and Maxi-CDs at least in Germany together with the Mix. Does someone know where I could buy the CD versions? I am in Munich next week so recommondations of good record stores there would be really helpful. Michael "Ich bin der Musikant, mit Taschenrechner in der Hand..." ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #599 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #600 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Friday, 14 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 600 Re: Brand New Album Re: Brand New Album RE: Brand New Album REPOST Discussions Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #595 New album.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 08:40:39 -0300 Subject: Re: Brand New Album Really-From: Carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br (Carlos Jose Quinteiro) >CDBonzai ! liist an Kratwerk album titled "Brand New Album (TBA), japanese >release for 48.98 USD. Check out http//.www.cdbanzai.com. Does anyone have >more information about this one? In this site, if you make a research for Yes, it's a title also named "Brand New Album (TBA)". Detail : Yes is REALLY to release a new album (the provisory name is "Keys to Ascension"). Conclusion: if the Yes album really exists, why not the KW album???? =8-) Carlos Jose Quinteiro (-8= carlos@eaesp.fgvsp.br EAESP/FGV Brasil ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 13 Jun 96 07:58:42 EDT Subject: Re: Brand New Album Really-From: Mark Stagg <101706.1667@CompuServe.COM> > CDBonzai ! liist an Kratwerk album titled "Brand New Album (TBA), japanese > release for 48.98 USD. Check out http//.www.cdbanzai.com. Does anyone have > more information about this one? This does look quite promising, until I noticed the catalog no (Toshiba TOCP 7914), ie one number up from the Japanese compilation "The Best Of Kraftwerk". There was apparently a second such collection due from Toshiba, which was ultimately shelved for some reason - I reckon this is it. I thought maybe it has been rescheduled, as the update seems quite recent, but closer inspection reveals that the whole catalog has only been updated recently - presumably this is a fairly new website? :-( STAGGMAN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 10:01:32 -0400 Subject: RE: Brand New Album Really-From: "Freeman, Lon C." > >CDBonzai ! liist an Kratwerk album titled "Brand New Album (TBA), japanese >release for 48.98 USD. Check out http//.www.cdbanzai.com. Does anyone have >more information about this one? > >Michael >"Wir sind die Roboter..." That entry 'Brand New Album (TBA)' has been posted on that site for well over a year, maybe two. I called the person who works there a LONG tima ago about it and they said that they had no idea what the release really was and couldn't find out since the reference number came from Japan. He also said that Japan constantly changed their numbers so it's hard to tell what manufacturer number belongs to what. I didn't feel like shelling out $48.98 only to receive another release of the Japanese KW greatest hits CD. Also, don't go by the site's catalog update dates. It's just recently that that site updated their whole listing for all artists so this date doesn't mean much. Lon freeman@msmail.bms.com ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 15:17:05 +0200 Subject: Discussions Really-From: Paulo Mouat >> But sometimes, it seems to me that this isn't a place for discussion, >> what can I ask or post, if trouble of the type of the >> "Gesamtkunstwerk" or "KlingKlang" discussion starts immediately? That >> wasn't my intention, really, next time, I'll do it better.... > It's alright Thomas, it was my fault, I jumped in a bit quick just. > Thankfully we seem to have avoided a flamewar :-) Pardon me to intrude in this discussion, but as one of the main participants in the above mentioned discussion on "Gesamtkunstwerk," I'd like to disagree on the conclusions or the idea given by these posts. In no way should the "Gesamtkunstwerk" discussion be regarded as a flame war or as an indication of the intolerance of this list. In fact, and IMHO, it was a discussion taken light-heartedly on a subjective and highly controversial aspect of KW, the *reasons* behind their particular aesthetics, even so based on a quote by Ralf Huetter. In no way was it intended to be troublesome, and I think it wasn't. I even think (or hope to) it helped some of the members of this list in looking at KW from a different view, that they have a certain ideology that ultimately governs their style, as opposed to most of the music we listen nowadays. Anyway, I think it was a valuable discussion, it provided a new insight on KW, at least for myself, and I would be very disappointed if the general opinion about it would be a negative one, i.e. that the list would be better off without discussions such as those. In this case, the list would indeed prove its intolerance to subjects out of the ordinary "when is a new album coming," and it would not be a place for me, although I think it is far from coming to this point. Just for the sake of information, I enjoyed discussing the theme, it was a good tour de force. Maybe there were some members who disliked such a discussion, but that should not be caused by it appearing to be an open flame war. Just some thoughts. Best! - -- __|__ ___\_/___ \\\\\\ ___ Paulo Mouat, \\))))_ |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt ((((<_> |___| \\\\ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 13:58:00 +0100 Subject: Re: kraftwerk-digest V2 #595 Really-From: ARKZIN_ZG@ZAMIR-ZG.ZTN.APC.ORG (ARKzin Zagreb) Zagreb, 13.06.96, 14:52 Dear kraftwerk, - -------------------- I mean, DEAR SYSOP... I have a question about the KW-digest posting: Why don't I receive the KW-digests on weekends? Internet doesn't have (so far as I know) any working hours. I don't apply for reposting some KW-d's, but sometimes I'm lost in some Re:'s. So, if something about it can be done, I would be more than grateful. Keep up the good work! Thanx. Dadi (Radio-TTT_ZG@zamir-zg.ztn.apc.org) - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Information wants to be free! ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 17:27:46 -0600 Subject: New album.. Really-From: robotkl@earthlink.net (Kevin Lux) >CDBonzai ! liist an Kratwerk album titled "Brand New Album (TBA), japanese >release for 48.98 USD. Check out http//.www.cdbanzai.com. Does anyone have >more information about this one? Tried to order this, and will see what happens. Nevertheless, if it is released first in Japan, I am going there next month and will look for it. Thanks, KL http://members.aol.com/KevinL1712/Music/KevinLux2.html ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #600 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #601 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Saturday, 15 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 601 Schneider in short trousers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:43:09 +0200 (MST) Subject: Schneider in short trousers Really-From: Thomas Weckert Actually, I work on a web page about Kraftwerk in the local D"usseldorf press, the page doesnt exist physically yet, but Ive scanned already more or less funny pics: http://ernie.mi.uni-koeln.de/~tweckert/PIX/rp.gif Thomas... ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #601 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #602 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Sunday, 16 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 602 This mail has no content - it is a test Test 2 - Is there anyone out there???? Re: Is there anyone out there???? More info on Bartos/Electronic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 10:28:50 +0100 Subject: This mail has no content - it is a test Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) This is a test message. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 11:17:05 +0100 Subject: Test 2 - Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) I've still not recieved anything. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 11:17:57 +0100 Subject: Is there anyone out there???? Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) I despair. This e-mail still isn't working properly. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 10:38:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Is there anyone out there???? Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com I get it all. And the conversation is nada. No one speaks. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 15 Jun 96 15:04:54 EDT Subject: More info on Bartos/Electronic Really-From: Mark Stagg <101706.1667@CompuServe.COM> The July 1996 issue of the UK magazine "Blah Blah Blah" carries a 6-page interview with Bernard Sumner and Johnny Marr of Electronic, and gives a bit more detail on Karl Bartos' involvement. Bartos has apparently co-written six of the thirteen tracks on the new album, including the first two singles, "Forbidden City" and "For You". Also in the interview they explain how Electronic is conceived as an open-ended project, with the basic duo of Sumner and Marr being augmented by different people for each album, to give a different sound (previously it was Pet Shop Boys, now it's Bartos). The only other reference to Bartos is when they describe how he can walk in to a club, and instantly jot the groove down in musical notation - something which neither of them can do, apparently. STAGGMAN ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #602 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #603 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 18 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 603 No Digest On Weekends? "Forbidden city" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 10:45:48 -0600 (MDT) Subject: No Digest On Weekends? Really-From: "Lazlo Nibble" > I have a question about the KW-digest posting: > Why don't I receive the KW-digests on weekends? As far as a I can tell, digests go out every day including over the weekends - I certainly got digests this Saturday and Sunday. Are you missing digests or just not receiving the weekend editions until Monday? - -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 20:11:15 +0000 Subject: "Forbidden city" Really-From: "Klaus Zaepke" Electronic's "Forbidden city" is out now, at least in Germany. Catalogue number: Virgin 7243 8 93599 2 3 Tracklisting: 1. Forbidden city, 4:03 2. Imitation of live, 5:58 3. A new religion, 4:16 Karl Bartos is credited with keyboards. Klaus Zaepke ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #603 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #604 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 19 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 604 CD of Tour De France Capitol Years Re: Capitol Years ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 16:23:38 -0400 Subject: CD of Tour De France Really-From: MoogBoy@aol.com I'm debating making CD copies of Tour De France (digitaly transfered from DJ's best). This means that it would be Master Tape quality, not bootleg quality. I could also include version off of 12" vynle, and I may do my own remixed versions of it. I'm trying to get an idea of how many people would be interested in getting this CD, so i know how many to press. How much would a CD like this be worth? If you are interested in obtaining a copy, please RSVP. Send mail to: Moogboy@aol.com Later! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 20:44:59 -0400 Subject: Capitol Years Really-From: Frank Moriarty I bought all of the Cleopatra releases of Kraftwerk before the Capitol Years box set was released. However, I'm wondering if there is any advantage to picking up the box set - i.e. remastering, packaging etc. I don't think I've ever even seen a copy in the shops but I do know where I can mail order one. Any input appreciated! Frank ************************************************** * I want to hear and see everything... * * * * -- Jimi Hendrix * ************************************************** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 96 01:18:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Capitol Years Really-From: "Bruce M. Lloyd" >I bought all of the Cleopatra releases of Kraftwerk before the Capitol Years >box set was released. However, I'm wondering if there is any advantage to >picking up the box set - i.e. remastering, packaging etc. I don't think I've >ever even seen a copy in the shops but I do know where I can mail order one. > >Any input appreciated! I have it - it came with a relatively good booklet on the band, and a Kraftwerk sticker (yahoo!). The sticker is the cover of RadioActivity with "Kraftwerk" written in red. Otherwise, it is the exact same releases as the other Cleo products. ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #604 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #605 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 20 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 605 Re: Capitol Years Aktivitaet 4 - 'Electric Cafe - Edicion Espanola' ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Jun 96 07:15:25 EDT Subject: Re: Capitol Years Really-From: Mark Stagg <101706.1667@CompuServe.COM> >I bought all of the Cleopatra releases of Kraftwerk before the Capitol Years >box set was released. However, I'm wondering if there is any advantage to >picking up the box set - i.e. remastering, packaging etc. I don't think I've >ever even seen a copy in the shops but I do know where I can mail order one. > >Any input appreciated! The box itself is quite attractive, using individual photos of the band from 1981 (from the Japananese Tour program I believe - also used on the re-release of "The Model" compilation.). These photos are again used on a 9-panel fold-out "poster" that also features reproductions of Capitol's other Kraftwerk releases. That's the only concession to the original designs though, as there's no actual sleeves for each of the 3 CDs - they're just all housed in the double-sized case. And the discs themselves are quite plain, not having have the graphics found on Cleo's individual releases of "TEE" and "TMM" for example. Despite this difference in appearance though, there's certainly no remastering been carried out. There's a 40-page booklet which is okayish I guess, having a history of the band by Dave Thompson, and a discography - but there are no photos in it whatsoever, and it contains nothing that any KW fan wouldn't really know already. Apart from that, there's a pretty tacky "Radioactivity" sticker - and that's your lot. IMHO it's an OK thing to have if you're a Kompleatist, but if you have Cleo's other issues already you're certainly not missing much. STAGGMAN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 19 Jun 96 13:03:21 EDT Subject: Aktivitaet 4 - 'Electric Cafe - Edicion Espanola' Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> 'Electric Cafe - Edicion Espanola' by Jose Garcia Corral Ativitaet 4 - August 1993 (Updated June 1996) Please note; Aktivitaet is unofficial and has no contact with Kraftwerk and their current members. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I've been asked by several people about this Kraftwerk album, so I thought I could write a small article with info on this. In Spain, for several weeks after the release of the 'Electric Cafe' album, which was the usual version in English (with bits in Spanish, French and German), a rather odd release could be found in some stores in Barcelona: 'Electric Cafe - Edicion Espanola' (EMI, 074 24 0688 1) It was released in a gatefold sleeve and with an inner sleeve, like the usual English version. The only difference is that under the title 'Electric Cafe' on the front of the sleeve, there's the added title 'Edicion Espanola', in LCD calculator style lettering. The common version in English was also released on EMI, LP cat. no. 074 24 0644 1, as well as on cassette. A promo version of the English language version does exist. It might also exist for the 'Edicion Espanola' version. The 'Edicion Espanola' version was only available for a short period of time. It was a very limited pressing, as it wasn't a success in the Spanish charts! As far as I know it was only released in Spain and, to give you an idea of its rarity, a lot of Kraftwerk fans in Spain don't even know about its existence! Could have been released in other Spanish-speaking countries though, such as those in South America. The interest of this LP is its otherwise unobtainable version of 'Sex Object', which is sung in Spanish. The title of the song on the record label and back cover is not 'Objeto Sexual' as you would expect though. It has the same title as the English version, 'Sex Object'. It also features a slightly different version of 'Technopop', in which the verse sung by the human voice is always in Spanish. The 'Edicion Espanola' version was also released on cassette, cat. no. 274 2406884 - - END -- ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #605 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #606 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Friday, 21 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 606 A disgraceful incident Re: Kling-Klang Re: A disgraceful incident Re: A disgraceful incident ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 21:21:55 +0100 Subject: A disgraceful incident Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) I would like to thank those of you have kept me in touch with the kraftwerk mailing list (I will not name these people to ensure they are not persecuted). Although no one has admitted it, I believe their has been a spiteful, cowardly and thouroughly unpleasant attempt to remove me from this list. I haven't received any mails since the 8th June. No incident like this ever happened before the recent changes in the day to day administration of this list. Although I am NOT accusing anyone, I do consider this a very unfortunate incident. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 21:28:34 +0100 Subject: Re: Kling-Klang Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) Further to my last message it now appears that I've been able to successfully resubscribe to the mailing list. I am prepared to consider this an unfortunate incident which has now resolved itself. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 14:57:26 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: A disgraceful incident Really-From: "Lazlo Nibble" > I haven't received any mails since the 8th June. No incident like this ever > happened before the recent changes in the day to day administration of this > list. Although I am NOT accusing anyone, I do consider this a very > unfortunate incident. Brian, I want to make it clear to you right now that if you post any more garbage to this list, *I* will be the one removing you. You have posted more rumors, hoaxes, and lies to this list over the last year or two than all the other subscribers of *all* the other lists I run put together, and I'm not going to put up with it. Consider this your public warning. - -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 16:16:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: A disgraceful incident Really-From: Dan Linder On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, kraftwerk mailing list wrote: > I haven't received any mails since the 8th June. No incident like this ever > happened before the recent changes in the day to day administration of this > list. Although I am NOT accusing anyone, I do consider this a very > unfortunate incident. I think the list may be just a bit dead lately... I've been getting very little mail as well... - - upside@mcs.net - Dan Linder - keep talking... - ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #606 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #607 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Saturday, 22 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 607 Re: A disgraceful incident Electronic NME Video Games, Radio-Activity, and Kraftwerk. Re: Video Games, Radio-Activity, and Kraftwerk. Re: Video Games, Radio-Activity, and Kraftwerk. RE: Video Games, Radio-Activity, and Kraftwerk. Re: A disgraceful incident ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 09:23:21 +0200 Subject: Re: A disgraceful incident Really-From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) > I think the list may be just a bit dead lately... I've been getting very > little mail as well... Yeah, it's summer, people became lazy to type anything or busy with exams... WaKe UP! - -- __ Timour JGENTI ___________ Institut Francais du Petrole ______ __ timour.jgenti@ifp.fr DIMA, groupe Image __ http://www.utbm.fr/les.personnes/lu.chen/timourpages/tim.html ________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 96 09:21:07 EDT Subject: Electronic NME Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle There's a big piece on Electronic in this week's NME- I haven't actually read it yet but scanning through it I see Karl Bartos is only mentioned once in passing, where it's just said that he helped write some of the tracks. Nick ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 15:53:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Video Games, Radio-Activity, and Kraftwerk. Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" Fellow Kraftwerkians, I know that the subject line is a mouthful, but it includes all the elements I wish to discuss and link together here in this post. I was just reading Pascal Bussy's book again and I came across something that got me thinking. In the chapter called "Calculators and Discos", Bussy writes: ************************* "...Neil Roland in an interview in the Melody Maker in July 1981, asked Hutter what his opinion was of games like Space Invaders. Ralf Hutter: 'Yes, I find that very sad because you could play so many interesting games other than shooting, that shows again how sick they are, the only thing they think about is shooting each other. If they don't do it physically then they do it mentally on a screen.'" ************************* The real interesting part of all this comes into play when we consider the second video that was made for the song "Radio-Activity". Those of you who have seen the video recall that the entire course of the video is taken up by shots of a video game being played. This particular video game features a space ship which is flying around through caves and caverns as it shoots down oncoming enemy spacecrafts. In the background of the video game screen we can see nuclear reactors, thus being the element that links the video game to the song itself. My thought was that if Ralf Hutter claimed that these "shoot 'em up" types of video games were senseless in 1981, then why feature such a video game as the main subject of one of their videos back in 1976 (even if it did sort of tie into the radioactivity theme)? Did they have a change of heart along the way, or is this possibly another of Ralf's interview inconsistencies? Your thoughts? Also, does anyone know if KW themselves made that second video, or was it put together by the record company for promotional purposes? The answer to this question may provide more insight into the answer to my first question. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "From station to station..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 96 16:23:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Video Games, Radio-Activity, and Kraftwerk. Really-From: "Bruce M. Lloyd" > The real interesting part of all this comes into play when we >consider the second video that was made for the song "Radio-Activity". >Those of you who have seen the video recall that the entire course of the >video is taken up by shots of a video game being played. This particular >video game features a space ship which is flying around through caves and >caverns as it shoots down oncoming enemy spacecrafts. In the background of >the video game screen we can see nuclear reactors, thus being the element >that links the video game to the song itself. > My thought was that if Ralf Hutter claimed that these "shoot 'em up" >types of video games were senseless in 1981, then why feature such a video >game as the main subject of one of their videos back in 1976 (even if it did >sort of tie into the radioactivity theme)? Did they have a change of heart >along the way, or is this possibly another of Ralf's interview >inconsistencies? Your thoughts? Also, does anyone know if KW themselves >made that second video, or was it put together by the record company for >promotional purposes? The answer to this question may provide more insight >into the answer to my first question. I've never seen the video, but it sounds like a bad period-piece of work. Recall the early 80s, you have virtually every kid playing games on these huge, unweilding machines. No one understood, really, how they worked, and the previous generation considered them either too cerebral or, only geeks (aka "nerds" if we're keeping up with the vernacular of the times) used them. Enter Kraftwerk. Totally electronic, total synthesized, much like the video games. Its an awful stereotype, but put one and one together. Blech.. Bruce Bruce M. Lloyd, Technical Advisor, BGI SI Markham, Ontario, Canada Internet: bml@bgi.on.ca AppleLink: CDA.TAL ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 15:16:32 -0700 Subject: Re: Video Games, Radio-Activity, and Kraftwerk. Really-From: l.meyer@ix.netcom.com (L. Meyer ) >Really-From: "Bruce M. Lloyd" >Enter Kraftwerk. Totally electronic, total synthesized, much like the >video games. Its an awful stereotype, but put one and one together. >Blech.. >Bruce Also, has anyone ever considered the influence of Kraftwerk on video game music? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 19:55:20 -0300 Subject: RE: Video Games, Radio-Activity, and Kraftwerk. Really-From: Eduardo Marcel Macan kraftwerk mailing list writes: > ************************* > "...Neil Roland in an interview in the Melody Maker in July 1981, > asked Hutter what his opinion was of games like Space Invaders. Ralf Hutter: > > 'Yes, I find that very sad because you could play so many > interesting games other than shooting, that shows again how sick they are, > the only thing they think about is shooting each other. If they don't do it > physically then they do it mentally on a screen.'" > ************************* -----8<----- Just to add a new element into the subject video games... The nintendo game "Double Dragon 3" plays the intro for Trans Europe Express when you turn the machine on :) I have always wondered whether KW guys new about this or not... :) It was a nice surprise for me when I played that in 91 though :) - -- |\/| /\ ( /\ |\| ' +----Eduardo-Marcel-Macan------+---------------------------------------------+ | macan@dcc.unicamp.br | "I program my home computer, | | http://www.unicamp.br/~macan | beam myself into the future" --Kraftwerk | +------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 22:40:35 -0700 Subject: Re: A disgraceful incident Really-From: Luther Welsh >Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) > >I would like to thank those of you have kept me in touch with the kraftwerk >mailing list You lie. There is nobody keeping you in touch. You are forever claiming offline support, but you have *none*, either offline or online. [snip more sobbing] Brian, you lost all credibility with me when you failed to track down that David Marsburg character who mailbombed this list over a year ago. Your argument doesn't hold water. As a faculty member, you should have been able to trace him down. I think *you* posted it. It would be a bad miscalculation on your part should you choose to try it again. - --Luke ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #607 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #608 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Sunday, 23 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 608 Re: re; Radio-Activity promo video Re: re; Radio-Activity promo video Florian's Role Re: A disgraceful incident ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 22 Jun 96 09:23:27 EDT Subject: Re: re; Radio-Activity promo video Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> > Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" > The real interesting part of all this comes into play when we > consider the second video that was made for the song "Radio-Activity". > Those of you who have seen the video recall that the entire course of the > video is taken up by shots of a video game being played. > > My thought was that if Ralf Hutter claimed that these "shoot 'em up" > types of video games were senseless in 1981, then why feature such a video > game as the main subject of one of their videos back in 1976 > Did they have a change of heart > along the way, or is this possibly another of Ralf's interview > inconsistencies? Your thoughts? In issues 4-6 of Aktivitaet there was a series of articles about Kraftwerk's promo videos and TV appearances. Unfortunately, there are a number of errors and mistaken assumptions made by the original author of these articles, which I have attempted to correct in subsequent issues. A compilation of this article is also available via the Infobahr. I believe it is from these articles that confusion about the 'promo video' for Radio-Activity as described above stems from. I believe that it is not the 'promo video' which the article makes it out to be; the clip is from a German TV documentary on Kraftwerk called 'Die Mensch Maschine' from 1982. As well as 'Radio-Activity', there are similar clips for 'The Voice of Energy', 'Showroom Dummies', 'Europe Endless'. All of these use a mixture of 'stock footage' and still images of portions of Kraftwerk record sleeves. These appear to be compilations of images especially for use with that programme (to the best of my knowledge they have not been used in any other programme) and thus are not the 'promo videos' that the original Aktivitaet articles portrayed and I doubt very much that Kraftwerk had any part in their compilation. There are many other programmes where the shows makers have similarly intercut 'stock footage' or specially filmed footage over Kraftwerk music but it seems unlikely that Kraftwerk would have had any hand in the matter and they are not counted as 'promo videos'. I would suggest that the 'promo video' for 'Radio-Activity' as described above be similarly discounted. > Also, does anyone know if KW themselves > made that second video, or was it put together by the record company for > promotional purposes? The answer to this question may provide more insight > into the answer to my first question. Since it is highly unlikely that KW did have any say in the use of the footage then it has no bearing on Ralf's quote I feel. Ian Calder * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Chain reaction and mutation ... Contaminated population" * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 10:03:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: re; Radio-Activity promo video Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" >video' which the article makes it out to be; the clip is from a German TV >documentary on Kraftwerk called 'Die Mensch Maschine' from 1982. With the knowledge that this video was put together in 1982, I am much more inclined to think that KW had nothing to do with the making of this video since the song itself came out in 1975. I would think it is highly unlikely that a band would release a video in 1982 for a song that was originally released in 1975. Knowing this makes me happy indeed. :o) >Since it is highly unlikely that KW did have any say in the use of the footage >then >it has no bearing on Ralf's quote I feel. This also makes me quite happy. Thanks a lot for that info, Ian. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Try to get a connection on the telephone line..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 11:11:18 -0400 Subject: Florian's Role Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Does anyone really know what Florian does/adds to the music? I know "The Book" has quotes about him doing the "odd" elements and whatnot, but does anyone know of any precise things he has actually done in the music? I know he is responsible (live anyway) for the 'pole-position' type sweeping car noises in "Autobahn" - because I saw a PBS video where he was turning the knobs on his ARP Odessey to achieve this effect. Anyone? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 22 Jun 96 00:07:35 +0000 Subject: Re: A disgraceful incident Really-From: Brendan Heading Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about Re: A disgraceful incident when you said... >> I haven't received any mails since the 8th June. No incident like this ever >> happened before the recent changes in the day to day administration of this >> list. Although I am NOT accusing anyone, I do consider this a very >> unfortunate incident. Brian, how is it dastardly and cowardly ? No one except the admin has the power to remove you, and he wouldn't do that without warning. If you were kicked off, then you would know about it through a direct mailing. - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "We don't need lessons from Brussels on how to be European. We have know that for centuries". -- Jean Michel Jarre ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #608 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #609 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Monday, 24 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 609 Re: Kling-Klang Re: Florian's Role Re: Florian's Role ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 22 Jun 96 00:09:52 +0000 Subject: Re: Kling-Klang Really-From: Brendan Heading Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about Re: Kling-Klang when you said... >-- Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Further to my last message it now appears that I've been able to >successfully resubscribe to the mailing list. I am prepared to consider this >an unfortunate incident which has now resolved itself. Oh dear. He's back, and he means to spread loads of rumours. Take cover lads... he's coming in for the kill... arrrrgggghhhh,...... (sound of brendan dying) Sorry for the off topic shit dudes. Just trying to busy the list up a bit. - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Eek, Eek, Wibble Hatstand, my old man's a monkey" -- Blackadder Goes Forth ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 22 Jun 96 20:55:52 +0000 Subject: Re: Florian's Role Really-From: Brendan Heading >Does anyone really know what Florian does/adds to the music? I know "The >Book" has quotes about him doing the "odd" elements and whatnot, but does >anyone know of any precise things he has actually done in the music? I know >he is responsible (live anyway) for the 'pole-position' type sweeping car >noises in "Autobahn" - because I saw a PBS video where he was turning the >knobs on his ARP Odessey to achieve this effect. Anyone? I've a documentary on KW, and Kraftwerk's biographer, Nick Fish, says that Florian is the one who susses out the tonal possibilities of the synths and getting it working and doing that sort of stuff, where Ralf is the one who comes up with all the melodies and plays the sounds that Florian creates. I'm not underestimating Florian here - I think the sounds used by Kraftwerk are one of the most important aspects of their work, as well as the actual melodies. - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Musak is the shit you hear in elevators and supermarkets". -- Jean Michel Jarre ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 19:00:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Florian's Role Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Ok - how about live? ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #609 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #610 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, 25 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 610 Die Mench Machine Re: Die Mench Machine Re: Die Mench Machine Re: Die Mench Machine Re: Die Mench Machine Re: Die Mench Machine New bands Re: Florian's Role Re: Florian's Role ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 11:50:12 -0400 Subject: Die Mench Machine Really-From: Genepool@aol.com I have the German Language version of the CD Man Machine. I noticed that on some songs like "Robots", there is a noticable amount of backround noise that comes in when certain keyboard lines are heard. The most noticable is the sharp staccato melody that comes in after the line "we are the robots". Do all versions of this CD have that or is this mastered poorly? Steve ********************************** genepool is the name or our band *********************************** ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 12:40:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com All versions that I've heard have a bit of noise on that particular passage. I though I was the only one that noticed! I also notice some wierd background noise on part Computer World album.......... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 12:08:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: stdwle@shsu.edu (W. Ladd Ellett) > >I have the German Language version of the CD Man Machine. I noticed that on >some songs like "Robots", there is a noticable amount of backround noise that >comes in when certain keyboard lines are heard. The most noticable is the >sharp staccato melody that comes in after the line "we are the robots". Do >all versions of this CD have that or is this mastered poorly? > >Steve Steve, The synthesizers that Kraftwerk used were generally quiet when not being played but created noise with their musical output. This problem is compounded by the use of digital re-recording that picks up every nuance of the recording. I have noticed the same phenomenon with my english versions, especially Computer World. So, I doubt it is bad mastering, just the inherent noise of analog synths being picked up and amplified on your CD. Just my two cents. W.L.Ellett Email:stdwle@shsu.edu Web Page:http://www.shsu.edu/~stdwle/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 19:53:39 MET Subject: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: "CHIRIATTI CLAUDIO" > All versions that I've heard have a bit of noise on that particular passage. > I though I was the only one that noticed! I also notice some wierd > background noise on part Computer World album.......... > I think this depends on the old analogue technology they've used on these albums and on some very slow compressors/gates. You can hear these noises on the CD and vinyl releases of these albums. They recorded their early albums completely on analogue technology because digital recording technology wasn't invented so far. That means that you also record the noise of the synthesizer output, too. A compressor/gate is a studio tool that should prevent these noise by turning down the volume of a synthesizer after playing its part. The compressor/gate that KW used on these albums was simply too slow. Claudio ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 14:45:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com It seems odd that the synthesizer would produce noise on only that one passage - and it does. There are no other sections of that song or others that have the similar noise. I realize that those four notes are alone on a track (perhaps) and maybe the synth made the noise - but why didn't it on the preceding four notes? ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 21:15:44 +0100 Subject: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >All versions that I've heard have a bit of noise on that particular passage. > I though I was the only one that noticed! I also notice some wierd >background noise on part Computer World album.......... A lot of Kraftwerk recordings are of poor quality. This always amused me as they've always applied the highest technology available in musical instrumentation. I suspect the root of the problem is that they've never been successful enough to afford the best studios, which other electronic outfits did. For example ZTTs bands had access to the best quality studios and it shows. Listen to those flawless albums by Propoganda and FGTH. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 21:24:05 +0100 Subject: New bands Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) Now that I've all but given up on ever hearing a new kraftwerk album I thought you might like to know about possible alternatives you may not have considered. 1) Plastic Fantastic: A brand new British pop band. Based on the sound of the early 80's they have more than a little in common with kraftwerk. 2) The Beloved: Their new album has recieved a mixed reaction in the UK. 3)Madness: Although almost as old as Kraftwerk I attended their latest comeback gig on Saturday night. 30, 000 people (I guess) saw them play Finsbury Park. They played BRAND new material which had a strong keyboard influence. Very good. 4) Shampoo. Although most may regard their inclusion as a joke the fact is that they are enormously successful in Japan. Although unheard of in the USA and rapidly sinking without a trace in the UK, their intelligent blend of electronic rock is well worth a go. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 21:40:24 GMT Subject: Re: Florian's Role Really-From: lbo At 11:11 22/06/96 -0400, you wrote: >Does anyone really know what Florian does/adds to the music? I know "The well, let's just guess something from the envelope picture of Ralf & Florian. there you can see that Ralf poses with a sort of wind instrument, and that Florian sits besides keuboards and other devices. or maybe he is the "engineer" side of K. they are always said to selfbuild a lot of their musical instruments and to be consultants to electronic instrument firms... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 21:41:11 GMT Subject: Re: Florian's Role Really-From: lbo >I'm not underestimating Florian here - I think the sounds used by Kraftwerk yes, maybe Florian seem to be in a sort of second order, but this is only because all the public appearances as interviews and similar are made by Ralf. he seem to be a very shy person, I meet him by chance at the Firenze-Grassina concert, I recognized him even if he was trying to "mimetize" himself as a "normal one", and asked him an autograph on the cover of a record. he sort of runned away... I was younger, otherwise I would have respected his desire for privacy. ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #610 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #611 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Wednesday, 26 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 611 Trans-Europe Express Re: Trans-Europe Express Re: Trans-Europe Express Re: Trans-Europe Express Re: Trans-Europe Express Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Re: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths RE: Die Mench Machine Re: Die Mench Machine RE: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Re: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 04:15:32 -0400 Subject: Trans-Europe Express Really-From: RENEGAR Can someone tell me while lookin at the US release album cover of Trans-Europe Express, the names of the members of Kraftwerk from left to right? I 've always been confused about who is who? Renegar ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 96 09:49:14 EDT Subject: Re: Trans-Europe Express Really-From: Nicholas Patrick Carlisle RALF HUTTER: NICE SQUARE JAW LITTLE PIGGY NOSE SMART BRYL-CREAMED SIDE PARTING FLORIAN SCHNEIDER: HUGE LIKE AN ACADEMIC DISTINGUISHED MOUTH-POSITION LAPEL BADGE WOLFGANG FLUR: 2nd BIGGEST EYEBROWS NICE BIG EYES EVEN SMARTER SIDE-PARTING KARL BARTOS: MY FAVOURITE CROPPED BOWIE-HEROES HAIRDO THE BIGGEST EYEBROWS CHEEKBONES LOVELY BIG KISSER ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 09:48:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Trans-Europe Express Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Yes and from left to right: Wolfgang Flur Karl Bartos Florian Schneider Ralf Hutter It's interesting to note that Bill Halverson was an engineer on this project - - I found this out a few months after he was a guest speaker at a recording school I went to! If I had only known......................... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:35:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Trans-Europe Express Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" > Can someone tell me while lookin at the US release album cover of >Trans-Europe Express, the names of the members of Kraftwerk from left to >right? I 've always been confused about who is who? Well, that's easy enough - from left to right it's Wolfgang Fluer, Karl Bartos, Florian Schneider, and Ralf Huetter. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "I'm the operator..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 18:11:19 +0200 (MST) Subject: Re: Trans-Europe Express Really-From: Thomas Weckert > Yes and from left to right: > Wolfgang Flur > Karl Bartos > Florian Schneider > Ralf Hutter > ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 14:08:40 -0400 Subject: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Really-From: Genepool@aol.com <> This isn't quite right. The noise on the album is only when the part is played. A noise gate does turn it down immediately after the part finishes. Analog noise gates are just as fast as digital noise gates. Noise gates can't prevent noise when a part is playing, only when a part is not playing. Also digital/analog recording has nothing to do with it. If a synth is noisey, digital recording will record the noise just as much as an analog recorder. On analog it's usually not as noticeable because tape hiss often covers it up. The reason I asked the question in the first place is because I had never noticed the noise on my vinyl copy. It also seemed very strange to have that much noise on only one synth line. I have also noticed that different versions of some CD's are not mastered carefully, using second generation tapes, etc. This sometimes will create additional noise on a CD. Steve ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 14:45:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com That's what I said ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 96 23:04 +0100 Subject: RE: Die Mench Machine Really-From: Frank.Huebenthal@t-online.de (Frank.Huebenthal) >I have the German Language version of the CD Man Machine. I noticed that on >some songs like "Robots", there is a noticable amount of backround noise that >comes in when certain keyboard lines are heard. The most noticable is the >sharp staccato melody that comes in after the line "we are the robots". Do >all versions of this CD have that or is this mastered poorly? I think they used a sawtooth wave and *much* highpass filtering to get this bright, sharp sound. The problem: the high spectral frequency parts of this filtered signal are only at a low level and have to be amplified much. High amplification always comes together with additional noise. That is what you hear. BTW, the notes before the most noisy part do have background noise, too ! (Someone on this list said they wouldn't... just use headphones to hear the noise better) I don't think that they have used automatic noise gates, this would really sound in another way. I think they muted the recording track by hand to suppress the noise. Frank ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 18:35:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com That could be a sawtooth wave - I always thought that it and the others were pulse waves with the width being slowy modulated. Has anyone else ever noticed that Man-Machine seems to be the "wettest" KW album? I mean - the resonant filters seem to be more prevelant in the modulation aspect on this album than any other................... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 22:13:06 -0400 Subject: RE: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Really-From: Chris LaRose - ---------- From: kraftwerk mailing list[SMTP:kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu] Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 1996 2:08 PM To: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu Subject: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ----- To remove yourself from this list, send a message to = majordomo@cs.uwp.edu that message body. All messages sent to this list are automatically made = available via FTP, Gopher, and WWW. If you do not like this, don't mail to this = list. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ----- Really-From: Genepool@aol.com <> This isn't quite right. The noise on the album is only when the part is played. A noise gate does turn it down immediately after the part = finishes. Analog noise gates are just as fast as digital noise gates. Noise gates = can't prevent noise when a part is playing, only when a part is not playing. = Also digital/analog recording has nothing to do with it. If a synth is = noisey, digital recording will record the noise just as much as an analog = recorder. On analog it's usually not as noticeable because tape hiss often covers = it up. The reason I asked the question in the first place is because I had = never noticed the noise on my vinyl copy. It also seemed very strange to have = that much noise on only one synth line. I have also noticed that different versions of some CD's are not mastered carefully, using second = generation tapes, etc. This sometimes will create additional noise on a CD. Steve OK OK, here is the deal. If you pay close attention to the sequence in = question, you will find that when the higher notes are played, the = treble is boosted in the recording. This treble effect remains until = the lower notes again repeat. =20 Either they wanted a BRIGHTER sound for the higher notes or a voltage = controlled filter was in place and opened up as expected to track the = higher notes. I believe they manually did it on the mixing board and = did it rythmically to try to hide it. I used to study their albums inside and out. =20 Do you hear Ralf saying 'Yea' just before 'I program my home computer'? How about the ambient leak of room sound of the metal-drum sticks when = Ralf's mike is on during the same song? The computer beeping (keeping time) in Numbers? Am I the only one who noticed these things? There are lots more. I was the original post for the backwards lyrics in Robots? People = first said that I was mistaken (a year ago) now I see it is back in the = list. Have lots of other snippents to share if anyone is interested. Also met = Florian once at a club in Detroit during CW tour. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 22:18:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Tell me more - i am interested in these tid-bits! ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #611 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #612 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Thursday, 27 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 612 Re: Trans-Europe Express Re: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Re: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Re: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 10:26:26 +0200 (MST) Subject: Re: Trans-Europe Express Really-From: Thomas Weckert > > Yes and from left to right: > > Wolfgang Flur > > Karl Bartos > > Florian Schneider > > Ralf Hutter > > Sorry, that was no fake, but right in the moment when I wanted to send my mail our NFS crashed... Thomas ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 19:28:11 MET Subject: Re: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Really-From: "CHIRIATTI CLAUDIO" > Tell me more - i am interested in these tid-bits! What do you mean with "these tid-bits". Claudio ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:41:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com Claudio - "tid-bits" of information that another user (forgot the name) was posting about things he picked up in KW recordings.............. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 26 Jun 96 17:58:54 EDT Subject: Re: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Really-From: Ian Calder <101460.571@CompuServe.COM> > Really-From: Genepool@aol.com > I used to study their albums inside and out. > > Do you hear Ralf saying 'Yea' just before 'I program my home computer'? Certainly that or something very similar, yes. > How about the ambient leak of room sound of the metal-drum sticks when > Ralf's mike is on during the same song? There are one or two tracks where it seems that they have been a little lax in terms of that kind of noise leak, where the vocal tracks are picking up playback, the original 1983 mix of the German language 'Tour De France' is a good example, if compared to the equivalent English language mix. > Am I the only one who noticed these things? There are lots more Check out the start of 'The Man Machine' - there are very faint, high pitched pulses present if you listen close with headphones, for the first 10 secs or so, you hear them on the off notes, not the 'click' sound. Ian Calder ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #612 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #613 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Friday, 28 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 613 RE: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Re: Die Mench Machine RE: Die Mench Machine Re: Die Mench Machine Re: Die Mench Machine Re: Die Mench Machine Re: Die Mench Machine RE: Re: Die Mench Machine Re: Florian's Role Remastering Re: Remastering Re: Die Mench Machine Re: Remastering ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 08:46:30 -0400 Subject: RE: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Really-From: "Freeman, Lon C." > >> Am I the only one who noticed these things? There are lots more > >Check out the start of 'The Man Machine' - there are very faint, high pitched >pulses present if you listen close with headphones, for the first 10 secs or >so, > >you hear them on the off notes, not the 'click' sound. > > Ian Calder > > I really like those faint, high pitched beeps on the off-beats. Once I heard them when the volume was up I became conditioned to listen for it specifically every time I hear the song. Since they are syncopated with the beginning clicks I assume that they were put in there and it isn't some kind of delay or echo from the equipment. I could be wrong though and it's a cool accident. Lon freeman@msmail.bms.com ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 12:36:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: Spotnik@aol.com A lot of Kraftwerk recordings are of poor quality? Did I read that right? Which ones? The vinyl releases, especially the German ones, of Autobahn, Computerwelt, Die Mensch Machine, The Mix, Electric Cafe, and Trans Europa Express are all outstanding sonically--just listen on a high end system and you'll hear. Ditto for the CD of The Mix. Haven't heard any other CDs. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 13:00:09 -0400 Subject: RE: Die Mench Machine Really-From: "Freeman, Lon C." >A lot of Kraftwerk recordings are of poor quality? Did I read that right? >Which ones? The vinyl releases, especially the German ones, of Autobahn, >Computerwelt, Die Mensch Machine, The Mix, Electric Cafe, and Trans Europa >Express are all outstanding sonically--just listen on a high end system and >you'll hear. Ditto for the CD of The Mix. Haven't heard any other CDs. The CDs are outstanding as well. Lon ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 18:40:33 +0200 Subject: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: Paulo Mouat > The vinyl releases, (...) are all outstanding sonically--just listen > on a high end system and you'll hear. Ditto for the CD of The Mix. > Haven't heard any other CDs. Glad to have someone to talk about experiencing KW on high-end systems. The Mix is the best CD-recording of all (full, warm sound). TEE sounds good too although very cold. Of all others, maybe CW is the only one that comes near these two. But you should listen to the latest CDs of Front Line Assembly, Download or Skinny Puppy to hear a much more thorough sounding electronics. They're just great. Greetz! - -- __|__ ___\_/___ ___ Paulo Mouat, |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt |___| ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 Aug 93 20:39:44 +0000 Subject: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: Brendan Heading Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about Re: Die Mench Machine when you said... >> All versions that I've heard have a bit of noise on that particular >> passage. >> >I think this depends on the old analogue technology they've used on >these albums and on some very slow compressors/gates. >You can hear these noises on the CD and vinyl releases of these >albums. Definitely. I think that Autobahn is a particularly bad recording - towards the end of the title track there is a lot of noticeable distortion in the sound. Komettenmelodie 2 (spelt wrong, I know) is also a bit noisy. The other recordings seem to be much better to me. Trans Europe Express and Computer World are pretty good considering their age. >They recorded their early albums completely on analogue technology >because digital recording technology wasn't invented so far. It's not strictly for that reason - it's because of the lack of noise reduction techniques at the time - they were not what they are now. Many musicians still swear by analogue decks, and it is possible to achieve excellent recordings from them. - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Giving money to governments is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" - -- Anonymous ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 Aug 93 20:41:41 +0000 Subject: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: Brendan Heading Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about Re: Die Mench Machine when you said... >Steve, >The synthesizers that Kraftwerk used were generally quiet when not being >played but created noise with their musical output. This problem is >compounded by the use of digital re-recording that picks up every nuance of >the recording. I have noticed the same phenomenon with my english versions, >especially Computer World. So, I doubt it is bad mastering, just the >inherent noise of analog synths being picked up and amplified on your CD. Absolutely true. A question though - does anyone know if the re-releases of Trans Europe Express, The Man Machine and Computerworld are remastered at all ? My copy of Computerworld seems to be a very good recording. - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "We don't need lessons from Brussels on how to be European. We have know that for centuries". -- Jean Michel Jarre ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 Aug 93 20:56:27 +0000 Subject: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: Brendan Heading Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about Re: Die Mench Machine when you said... >A lot of Kraftwerk recordings are of poor quality. This always amused me as >they've always applied the highest technology available in musical >instrumentation. Yeah, I just think they couldn't fit the good tape decks into the KlingKlang studio, more than anything else. - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "We don't need lessons from Brussels on how to be European. We have know that for centuries". -- Jean Michel Jarre ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 96 23:08 +0100 Subject: RE: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: Frank.Huebenthal@t-online.de (Frank.Huebenthal) >That could be a sawtooth wave - I always thought that it and the others were >pulse waves with the width being slowy modulated. Has anyone else ever >noticed that Man-Machine seems to be the "wettest" KW album? I mean - the >resonant filters seem to be more prevelant in the modulation aspect on this >album than any other................... Yes, of course, it could also be a pulse wave with less symmetry. But that wasn't the point of discussion that time. Sorry, I don't have a spectrum analyzer ;) But the second part is much more interesting ! It's right, and I never noticed it before... Man Machine is really the album with the most filter modulation. In nearly all other albums modulation of the filter frequency is used not very much (a little bit in TEE to get the rail sound for example). It's great ! You hear these records for years and there are always new things to discover. Frank ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 Aug 93 20:36:04 +0000 Subject: Re: Florian's Role Really-From: Brendan Heading Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about Re: Florian's Role when you said... >>I'm not underestimating Florian here - I think the sounds used by Kraftwerk >yes, maybe Florian seem to be in a sort of second order, but this is only >because all the public appearances as interviews and similar are made by >Ralf. he seem to be a very shy person, I meet him by chance at the >Firenze-Grassina concert, I recognized him even if he was trying to >"mimetize" himself as a "normal one", and asked him an autograph on the >cover of a record. Yes. Karl Bartos has spoken of how they don't like to make a lot of contact with other people. I don't believe it's anything to do with Kraftwerk as such - - I think they are just like that by nature. At least you've had a chance to speak to Florian! - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Recursion : see Recursion" ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 17:54:07 -0500 Subject: Remastering Really-From: stdwle@unx1.shsu.edu (W. Ladd Ellett) >A question though - does anyone know if the re-releases of Trans Europe Express, The Man Machine and Computerworld are remastered at all ? My copy of Computerworld seems to be a very good recording. In a word, yes. They were remastered for CD. This should not be confused with RE-MIXING, however. The CD master would be made from the original analog that we have heard on vinyl and cassette, yet the original tracks, volumes, effects used, etc. are all exactly the same. (I. e. the 2" multi-track tape was not used, but the 1/2 " master). Hope this helps, and it might even be considered a "tidbit"! :) Ladd W.L.Ellett Email:stdwle@shsu.edu Web Page:http://www.shsu.edu/~stdwle/ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 27 Jun 96 21:54:15 EDT Subject: Re: Remastering Really-From: Mark Stagg <101706.1667@CompuServe.COM> > In a word, yes. They were remastered for CD. Sorry to disagree, but no they haven't. When the original vinyl and cassette versions were released, they were generated from a production master which in turn would be at least one generation removed from the original master tape - sometimes even more. This production master would be eq'd/compressed/whatever in the way that the cutting engineer would think most appropriate to give the best transfer to vinyl. When CDs first came into being it was considered good enough to go back to this production master and generate the CD (glass) master from that: hey presto...no static, no pops, wonderful digital sound. However, as digital recordings have become the norm, higher criteria are now applied to the mastering process, which can result in a truer representation of the producer's original vision, or possibly even an improvement. It's quite common, for example, for a vinyl cut and a CD master to be treated in completely different ways. The term remastering specifically refers to going back to original master tape, admittedly as you said, but also generating a new production master from it, resulting in a superior transfer that takes fuller advantage of the CD medium. NONE of KW's albums, ANYWHERE, have had this done, and indeed is something that would have to be at least approved by KW, as they own the original masters (i.e." Kling Klang Produkt *under licence* to blah blah"). Presumably a loophole in their contracts has allowed some labels to repackage certain items from their back catalogue - e.g. those on Cleopatra - but these releases have certainly not been remastered in the true sense of the word. Please don't think I'm being picky; I would simply love to see KW's albums PROPERLY reissued. It's now quite common for labels to remaster their major or important artists' back catalogues, pleasing fans and selling a whole lot more copies into the bargain. I also would have thought that R+F - given their meticulous attention to detail - would have availed themselves of such an opportunity by now. Seems strange, that's all. STAGGMAN ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:27:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com In regrads to "wetness" in general, I have noticed that KW usually goes for pretty dry sounds. TEE (song) uses the EG depth to modulate the filter for the bass notes....but other than that, there are very few other spots that the filter is being modulated on that album. And CW too.......The "lead" sound on "Spacelab" sounds incredibly pure - like a flute almost - but the same effect can be made with the "sync" mode of an oscillator. I have experimented and come up with many reedy, woodwind-type sounds that are very pure on my Pro-one. The only synth (that I know of anyway) that KW could have done this with at that time was an Arp Odessey. Oh well, just some more babble................ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 21:53:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Remastering Really-From: stdwle@unx1.shsu.edu (W. Ladd Ellett) >The term remastering specifically refers to going back to original master tape, admittedly as you said, but also generating a new production master from it, resulting in a superior transfer that takes fuller advantage of the CD medium. I meant the master, not the multi track. OBVIOUSLY there would be some processing going on - probably nothing more than a miniscule of EQ and noise reduction. The secondary production master is usually only in RAM memory of the the computer used to remaster, and is therefore VOLATILE - read expendable, unless there are gigs and gigs of free disk space. Thats what I meant by remastered for CD. The original ANALOG tape is still the standard - unless you count the mastering CD... If you wish to continue this discussion further, please email me privately. W.L.Ellett Email:stdwle@shsu.edu Web Page:http://www.shsu.edu/~stdwle/ ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #613 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #614 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Saturday, 29 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 614 Re: Florian's Role Confused about remastering! Re: Confused about remastering! "Autobahn" mastered from vinyl? Re: Remastering ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:01:52 +0200 Subject: Re: Florian's Role Really-From: lbo >At least you've had a chance to speak to Florian! well, just to make everyone become envious, I also had a drinking with them! It was at the Milan concert of 1990 or 1991, don't remember... anyway was 17th november, my birthday, after the concert I was hanging around with a Veuve Cliquot bottle near the security exits when I spotted them, waiting for a taxi or something, and I offered some glass to them... even asked for autographs on the ticket... memorable... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:20:44 -0400 Subject: Confused about remastering! Really-From: Frank Moriarty There is a large, phone/mail order only music company that I frequently buy CDs from (Noteworthy Music, 1-800-648-7972, very good prices, service, and a alrge catalog). For quite a while the catalog listed the following Kraftwerk releases: Autobahn Best of (The Model) Capitol Years Box Set Computer World Electric Cafe Man Machine (Cleopatra) The Mix Radio-activity (Cleopatra) Trans-Europe Express (Cleopatra) Now, in the most recent catalog, the following appear in addition to the above: Man Machine (remastered) Radio-activity (remastered) Trans-Europe Express (remastered) all three on Capitol as CAP 46039, 46474, and 46473 respectively. Ironically, I just called to order them yesterday - Radio-activity is out of stock but the others are coming. Noteworthy has never carried these titles on Capital before, and it was my understanding that they were only available on CD on Cleopatra in the US. This leads me to believe that Cleopatra's licensing agreement ran out, the release rights reverted back to Capitol, and they have apparantly re-released these 3 recordings. By the way, in a truly odd aspect of this, the Capital CDs are selling for $9.89, listed right next to the Cleopatra versions at $11.99. So I am wondering if the statement that was posted stating that no Kraftwerk releases have ever been remastered is no longer true. Does anyone know what is going on here? Frank ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:36:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Confused about remastering! Really-From: fl12@cornell.edu (fernando) >So I am wondering if the statement that was posted stating that no Kraftwerk >releases have ever been remastered is no longer true. Does anyone know what >is going on here? What could be going on here is semantics. I would agree with the previous post in that the original masters (which are with KingKlang) have not being used for CD directly. However, there could be an improved sound from the new Capitol issues (I have not heard them), in that digitization of a source has improved greatly since the original Capitol issues. So, there will be an even better copy of whatever production masters Capitol has, unless they did some mastering adjustments (EQ). I would guess that this is still short of the sound that could be obtained by remastering form the masters at KlingKlang (unless they have deteriorated greatly). So, true, Capitol may have remastered the CDs, but that does not make them the *best* remastering issue possible. It is also possible that Capitol, while not having the original master, did not use a master previously used for vinyl, hence the work with a master that does not have compressions/EQ meant for an LP. Hopefully, someone can comment on a sound comparison soon. later, fernando ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 28 Jun 96 17:32:44 EDT Subject: "Autobahn" mastered from vinyl? Really-From: Mark Stagg <101706.1667@CompuServe.COM> Since we're discussing the dreaded "R" word, I thought I may as well stir up some controversy by relating my pet theory on the "Autobahn" CD. (BTW: this only applies to the UK and German issues, as I have not heard any others, and can't comment on those): I reckon that "Autobahn" on CD is at least partially mastered from vinyl. When it was first made available in the UK it was described as "digitally remastered" - - which I guess is a fair enough description since it had not been available before in a digital format. If you listen carefully to the opening few seconds (car engine, etc) there is quite definitely what sounds like vinyl static present, which can also be heard quite clearly when the bass/octaves synth riff kicks off, and at several other times during the first half of the track. Either (a) at least this part of the master was originated from vinyl, or (b) the car engine recording was lifted by KW from one of those sound-effects albums common at the time, and there are some pretty nasty frying noises elsewhere in the track. There are a couple of reasons why I think that the former is actually be the case. It's not altogether uncommon for classic recordings to be remastered from vinyl. Sometimes the master tapes are damaged, either completely or in part, or maybe just plain missing. (There seems to be some confusion as to whether KW sold all their rights to the album to Phonogram, but whatever the case this was obviously the only one of their earlier works that they seemed particularly bothered about buying back). There are several mastering programs that aim to de-click audio material taken from vinyl, and it's quite feasible that the album was at least partially reconstructed in this way, which would also account for some of the other vinyl-like distortions present in other parts of the title track and, and to a lesser extent both "Kometenmelodie"s. Anyone got an opinion on this...? Regards, STAGGMAN. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 28 Jun 96 17:32:41 EDT Subject: Re: Remastering Really-From: Mark Stagg <101706.1667@CompuServe.COM> > I meant the master, not the multi track. OBVIOUSLY there would be some > processing going on - probably nothing more than a miniscule of EQ and > noise reduction. The secondary production master is usually only in RAM > memory of the the computer used to remaster, and is therefore VOLATILE - > read expendable, unless there are gigs and gigs of free disk space. Thats > what I meant by remastered for CD. The original ANALOG tape is still the > standard - unless you count the mastering CD I totally take your point that any new CD issue is - by definition - remastered, but I was talking about the commonly accepted meaning of the phrase as it stands today, in both record company speak - and, hopefully, the public's perception of it: that the best quality source is located, and transferred anew using the currently available technology, and usually under the direction of either the artists themselves, the producer, or at very least a sympathetic engineer. This process has come a long way since most of these masters first found their way to KW's various record companies, and the time is surely ripe for improvement. Despite some subscribers voicing the opinion that KW CDs are generally good quality, I have to disagree. There are all sorts of inconsistencies, ranging from distortion (UK/German "Autobahn"), lack of clarity (Cleopatra's "The Man Machine" - generation loss?) to analog tape drop-out (German "Computerwelt"). Most of the CDs prior to "Electric Cafe" also suffer from being rather low in overall level...not to mention the the shoddy reproductions of the artwork. Cleopatra's and EMI UK's recent reissues have both been mistakenly referred to at some time or other as being remastered, and I just don't think it's fair that some people may be buying these CDs again expecting an improved sound. I just wanted to point that out on the list, that's all. If these new Capitol issues have indeed been properly treated, then I for one will definitely be buying them, and I'm sure many others will also. I believe there's also reissues of the same three albums due from Japan. As soon as someone gets hold of any of these releases, please post your impressions on the list! Regards, STAGGMAN. ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #614 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #615 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Sunday, 30 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 615 Re: Die Mench Machine Re: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Electronic / Karl Bartos collaboration Autobahn Original vs. Digital Remastered LP's/CD's Rumours!!! Re: Florian's Role ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 15:51:18 +0100 Subject: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about Re: Die Mench >Machine when you said... > >>A lot of Kraftwerk recordings are of poor quality. This always amused me as >>they've always applied the highest technology available in musical >>instrumentation. > >Yeah, I just think they couldn't fit the good tape decks into the KlingKlang >studio, more than anything else. I think studio technology advanced so rapidly they were unable to afford to keep up with developments. The Mix is a good quality CD. Some of the others such as Man Machine and Computer World are distinctly mediocre. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:00:56 +0100 Subject: Re: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@cs.uwp.edu that >says: 'unsubscribe kraftwerk' and 'unsubscribe kraftwerk-digest' in the >message body. All messages sent to this list are automatically made available >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Really-From: "CHIRIATTI CLAUDIO" > > > >> Tell me more - i am interested in these tid-bits! > >What do you mean with "these tid-bits". >Claudio > > I think the expression is 'tit-bits' ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:04:04 +0100 Subject: Electronic / Karl Bartos collaboration Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) I've heard the new Electronic single 'Forbidden City' on which Karl Bartos plays keyboards. Anyone expecting a song that resembles kraftwerks output will be sorely disappointed. It's basically a guitar driven mainstream rock song. Why Karl Bartos got involved in this is beyond me. Maybe he's running short of cash. Brian ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:32:57 -0500 Subject: Autobahn Original vs. Digital Remastered LP's/CD's Really-From: Fred Becker I have always found that the original US LP release of Autobahn sounded much clearer than the later digitally remastered LP and CD releases. There is some awful distortion on the synth sweeps midway through the Autobahn track on the newer issues. I assumed this was due to deterioration on the master tape used. I haven't done the A/B comparison recently, but when I first got the CD, I played the original LP and remastered CD simultaneously and switched back and forth in real time. The LP was much fuller and clearer. I'd love to have this CD remastered properly. Fred Becker ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:28:24 +0100 Subject: Rumours!!! Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) > >>Further to my last message it now appears that I've been able to >>successfully resubscribe to the mailing list. I am prepared to consider this >>an unfortunate incident which has now resolved itself. > >Oh dear. He's back, and he means to spread loads of rumours. Take cover >lads... he's coming in for the kill... arrrrgggghhhh,...... > >(sound of brendan dying) > >Sorry for the off topic shit dudes. Just trying to busy the list up a bit. > Lazlo Nibble *(strange name???) has made it quite clear that on-line rumours will not be tolerated. Any unsupportable nonsense will result in the person who writes it being expelled from the list. It is not clear what will happen if the nonsense is supportable. Presumably the aforementioned will chair the jury. You have all been warned!!! ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:32:44 +0100 Subject: Re: Florian's Role Really-From: bwgeal@easynet.co.uk (Brian Gaze) >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@cs.uwp.edu that >says: 'unsubscribe kraftwerk' and 'unsubscribe kraftwerk-digest' in the >message body. All messages sent to this list are automatically made available >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Really-From: lbo > > >>At least you've had a chance to speak to Florian! > >well, just to make everyone become envious, I also had a drinking with them! > >It was at the Milan concert of 1990 or 1991, don't remember... anyway was >17th november, my birthday, after the concert I was hanging around with a >Veuve Cliquot bottle near the security exits when I spotted them, waiting >for a taxi or something, and I offered some glass to them... even asked for >autographs on the ticket... memorable... > Is this true or is it nonsense? If it's nonsense then is it supportable? I'm gonna give it the benefit of the doubt, but then I'm not on the jury. Over to Lazlo! If its permissable then I'd like to know what you spoke to FS about. Did he reveal anything interesting. How about new material? Future plans etc! Brian ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #615 ******************************* From: kraftwerk To: kraftwerk-digest Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #616 Reply-To: kraftwerk Errors-To: kraftwerk Precedence: bulk kraftwerk-digest Sunday, 30 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 616 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 96 15:59:00 -0100 Subject: Karl Bartos, now a member of The Mobile Homes! Really-From: per.hedetun@nostromo.ct.se (Per Hedetun) I just read in the Swedish newspaper "Expressen" that Karl Bartos has joined the group "The Mobile Homes" and will be producing their forthcoming album togheter with Marrs Rickenbacker! Apparently, Bartos has already written a few songs for the band and will also be the bands guitarist! "- Bartos called this week and asked if he could join the band", says The Mobile Homes singer Hans Erkendal. "- Of course we don't mind having him in the band, ". He adds; "- We'll be going to Germany in August and record the first single." Well, I am REALLY looking forward to the release of that single! /Per Hedetun InterNet : per.hedetun@nostromo.ct.se FidoNet : 2:200/422.27 - --- timEd/2 1.10+ ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 Aug 93 20:34:55 +0000 Subject: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: Brendan Heading Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about Re: Die Mench Machine when you said... >sound on "Spacelab" sounds incredibly pure - like a flute almost - but the >same effect can be made with the "sync" mode of an oscillator. Yes, actually, that sound is quite popular amongst older synth artists - Jean Michel Jarre has used it, as has Vince Clarke in recent Erasure works. I don't think it is the Odyssey. The Odyssey has a very searing type of sound - for example, the lead line in "Europe Endless", and I think probably most of "The Model". At an approximate guess I would say that this sound is made using a VCS3. - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "I didn't want to make music any longer. I didn't want to be a robot. I didn't want to make concerts, even, I didn't want to be with the boys after all those years" --- Wolfgang Fleur, on leaving Kraftwerk in 1987. ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 Aug 93 20:00:45 +0000 Subject: Re: Confused about remastering! Really-From: Brendan Heading Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about Confused about remastering! when you said... >Man Machine (remastered) >Radio-activity (remastered) >Trans-Europe Express (remastered) >and they have apparantly re-released these 3 recordings. By the way, in a >truly odd aspect of this, the Capital CDs are selling for $9.89, listed >right next to the Cleopatra versions at $11.99. >Does anyone know what is going on here? I think I do. It was listed in the Laserlog (UK musical release catalog) as "change of catalog number". I think at the same time they also reduced the price of these albums - in the UK the older versions sold for 14.99UKP and the newer versions are going for 9.99UKP (Yes, CDs are considerably cheaper in the US!) What's happened is that the company you mention has assumed, that since this is a re-release of an album, then it must be a remaster. Not true, of course. Digital remastering is often a selling point, and it is not written anywhere on the newly released versions. In fact, the new Computerworld says on the back "Because of it's high resolution the CD can reveal the limitations of the Source tape". You wouldn't write this on a remaster. Hope I'm right here :) - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Giving money to governments is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" - -- Anonymous ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:27:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Die Mench Machine Really-From: ManMachn2@aol.com I have heard that an Arp has a "searing" sound too....that's why I was always confused as to what was making the pure flute-like sounds. I knew that KW used a VCS3 but was unaware of any of it's features. Any more observations about the sound? I am interested in ANYTHING having to do with KW equipment and technique........... ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 Aug 93 20:14:39 +0000 Subject: Re: Remastering Really-From: Brendan Heading Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about Remastering when you said... >>A question though - does anyone know if the re-releases of >Trans Europe Express, The Man Machine and Computerworld are remastered at all >? My copy of Computerworld seems to be a very good recording. >In a word, yes. They were remastered for CD. This should not be confused >with RE-MIXING, however. The CD master would be made from the original >analog that we have heard on vinyl and cassette, yet the original tracks, >volumes, effects used, etc. are all exactly the same. (I. e. the 2" >multi-track tape was not used, but the 1/2 " master). Ah, I know about mastering for CD, but that's not what I asked. Of course, any album going on to CD would have to be mastered for CD. My question was - were the newer re-releases of the albums mentioned above (and Radioactivity as well, pardon me!) at all digitally or otherwise cleaned up or remastered ? The new editions had slightly different albums sleeves etc, I was just wondering if they'd used modern digital technology to clean the thing up. - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Musak is the shit you hear in elevators and supermarkets". -- Jean Michel Jarre ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 30 Jun 96 16:29:39 +0000 Subject: Re: Rumours!!! Really-From: Brendan Heading Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about Rumours!!! when you said... >Lazlo Nibble *(strange name???) It's not as silly as his real name, "Ernie Longmire" :-) > has made it quite clear that on-line rumours >will not be tolerated. Any unsupportable nonsense will result in the person >who writes it being expelled from the list. It is not clear what will happen >if the nonsense is supportable. He he, you are in a funny mood this week. Has your Cyberia cafe begun selling alcohol on the premises. >Presumably the aforementioned will chair the jury. You have all been >warned!!! Yes, he does chair the jury to some extent. On the Jarre mailing list things got a bit convoluted and tangled up and we all ended up buggering off to a new mailing list right out of Lazlo's reach, and right out of the States for that matter. The "old Jarre list", as it has now become known, will shortly die a horrible death. - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Giving money to governments is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" - -- Anonymous ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 30 Jun 96 16:31:57 +0000 Subject: Re: Electronic / Karl Bartos collaboration Really-From: Brendan Heading Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about Electronic / Karl Bartos collaboration when you said... >I've heard the new Electronic single 'Forbidden City' on which Karl Bartos >plays keyboards. Anyone expecting a song that resembles kraftwerks output >will be sorely disappointed. It's basically a guitar driven mainstream rock >song. Why Karl Bartos got involved in this is beyond me. Maybe he's running >short of cash. Brian's news seems to be about two week's after everyone else's :-) At least that proves that it's actually true :-) >Brian - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Giving money to governments is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" - -- Anonymous ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 15:03:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Remastering Really-From: "Scott M. Barnhill" >My question was - were the newer re-releases of the albums mentioned above >(and Radioactivity as well, pardon me!) at all digitally or otherwise cleaned >up or remastered ? The new editions had slightly different albums sleeves etc, >I was just wondering if they'd used modern digital technology to clean the >thing up. I remember reading a description of these Capitol re-issues (Radio-Activity, TEE, Man-Machine) that described them as having "remastered artwork". Clearly the front covers are different from those of the Cleopatra issue of these CDs: ========= Radio-Activity Cleopatra version has a greenish tint to the front cover photo. Capitol version is black & white. TEE Cleopatra version uses darker shading (lighting) on front cover & different font and location for words "Trans-Europe Express" Man-Machine Cleopatra version features only the close-up shot of KW's heads facing towards the right, whereas the Capitol issue features the original cover with KW's full-bodies, German title, "inspired by El Lissitzky", geometrical figures on back, etc. ========== I was under the impression that the main selling point of the Capitol re-issues is that they contained the original cover artwork that had been touched up, but I had not heard anything about the recordings themselves being re-mastered, so I assumed that they had not been. I figured it wasn't worth buying the Capitol re-issues just for the artwork if I already had the Cleopatra ones, so I never did. Is the sound quality different on the Capitol discs, and if so, is it a noticeable difference? To this day the Cleopatra discs continue to run several dollars more than the Capitol ones. Robotically Yours, Scott M. Barnhill mbarnhil@email.gc.cuny.edu "Wir sim die roboter..." ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 Aug 93 20:40:30 +0000 Subject: Re: "Autobahn" mastered from vinyl? Really-From: Brendan Heading Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about "Autobahn" mastered from vinyl? when you said... >I reckon that "Autobahn" on CD is at least partially mastered from vinyl. >When it was first made available in the UK it was described as "digitally >remastered" If that term was used, then I think it was probably just used to try and grab attention using the then-fab word "digital". I wouldn't go as far to say that it had been remastered; that is, a new master tape created using newer technology which would benefit the recording. >(car engine, etc) there is quite definitely what sounds like vinyl static >present, which can also be heard quite clearly when the bass/octaves synth >riff kicks off, and at several other times during the first half of the >track. I'll have a listen.... Right, I did notice a few scratching sounds just after the horn sounds. When you hold the headphones close to your ears (be careful!) you can pick up a LOT of tape hiss. Especially the first vocoded "Autobahn". And there are parts that sound crumbly - the high pitched "Autobahn" scream when the tune actually starts, for instance, has some heavy distortion in it, as do some flute parts on louder notes. There are certain bits where some of the distortion I think is due to the recording level on the tape being too high. I've got to the end of the flutey bit, and I haven't picked up any vinyl-like clicking yet. >Either >(a) at least this part of the master was originated from vinyl, or (b) the >car engine recording was lifted by KW from one of those sound-effects albums >common at the time, and there are some pretty nasty frying noises elsewhere >in the track. That's possible. Someone has said, though, that that is in fact a recording of Ralf's old grey Volkswagen (which he did all the tours in) and I think formed a good part of the album's inspiration. >There are a couple of reasons why I think that the former is actually be the >case. It's not altogether uncommon for classic recordings to be remastered >from vinyl. Well, particularly bootlegs :-) > Sometimes the master tapes are damaged, either completely or in >part, or maybe just plain missing. (There seems to be some confusion as to >whether KW sold all their rights to the album to Phonogram, but whatever the >case this was obviously the only one of their earlier works that they seemed >particularly bothered about buying back). Perhaps they intend to digitally remaster all of their recordings some day. I mean, take The Mix - an excellent, noise free recording (except for the DX7 bits - the DX7 is an inherently noisey synth!) > There are several mastering >programs that aim to de-click audio material taken from vinyl, and it's quite >feasible that the album was at least partially reconstructed in this way, I don't know when the Autobahn CD was released - mid '80s ? I'm not sure if such computer technology would have been able to do that. It can never do it perfectly. Bootleg tracks that I've heard de-clicked sometimes have a noticeable but very slight drop-out :( >which would also account for some of the other vinyl-like distortions present >in other parts of the title track and, and to a lesser extent both >"Kometenmelodie"s. I wouldn't say vinyl-like. I think I would say that they were using a particularly crap tape recorder for one thing. I'm listening to Kometenmelodie 2 right now, and there are lots of occasions were the high pitched lead line is going very flakey indeed. I'd say this is due to a tape recorder which has a really crap dynamic range, or a recording level set just a touch too high. But then again, would Kraftwerk really be so unprofessional as not to set up all their levels before recording ? Especially when doing a final album performance of a song. - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "We don't need lessons from Brussels on how to be European. We have know that for centuries". -- Jean Michel Jarre ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 Aug 93 20:40:30 +0000 Subject: Re: "Autobahn" mastered from vinyl? Really-From: Brendan Heading Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about "Autobahn" mastered from vinyl? when you said... >I reckon that "Autobahn" on CD is at least partially mastered from vinyl. >When it was first made available in the UK it was described as "digitally >remastered" If that term was used, then I think it was probably just used to try and grab attention using the then-fab word "digital". I wouldn't go as far to say that it had been remastered; that is, a new master tape created using newer technology which would benefit the recording. >(car engine, etc) there is quite definitely what sounds like vinyl static >present, which can also be heard quite clearly when the bass/octaves synth >riff kicks off, and at several other times during the first half of the >track. I'll have a listen.... Right, I did notice a few scratching sounds just after the horn sounds. When you hold the headphones close to your ears (be careful!) you can pick up a LOT of tape hiss. Especially the first vocoded "Autobahn". And there are parts that sound crumbly - the high pitched "Autobahn" scream when the tune actually starts, for instance, has some heavy distortion in it, as do some flute parts on louder notes. There are certain bits where some of the distortion I think is due to the recording level on the tape being too high. I've got to the end of the flutey bit, and I haven't picked up any vinyl-like clicking yet. >Either >(a) at least this part of the master was originated from vinyl, or (b) the >car engine recording was lifted by KW from one of those sound-effects albums >common at the time, and there are some pretty nasty frying noises elsewhere >in the track. That's possible. Someone has said, though, that that is in fact a recording of Ralf's old grey Volkswagen (which he did all the tours in) and I think formed a good part of the album's inspiration. >There are a couple of reasons why I think that the former is actually be the >case. It's not altogether uncommon for classic recordings to be remastered >from vinyl. Well, particularly bootlegs :-) > Sometimes the master tapes are damaged, either completely or in >part, or maybe just plain missing. (There seems to be some confusion as to >whether KW sold all their rights to the album to Phonogram, but whatever the >case this was obviously the only one of their earlier works that they seemed >particularly bothered about buying back). Perhaps they intend to digitally remaster all of their recordings some day. I mean, take The Mix - an excellent, noise free recording (except for the DX7 bits - the DX7 is an inherently noisey synth!) > There are several mastering >programs that aim to de-click audio material taken from vinyl, and it's quite >feasible that the album was at least partially reconstructed in this way, I don't know when the Autobahn CD was released - mid '80s ? I'm not sure if such computer technology would have been able to do that. It can never do it perfectly. Bootleg tracks that I've heard de-clicked sometimes have a noticeable but very slight drop-out :( >which would also account for some of the other vinyl-like distortions present >in other parts of the title track and, and to a lesser extent both >"Kometenmelodie"s. I wouldn't say vinyl-like. I think I would say that they were using a particularly crap tape recorder for one thing. I'm listening to Kometenmelodie 2 right now, and there are lots of occasions were the high pitched lead line is going very flakey indeed. I'd say this is due to a tape recorder which has a really crap dynamic range, or a recording level set just a touch too high. But then again, would Kraftwerk really be so unprofessional as not to set up all their levels before recording ? Especially when doing a final album performance of a song. - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "We don't need lessons from Brussels on how to be European. We have know that for centuries". -- Jean Michel Jarre ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 16 Aug 93 20:40:30 +0000 Subject: Re: "Autobahn" mastered from vinyl? Really-From: Brendan Heading Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about "Autobahn" mastered from vinyl? when you said... >I reckon that "Autobahn" on CD is at least partially mastered from vinyl. >When it was first made available in the UK it was described as "digitally >remastered" If that term was used, then I think it was probably just used to try and grab attention using the then-fab word "digital". I wouldn't go as far to say that it had been remastered; that is, a new master tape created using newer technology which would benefit the recording. >(car engine, etc) there is quite definitely what sounds like vinyl static >present, which can also be heard quite clearly when the bass/octaves synth >riff kicks off, and at several other times during the first half of the >track. I'll have a listen.... Right, I did notice a few scratching sounds just after the horn sounds. When you hold the headphones close to your ears (be careful!) you can pick up a LOT of tape hiss. Especially the first vocoded "Autobahn". And there are parts that sound crumbly - the high pitched "Autobahn" scream when the tune actually starts, for instance, has some heavy distortion in it, as do some flute parts on louder notes. There are certain bits where some of the distortion I think is due to the recording level on the tape being too high. I've got to the end of the flutey bit, and I haven't picked up any vinyl-like clicking yet. >Either >(a) at least this part of the master was originated from vinyl, or (b) the >car engine recording was lifted by KW from one of those sound-effects albums >common at the time, and there are some pretty nasty frying noises elsewhere >in the track. That's possible. Someone has said, though, that that is in fact a recording of Ralf's old grey Volkswagen (which he did all the tours in) and I think formed a good part of the album's inspiration. >There are a couple of reasons why I think that the former is actually be the >case. It's not altogether uncommon for classic recordings to be remastered >from vinyl. Well, particularly bootlegs :-) > Sometimes the master tapes are damaged, either completely or in >part, or maybe just plain missing. (There seems to be some confusion as to >whether KW sold all their rights to the album to Phonogram, but whatever the >case this was obviously the only one of their earlier works that they seemed >particularly bothered about buying back). Perhaps they intend to digitally remaster all of their recordings some day. I mean, take The Mix - an excellent, noise free recording (except for the DX7 bits - the DX7 is an inherently noisey synth!) > There are several mastering >programs that aim to de-click audio material taken from vinyl, and it's quite >feasible that the album was at least partially reconstructed in this way, I don't know when the Autobahn CD was released - mid '80s ? I'm not sure if such computer technology would have been able to do that. It can never do it perfectly. Bootleg tracks that I've heard de-clicked sometimes have a noticeable but very slight drop-out :( >which would also account for some of the other vinyl-like distortions present >in other parts of the title track and, and to a lesser extent both >"Kometenmelodie"s. I wouldn't say vinyl-like. I think I would say that they were using a particularly crap tape recorder for one thing. I'm listening to Kometenmelodie 2 right now, and there are lots of occasions were the high pitched lead line is going very flakey indeed. I'd say this is due to a tape recorder which has a really crap dynamic range, or a recording level set just a touch too high. But then again, would Kraftwerk really be so unprofessional as not to set up all their levels before recording ? Especially when doing a final album performance of a song. - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "We don't need lessons from Brussels on how to be European. We have know that for centuries". -- Jean Michel Jarre ------------------------------ From: kraftwerk@cs.uwp.edu (kraftwerk mailing list) Date: 30 Jun 96 16:30:39 +0000 Subject: Re: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths Really-From: Brendan Heading Hello kraftwerk mailing list, I believe you were talking about Re: Noise Gates/Noisey Synths when you said... >>> Tell me more - i am interested in these tid-bits! >> >>What do you mean with "these tid-bits". >>Claudio >> >> >I think the expression is 'tit-bits' Ah, but that can be misconstrued :-) - -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |***** Brendan Heading : email brendan@heading.demon.co.uk ******| |***** Amiga A1200 020 545MB HD 2MB RAM ******| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| "Musak is the shit you hear in elevators and supermarkets". -- Jean Michel Jarre ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #616 *******************************